Aller au contenu

Photo

Artificial Intelligence in the game; for the AI


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
6 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Pistolized

Pistolized
  • Members
  • 219 messages

By that I mean artificial intelligence relating to the gameplay itself.  Not the artificially intelligent characters, such as Geth, Reapers, EDI, and the Moonbase artificial intelligence, etc...   Although...  I may breach the idea of the AI of AI later if my thoughts go that direction.

 

**Turns out this post is really really long, so:  Too long, didn't read:  I want the AI of the enemies and squadmates to be significantly improved intelligence-wise.  Meaning they should have better strategies, as well as goals during a fight to augment their "intelligence."  I want to believe they are people or people-like constructs.  Please correct me if I'm wrong; I accept criticism.  Note sig: I don't actually think this is groundbreaking stuff, it's just that nobody seems to talk about it.

 

 

A lot of people apparently are concerned about new Features of the game.  Like the Mako, and the new planets, and the new galaxy, and the new races, motivations,plot,continuity,graphics,etc,etc.  This goes for most game announcements where people just look at the graphics and other "feature" improvements/additions.  If you know what I mean.

 

So, what I'm getting at is:  will the AI of the enemies and allies of the game be significantly improved (during gameplay)?  As of now I feel most AI in games don't give me the sense that I am fighting a sentient being, which ought to be one of the goals.  Especially for RPG's where I am supposed to believe my teammates and enemies are people, with personalities, military training, fear-of-death, feelings, yada yada.

 

For example, in ME3 multiplayer, the AI enemies' strategy was to slowly walk at you and shoot.  Occasionally certain units would take cover, but they would eventually leave cover so you could kill them.  Cerberus didn't use their sheild generators which were a big component of their SP strategy.  Also in MP they don't seem to bother waiting for reinforcements.    I recognize some of that is to keep the game fun, and some of that is how hard it might be to run AI server-side for hundreds of matches simultaneously.  Even in single player (mostly. Exceptions excluded :ph34r:  ), the enemy's goal was just to kill you.  Not to defend an area, or to take an area, to destroy or capture an item, etc.  

 

So, in order to facilitate 'better AI', I propose that ME:A puts in more scenarios which would allow for different strategies by the AI.  Such as:

--I am invading their base, to kill them.  AI goes all out to protect their base, and their equipment.

--I am invading their base, to retrieve or destroy an item.  AI takes defensive positions around the item.  This is accomplished in single player already.

--I am escaping a base, AI takes defensive positions around the exit and certain pathways.  Possibly some dedicated squads to attack or flush me out.  This makes me think they don't want me to leave, and they have the intelligence to flank me.

--They are attacking my base, to kill me.  Nothing changes, I guess.  Suicide mode enemies?

--They are attacking my base, to get at something.  I and my squad must stop them.  Friendlies take defensive positions while my squad kills everyone / drives them back.

--Someone doing something.  possibility of retreat from either side.

 

Ok, now that I've said that, I can say:  If an enemy has a shield or barrier, and it is low, or broken, their artificial intelligence should tell them to scramble for cover.  Mass Effect has historically made excuses by creating "mentally deficient" characters.  Like Cerberus being mind-controlled cyborgs, Collector/Reaper forces being mass killing machines engineered to be expendable, Geth having their consciousness downloading upon 'death', Vorcha being a less-than-intelligent/hyper-violent species, and various mind-controlled or feral colonists.  Etcetera.  Dragon Age does this too with Darkspawn, demons, and Red Templars.  So if I'm fighting against an enemy which is not designed to be suicidal, please keep them from being suicidal!  Does that mean that shields need to be weaker so cover doesn't equate to invincibility?  Does that mean cover should be destructable?  I don't know.  The execution is in Bioware's hands and I don't propose to tell them- "dudes, just put destructible environments in, it'll be totally easy and solve all problems"

 

Idea: what if the individual units were still relatively dumb, but they operated in squads, with the squad being it's own AI unit, providing the additional intelligence?  The squad of enemies would act like a squad.  Move between cover spots.  Provide covering fire for their teammates.  

 

Enemy omniscience.  Enemies always know where you are.  Of course there's inter-enemy radio communications, and radar... So that makes sense and is OK I guess...  But, if they know where I am, then shouldn't they be able to form a better attack/defense strategy?  Including flanking and ambushing?

 

And now, about the artificial intelligence of those characters and factions whose intelligence is artificial.  It's hard to think like a Geth.  Do they have fear?  (( Note: Geth, specifically, have functionality which allows their minds and memories to be downloaded to nearby 'servers' if their chassis is destroyed.))   Do they recognize the economic and strategic downfall of losing one or more troops, even if the component AI consciousnesses are saved?  Of course they recognize it, but what value do they place on those things?  If a Geth knows it has been cut off from the downloading process, how will it react differently?  If the Geth forces have a legion of chassis to pull from, will their troops become careless?  For another AI character which has nothing to do with the Geth and their design, how would that respond differently than a Geth unit in the same situations?  Would it mimic fear, like the Earth moonbase AI in ME1?  Would it literally have fear or other ambitions?

 

*Pre-post edit:  I recognize some of my ideas/reasoning/facts/assessments will be wrong.  That's why this is on a forum and not my official letterhead to the Bioware offices.  So pick one of the things I'm right or wrong about and run with it :)


  • King Killoth, KrrKs et Oldren Shepard aiment ceci

#2
AlexiaRevan

AlexiaRevan
  • Members
  • 14 733 messages

That sound more like an MMO...or Multiplayer no ? 

 

For a second I though you were talking about AI..you know droids and stuff  :lol:

 

This..

 

 

--I am invading their base, to kill them.  AI goes all out to protect their base, and their equipment.

--I am invading their base, to retrieve or destroy an item.  AI takes defensive positions around the item.  This is accomplished in single player already.

--I am escaping a base, AI takes defensive positions around the exit and certain pathways.  Possibly some dedicated squads to attack or flush me out.  This makes me think they don't want me to leave, and they have the intelligence to flank me.

--They are attacking my base, to kill me.  Nothing changes, I guess.  Suicide mode enemies?

--They are attacking my base, to get at something.  I and my squad must stop them.  Friendlies take defensive positions while my squad kills everyone / drives them back.

--Someone doing something.  possibility of retreat from either side.

Remind me very much of an MMO behavior or multiplayer , with maps who have different goals . I don't know how and IF its possible to do it in a single player Game . I think it maybe tied to 2 things : IF they want to and Engine limitations . 

 

I did see something like this , it was a Mod in Skyrim . Make the AI...as the guy put it 'More Intelligent' ...going as far as track you down if you kill someone instead of just rushing and making playing a rogue more fun . 



#3
Oldren Shepard

Oldren Shepard
  • Members
  • 480 messages

There are some bugs that take me out of the immersion while i'm in the story, but nevertheless the trilogy is the best of the best, they gave me a level so high to match, that most all video games (with good stories) don't reach...so i'll wait and i know they'll surprise me again. They already did it with that trailer.



#4
Pistolized

Pistolized
  • Members
  • 219 messages

That sound more like an MMO...or Multiplayer no ? 

 

For a second I though you were talking about AI..you know droids and stuff  :lol:

 

This..

 

Remind me very much of an MMO behavior or multiplayer , with maps who have different goals . I don't know how and IF its possible to do it in a single player Game . I think it maybe tied to 2 things : IF they want to and Engine limitations . 

 

I did see something like this , it was a Mod in Skyrim . Make the AI...as the guy put it 'More Intelligent' ...going as far as track you down if you kill someone instead of just rushing and making playing a rogue more fun . 

God no.  MMO gameplay is literally garbage.  I did take a lot from ME3MP, but the observation isn't exclusively from that.  Cerberus in ME3 did a decent job with their shield generators and holding their ground.  But a lot of the other enemies didn't bother.  And when I said "my base" and "their base" I really meant "any location in which I am currently residing"  or  "any location with entrenched hostile characters."

 

And most importantly, something I forgot to include in the topic post.  Bioware, DO NOT create real artificial intelligence to improve the game's combat scenarios.  Thanks.



#5
AlexiaRevan

AlexiaRevan
  • Members
  • 14 733 messages

God no.  MMO gameplay is literally garbage.  I did take a lot from ME3MP, but the observation isn't exclusively from that.  Cerberus in ME3 did a decent job with their shield generators and holding their ground.  But a lot of the other enemies didn't bother.  And when I said "my base" and "their base" I really meant "any location in which I am currently residing"  or  "any location with entrenched hostile characters."

 

And most importantly, something I forgot to include in the topic post.  Bioware, DO NOT create real artificial intelligence to improve the game's combat scenarios.  Thanks.

I have 4 MMO installed on my computer . And at least 2 of them fit the bill of what you were asking . 

 

Star Trek Online , has alot of PVP Maps that are like that . A bunch of ships vs other ships and you must destroy turrets on the way . Healing each others is a must as well . 

 

Guild Wars 2 PVP is based on capture the flag or area . 

 

So not all of them are crap....some peoples like them  :P



#6
Serza

Serza
  • Members
  • 13 128 messages

F no. The Tech Master Race isn't repeating their mistake.

 

 

Unless... woo, mechanics!

(Uh, scrambled eggs in my brain, how'd they get there this time?)

 

 

Oh, and I agree, by the way. I mean, sometimes we get these really clever AI opponents in ArmA, and suddenly LOOK THE F OUT THEY'RE AFTER US.



#7
Pistolized

Pistolized
  • Members
  • 219 messages

Don't get me wrong, my problem with MMO's is the inherent flaw in having all enemies managed and coordinated through a single server, and all the downgrades that causes.  As a social system, or a 'social game' they're fine, I play SWTOR occasionally, but compared to a "real" game, all gameplay elements are dumbed down.  So when you say "like an MMO" I think - enemies standing or patrolling a single spot for all eternity, until you pass within 10 feet of them.  MMO enemies lack intelligence in nearly every way.

 

And PVP of any kind is a different animal entirely.  It has nothing to do with AI.

 

I'm rereading my bullet point list and I'm not sure where I was going with that...  What I think I wanted to say is something like:  

Enemies should have value of their own lives.  There were so many times when an enemy would leave its entrenched position with its squad and walk up to me in order to melee me.  Especially in ME3MP.  "But I have a rifle and super powers... don't you understand you are going to die using that strategy?"  Or I would advance against their line and they would not retreat.  "But I have super powers and fought through half your army without any casualties...  don't you understand you are going to die using that strategy?"