Pretty sure that the salarians leading offer was "wreck the genophage cure, and we'll help you build the crucible!"...
not sure how losing out on that support should discourage me from helping the krogan. the salarians aren't fighters, and it's not like the galaxy is short of people who knows how to hold a hammer and nails.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Nothing much. Other than peace of mind and a smaller benefit with the Salarians. It's more of a choice for roleplaying.. for people who believe what Mordin warns about in ME2.
You're gambling with Wreav especially. Look at them below. Or listen to everything he says himself. If you help him (at least without Eve), you're putting everyone in danger later (if you pick Destroy, that is). The Krogan without the most perfect conditions are a mess. They're like mini T-Rexes, with shotguns, who live for war, don't care to learn traditional colonial methods (like agriculture), don't care for birth control and breed like turtles and rabbits... except they have no natural predator like turtles do (ever watch those documentaries where sea birds swoop down and kill most of the hatchlings. Well, there's nothing like that here).
Depends on whether Wrex or Wreav is in charge.
Sabotaging the cure gives you an additional Salarian fleet worth, IIRC, 150 points.
Whether that is a net gain or loss depends on the Krogan leader. If it is Wreav, then it is a net gain. If it is Wrex then it is a net loss since not only is Wrex removed as a war asset, but clan Urdnot pulls out of the war effort as well.
My own personal reward for sabotaging the cure (I only do this when Wreav is in charge) is to basically say FU to Bioware and their anti-science emotional manipulation.
If you sabotage the genophage with Wrex, not only do you get to kill him, if you choose, but you lose a lot of Krogan war assets and may end up with 0 depending on what missions you did or didn't do, Mordin/Padok is shot in the back giving a number of added war assets from the salarians
If you sabotage the genophage with Wreav, he will not know and if Eve is dead, Shepard can convince Mordin to sabotage the cure and he helps with the crucible project giving the player a few added assets. Padok will just leave and not join the project. Doing it this way will give the most salarian war assets
I just checked my war assets for my current Shepard who sabotaged the cure:
Mordin - +25
Salarian Third Fleet - +150
Krogan Clans - Eve dead - -50
So that nets out to +125, except:
With Wrex in charge, Eve alive, cure not sabotaged:
Krogan mercenaries - +75
Krogan Clans - Eve alive - +50
nets out to +125
So, if Wrex and Eve are alive and you go through with the cure you end up in the same place as if Wreav was in charge, Eve was dead, and Mordin went off to work on the Crucible.
If the cure is sabotaged regardless who is in charge, the player will receive 150 war assets from the salarians.
If its sabotaged with Wreav in charge and eve dead, the player will receive an additional 25 war assets for Mordin, if alive and is able to convince Mordin to sabotage the genophage
175 with Wreav
150 with Wrex
Wrex can survive despite sabotaging the cure... 
Salarians are a techy bunch, who have the 2nd biggest fleet in the galaxy IIRC, which is also the most advanced. For what they lack in brute force, one would expect them to be able to contribute a fair amount to the war effort. Logically anyway, I'm not talking from a gameplay perspective here.
Really though I think not curing the Genophage is more about whether or not the Krogan are any good for the galaxy than it is about Salarian support. If you've got Wreav in charge and no Eve, you're pretty much a moron for curing them. Even with Eve and Wrex the sense in curing the Krogan is debatable.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Wrex can survive despite sabotaging the cure...
No, he can't.
Wait.. the eyeroll is making me think I'm missing something.
If you've got Wreav in charge and no Eve, you're pretty much a moron for curing them. Even with Eve and Wrex the sense in curing the Krogan is debatable.
That would make most players seem like morons then.
Look at this infographic: http://i.kinja-img.c...sg7gatq8jpg.jpg
64% of players didn't even have Wrex. Yet only 8% sabotaged the cure.
That's kind of mental then. I mean, Wreav was blatantly just going to go on a rampage afterwards. And hell, he's even the guy that doesn't find out when you sabotage the cure, sabotaging it is literally the correct option if you've got Wreav. Probably doesn't help that the game pushes you towards curing no matter what, and I's sure at least some people cured just because they didn't have the points to change Mordin's mind and didn't want to off him.
I more meant that in-universe Shepard would be an idiot for curing the Krogan with Wreav frothing at the mouth, but still if you want the truth I get the feeling a good few people just went with the top right option instead of actually roleplaying. Guess I'm not anyone to judge them, but it's what I reckon.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
That's kind of mental then. I mean, Wreav was blatantly just going to go on a rampage afterwards. And hell, he's even the guy that doesn't find out when you sabotage the cure, sabotaging it is literally the correct option if you've got Wreav. Probably doesn't help that the game pushes you towards curing no matter what, and I's sure at least some people cured just because they didn't have the points to change Mordin's mind and didn't want to off him.
I more meant that in-universe Shepard would be an idiot for curing the Krogan with Wreav frothing at the mouth, but still if you want the truth I get the feeling a ton of people just went with the top right option instead of actually roleplaying.
I partly blame Bioware... they laid it on kind of thick. Especially when words like "genocide" get tossed around.
Players have to remind themselves of the things Mordin said in the last game to get the full picture. But some aren't going to remember it.
I agree on that last bit too....
No, he can't.
Wait.. the eyeroll is making me think I'm missing something.
The Wrexican Standoff is triggered by going back to the Normandy through the docks after receiving the Priority: Thessia mission from the asari councilor. This can be avoided altogether courtesy Leviathan DLC, which allows you to go back to the ship directly. xD
The Wrexican Standoff is triggered by going back to the Normandy through the docks after receiving the Priority: Thessia mission from the asari councilor. This can be avoided altogether courtesy Leviathan DLC, which allows you to go back to the ship directly. xD
Does this mean he survives? Or you just don't get that scene? Aren't the war assets still adjusted?
Does this mean he survives? Or you just don't get that scene? Aren't the war assets still adjusted?
If I remember right, the war-assets are lost (pfft!), but Wrex can still be seen at the final battle and again in ensuing epilogue slides.
Not sure how an army of Krogan helps me fight Reapers. I still don't get why BW thinks that's useful.
The Salarians give you a couple of fleets of ships, highly advanced technology, and probably help on the Crucible, none of which the Krogan can provide.
But the Krogan are presented as the better choice for some reason.
Subtle BW writing and nuance at its best!
No, he can't.
Wait.. the eyeroll is making me think I'm missing something.
He can. No Hax needed.
krogan species is dumb with an inborn hate of everything. nothing wrex can do about it.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
He can. No Hax needed.
Yeah, looks like Prof X explained it. It's still cheesing it though. 
Yeah, looks like Prof X explained it. It's still cheesing it though.
Wrex forgives as long he does not see you on the Citadel. What a great way to ditch someone by getting on a sky car parked just not too far from the doors to the Normandy. I believe the whole sabotaging the cure is made irrelevant as long as he's alive.
Pretty sure that the salarians leading offer was "wreck the genophage cure, and we'll help you build the crucible!"...
not sure how losing out on that support should discourage me from helping the krogan. the salarians aren't fighters, and it's not like the galaxy is short of people who knows how to hold a hammer and nails.
Personally I'm struggling to see the value of keeping the krogan. Despite the turian insistence that the krogan are needed, what does it solve? We don't need headbutting melee fighters. Salarians are a bigger deal than just being able to hold a hammer. Their contribution isn't just that they know how to hold a hammer - its that they invent the hammer.
The reapers cannot be defeated with ground troops. Even if every organic in the galaxy were UberKroganSupreme. What good is ground forces when your enemy is an enormous fleet of sentient war ships? They can blow up the planet if they wanted to. All the ground forces do is make the harvest slower - they are not a solution. The krogan are nothing more than a bandaid that buys you a little more time until the inevitable.
The salarains are Mass Effect's geniuses. Their entire species is kinda designed around to fit in this "brilliant scientists" niche. Their technology is generally the most advanced. What do we need more for the war against the reapers? A bunch of ground meat to throw into a literally endless grinder? Or actual space ships and technology? We spend most of the game fighting ground troops that have been reaperized but remember those are not the actual reapers. The reapers are enormous powerful starships. Ground troops will not win this war, we need fleets to counter their fleets. We need tech, not brawn.
Pretty sure that the salarians leading offer was "wreck the genophage cure, and we'll help you build the crucible!"...
not sure how losing out on that support should discourage me from helping the krogan. the salarians aren't fighters, and it's not like the galaxy is short of people who knows how to hold a hammer and nails.
The Salarians are far more useful than the Krogan, they're the brains of the galaxy and have the most advanced fleet and damn well near the largest, only losing out to the Turians. The Krogan are just infantry, they have no fleets and barely any scientists, they're nothing but cannon fodder to throw at the endless horde of Reaper ground forces because they can't do jack **** against the Reapers themselves.
Hell, they're even useless in their role as cannon fodder because the Reapers essentially have an endless supply of ground groups due to indoctrination, so the best they can do is slow down the Reaper ground troop advance for a bit before eventually becoming overwhelmed, which is eventually what occurs near the end of ME3.
Fun Fact:You can do a playthrough with zero, and I mean zero, Krogan support and still get the High EMS endings. Even Bioware knew of their uselessness. 
1)If you're of the more vindictive sort, then wrecking the cure more definitely prevents the Krogan from rising up again. Remember that you can be dealing with Wreav and a dying Eve, not Wrex and a surviving Eve. Some players, or at least even players wanting to RP some Shepards, will want the peace of not knowing that the Krogan can be a threat to all of galactic civilization again.
2)The Krogan are fodder for the war, and they can help achieve cooperation with the Turians, but strategically, that's it. As fodder for the overall war, you can get others. For Palaven's case, it may not even be important for you to save Palaven over your other goals (remember even Garrus can be dead in your story, taking off that level of guilt, ha). For cooperation with the Turians, you can take the chance and lie to the Krogan about the cure, and they'll believe you if they only have Wreav as leader. You can get your cake and eat it too, as long as you lie to the Krogan about them getting some of it.
3)You can prioritize the construction and understanding of the Crucible over having fodder for a war you want to win ASAP anyway. Salarians can be believed to understand the Crucible better. EMS is a catch all term to reflect several things; both the battle success (along with defending the Crucible at Earth) and Crucible capabilities (which will have more outcomes that keep Earth more intact when it sends out its wave) at the same time. Having Salarians gives you a story that has a tone of a more upgraded Crucible. Having Krogan fighting gives you a story that has a tone of a more successful fight. You can have both, as long as you sacrifice a better future for the Krogan, and if you don't give a damn about the Krogan (as in, 'they made their mess long ago, and reject science anyway'), then you can sacrifice their future for the sake of both a better fight (trick them into fighting on Palaven) and a better Crucible (Salarian involvement = more of a story where the Crucible is being tinkered with and upgraded into more capability).
Wrecking the Genophage cure, in terms of appeal to players, will only really work for two main types of people
1)People playing the 3rd game fresh (maybe 2nd), not knowing Wrex, not having a sense of any good qualities of Krogan except that they're really violent and seem be fine with letting the galaxy burn if it means they get a cure for something they could have cooperated with each other in fixing/reacting to anyway. Newbies who might be more on the 'not knowing better' side instead of 'knowing better and deciding on that'.
2)People playing from the 1st game (maybe 2nd), who truly, really, don't like the krogan. Yes, this may be a minority (maybe less than a 1/3) of players, but I'm sure they exist in good enough numbers. They may not have even liked Wrex (heck, they might not have even recruited him!), somehow not responding well to the charming dialogue. They may have considered the Krogan to have had thousands of chances to fix things for themselves, to the point where now with the Reapers here, Shepard doesn't owe them anything. Basically, if there's an option that does great things while ending up bad for the Krogan, these people will still do it and be fine with that. Veterans who might be more on the 'knowing better and deciding on that' side instead of 'not knowing better'.
Yes, it does seem like the narrative has bias towards curing the genophage. I'd even agree with that. But I've seen the content of a Shepard who is dealing with Wreav (the default of ME3) and a dying Eve and a few other differences, and I have to admit that there's just enough nuance to still make it really work, even with the bias of things there.
Players who played ME1+ME2 will have greater understanding of the danger of the Krogan, through Wrex and Grunt can throw them off that.
Players who played ME2 will have greater understanding of the extents the galaxy (specifically Salarians like Mordin) went through to ensure Krogan survival even when they could have wiped them out with their science.
There may be a main thread through the games, and bias that changes from game to game, but there is enough RP chances to do what you want overall.
ME1 - Krogan are dangerous, but maybe helpful, but might have hope for a better future.
ME2 - Krogan are helpful, but still dangerous, but might have hope for a better future.
ME3 - Krogan have hope for a better future, but they may be helpful in another way, and they're still dangerous.
I say this because other than a few hinting lines by Wrex in ME1 and the general badassery of Krogan, ME1 was actually generally more negative than positive about them. ME2 then could be considered in the middle, where they're dangerous and often bad, but also maybe helpful and kinda even cute in their attitudes. Then ME3 went all 'Future of the Krogan' on us.
Its up to you what to prioritize. If you, for example hated the Krogan from the start, do you maintain that? If you loved them from the start, are you willing to betray them/Wrex for a more technical upside on the war's end? If you don't know about them, how will you feel if you see Wreav's plans contrasted with the optimistic dream of a Krogan resurgence?
Guest_StreetMagic_*
1)If you're of the more vindictive sort, then wrecking the cure more definitely prevents the Krogan from rising up again. Remember that you can be dealing with Wreav and a dying Eve, not Wrex and a surviving Eve. Some players, or at least even players wanting to RP some Shepards, will want the peace of not knowing that the Krogan can be a threat to all of galactic civilization again.
2)The Krogan are fodder for the war, and they can help achieve cooperation with the Turians, but strategically, that's it. As fodder, you can get more. For Palaven, it may not even be important for you to save Palaven over your other goals (remember even Garrus can be dead in your story). For cooperation with the Turians, you can take the chance and lie to the Krogan about the cure, and they'll believe you if they only have Wreav as leader.
3)You can prioritize the construction and understanding of the Crucible over having fodder for a war you want to win ASAP anyway. Salarians can be believed to understand the Crucible better. EMS is a catch all term to reflect several things; both the battle success (along with defending the Crucible at Earth) and Crucible capabilities (which will have more outcomes that keep Earth more intact when it sends out its wave) at the same time. Having Salarians gives you a story that has a tone of a more upgraded Crucible. Having Krogan fighting gives you a story that has a tone of a more successful fight. You can have both, as long as you sacrifice a better future for the Krogan, and if you don't give a damn about the Krogan (as in, 'they made their mess long ago, and reject science anyway'), then you can sacrifice their future for the sake of both a better fight (trick them into fighting on Palaven) and a better Crucible (Salarian involvement = more of a story where the Crucible is being tinkered with and upgraded into more capability).
What would anyone be vindictive about, do you think? Humans have nothing to do with this.
It's never crossed my mind at least. I still pity them....even when I see how the cure will not work out under some conditions. I just see the Krogan as a mistake that's been dropped in Shepard's hands. Same with the Geth and Rachni.
These choices kind of remind me a little of Colonialism. And how it's been up to the USA to deal with a lot of it's effects after WW1 and 2... even though they weren't the culprits in most cases. Especially the Middle East.
The Salarians are far more useful than the Krogan, they're the brains of the galaxy and have the most advanced fleet and damn well near the largest, only losing out to the Turians. The Krogan are just infantry, they have no fleets and barely any scientists, they're nothing but cannon fodder to throw at the endless horde of Reaper ground forces because they can't do jack **** against the Reapers themselves.
Hell, they're even useless in their role as cannon fodder because the Reapers essentially have an endless supply of ground groups due to indoctrination, so the best they can do is slow down the Reaper ground troop advance for a bit before eventually becoming overwhelmed, which is eventually what occurs near the end of ME3.
Fun Fact:You can do a playthrough with zero, and I mean zero, Krogan support and still get the High EMS endings. Even Bioware knew of their uselessness.
Krogan, Geth, Quarians, all can be cornerstones of your EMS progression, or nothing (though you do need either Geth or Quarians, and you still make a choice between Krogan and Salarians in a way, even if you always get some Salarians).
Actually... can you avoid Salarian war assets? I'm looking online and it seems like you can?
http://forum.bioware...-the-salarians/
Interesting.
What would anyone be vindictive about, do you think? Humans have nothing to do with this.
It's never crossed my mind at least. I still pity them....even when I see how the cure will not work out under some conditions. I just see the Krogan as a mistake that's been dropped in Shepard's hands. Same with the Geth and Rachni.
These choices kind of remind me a little of Colonialism. And how it's been up to the USA to deal with a lot of it's effects after WW1 and 2... even though they weren't the culprits in most cases. Especially the Middle East.
One can find more affinity with the Council races that were fought to the point of near defeat by the Krogan, Krogan who fought almost purely for the reason of aggressive expansion, and most Krogan see no problem with this and would do it again. This expansion would have went into Human space, absolutely.
Street, I'm with you. I'm only looking from other perspectives, ones I even know exist in my IRL talks with people who've played the games.
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