306 réponses à ce sujet

[Bayonet Hipshot]

DAI - Made by Canadian schoolchildren fumbling around with crayons.

 

TW3 - Made by Polish maestros carefully crafting their magnus opus.

 

To compare TW3 with DAI is an insult to TW3. Its like comparing Beethoven with Bieber.

[9TailsFox]

Thanks for that nice and great post. Totally your opinion.

 

In my opinion this discusion got a bit out of hand in the last two pages.

 

I never intended to make a TW3 against DAI thread but the internet does its own thing.

 

DAI is a good game has parts where it is supirior to TW3 and parts in wich the TW is supirior.

But in totall DAI is the weakest DA part in my opinion and i am scared that this is the first clue to a destruction of the DA series like we know it.

 

One of the bigest mistakes in DAI was the whole end setting. if you give a end to big possibles it will be hard to import these desisions in the next instalment which the ME series proofs now.

 

Many desicions from the previous DA games where just mentioned shortly or only on a text in a book/wartablemission. The King of Ferelden topic has only two apearances and the most decisions you made in DAO and DA2 where just dismissed like the dalish and werewolfes in DAO or the lost son quest in DA2.

 

Where vanished to wolfes if you let them kill the dalish? What happend to the dreamer (forgot his name) if he got in the circle/free/possesed? What happend to Connor after the siege on Redcliff Castel in DAI?

 

A other problem is that other than in the witcher 3 you can choose what you think about religion/mages/war but what you say mainly dosnßt mater. I played a dalish elve which hated the churche and dismissed the maker but i was still the herlod of andraste.

 

On the otherside the witcher 3 has less replay valiue and the charackters are nice but for the little liberty you have it isn´t a more than two playthroughs game.  That gerald only has mages as fix girlfriends also is a minus point in the game and the low count of fix girlfriends is a shame in the witcher 3.

 

That while DAI feels a little like Naruto because both has a great story if you ignore the hole useless filer content. In Naruto there are hundret episodes apart of the main story and 10 episodes which focus on the main story. In DAI you have the main missions and you have the level and power system which makes the game from a 50h game to a 150h game. 

 

Also the exploring in the witcher 3 was more inviting for me than in DAI but i can´t tell why that is so. Maybe because of the sidequest and cutscenes which make the world of TW3 more living.

 

I love both games and i am also thrilled what bioware will make with Mass Effect Andromeda cause the import of the ME3 endings.

[Beomer]

Compare these two games is like to compare cheap, mass produced hamburger from Macdonalds, which is DAI , and luxurious cousine from best restauran in the world (Witcher 3).

 

I wanted to make a snarky comment about my luxurious 'cousine' who lives in a palace and eats using silver cutlery, but in the spirit of goodwill and brotherhood I will desist.

[correctamundo]

Well we do have, in our closed wards, people who actually believe they live in a castle.

[Lorelei Cousland]

Read the books?

 

Well, I tried to read the collection of short stories, but got bored about halfway through... I can't say that they gave me a greater appreciation of the characters or the world.

[Beomer]

Well, I tried to read the collection of short stories, but got bored about halfway through... I can't say that they gave me a greater appreciation of the characters or the world.

 

Yeeeeeaah. You'll actually need to get into the novels for more exposition because the short stories don't really explain much, being, you know...short stories.

But to each his own.

[Donk]

Yeeeeeaah. You'll actually need to get into the novels for more exposition because the short stories don't really explain much, being, you know...short stories.

But to each his own.

 

True. The Last Wish confused me at times, but in a way it's kinda necessary if you want to read the actual series.

[Lorelei Cousland]

Yeeeeeaah. You'll actually need to get into the novels for more exposition because the short stories don't really explain much, being, you know...short stories.

But to each his own.

 

I started with the short stories because they precede the novels. I thought of just skipping to the first book but figured I'd get confused.

[diaspora2k5]

Read the books?

Having read the Witcher books, the story and lore of Thedas still has a massive advantage over the Continent.

[Yilin]

Tried to play witcher 1 & 2 but never made it more than half an hour into each, never read the books.. Finished the main story for W3 tonight... made me cry more than DA:I >.> thoroughly enjoyed both tho and sooo hyped for trespasser

 

edit: spelling

[shepard0445]

Really? The only time you see the rest of your squad working in DA O is when you got to play as another part of the team during the Battle of Denerim. The rest of the time, and the ones that aren't picked, they're in the party camp. It's funny, when I was clearing Haven during the assault, none of the comps that are positioned around the camp were just hangin' out watching the fighting. So because they're apparently busy off screen, you think they should have taken the extra development time to let you pick another 4 man squad to move people to the Chantry, so that you know for sure they're not just hiding out? You sincerely believe they didn't cut from the action for escort quests because of last gen consoles, and not because it would have been mind numbingly boring?
 

But if you speak with your companions after battels they speak as if they weren´t there

[Beomer]

Having read the Witcher books, the story and lore of Thedas still has a massive advantage over the Continent.

 

I didn't know I was comparing.

A user had written he didn't really enjoy the lore of the Witcher world and I asked him if he'd read the books, that's all.

[D_Schattenjager]

Compare these two games is like to compare cheap, mass produced hamburger from Macdonalds, which is DAI , and luxurious cousine from best restauran in the world (Witcher 3).

 

DAI exceeds Witcher 3 content wise without having the advantage of books to build up majority of NPCs. You do realize that having a group of 4 specialists who can individually be beaten easily is more believable compared a single superhuman. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

I didn't know I was comparing.

A user had written he didn't really enjoy the lore of the Witcher world and I asked him if he'd read the books, that's all.

 

The games should be able to stand on their own. You don't need to read the various Dragon Age books or the World of Thedas to undertand the setting. But the world of The Witcher does seem a bit... I don't know, stale?

 

What's the difference between the Northern realms for starters? As far as I have seen, Temeria is a land with supersticious peasants, arsehole soldiers and bigger arse kings. We didn't see Kaedwen's peasentry, but their soldiers and kings are also assholes. Redania has supersticious peasentry, arse soldiers and arse kings who become mad kings in between games. Aedirn has arse princes on top of arse kings, and of course supersticious peasentry, with a dash of hard-drinking, hard-fighting dwarves for originality's sake. 

 

I know Nilfgaard is different, but as I heard it the games don't follow the same path as the books; whereas Game!Nilfgaard is a strict but relatively fair realm with its pros and cons, apparently Book!Nilfgaard are the biggest assholes of them all. I do know Emhyr doesn't live up to the hype at all, however. Bit of a waste of Charles Dance in fact.

 

Okay, Skellige is less bad, its rulers being apparently decent guys even if they also enjoy a spot of raiding and drunken brawls from time to time. They are a bit of a bunch of Viking stereotypes, but it's all in good fun so I'm not complaining.

 

Add to that the numerous anachronisms, magic that serves as plot devices even more than in Dragon Age, the Wild Hunt's extradimentional shenanigans and the White Frost ending up an afterthought, and the game's setting just doesn't end up interesting me as Thedas does. 

[robertthebard]

First .... thank you for giving me such a good laugh ... first day back from vacation ... your use of vivid imagination to overcome drawbacks of prev gen consoles is amazing ... but you don't pay attention to DAI mechanics ... nor do you know how game designing works and for that matter you don't even read what someone has typed before responding
And at least I am saying Bioware were limited by last gen console (thanks to EA) ... and not due to their abilities/intent. You seem to be wanting to prove they are bad/careless developers
 
 
Yes, and for your convenience they maintained the magic resistant templar armor in Haven and Skyhold and just changed to  the generic lesser effective Inq armor for the battles in Haven & Arbor Wilds.
And I guess Lysette didn't get your memo, cause every time I rescued her, she was wearing a templar's armor. 
By difference I don't mean cosmetic difference. See any mages cast spells if we pick mages? No ... see any templars dispelling magic if we go with templars? No ... why? because they didn't include that level dynamics in the combat.
 

 

Reread what I am saying before responding .... Do I say that they should cease to exist? No ... you are coming up with fictional structures to my statements because you fail to grasp what I am saying everywhere ....
So once again just for you ....
If Venatori exist even if we go with Mages and same for Red Templars but there are no missions/quests to find who is leading them? Why is there no Samson if we side with Templars and why is there no Calpernia if we side with mages?
 

Am I saying same map? I am saying same battle or same spawn point. That doesn't happen anywhere ...
Why? Because Venatori and Templar forces are upgraded versions of the apostates & templars who are wrecking havoc in Hinterlands?
Ever tried doing either Hushed Whispers or Champions of Just without doing Apostates in Witchwood & Templars to the West?.... if you had you would have seen what I am talking about 

 
 

Nope... 

Did you not pay attention to DAO? Right after the speech and charge videos, you have a sequence where you control Warden only and rest of your Inner Circle are fighting beside you. 
Did you not pay attention to DA2 also? You fight Meredith with everyone .... while controlling 3 ... this was one step ahead of DAO.
This is missed in DAI ... they could have done it in Haven or Adamant or Arbor Wilds or Final Battle ... I am sure they wanted to ... but could not because of last gen ... 2 steps back ....
 


Is this some video you saw in your dream or are you confusing Inner Circle with Advisors? Or wait ... were they dressed in generic Inq colors for the video so that people could not make out the difference easily? Amazing ... your imagnation is ....
The videos sequences are more or less static. Dynamic sequences require dynamic coding and last gen could not handle the demands dynamic coding on FB3


 

Crestwood changes when you are in Flooded Caves and not in Crestwood itself. If you had been paying attention ... you can see a bit of the sky in Flooded Caves just as you enter, if you go back to see that section after changing the rift, the sky is still the same. 

My reference was change to environment while you are in the same environment .... Around the deposit when you destroy red lyrium vein .... there are still big chunks of it on the wall everywhere, why doesn't the whole thing shatter? Why doesn't the surrounding lyrium recede after you shatter the veins? If it doesn't recede how can we be sure that the needful was done ...
The best example of what DAI could have been is Skyhold, which undergoes dynamic upgrades due to your actions
 

 

Go away ... play all the 3 games multiple times ... then come back to debate ... 
 
How this compares to Witcher 3
 
1.  Gameplay and video areas are same. E.g. the funeral video in Skillege
2.  Main Quest areas and Side Quest areas Overlap
3.  Dynamic changes right there due to your actions (Villages being established when you destroy Monster Nests)
 
Pure content wise DAI > > Witcher 3 ... very easily ... but the later has been presented in a much superior format ....

So, in other words, my synopsis was correct: You ignored a lot of content because you wanted to preach about the Witcher. Here's an interesting tidbit for you: I own the Enhanced editions of both TW and TW 2, neither game could grab me enough to drive me to finish them; fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, why should I go for 3, when the first 2 didn't interest me enough to even finish them. In that regard, as I've stated multiple times, DA beats TW hands down, I have multiple completions on all three titles in the series. Hell, Tomb Raider's 2013 installment is better, I've finished it once too.

Just a note, the lake drains before you go into the caves, you get to watch it happen from the tavern after you open the flood gates. I know, that's inconvenient for your narrative, and must be disregarded, but there it is. The rift is in the caves, closing it requires that you be in the caves, and no, you don't see the change until, wait for it, you come out of the caves... Logic is hard, eh?

[D_Schattenjager]

So, in other words, my synopsis was correct: You ignored a lot of content because you wanted to preach about the Witcher. Here's an interesting tidbit for you: I own the Enhanced editions of both TW and TW 2, neither game could grab me enough to drive me to finish them; fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, why should I go for 3, when the first 2 didn't interest me enough to even finish them. In that regard, as I've stated multiple times, DA beats TW hands down, I have multiple completions on all three titles in the series. Hell, Tomb Raider's 2013 installment is better, I've finished it once too.

Just a note, the lake drains before you go into the caves, you get to watch it happen from the tavern after you open the flood gates. I know, that's inconvenient for your narrative, and must be disregarded, but there it is. The rift is in the caves, closing it requires that you be in the caves, and no, you don't see the change until, wait for it, you come out of the caves... Logic is hard, eh?

No, your examples and explanation showed that you don't pay attention but like to preach nonsense

And you still don't understand game design

Is the tavern in a continuous area of Crestwood? NO ... the door you go through is an interface to a different map ... so when the change happens you are NOT on the Crestwood map at all. But I guess this all too tough for you to grasp

As mentioned by me, the best example of dynamic change is Skyhold. You really need to play the games again before commenting ... 

[Jeniva]

ok i haven't finished witcher 3 so i'm avoiding most comments on here in case of witcher spoilers. 
my own comparison is

 

Witcher 3 has far far far more better side quests, they're 10million times more fun and interesting. 
I also enjoy the hunting treasure etc as apposed to point of interests and those damn shards. 
NPCs are also a gazillion times better. 
obviously geralt is way better than the bland inquisitor, far more awesome. 

I prefer the romances in DA, you get a lot more time in that. 
I prefer the battle system and having a full party in DA as opposed to witcher. 

I also way prefer your mount in DA, i can't jump off cliffs in witcher for short cuts on my horse  
The main story in DA is better than witcher 3, i think anyway. 

I feel like DA is such a kids game in comparison to the witcher. the language etc is a lot more adult in the witcher. everythings far more brutal in the witcher as well. 
Overall quest wise I prefer the witcher. I after grinding DA so many times I want to shoot myself with all the pointless side quests which are just not enjoyable. The companions and interaction with them, and main quest, are the things that kept me playing DAI

[Lady Ishtar]

Anything and anyone who made DAO great left. Now there is only those megalomanic storytellers who think too much of themselves and a bunch of people who love action games programming the gameplay, so good bye-oware

[Beomer]

~snip~

 

Mate since you haven't read the books and are basing stuff on what you've heard I won't argue. TBH I don't think I would've argued even if you had because I'm bored stiff of people saying how dull the Witcher world is. If you didn't enjoy it, too bad. The world is based on medieval Europe and draws heavily from Eastern European mythology.

And as for the specific question why you might need to read the books to feel more interested in the world, the answer is the same as to why people recommend you read ASoIaF when you start watching Game of Thrones, or why people say read the Tolkien's books when you watch the movies. Because the books came first and are the source material. As a rule they provide more information than a TV show, or a game or a movie. The obvious exception is when books are written based on worlds created for games.

[robertthebard]

No, your examples and explanation showed that you don't pay attention but like to preach nonsense
And you still don't understand game design
Is the tavern in a continuous area of Crestwood? NO ... the door you go through is an interface to a different map ... so when the change happens you are NOT on the Crestwood map at all. But I guess this all too tough for you to grasp
As mentioned by me, the best example of dynamic change is Skyhold. You really need to play the games again before commenting ...

So link me up to all the great games that you've developed, that you want to call me out on my knowledge of game design? I mean, I wrote stories, drew up areas and scripted for modules in NWN, but I've never built a game from the ground up. So, since you want to call me on my knowledge, or lack there of, I'm going to have to see some credentials. After all, apparently you're some kind of expert, so let's all see what it is you do in the industry?

Speaking of preaching nonsense: "But the tavern isn't in Crestwood". Access it from anywhere else. If you have Win 10, you can even shoot video of you doing so. I'll wait.

[D_Schattenjager]

Mate since you haven't read the books and are basing stuff on what you've heard I won't argue. TBH I don't think I would've argued even if you had because I'm bored stiff of people saying how dull the Witcher world is. If you didn't enjoy it, too bad. The world is based on medieval Europe and draws heavily from Eastern European mythology.

 

I think the original point was fair. You don't see much difference within the culture various northern realms in the 3 games so far. You also don't see much exposure to Nilfgaard beyond military even though they are a major player in at least 2 games.

The contrast between nation's customs is more distinct in Thedas ... so far we have been given an insight into Ferelden, Orlais, Antivan and Nevaran cultures and their differences quite well. 

[D_Schattenjager]

So link me up to all the great games that you've developed, that you want to call me out on my knowledge of game design? I mean, I wrote stories, drew up areas and scripted for modules in NWN, but I've never built a game from the ground up. So, since you want to call me on my knowledge, or lack there of, I'm going to have to see some credentials. After all, apparently you're some kind of expert, so let's all see what it is you do in the industry?

Speaking of preaching nonsense: "But the tavern isn't in Crestwood". Access it from anywhere else. If you have Win 10, you can even shoot video of you doing so. I'll wait.

Yup and you are still writing up stories to prove your point and ignoring facts

"Access it from elsewhere"   .. go away child ... if its a different map then you can potentially access it from Skyhold also as long as the developers code that in ... the developers (not you) are in control of which map can be accessed from where. I knew this when I was developing custom maps for local fun for Unreal almost 2 decades ago ... and I am not even a game development expert.

Your examples show that you don't even understand such small basics.... 

[robertthebard]

Yup and you are still writing up stories to prove your point and ignoring facts
"Access it from elsewhere"   .. go away child ... if its a different map then you can potentially access it from Skyhold also as long as the developers code that in ... the developers (not you) are in control of which map can be accessed from where. I knew this when I was developing custom maps for local fun for Unreal almost 2 decades ago ... and I am not even a game development expert.
Your examples show that you don't even understand such small basics....

Let's talk about ignoring facts. You can't access the tavern with the dam controls from any map but the Crestwood map. What the developers could have done doesn't matter, what matters is what's actually in the game. I know, I'm making stuff up again, since you can't refute it with anything but "But you don't know anything about game development". Here's what I do know: That tavern cannot be accessed from anywhere but the Crestwood map. You can't even warp to it, like a camp, you have to walk to it. When you open the dam controls, you can then access areas of the map that were underwater. This means that the environment changes drastically after you open the flood gates, which was the whole point of this little exchange. After you close the formally underwater rift, the environment changes even more.

[Erstus]

Hmm. Well, I agree with your thoughts and points, OP.

I just wanted to list some strong/weak points of both games that stuck out to me -

Companions - Personally, I felt more attachment and connection with my companions in DAI. The quests involves with them and all of the conversations were well done. In The Witcher 3 I felt the companion/friend interactions were short and far between. The few they had were great but after doing the Ball with Triss that is the last you hear from her for a while. No comments from her after that event.

Combat was terrible in DAI, in my opinion. It felt grind and reminded me of an MMO. Just hold R2 down and mash a few buttons.

As far as your comment goes about the darker atmosphere of DAO, well, I agree to an extent. I don't fault the graphics for that though. I fault the soundtrack and Morris. The soundtrack was very "high fantasy epic" which to me was generic. They should kept Inon Zur on board. His music was darker and made the DA universe and atmosphere unique.

[shepard0445]

As far as your comment goes about the darker atmosphere of DAO, well, I agree to an extent. I don't fault the graphics for that though. I fault the soundtrack and Morris. The soundtrack was very "high fantasy epic" which to me was generic. They should kept Inon Zur on board. His music was darker and made the DA universe and atmosphere unique.

While DAO had this fell of missery and brutality in it this is missing in DAI. In DAO your brother threw you out of orzammar and makes you kill your brother or the problems at the slum of the eleves. Killing the dalish hunter which is wounded and rob him. And the fighting killing scenes also made this atmosphere really great.

In DAI nothing of all that is present. I the side quest the wrongest thing you can do is to sell a person to a demon or to rob the graves of the dalish. 

DA2 made the missing killing scenes up with it´s poor people missery.

 

While DAI you grow to a big and important person your proplems do not grow with you. no they just dissapear. also a brutal charakter like morrigan or sten is missing.