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Thoughts, wishes and hopes for ME:Andromeda


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#1
DaemionMoadrin

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I am a Mass Effect fan and I played the trilogy so often I lost count. This is why we should try to avoid past mistakes with ME:Andromeda. Complaining after the fact is pointless, right now is the time for feedback. These are my thoughts, wishes and hopes:

 

My most important wish is that ME:A is consistent. I wish for story and gameplay to go together, to not contradict each other. Mass Effect is inconsistent in so many ways, because BioWare made things up as they expanded their universe and by doing so retconned or simply ignored the lore from previous games. One example: ME1 contains a side story about the biotics with L2 implants, who suffer because of them. Kaidan is one of them. But when you check the inventory, then he's using the same implant as every other biotic... and you can easily give him a better one, too. Gameplay contradicts the story. [Edit:] This was my mistake and it has been explained properly ingame.

Similiar issue: Shepard can learn biotic bonus talents even as non biotic without an implant.
There are dozens of examples and some can make you question the entire trilogy. BioWare can do better this time.

 

Realism

 

As entertaining as the games are, they still have their fair share of flaws and issues. ME will never be hard sci-fi, it will always be futuristic fantasy in space. It's too late to change that but we can try to not make it any worse.
So while nothing will change the impossible biology of the established species, the law of physics defying technology or the mindboggling mistakes various species made, we can at least make sure the new planets are scientifically sound. This time there shouldn't be solid mercury in temperate climates (not to mention pure and above ground) nor should we simply plant a flag on top of a ton of pure uranium. Different planets should have differenty gravity, too.

 

Finding resources is one thing, but how do we actually get them? Probing planets in ME2 was awful, because it made no sense. The probe itself couldn't land, mine the ore, process and refine it and then fly back to the Normandy. The probe only located it. How did we get it then? Was there some kind of Cerberus support fleet that followed us around? And how would that have worked when we probed planets in Geth space? Or colonized worlds with millions of settlers? You could probe planets fully claimed by mining companies and no one cared. It would like to see that addressed properly in ME:A.

 

Another issue that always bothered me: Shepard's armor has almost no pockets. How the hell did they manage to carry all that gear in ME1? Or the resources in ME2? This time we shouldn't be able to pick up anything except for small trinkets (that also means no RNG loot). Instead we scan stuff with our omni-tool and either sell the information, use it to replicate objects or use it for our own scientific advancement. Exploring new star systems and planets and creating maps would be just one way to earn money.

 

Speaking of selling stuff... is there even an economy? Do we have money? It is unlikely that our fleet would use actual money and we definitely don't have money any civilisation in Andromeda would accept.

 

Money wouldn't be important at all, we'd trade in resources and information instead. Our fleet needs water, food, fuel and raw materials for repairs... in fact, we wouldn't get very far without that. Think of Battlestar Galactica, only less chaotic and more advanced. We couldn't just jump around all over Andromeda, we will have to secure our fuel sources first.

 

Oh, and of course the technology in Andromeda would not conform to our standards. So we'd better not find any ammo (aka thermal clips) we can use, not without adapting our weapons to the local standard or switching to particle weapons that don't need ammo. Please do not go back to the ME1 weapons or pretend you have found a cooling solution that replaces thermal packs. All those weapons violate physical laws. Especially weapons like the Falcon, Venom, Acolyte, Graal, Typhoon etc. They create matter out of nothing. The explanation provided in the Codex doesn't work. It would have been better to switch to actual ammo in ME2, with the suits providing the energy for the weapon's mass effect fields.

 

Back to planets: Please take care not to have the same species of animals on different planets unless you can think of a valid explanation how they got there. Thresher Maws are nonsense. Even if we accept the premise of a lifeform that consumes anorganic matter and can adapt to a multitude of hostile environments, there is still no explanation how they got everywhere unless the Protheans just transplanted them to uninhabited planets for shits and giggles. All Tresher Maws come from Kalross, on Tuchanka. Let's ignore the fact that Kalross would have to fire her eggs out at escape velocity to get them into orbit, the Milky Way is 100.000 lightyears across and the eggs don't use the relays nor do they come even close to lightspeed. To successfully seed even a dozen planets all over the galaxy Kalross would have to shoot sextillions of eggs into space, something no galactic civilisation could ignore. And the Krogan would have very weird legends about it, too.
So... please do not copy & paste lifeforms again. Thanks!

 

In fact, you should get a scientific advisor for the game. I don't know... get Neil deGrasse Tyson to voice our scientific officer on board of our ship and then trick him into giving you advice. He loves doing that anyway. Btw... our exploration fleet does have scientists on board, right? We aren't just military, I hope.

 

With Frostbite3 it should be possible to create realistic planets and what we saw in the teaser trailer looked great. Please try not to re-use the same buildings all over again. On settled worlds we should see signs of civilisation. Roads for example. Maybe a few ruins or trash. Terraforming. Mining. Please don't just place a base or settlement on the planet and have it surrounded by untouched nature.

 

The maps will probably be rather large, so try to fill them with interesting features. If we travel in the new Mako a lot, then some empty stretches can be forgiven. Otherwise make the maps smaller. You can't go for open world anyway.

 

Gameplay

 

It shouldn't have to be said but after DA:I it is necessary: Do not try to copy another franchise or game. Stick with your own. Only use elements from other games if they make sense for ME:A, if they are necessary. Don't just add features because „Skyrim did it and it sold well“ or anything like that. Just don't. Or do you want to waste resources on two dozen useless mounts again?

 

Don't pad the game with filler content, with MMO style time sinks or artificial barriers like minimum level requirements for areas. Please keep in mind that most players do not want to do tedious chores to earn the right to have fun.

 

The gameplay improved and mature over the course of the trilogy. Mass Effect 3 had really good gameplay, so we should take it and improve it even further without changing too much. The omni-button has to go, different buttons for sprint, evade, cover and use are almost mandatory. No longer will try to revive a fallen soldier instead of evading. No longer will we stick to walls and corners instead of sprinting. Seriously, this is an actual issue, especially in multiplayer.

Give us a proper cover mechanic, that allows us to go prone or squat so we aren't depending on  artificially created battle fields with convienently placed cover. Make cover more rare but give us better evasion mechanics instead (I see we've got jetpacks now).

 

Ammo should be rare as well. Aside from the tech issue mentioned earlier, there was way too much ammo all over the games. You basically never ran out. Making ammo rare would introduce a tactical element into the game and give less powerful weapons a chance as sidearm. Plus, it's just more realistic than finding ammo all over a building site or an alien space ship.

Allow us to use any number of weapons in any slot we want, even several of the same type. I'm not talking about dual wielding Claymores, but carrying two pistols or two SMGs. You'd still only use one at a time though. Each of the five weapon slots on the armor could hold any type of gun. Oh, and maybe we should think about the placement of those slots again because there is no way a Krogan would ever be able to reach the AR or SR slot on top of his hump. :P

 

How the weapons are displayed ingame is another matter that never really worked well. Not only do pistols and SMGs share the same position on the left hip (and overwrite each other) but in many, many cutscenes the wrong weapon was displayed (Avenger, Predator). Please try to use the actually equipped gun in cutscenes. Thank you.

 

Being hurt needs to be less dramatic than the red tinted screen and the muffled audio. Since several such screen effects can be active at the same time (Krogan Rage, Geth Scanner/Hunter Mode, hazard conditions of the map) visibility is almost zero. Close to death is when your senses need to get sharper, not duller.

Someone shooting a weapon or using a power close to you should not result in a screenshake for you.

 

Powers and passive abilities in ME3 work fine for the most part, I don't think those should be simplified (looking at you, DA:I skill trees). If anything, they can be expanded on. Some powers shouldn't go through walls (Snap Freeze) but otherwise what we have works nicely (MP version, SP is still hilarious broken). One needed change would be to seperate Fitness and Melee into seperate trees or adding them to the class passives because the character that needs fitness most is the melee one... only now you can only spec either or, not both.

 

No crafting. At all. I'd even discourage the weapon upgrades because those are nonsense. Instead we need more different weapons and a few more weapon mods. Perhaps allow more mods for each weapon, I don't know. It would make a lot more sense than having 10 different and slightly better versions of the same gun.

 

Armor. I'd love to go back to the N7 armor. In ME3 there was no point in ever using it because the full suits were much, much better. Especially the Cerberus ones.
How about having only one suit that we can fully customize? Upgrade each part with technology we acquire during the game, perhaps unlock additional styles? Only the appearance should be seperate from the effect – some really good parts were ugly as hell.
Oh, and let's not forget that armor always needs a helmet. There is no point in wearing heavy armor with upgraded shields if the head is vulnerable. I would like to see helmets that fold away into the collar of our suit for conversations. Or something similiar.
No visors, no sunglasses... proper closed helmets with air filters and supply. Because we're in space and/or on unknown planets.

 

Please give vehicle combat some thought. In ME1 I never defeat a single enemy in the Mako, I always get out and fight on foot because that gives so much more exp. What's my incentive in ME:A to use the Mako? It should be better than „It is not possible to leave the vehicle at this time“ but not so great that I'll play the entire game from behind the wheel.
If there is different gravity on the planets, then the Mako's behaviour should reflect that. Or at least make it less bouncy than in ME1. ^^

 

Also important gameplay issue: A protagonist who can dance. Seriously. It's a miracle that Shepard got anyone into bed with that performance on the dance floor. :P

 

Companions and romances

 

I would love it if we weren't limited to two companions and could take our entire squad with us. It would open up so many options. It's probably not going to happen though but perhaps we could assign tasks to the companions we do not take with us on the mission. Garrus was always calibrating something, imagine if that would have made a difference. Maybe leaving the marksman behind on the ship means it takes less damage during evac because he was manning a turret. Leaving the engineer behind might mean less resources needed for repairs. There are lots of possibilities.
At the same time it should be possible to go solo, too.

 

Please give us new companions, crew and contacts. I don't think we should see old faces again, a clear cut is necessary for a fresh start in a new galaxy. That means no grandkids of people from the original trilogy as companions. As funny as it would be to have another Varkarian on board, people would constantly compare him to Garrus and he could never live up to his ancestor. Even if you make her a total badass female. Same for Kolyat Krios, Wrex's kids or whatever else is possible without invalidating the different endings.

 

I'd love to see more friendships or rivalries. You can be close to someone without making out. You can work together with someone who wants to outdo you.
The companions should hang out together, wander around the ship, have lives of their own. ME3 already did that for the most part. I really enjoyed Tali and Garrus hooking up if you don't pursue either. We need more of that... not just in the romantic sense but people becoming close friends, too.

 

Speaking of romances, I would like them to be optional but still important. If you don't care about them, then you shouldn't miss out on experience or items. Romances should give the player more options (and fuzzy feels, of course). For example... if you romanced Bastila in KotOR, then the game offered you an additional way to resolve her encounter in the endgame.
What I am saying is that a romance should matter. NPCs and companions need to react to it, the game should reflect the changed status. I don't want a situation where outside of three conversations and two cutscenes everything stayed the same. Well, depends on if the writers can fit that into the story.

 

Before we get to the story part... the dialogue wheel could be improved, too. Top right for Paragon and bottom right for Renegade is too simplistic. Give us more choices, choices that actually matter and are different from each other. None of that „say No in three different ways“ crap DA:I pulled. We play on big screens now, use that space to show us more of our possible answer.
Maybe go back to the DA2 mechanic with the three different personalities. Sarcastic/funny Hawke was so awesome, imagine the first contact with a new species in ME:A like that. ;)

 

The Story

 

Please, please, please create a logical story. Think it through from all perspectives. Please try to make the villain(s) intelligent without dumbing down our protagonist. The minimum would be to keep the Evil Overlord list in mind when writing the villain(s). Please, I beg you. If I have to go up against yet another hyper intelligent being that makes hilariously stupid mistakes... well... I won't be happy.

 

Make the story big, give us long main missions and don't lock them behind minimum requirements. Side missions should tie into the main ones in some way, they should make the main mission easier or ensure the loyality of your companions or your new allies. Perhaps tie them to exploration or resources.

 

Please only add a moderate amount of fetch quests and make the collections fun and easy. ME had the fish and ship models plus a few unique items like the N7 helmet, the husk head, the Prothean sphere and, of course, the space hamster. That was exactly the right amount and difficulty. Keep it that way please. Do not go back to ME1 or DA:I where you had to go through the entire game with a fine comb to find everything.

 

I already mentioned it but it bears repeating: Please do not pad the game with filler content or time sinks. A game with 50 hours of 100% enjoyable and interesting content is much better than 100 hours of 50% fun. Although 100+ hours that are all awesome would be best. ^^

 

BioWare's strength had always been story telling. Not that the stories were completely unique (or even all that good) themselves but the way they got told made the games so good. Clever use of tropes (and/or averting them) is something I hope we get to see in ME:A. We don't necessarily need a twist in the third act but I find the best stories are those I can't predict from the beginning.

 

Please keep some humour in the serious story, ME2 is a great example for that. Dazzle us with awesome and funny dialogue again, make us love or hate the characters. This is your strong point, please do not let us down.

 

The pacing of the story needs to take gameplay into account. I never liked it when a game told me that something is extremely urgent and then let me dick around forever before I felt ready to start with the main story. Skyrim is one offender but ME1 isn't any better. Right after you become a Spectre you get three missions: Find Liara, Geth sightings on Noveria and Feros is being attacked by Geth. Not only do you get Noveria and Feros too soon considering your current level/abilities, but they are fullblown crises. A hostile synthetic species has been sighted on a colony world... or so you are told... and no one cares. Another colony is under attack... and only you bother to show up and help. That just makes no sense and if the missions would have been acquired under different circumstances, then it would have been better for the pacing. For example... investigating Saren would show that he has substantial investments in Binary Helix, so that would be the reason to go to Noveria. That would make more sense and feel less urgent. Looking into the finances of a fugitive is a less pressing issue than looking for a missing unit of marines or a captured freighter. Know what I mean? :)

 

Please be careful with AIs and synthetic lifeforms. We already got through that storyline in the trilogy, there is no reason to do it again in ME:A.
Similiar issue would be uplifting a local species to use as allies against the enemy. Although it would be interesting to hear the reactions of the Salarian, Turian and Krogan crew members to it, that's a can of worms we already opened.
I'm not saying don't do it or don't mention it... but it shouldn't be the main focus again.

 

Perhaps it's time to step away from the clear cut Paragon/Renegade decisions and allow things to become a little more murky, allow morality to be a little more grey.  Sometimes there are no good choices, only less evil ones. If you are between a rock and a hard place, if you are fighting for survival, then you don't have the luxury of keeping to your honor, to your moral high ground. A exploration fleet far from home confronted with new enemies would fit in such a scenario.
Maybe you encounter two species who are at war and you need to pick a side. Do you choose the honorable but less advanced natives who are all natural biotics or do you choose the slavers who have a space fleet they use to raid the natives constantly? One choice will be morally good but cost you much, perhaps too much. The other choice will be morally evil but give you an ally you don't need to uplift... if you can ignore them holding slaves.

 

I think it would make the game more interesting if the consequences would only be visible later on. If you don't know what's going to happen, if you have to trust your intuition. Well, at least until someone posts a walkthrough. ;)

 

Minor point: I know that BioWare is a company from the US and Canada, so a certain amount of patriotism and soldier worship is understandable. But please take into account that this game will be sold worldwide and not every culture is as enthusiastic about war and military conflict. ME3 was over the top with their speeches and honestly, it felt weird. Just my opinion though.

 

Tech and other stuff

 

Please make a proper port for every platform. That means the PC version needs to be able to do everything the console versions can do right from the start (DA:I PC: couldn't walk, only sprint).
A mouse isn't a controller and that needs to be reflected in the menus of the game. An inventory that only shows 4 items at a time is a disgrace to PC games. I'm not asking for Excel here, but if the DA:I menus had been developed for PC, then they would have looked very different.

 

I know EA wants to promote AMD's Mantle and that's okay. It even makes sense since the Xbox One and the PS4 contain AMD CPUs and GPUs. But please, please remember that at least 50% of the PC gamers are using Nvidia, which means DirectX.
Even better, DirectX 12 allows software to use every piece of hardware that is available. Which means it uses all CPUs, RAM, GPUs and VRAM in the computer no matter if it's Intel, AMD or Nvidia. That means a performance increase for virtually every machine. I wouldn't be surprised if the consoles got it as an update, too.

 

So let's hope we won't see the DA:I bugs and crashes again. Now that BioWare has more experience with the Frostbite3 engine I expect better from them.

 

I think it goes without saying that ME:A shouldn't be developed for the 360 or PS3. I doubt they ever considered it, but sometimes I like to make sure.

 

There should not be any savegame limitations for PC. If possible, then modding should be supported.

 

I hope for proper QA this time around. Yes, large projects will always have bugs and we understand that. What I don't understand are game design decisions that are blantantly, obviously stupid. Sorry BioWare. But DAMP was far from being a masterpiece. Why did no one realize that adding stats to every MP character each time you promoted one would imbalance the game? You should at least have implemented a limit.

 

ME3 multiplayer is still busy three years later. Not bad for a side project. I fully expect to see MP in ME:A, too. Just don't change too much and don't make the mistakes from DAMP all over again. Less RNG would be welcome, too. Allow us to buy the gear we want instead of giving us stuff we don't need.

 

Final thoughts

 

This is BioWare's chance to blow everyone else out of the water. They have an excellent game engine that was made for this type of game, they have an entire new galaxy to play with and half the lore is canon already. They don't have to start from scratch is what I am saying.
Unless they make a cash grab with cut content as DLC, MP shenanigans or overpriced but ultimatively worthless collectors editions, unless they rush the release date, unless they dumb the game down or unless they make another terrible port this game will be good.
BioWare always had the potential for great games and if they need to work on it half a year longer to make it even better, then they should do so.

 

TL;DR

 

Go back to the top and read it, ya lazy bum. :P


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#2
TheChosenOne

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https://m.youtube.co...h?v=IRsPheErBj8

Jk. think the number one I could really asked for is to know what happened to Shepard's crew. I want to know what to my bae, Tali ♥

#3
BabyPuncher

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Jesus.

 

First of all, could you give me a few examples of what you would consider 'hard' science fiction?

 

Second of all, gameplay and story segragation is a reality of all video games. You should learn to accept it.


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#4
N7Jamaican

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It's only been 5 days since the trailer.. And for some reason I feel like I've seen this topic a million times..

 

I wish for a stronger and better story, a fun and competitive multiplayer, deeper character/armor/companion customization, more customization of our ship. Interactive crew (not just pressing "A" and they give you a line, but how about they can be found in different parts of the ship, similar to ME2 [to an extent] and ME3 [to another extent].  Meaningful sidemissions.  I don't want side missions feeling like it's there to extend the length of the game, how about to add depth and richness to the story..  


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#5
KaiserShep

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Regarding cut scene weapons, I would love if it stayed consistent this time around. ME2 and 3 had this weird thing where sometimes you'd have the proper weapon you equipped being used in cut scenes (with weapon fire and everything), then in others you'd get the default Predator or Avenger. I'm still not sure why that is, but hopefully it's something that can be ironed out. 


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#6
BabyPuncher

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Regarding cut scene weapons, I would love if it stayed consistent this time around. ME2 and 3 had this weird thing where sometimes you'd have the proper weapon you equipped being used in cut scenes (with weapon fire and everything), then in others you'd get the default Predator or Avenger. I'm still not sure why that is, but hopefully it's something that can be ironed out. 

 

Seriously doubtful. Those 'weapon firing' cutscenes quite often contained mistakes. This is a rather complicated problem that really no video game has tackled. Best case scenario I can envision is basically weapons in cutscenes being restricted to pistols.



#7
Valkyrja

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Jesus.

 

First of all, could you give me a few examples of what you would consider 'hard' science fiction?

 

Second of all, gameplay and story segragation is a reality of all video games. You should learn to accept it.

 

Revelation Space.

 

Mass Effect owes much to it.



#8
KaiserShep

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Seriously doubtful. Those 'weapon firing' cutscenes quite often contained mistakes. This is a rather complicated problem that really no video game has tackled. Best case scenario I can envision is basically weapons in cutscenes being restricted to pistols.

 

 

In ME2, at the point where the biotic specialist, Shepard and the other two squadmates make it to the end of the long walk, the Mattock I equipped her with fired exactly as it would in gameplay. Just the same, I'd say that discrepancies in the way a weapon fires would be preferable to the entire weapon being switched, because the character is usually sporting two of the same weapon type in such instances. 



#9
BabyPuncher

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In ME2, at the point where the biotic specialist, Shepard and the other two squadmates make it to the end of the long walk, the Mattock I equipped her with fired exactly as it would in gameplay.

 

Well gee, if one weapon worked properly in a single cutscene, I guess that means that this formidable problem isn't actually a problem at all, then.

 

I said 'quite often.' Not 'always.'



#10
KaiserShep

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You'd be a shoe-in to beat John Edwards at the next BDITU Awards. 



#11
BabyPuncher

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Well that's not very friendly.



#12
DaemionMoadrin

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Jesus.

 

First of all, could you give me a few examples of what you would consider 'hard' science fiction?

 

Second of all, gameplay and story segragation is a reality of all video games. You should learn to accept it.

 

1. Most novels by Isaac Asimov or Arthur C. Clarke. Some Robert Heinlein novels. Frank Herbert's Dune (at least the first three novels), Ender's Game, William Gibson's cyberpunk novels. Larry Niven's Ring World, if you can overlook the boring characters. Philip K. Dick/Blade Runner.

These stories have one or two futuristic technologies that are theoretical possible or are least consistent with their respective universe, everything else is just an adaption of current technology/science. Often the stories are about the development of the human race when confronted with the unknown, how society would change and it usually keeps it realistic.

Mass Effect is space magic. Literally. Biotics, omni tools, FTL etc. There is way too much new technology and none of it can be explained with scientific principles. Explaining that biotics are the manipulation of dark energy with electricity to directly affect the mass of an object (but not the gravity) is no different from saying that a wizard absorbs mana from the environment, stores it in his aura and then transforms and expels it as fire spells. It's pure fantasy. Also, even if you reduced the mass of an object to a fraction, how exactly does this help you to go beyond lightspeed? How do the relays allow instantaneous travel? No one knows, there aren't even theories.

Mass Effect has a lot in common with Star Wars, which is fantasy, too. Trying to retcon that into sci-fi (midichlorians) is usually going to fail, so I'm not expecting it here. But we don't need to add even more Deus Ex Machina, Phlebotinum or Handwavium because at some point it would fall apart. "Magic" is not the answer you want to hear when you ask how something works.

 

2. Eh. No. Why would I do that? My example with the biotic implants? BioWare fixed that with ME2 and ME3.

Seriously, we should never simply accept mediocrity, especially not when we know that there is potential for more. I'm not asking for utter perfection, I just want to see some effort. Any fantasy story/universe will fall apart when you try to analyze it. It's impossible to create one that can withstand scrutiny, because they aren't real and thus are always missing something. What is possible is to create something that isn't totally obvious about it.

 

There is a balance between smooth/interesting gameplay and the complexity of the story. But if I have to ask myself constantly "How would that work?" because the game doesn't manage to explain it properly, if I'm being told "because" and if the things I see in the game contradict how I am told things are supposed to be, then it ruins the immersion and my suspension of disbelief. Like how in DA:I everyone was talking about the starving, sick refugees suffering the cold weather and then you arrive at the crossroads and you see well-fed, healthy people in bright, clean clothes walking around on green meadows in the sunshine, making idle small talk... and you ask yourself if you are in the correct refugee camp.


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#13
BabyPuncher

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1. You're deluded if you think there is any science fiction, period, which fully explains it's technology, expert perhaps when the technology is a matter of scale, not fundamentals. The simple fact is that if an author could fully explain such technology in complience with current scientific knowledge, he would be sprinting to a patent office to become the next Bill Gates, not writing fiction.

 

2. You'd do that because it's the reality of good storytelling, good writing, and good game design. The simple and shallow answer is that games are first and foremost designed to be fun. Fun, and playable by not only the average, but the considerably below average player who has no little to no knowledge of firearms, computer 'hacking,' archery, or whatever other topic the story is currently covering.

 

Obviously, there are instances where such segregation is a problem. But very often, it's the best solution and apeing 'realism' would be the mediocre mistake.



#14
DaemionMoadrin

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1. You're deluded if you think there is any science fiction, period, which fully explains it's technology, expert perhaps when the technology is a matter of scale, not fundamentals. The simple fact is that if an author could fully explain such technology in complience with current scientific knowledge, he would be sprinting to a patent office to become the next Bill Gates, not writing fiction.

 

2. You'd do that because it's the reality of good storytelling, good writing, and good game design. The simple and shallow answer is that games are first and foremost designed to be fun. Fun, and playable by not only the average, but the considerably below average player who has no little to no knowledge of firearms, computer 'hacking,' archery, or whatever other topic the story is currently covering.

 

Obviously, there are instances where such segregation is a problem. But very often, it's the best solution and apeing 'realism' would be the mediocre mistake.

 

You didn't read my post and if you did, then you didn't understand it. Please try again.



#15
BabyPuncher

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No, I think I understood it perfectly. Why don't you give me an example of some technology in these works that doesn't exist today, yet is both 'fully explained' and fully in complience with current scientific knowledge? Or at least scientific knowledge at the time of puplication?



#16
DaemionMoadrin

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No, I think I understood it perfectly. Why don't you give me an example of some technology in these works that doesn't exist today, yet is both 'fully explained' and fully in complience with current scientific knowledge? Or at least scientific knowledge at the time of puplication?

 

 

These stories have one or two futuristic technologies that are theoretical possible or are least consistent with their respective universe, everything else is just an adaption of current technology/science. Often the stories are about the development of the human race when confronted with the unknown, how society would change and it usually keeps it realistic.

 

Compare the bolded parts please.

 

Sci-fi has a premise, there is usually this one thing that changes everything. For example in William Gibson's Neuromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive it is cybertech. Everything described in the novels is scientifically possible. Humans with artificial limbs, eyes and organs? We have those already. Maybe not military standard yet but that's just a matter of time and money. Hooking your brain up to the internet and hacking systems, well that's still sci-fi... but we already have input systems that can read brain waves and allow a user to control a moving object on the screen. Give it a few decades and we'll have the technology to interface our brain with computers commercially available.

 

If you want another example, how about Jules Verne? At the time he wrote Twenty Thousand Leagues Under The Sea it was proper sci-fi. The novel contains nothing more outrageous than a nuclear submarine. He wrote that in ~1870, when the only submarines were prototypes, basically wooden barrels with a snorkel and mechanical propulsion, when nuclear fission was an exotic theory.

 

For additional reading I recommend this: http://tvtropes.org/...FictionHardness


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#17
Lady Artifice

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To chime in to this debate: The concept of science fiction "hardness" is pretty established as an way to analyze the genre. It doesn't have to be all one or the other, just a relative measurement. Some science fiction movies and books of genre just strive for more realistic aspects than other. 

 

As for me, I'm okay with Mass Effect not being particularly hard or realistic. Space magic has been a big factor in a lot of the lore. Like OP says, I think it will probably stay that way. In the same breath: I agree that they should try not to fly too much in the face of gravity or physics. I offer my resounding agreement when it comes to never tracking down things like uranium on the planet surface and "discovering" it by pressing buttons until we can stab it with a flag. I'm not really worried about them going back to that, though. I think they're well past that kind of thing. I hope. 

 

I'm not so sure about making the loot system more true to life. I'm usually okay with suspending my disbelief on that front. It's been a factor in most rpgs I've played and it's never bothered me. 

 

For additional reading I recommend this: http://tvtropes.org/...FictionHardness

 

As I was scrolling down I was preparing to go get this link and make the same point, and then I see you've got it taken care of.  :)


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#18
L. Han

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Generally I think sci-fi stuff are allowed to break a few rules before the suspension of disbelief begins to shatter. The Mass Effect series has reached this point a few times for artistic reasons (I guess). For example: characters are not properly suited in space (Liara, Miranda, and Jack walks around in space with nothing more than a tiny face mask and normal clothes) Exposing your skin and eyes in vacuum is probably something their mothers told was a bad idea.


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#19
BabyPuncher

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Compare the bolded parts please.

 

Sci-fi has a premise, there is usually this one thing that changes everything. For example in William Gibson's Neuromancer/Count Zero/Mona Lisa Overdrive it is cybertech. Everything described in the novels is scientifically possible. Humans with artificial limbs, eyes and organs? We have those already. Maybe not military standard yet but that's just a matter of time and money. Hooking your brain up to the internet and hacking systems, well that's still sci-fi... but we already have input systems that can read brain waves and allow a user to control a moving object on the screen. Give it a few decades and we'll have the technology to interface our brain with computers commercially available.

 

Yes. That's exactly the point. We have those already. And even if we didn't, we know they're possible because they exist organically, they just aren't man made. Did I not explicitly note that such technology was excluded from an example I wanted?

 

And if we stick to such technology, it would place a rather ridiculous on limit the possibilities of science fiction, wouldn't it now? That wouldn't be very smart.

 

So if we're looking at technology such as, say, FTL travel, does this just mean you're deriding every science fiction story that features it as 'space magic' regardless of how internally consistent the story is?



#20
DaemionMoadrin

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Yes. That's exactly the point. We have those already. And even if we didn't, we know they're possible because they exist organically, they just aren't man made. Did I not explicitly note that such technology was excluded from an example I wanted?

 

And if we stick to such technology, it would place a rather ridiculous on limit the possibilities of science fiction, wouldn't it now? That wouldn't be very smart.

 

So if we're looking at technology such as, say, FTL travel, does this just mean you're deriding every science fiction story that features it as 'space magic' regardless of how internally consistent the story is?

 

Look, we can either have a discussion or an argument. If it's the latter then I won't answer your posts anymore.

The Jules Verne example fits your request perfectly, so why did you cut it out of the quote?

The link in my post answer all your questions in detail, have you at least looked at it? Because I don't feel like copy-pasting.

 

FTL travel is a staple in sci-fi. As I said, usually it's just one or two technologies in the premise and everything else just follows. FTL would be such a technology and if the story is internally consistent, as in following the rules it established, then I would consider it hard sci-fi.

 

I enjoy Mass Effect a lot, but for me it's more fantasy than sci-fi.

 

Examples:

Star Wars is the prime example for space magic. The Force is pure magic, at least in the original trilogy and lightsabers are magic swords. There is no scientific way a lightsaber could ever work, not unless you make up more space magic like self contained energy matrix or whatever.

 

The first Alien movie was hard sci-fi. Cryogenics, androids and aliens were the sci-fi elements, everything else was current technology extrapolated. And even those three were scientifically sound, if you ignore the whole blood=acid thing and possibly the explosive decompression.



#21
KaiserShep

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I'm not sure if it would be worth it to try to account for different gravitational levels in certain environments. In Mass Effect 3, this was worked around by simply having Shepard walk slowly with gravity boots when walking down the docking tube of the dreadnought. 



#22
mickey111

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gay krogans. 



#23
DaemionMoadrin

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I'm not sure if it would be worth it to try to account for different gravitational levels in certain environments. In Mass Effect 3, this was worked around by simply having Shepard walk slowly with gravity boots when walking down the docking tube of the dreadnought. 

 

True, although that was standard gravity vs. zero gravity.

 

I'd be happy if they found some middle ground with the new Mako. I recently played ME1 again and the planet maps are tedious. The old Mako can't even drive straight over flat terrain without bouncing wildly. Of course, that's more vehicle physics than gravity... but a vehicle that bounces like that on Luna should drive differently on a planet with 1.5g.

 

Or at least drive properly and have a note in the codex how they compensate for changes in gravity with mass effect fields.


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#24
KaiserShep

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Man, mass effect fields make for a good explanation for everything. 

 

Walk regularly on a planet with .3 earth G's? Mass effect fields in my boots.

 

No longer need rotating space stations for artificial gravity. Mass effect fields, son.

 

Quarians don't need bulky waste disposal systems on their suits. Mass effect fields break it all down, fool! 


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#25
DaemionMoadrin

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Man, mass effect fields make for a good explanation for everything. 

 

Walk regularly on a planet with .3 earth G's? Mass effect fields in my boots.

 

No longer need rotating space stations for artificial gravity. Mass effect fields, son.

 

Quarians don't need bulky waste disposal systems on their suits. Mass effect fields break it all down, fool! 

 

Hehe. And yet... the Citadel rotates to generate gravity.