306 réponses à ce sujet

[segurissima]

For me it is as easy as this. I love the witcher games. I love the dragon age games, for different reasons. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. i will play them as long as they will make them.

[Ariella]

For me it is as easy as this. I love the witcher games. I love the dragon age games, for different reasons. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. i will play them as long as they will make them.

Thank you! A voice of sanity.

[Giantdeathrobot]

For me it is as easy as this. I love the witcher games. I love the dragon age games, for different reasons. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. i will play them as long as they will make them.

 

Words of wisdom, to be sure. This endless tirade of trying to ''prove'' which game ''true gamers'' like better is as pointless as it is tiresome. Let people play what they like and leave it at that.

[correctamundo]

Words of wisdom, to be sure. This endless tirade of trying to ''prove'' which game ''true gamers'' like better is as pointless as it is tiresome. Let people play what they like and leave it at that.

 

But does that make those of us that enjoy both TW3 and DAI hardual or casscore players?

[Majestic Jazz]

For me it is as easy as this. I love the witcher games. I love the dragon age games, for different reasons. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. i will play them as long as they will make them.

 

And that is how it should be! I love both the Witcher and Dragon Age brands but at the end of the day that does not mean that I cannot compare and contrast similar products and talk about how the success or failure of one particular brand can be used to make the genre as a whole better.

 

When Fallout 4 comes out later this year I will be looking to the many things that FO4 does great that perhaps Cyberpunk 2077 and Dragon Age 4 can take not of such as indepth customization.

 

The reason why it seems like I am favoring TW3 more is because the style of story/atmosphere that CD Projekt used with TW3 is the style I prefer in videogames (not just RPGs) and considering the high review scores (professional and user review scores) as well as the 6 million units sold in 6 weeks, this will send a message to the industry suits and ties that games such as TW3 DOES indeed have a strong financial pool for success. This means that future games of many other genres, not just RPGs could have similar styles to TW3 without the fear of it not selling or being too controversial by hurting the feelings of a particular demographic group. This is why I like TW3, because it succeeded where some publishers would probably have written off TW3 because of many issues such as how they portray women in a time where such issues is a very sensitive topic in the gaming industry and how many publishers/developers want to play it safe and not offend anyone and so on but again......6 million in 6 weeks is hard to ignore.

[Ariella]

But does that make those of us that enjoy both TW3 and DAI hardual or casscore players?

Lol. It means you have varied tastes.

[Majestic Jazz]

I would also add that there were a lot of gamers who hoped that TW3 would be a financial failure or even a critical failure because they did not like some of the themes of TW3 such as how women were portrayed and it's hyper masculine approach to the story and antagonist and as a result, they wanted TW3 to fall flat on it's back to send a signal to the industry that games like this are a "thing of the past" and that you cannot have a critical and financially successful game all while having the content that TW3 had. It is good to see that developers still can express their artistic vision and still be successful without the fear of failure. This is also why I am proud of the success of TW3.

 

 

I do also understand that there are those who dislike TW3 on the bases of how it portrays women and the hyper-masculinty and you are right to not like TW3 cause of that, but again.....6 million in 6 weeks shows that there still remains a large and profitable demographic of gamers who would love to continue playing such games and I doubt publishers will ignore them.

[Al Foley]

You know the more I realize it the more I think the primary difference between the two games, and series, is that Inquisition does a better job at having 'top down' stories.  Stories that make you feel like you are a part of larger events, is 'epic', is a part of history.  Very character driven, yes, but takes a higher longer view of history and events.  

 

Witcher 3 has a better bottom up approach.  Focusing on very much the characters.  And the nitty gritty of life.  Geralt gets caught up in the small events of day to day people.  His life, and what we experience, is his job, his vocation, and not a part of a larger plan.  The feeling of epicness is lost.  

 

Neither approach is 'better' both are perfectly valid forms of story telling, but for me personally...IDK for all of Witcher's amazingness it does seem like we aren't *doing* anything. 

[Majestic Jazz]

Neither approach is 'better' both are perfectly valid forms of story telling, but for me personally...IDK for all of Witcher's amazingness it does seem like we aren't *doing* anything.

And thats ok cause that is how CD Projekt intended for us to see.

[Al Foley]

And thats ok cause that is how CD Projekt intended for us to see.

One of the best and most apt marketing phrases in the history of marketing. 

[Ariella]

And the whole professional thing is why you can't compare the two as DAI is built on a classic hero's journey.

[Majestic Jazz]

And the whole professional thing is why you can't compare the two as DAI is built on a classic hero's journey.

 

DAI and TW3 do have many things that are different. 

 

#1 DAI is a party/team driven adventure where you  (the Hero) has a group of followers who fight with you along the way. TW3 on the other hand is just you and nobody else.

 

#2 DAI allows for you to customize your hero while TW3 you play as one look and one gender.

 

HOWEVER,

 

That does not mean that you cannot compare the two in areas in which they both explore, such as cutscenes, sidequest, open world content/immersion etc. 

 

So can you compare the two games in some areas whereas in other areas you really cannot.  Just like when Fallout 4 comes out, it is different than TW3 and DAI in many ways, but you can still compare it in other areas such as character creation (DAI vs FO4), item/armor customization (DAI vs TW3 vs FO4) and open world immersion/content (DAI vs TW3 vs FO4). However, you would not compare the combat of Fallout 4 to that of TW3 or DAI because FO4 uses modern weapons like laser rifles while TW3 and DAI just uses swords, shields, and bows and Fallout 4 has the option to play first person which changes up the gameplay style from a combat perspective.

 

So no, DAI is not immune to comparision with Witcher 3 just cause TW3 doesn't focus on the "Hero's journey" like Dragon Age games. 

[segurissima]

And that is how it should be! I love both the Witcher and Dragon Age brands but at the end of the day that does not mean that I cannot compare and contrast similar products and talk about how the success or failure of one particular brand can be used to make the genre as a whole better.

 

When Fallout 4 comes out later this year I will be looking to the many things that FO4 does great that perhaps Cyberpunk 2077 and Dragon Age 4 can take not of such as indepth customization.

 

The reason why it seems like I am favoring TW3 more is because the style of story/atmosphere that CD Projekt used with TW3 is the style I prefer in videogames (not just RPGs) and considering the high review scores (professional and user review scores) as well as the 6 million units sold in 6 weeks, this will send a message to the industry suits and ties that games such as TW3 DOES indeed have a strong financial pool for success. This means that future games of many other genres, not just RPGs could have similar styles to TW3 without the fear of it not selling or being too controversial by hurting the feelings of a particular demographic group. This is why I like TW3, because it succeeded where some publishers would probably have written off TW3 because of many issues such as how they portray women in a time where such issues is a very sensitive topic in the gaming industry and how many publishers/developers want to play it safe and not offend anyone and so on but again......6 million in 6 weeks is hard to ignore.

 

I do understand your points, and I see what your message is trying to be, and I do agree with most of your points. What I want to convey is that change cannot be forced on the unwilling:)

 

Bioware's approach to these kind of social issues was always very open but cautious at the same time. Imo CDPR is a pioneer on how their stories are told, in a dark medieval society setting with all that comes with it, without fear of controversy. It is great how bravely they interpreted the books world since the first game. Sales numbers also can mean a lot of things. Well, first of all, its a masterpiece indeed. That there was no backlash about how they wrote about womens role in the game, does not mean there wouldn"t be one if the game is not made in a preset book-world. I am a female myself and a vey pragmatic one, so I am not bothered at all, it is fiction so...but I bet lot of of the people who bought the game are young males jumping for first time in the series after hearing it is a mature game. ( No offence intended, ofcourse)

 

Also Bioware touches a lot of controversal themes of the society, just  different aspects of it and with a more "suave touch". They were also pioneers in the game industry, at that time. Simply they are different companies, and those differences in writing are present since 2007 its not a new thing.

 

I do hope though that Bioware will learn some game mechanics and most of all, writing of side quests from TW. And I do hope that CDPR will learn a bit from Bioware about character interaction. World is a beautiful place and there is place for everyones games preferences. I happen to love both of the games for 8 years now, and I hope both of them will be continuing to be succesful. I would not like to have a game world where a successful game is copied with clones following recipe of success, and where no originality and characteristics of the company are represented.

[robertthebard]

DAI and TW3 do have many things that are different. 
 
#1 DAI is a party/team driven adventure where you  (the Hero) has a group of followers who fight with you along the way. TW3 on the other hand is just you and nobody else.
 
#2 DAI allows for you to customize your hero while TW3 you play as one look and one gender.
 
HOWEVER,
 
That does not mean that you cannot compare the two in areas in which they both explore, such as cutscenes, sidequest, open world content/immersion etc. 
 
So can you compare the two games in some areas whereas in other areas you really cannot.  Just like when Fallout 4 comes out, it is different than TW3 and DAI in many ways, but you can still compare it in other areas such as character creation (DAI vs FO4), item/armor customization (DAI vs TW3 vs FO4) and open world immersion/content (DAI vs TW3 vs FO4). However, you would not compare the combat of Fallout 4 to that of TW3 or DAI because FO4 uses modern weapons like laser rifles while TW3 and DAI just uses swords, shields, and bows and Fallout 4 has the option to play first person which changes up the gameplay style from a combat perspective.
 
So no, DAI is not immune to comparision with Witcher 3 just cause TW3 doesn't focus on the "Hero's journey" like Dragon Age games.

Having read your synopsis, I come away thinking Assassin's Creed. All they need is the time hops, and it's a clone.

[Ariella]

Jazz,

Yeah it does. Completely different storytelling philosophy, and different infrastructure to support those stories.

This is kinda like the old Star Wars vs. Star Trek wars. Two very different takes on the genre making it a comparison of apples to oranges on which is 'better'.

[Majestic Jazz]

I do understand your points, and I see what your message is trying to be, and I do agree with most of your points. What I want to convey is that change cannot be forced on the unwilling:)

 

Bioware's approach to these kind of social issues was always very open but cautious at the same time. Imo CDPR is a pioneer on how their stories are told, in a dark medieval society setting with all that comes with it, without fear of controversy. It is great how bravely they interpreted the books world since the first game. Sales numbers also can mean a lot of things. Well, first of all, its a masterpiece indeed. That there was no backlash about how they wrote about womens role in the game, does not mean there wouldn"t be one if the game is not made in a preset book-world. I am a female myself and a vey pragmatic one, so I am not bothered at all, it is fiction so...but I bet lot of of the people who bought the game are young males jumping for first time in the series after hearing it is a mature game. ( No offence intended, ofcourse)

 

Also Bioware touches a lot of controversal themes of the society, just  different aspects of it and with a more "suave touch". They were also pioneers in the game industry, at that time. Simply they are different companies, and those differences in writing are present since 2007 its not a new thing.

 

I do hope though that Bioware will learn some game mechanics and most of all, writing of side quests from TW. And I do hope that CDPR will learn a bit from Bioware about character interaction. World is a beautiful place and there is place for everyones games preferences. I happen to love both of the games for 8 years now, and I hope both of them will be continuing to be succesful. I would not like to have a game world where a successful game is copied with clones following recipe of success, and where no originality and characteristics of the company are represented.

 

Well said! Both Bioware and CD Projekt Red takes bold moves in how they made DAI and TW3. With DAI, they were bold in how they decided to handle issues such as homosexuality, transgender and other social issues (even though TW3 touches on homosexuality as well) and on the other end, TW3 isn't afraid to be that bold "masculine focused" type of game that pretty much appeals directly to the male gamer.

 

This is why having both DAI succeed and TW3 succeed is great for the genre and industry as a whole. However I do prefer TW3 over DAI simply because I believe the sidequest and sidequest cutscenes were handled with more quality than that of DAI. Many side quest in TW3 had just as much emotion, if not more than some of the main storyline content and the open world in TW3 seemed to be more engaging than that of DAI which was big.....but not as engaging as TW3. 

[Majestic Jazz]

Jazz,

Yeah it does. Completely different storytelling philosophy, and different infrastructure to support those stories.

This is kinda like the old Star Wars vs. Star Trek wars. Two very different takes on the genre making it a comparison of apples to oranges on which is 'better'.

 

I do not understand your logic Ariella. You are saying as a consumer, one cannot compare items such as quality of sidequest design or the imersiveness of the open worlds between the two games because one is about a Hero saving the world and the other game is about a person dealing with family issues? So therefore any comparison between open world approaches or side quest design is invalid.....because one protagonist is a person saving the world and the other is a person dealing with family issues and political conflict?

 

 

[shepard0445]

For me it is as easy as this. I love the witcher games. I love the dragon age games, for different reasons. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. i will play them as long as they will make them.

Thanks for that nice and great post. Totally your opinion.

 

In my opinion this discusion got a bit out of hand in the last two pages.

 

I never intended to make a TW3 against DAI thread but the internet does its own thing.

 

DAI is a good game has parts where it is supirior to TW3 and parts in wich the TW is supirior.

But in totall DAI is the weakest DA part in my opinion and i am scared that this is the first clue to a destruction of the DA series like we know it.

 

One of the bigest mistakes in DAI was the whole end setting. if you give a end to big possibles it will be hard to import these desisions in the next instalment which the ME series proofs now.

 

Many desicions from the previous DA games where just mentioned shortly or only on a text in a book/wartablemission. The King of Ferelden topic has only two apearances and the most decisions you made in DAO and DA2 where just dismissed like the dalish and werewolfes in DAO or the lost son quest in DA2.

 

Where vanished to wolfes if you let them kill the dalish? What happend to the dreamer (forgot his name) if he got in the circle/free/possesed? What happend to Connor after the siege on Redcliff Castel in DAI?

 

A other problem is that other than in the witcher 3 you can choose what you think about religion/mages/war but what you say mainly dosnßt mater. I played a dalish elve which hated the churche and dismissed the maker but i was still the herlod of andraste.

 

On the otherside the witcher 3 has less replay valiue and the charackters are nice but for the little liberty you have it isn´t a more than two playthroughs game.  That gerald only has mages as fix girlfriends also is a minus point in the game and the low count of fix girlfriends is a shame in the witcher 3.

 

That while DAI feels a little like Naruto because both has a great story if you ignore the hole useless filer content. In Naruto there are hundret episodes apart of the main story and 10 episodes which focus on the main story. In DAI you have the main missions and you have the level and power system which makes the game from a 50h game to a 150h game. 

 

Also the exploring in the witcher 3 was more inviting for me than in DAI but i can´t tell why that is so. Maybe because of the sidequest and cutscenes which make the world of TW3 more living.

 

I love both games and i am also thrilled what bioware will make with Mass Effect Andromeda cause the import of the ME3 endings.

[duckley]

Love both games.

 

IMO TW3 has set a new standard in gaming - from depth of conversation, portrayal of local culture and lore, richness of personality development, quality of side quests and hair - have you seen the hair ....LOL!

 

I hope all game developers take note of the wonderful things accomplished in TW3

 

 - As an aside - as an older woman who has probably been married longer than most posters in this board have been alive, I don't get this concern about the portrayal of women or the issue of hyper-masculinity. But to each their own I suppose.

[Majestic Jazz]

Love both games.

 

IMO TW3 has set a new standard in gaming - from depth of conversation, portrayal of local culture and lore, richness of personality development, quality of side quests and hair - have you seen the hair ....LOL!

 

I hope all game developers take note of the wonderful things accomplished in TW3

 

 - As an aside - as an older woman who has probably been married longer than most posters in this board have been alive, I don't get this concern about the portrayal of women or the issue of hyper-masculinity. But to each their own I suppose.

 

 

Most older female gamers I know (not in person of course, but online) share your same thoughts. It is typically the younger "millennial" female gamers that sometimes are sensitive to such things. I mean they have every right and freedom to be, but it is just something I've mainly noticed in the younger crowd as opposed to the older women who just do not let such petty things get to them.  But like you said, to each their own. 

[disi123]

Apart from the content itself (lone wolf vs. leader of an army).

 

If you walk up close to a leaf or other vegetation in Witcher3 and Dragon Age Inquisition, you see the difference in textures.

The faces in Dragon Age are also much more impressive with all the different moods, animations, sweat and much more. The Witcher3 has this feature of Nvidia hair as an advantage, that only works on GPUs of that manufacturer.

 

Combat is much more responsive in Dragon Age Inquisition, but I get the point of Witcher3 to not fight fast but wait 0.5 to 1 second for a move to finish before you can do anything else. Dragon Age 2 had the best combat system IMHO, you really feel tough as a warrior.

[D_Schattenjager]

First .... thank you for giving me such a good laugh ... first day back from vacation ... your use of vivid imagination to overcome drawbacks of prev gen consoles is amazing ... but you don't pay attention to DAI mechanics ... nor do you know how game designing works and for that matter you don't even read what someone has typed before responding

And at least I am saying Bioware were limited by last gen console (thanks to EA) ... and not due to their abilities/intent. You seem to be wanting to prove they are bad/careless developers

 

1. Since the Templars would be dressed in Inq colors, depending on if you conscript them, then you may well see some, the problem is, all the troops look alike, and while it's really easy to say "because of last gen", the fact is, taking the man hours to develop all these different troops, half of which will not be seen in a single playthrough, and can't just be a "change the armor and their fine" kind of thing really isn't worth the cost.

 

Yes, and for your convenience they maintained the magic resistant templar armor in Haven and Skyhold and just changed to  the generic lesser effective Inq armor for the battles in Haven & Arbor Wilds.

And I guess Lysette didn't get your memo, cause every time I rescued her, she was wearing a templar's armor. 

By difference I don't mean cosmetic difference. See any mages cast spells if we pick mages? No ... see any templars dispelling magic if we go with templars? No ... why? because they didn't include that level dynamics in the combat.

 

2. Did you think that the Venatori, a cult that exists no matter which faction you chose, would simply cease to exist? Do the Templars that have already been affected by Red Lyrium simply cease to exist? No. This is why you'll get both factions. Also, doesn't wanting one faction to go away counter your argument for 1. here? You want to see all the troops we have, but you don't want to see all the troops that Cory has, until, wait for it, your #3 here...

 

Reread what I am saying before responding .... Do I say that they should cease to exist? No ... you are coming up with fictional structures to my statements because you fail to grasp what I am saying everywhere ....

So once again just for you ....

If Venatori exist even if we go with Mages and same for Red Templars but there are no missions/quests to find who is leading them? Why is there no Samson if we side with Templars and why is there no Calpernia if we side with mages?

 

3. Hissing Wastes. 

Am I saying same map? I am saying same battle or same spawn point. That doesn't happen anywhere ...

Why? Because Venatori and Templar forces are upgraded versions of the apostates & templars who are wrecking havoc in Hinterlands?

Ever tried doing either Hushed Whispers or Champions of Just without doing Apostates in Witchwood & Templars to the West?.... if you had you would have seen what I am talking about 

 

 

Really? The only time you see the rest of your squad working in DA O is when you got to play as another part of the team during the Battle of Denerim. The rest of the time, and the ones that aren't picked, they're in the party camp. It's funny, when I was clearing Haven during the assault, none of the comps that are positioned around the camp were just hangin' out watching the fighting. So because they're apparently busy off screen, you think they should have taken the extra development time to let you pick another 4 man squad to move people to the Chantry, so that you know for sure they're not just hiding out? You sincerely believe they didn't cut from the action for escort quests because of last gen consoles, and not because it would have been mind numbingly boring? 

Nope... 

Did you not pay attention to DAO? Right after the speech and charge videos, you have a sequence where you control Warden only and rest of your Inner Circle are fighting beside you. 

Did you not pay attention to DA2 also? You fight Meredith with everyone .... while controlling 3 ... this was one step ahead of DAO.

This is missed in DAI ... they could have done it in Haven or Adamant or Arbor Wilds or Final Battle ... I am sure they wanted to ... but could not because of last gen ... 2 steps back ....

 

You obviously didn't pay a lot of attention during the cutscene in question, or you wouldn't ask the question. You see, there's a scene where you look back and can see some of the Inner Circle. Do you see them all? No, but I'd imagine that that's because some or most of them are taking up positions along the column to protect the civilians/wounded. It's hilarious how your lack of knowledge of how columns move through hostile territory is a problem with last gen consoles, or just sloppy coding?

Is this some video you saw in your dream or are you confusing Inner Circle with Advisors? Or wait ... were they dressed in generic Inq colors for the video so that people could not make out the difference easily? Amazing ... your imagnation is ....

The videos sequences are more or less static. Dynamic sequences require dynamic coding and last gen could not handle the demands dynamic coding on FB3

 

Nope, best example is Crestwood. Evidently, you weren't paying a lot of attention during that map. Close the rift that used to be under the lake, not that draining the lake isn't a major environmental change in and of itself, and check out the weather... Hope you didn't have anything that actually pertained to the game after this misinformation, because I stopped reading here.

Crestwood changes when you are in Flooded Caves and not in Crestwood itself. If you had been paying attention ... you can see a bit of the sky in Flooded Caves just as you enter, if you go back to see that section after changing the rift, the sky is still the same. 

My reference was change to environment while you are in the same environment .... Around the deposit when you destroy red lyrium vein .... there are still big chunks of it on the wall everywhere, why doesn't the whole thing shatter? Why doesn't the surrounding lyrium recede after you shatter the veins? If it doesn't recede how can we be sure that the needful was done ...

The best example of what DAI could have been is Skyhold, which undergoes dynamic upgrades due to your actions

 

So, by and large, you chose to ignore a lot of the content so that you could go "But the Witcher does it better".

 

Go away ... play all the 3 games multiple times ... then come back to debate ... 

 

How this compares to Witcher 3

 

1.  Gameplay and video areas are same. E.g. the funeral video in Skillege

2.  Main Quest areas and Side Quest areas Overlap

3.  Dynamic changes right there due to your actions (Villages being established when you destroy Monster Nests)

 

Pure content wise DAI > > Witcher 3 ... very easily ... but the later has been presented in a much superior format ....

[Lorelei Cousland]

Even though DAI was a huge disappointment for me, I still prefer it to the Witcher 3.

I find the plot, the lore and the whole world of the Witcher 3 oddly bland and not particularly interesting. And the way they made your choices influence the world is a joke because there was no logic to it. The combat was boring, and the controls were annoying. It took me about 3 months to finish the game because I just couldn't really be bothered to play it. Yes, Geralt is a great character, and the graphics are amazing, and the world is beautiful, but it just wasn't enough. Dragon Age drew me in and made me CARE right from the start, which the Witcher failed to do.

[Beomer]

Even though DAI was a huge disappointment for me, I still prefer it to the Witcher 3.

I find the plot, the lore and the whole world of the Witcher 3 oddly bland and not particularly interesting. And the way they made your choices influence the world is a joke because there was no logic to it. The combat was boring, and the controls were annoying. It took me about 3 months to finish the game because I just couldn't really be bothered to play it. Yes, Geralt is a great character, and the graphics are amazing, and the world is beautiful, but it just wasn't enough. Dragon Age drew me in and made me CARE right from the start, which the Witcher failed to do.

 

Read the books?

[Girtuoklis]

Compare these two games is like to compare cheap, mass produced hamburger from Macdonalds, which is DAI , and luxurious cousine from best restauran in the world (Witcher 3).