Exactly what are you asking for here? Remove all of the scanning and you'd maybe have freed up enough dev time to do one more N7 mission... assuming that you could get a map for free from the MP team, that is.
Would ME3 have actually been better with one more N7 mission and no galaxy map and Citadel interactions? Or are you asking for the existing ME3 plus a bunch of additional dev time spent on sidequests?
And what PR and moral victory? Did you feel that there was a Reaper press secretary somewhere cursing Shepard. The Reapers don't care, they just destroy.
Now I have this image of Harbinger as the iraqi reaper information minister in my head spouting one liners. 
The eavesdrop stuff was crap, but they were fairly few, short and painless, but ME3 did have some entertaining side missions. Stuff like Grissom, Utukku and rescuing Koris were decent. I have a soft spot for the Zaeed meetup with the volus, because threatening to have the diplomat beat up is pretty funny.How about implementing entertaining side quests this time? ME3 was the worst offender with its fetch quests (scan a planet, get invisible war assets) How exciting!
ME3's problem in general is that Shepard is an uber-badass who just slaughters his/her way through legions of enemies, and who - apart from some sacrifices and drama - totally wins overhwelming victories. Rannoch, for example, is a huge win either way (esp. with the peace path). Same with Tuchanka. And when the game kicks off with "Reaper Killing MacGuffin Off Button" as the main plot, all the stuff about overwhelming odds is hard to take seriously.
What game were you playing? Rannoch a huge win? It takes like 5 broadsides from the most powerful single fleet in the galaxy, directed by space Jesus with a laser invented by one of the galaxies greatest geniuses to take out a single baby Reaper (y'know, those ones they have hundreds of thousands of), and you potentially then either go Brutus-Hitler on your allies and commit a genocide of 17 million people and an entire culture, or destroy lots of useful military hardware and software. Even if you avoid that, it's hardly a vote of confidence considering how much effort it took to destroy a completely insignificant enemy destroyer, and the fact that this new "peace" was only possible via your unconditional surrender to the other machines and their newly ascendant level of technology.
Tuchanka is arguably even worse. You wouldn't have been able to win against the baby Reaper at all without a random space monster that only exists on the planet you happened to be on deciding it needed a snack, and you also potentially have to commit a genocide or potentially enable another devastating galactic war in the future just to get the forces you need not to win, but merely to keep from losing spectacularly.
However, yeah, you're ultimatley right about the crucible. Discovering a deus ex-machina within the first 30 minutes of the game pretty much murders any suspense the narrative could possibly have if you've a knowledge of literary tropes. Ultimately though, that was probably the only way the story could progress considering the hole the plot fell into via doing absolutely nothing of relevance between ME1 and ME3.
What game were you playing? Rannoch a huge win? It takes like 5 broadsides from the most powerful single fleet in the galaxy, directed by space Jesus with a laser invented by one of the galaxies greatest geniuses to take out a single baby Reaper (y'know, those ones they have hundreds of thousands of), and you potentially then either go Brutus-Hitler on your allies and commit a genocide of 17 million people and an entire culture, or destroy lots of useful military hardware and software. Even if you avoid that, it's hardly a vote of confidence considering how much effort it took to destroy a completely insignificant enemy destroyer, and the fact that this new "peace" was only possible via your unconditional surrender to the other machines and their newly ascendant level of technology.
Tuchanka is arguably even worse. You wouldn't have been able to win against the baby Reaper at all without a random space monster that only exists on the planet you happened to be on deciding it needed a snack, and you also potentially have to commit a genocide or potentially enable another devastating galactic war in the future just to get the forces you need not to win, but merely to keep from losing spectacularly.
However, yeah, you're ultimatley right about the crucible. Discovering a deus ex-machina within the first 30 minutes of the game pretty much murders any suspense the narrative could possibly have if you've a knowledge of literary tropes. Ultimately though, that was probably the only way the story could progress considering the hole the plot fell into via doing absolutely nothing of relevance between ME1 and ME3.
As much as I agree with what you say (which is quite something to begin with. Burn the Quarians!), I have to correct something:
Tresher Maws do not just live on Tuchanka. They might come from there originally, but they are all across the galaxy by now.
Yes, and isn't that just nonsense? I think I mentioned it before, but the species has no purpose, doesn't fill an evolutionary niche or makes any sense at all. They purely exist because BioWare needed a monster to fight and then re-used it all over the galaxy.
As much as I agree with what you say (which is quite something to begin with. Burn the Quarians!), I have to correct something:
Tresher Maws do not just live on Tuchanka. They might come from there originally, but they are all across the galaxy by now.
Why would I betray and genocide the loyal allies that just saved my life by destroying a Reaper for me, nevermind in favour of some soulless toasters with questionable fair weather loyalties who are actually worth less to the war effort? Only an idiot or a psychopath would do something like that that.
Kalros only lives on Tuchanka. Even if we assume that smaller and weaker maws can take on destroyers in a similar situation (which we have no evidence of), the Reaper had to be handed the idiot ball to not just take off a few hundred meters above the ground and laser the thing to death anyway. Idiot ball notwithstanding had there been a single other Reaper of the hundred plus thousand that exist there, the whole plan would have failed.
The Reapers only lose because they seem to be trying as hard as possible to do so.
Yes, and isn't that just nonsense? I think I mentioned it before, but the species has no purpose, doesn't fill an evolutionary niche or makes any sense at all. They purely exist because BioWare needed a monster to fight and then re-used it all over the galaxy.
Kalros only lives on Tuchanka. Even if we assume that smaller and weaker maws can take on destroyers in a similar situation (which we have no evidence of), the Reaper had to be handed the idiot ball to not just take off a few hundred meters above the ground and laser the thing to death anyway. Idiot ball notwithstanding had there been a single other Reaper of the hundred plus thousand that exist there, the whole plan would have failed.
The Reapers only lose because they seem to be trying as hard as possible to do so.
Why would I betray and genocide the loyal allies that just saved my life by destroying a Reaper for me, nevermind in favour of some soulless toasters with questionable fair weather loyalties who are actually worth less to the war effort? Only an idiot or a psychopath would do something like that that.
Kalros only lives on Tuchanka. Even if we assume that smaller and weaker maws can take on destroyers in a similar situation (which we have no evidence of), the Reaper had to be handed the idiot ball to not just take off a few hundred meters above the ground and laser the thing to death anyway. Idiot ball notwithstanding had there been a single other Reaper of the hundred plus thousand that exist there, the whole plan would have failed.
The Reapers only lose because they seem to be trying as hard as possible to do so.
Maybe the Reaper are literally too old for this ****.
How about implementing entertaining side quests this time? ME3 was the worst offender with its fetch quests (scan a planet, get invisible war assets) How exciting!
ME3 has the best side quests of the series, though. They are just so good people don't think of them as side quests.
The fetch quests, on the other hand, were far worse in ME1, where you actually had to waste time landing on planets and driving around for map icons, as opposed to taking a minute or two to ping a system for quest items.
The fetch quests, on the other hand, were far worse in ME1, where you actually had to waste time landing on planets and driving around for map icons, as opposed to taking a minute or two to ping a system for quest items.
But ME1 collection quest were not relevant to the outcome of the story. and there were only five of them with about two dozen other UNC misson. ME3 on the other only had eight side quests plus six N7 missons made from recycled multiplayer maps with more than thirty fetch quests. Add to that the bloody annoying galaxy map scanning system and I'd say I spend more time in ME3 flying in my minature normandy whereas ME1's uncharted world useally took between 5-15 minutes to complete.
This chart gives good as to how ME3 went completely out of proportion with fetch quest.
Shoe horned romances.
SJW characters for the sake of SJW characters.
Dragon Age 2 & 3 style fetch quests.
Mass Effect 3 'overhearing quests' quests.
But ME1 collection quest were not relevant to the outcome of the story. and there were only five of them with about two dozen other UNC misson. ME3 on the other only had eight side quests plus six N7 missons made from recycled multiplayer maps with more than thirty fetch quests. Add to that the bloody annoying galaxy map scanning system and I'd say I spend more time in ME3 flying in my minature normandy whereas ME1's uncharted world useally took between 5-15 minutes to complete.
This chart gives good as to how ME3 went completely out of proportion with fetch quest.
I am not 100% sure if this graphic is objective, but okay. The ME3 singleplayer doesn't contain MP missions and declaring them as such just because they use a similiar map is not fair to the game. Those were proper side missions that relied mostly on combat instead of talking. We had those in ME2, too. Remember the cache with the 3 YMIR mechs? The missile base on the moon, filled with Batarians?
You are actually saying you needed more time to complete the ME3 fetch quests as opposed to the ME1 exploration collection nonsense? Are you kidding me? Take the Normandy, jump, enter system, fly to planet, ping, scan, done. Takes a minute, tops. Whereas finding all of Matriarch Dilinaga's Writings took for-freaking-ever. Actually, ME1 didn't have any fetch quests. Just some very tedious collections. I can't think of an actual ME1 fetch quest.
What's the point of making a distinction between hubworld side mission and other kinds of side missons?
But ME1 collection quest were not relevant to the outcome of the story. and there were only five of them with about two dozen other UNC misson. ME3 on the other only had eight side quests plus six N7 missons made from recycled multiplayer maps with more than thirty fetch quests. Add to that the bloody annoying galaxy map scanning system and I'd say I spend more time in ME3 flying in my minature normandy whereas ME1's uncharted world useally took between 5-15 minutes to complete.
This chart gives good as to how ME3 went completely out of proportion with fetch quest.
If I'm reading that right, this really isn't the best metric to use. Mass Effect according to this has only 5 fetch quests, but the amount of time spent on each quest is substantially larger. Most of my more bloated Mass Effect 1 play throughs were quite often a result of this.
Where is the bar for drive to a copy-pasted bunker to kill five generic dudes for Mass Effect 1?
If I'm reading that right, this really isn't the best metric to use. Mass Effect according to this has only 5 fetch quests, but the amount of time spent on each quest is substantially larger. Most of my more bloated Mass Effect 1 play throughs were quite often a result of this.
Now I have this image of Harbinger as the
iraqireaper information minister in my head spouting one liners.
I willl be honest, I would have loved that with a fiery passion and unquestioning dedication.
Harbinger: Once again that traitor Shepard has destroyed an invaluable cultural artifact on Tuchanka, a one-kind piece of engineering genius, despite the valiant efforts of a symphathetic Reaper guard. How long will this False Alliance protect this genocidal maniac who seems to loath architecture.
ME3 has the best side quests of the series, though. They are just so good people don't think of them as side quests.
The fetch quests, on the other hand, were far worse in ME1, where you actually had to waste time landing on planets and driving around for map icons, as opposed to taking a minute or two to ping a system for quest items.
You know, that ME3 argument is what always kills me. Side quests get criticism because they are too short and inconsequential. Expand them and make them relevant to the story and its narrative themes. Well, now they just aren't side quests anymore, so why are there so few sidequests.
But ME1 collection quest were not relevant to the outcome of the story. and there were only five of them with about two dozen other UNC misson. ME3 on the other only had eight side quests plus six N7 missons made from recycled multiplayer maps with more than thirty fetch quests. Add to that the bloody annoying galaxy map scanning system and I'd say I spend more time in ME3 flying in my minature normandy whereas ME1's uncharted world useally took between 5-15 minutes to complete.
This chart gives good as to how ME3 went completely out of proportion with fetch quest.
I am genuinly curios what are these hub world quests on Virmire. I am almost certain this is meant to refer to Ferros, which is kind of amusing, since those sidequests are essentially pure fetch quests.
As has already been pointed out, the division in this chart is really questionable. Not just the weird grouping of fetch quests and ignoring how they functioned differently in those games. This chart seems to have a very broad definition of side quests, so all the ME1 missions where you land on the planet, go to a bunker, get a text or a call from Admiral Hackett are counted as sidequests of similar weight than the extremely resource heavy sidequests in ME3, ignoring the fact that doing the sidequests in ME3 probably took more time than the group in ME1. The hub world quests I am not touching on, as I am utterly confused what counts as what since most hub world quests in ME1 and ME2 were fetch quests by this logic, yet even if you get it in a similar manner in ME3, they are counted as fetch quests.
To be honest, this chart makes my head hurt.
There's no way this is right. Mass effect had an obscene number of fetch quests - it was DAI before we had a DAI.
I assume you mean Mass Effect 1 in this, where I agree completely. Which is something that always confused me. I know the ME and DA teams are different, but the ME team basically already did that and came to the conclusion it didn't work, moving away from it in ME2/3. Yet the DAI team completely ignored that lesson from developers in their own company.
But ME1 collection quest were not relevant to the outcome of the story. and there were only five of them with about two dozen other UNC misson. ME3 on the other only had eight side quests plus six N7 missons made from recycled multiplayer maps with more than thirty fetch quests. Add to that the bloody annoying galaxy map scanning system and I'd say I spend more time in ME3 flying in my minature normandy whereas ME1's uncharted world useally took between 5-15 minutes to complete.
This chart gives good as to how ME3 went completely out of proportion with fetch quest.
The definitions are so arbitrary and the categorization are so selective that it's a laughable attempt to produce stats to fit a theory rather than suiting a theory around facts. Aside from being outright wrong in some cases (like the ME1 fetch quest count), the categories themselves are nonsensical and arbitrary due to the exceptional overlap. A number of UNC missions were fetch quests. He refuses to count the ME3 MP missions as side quests because he doesn't like them. Most hub world quests in all the games were fest-quest structured. He honestly tries to call most of the ME2 recruitment missions 'plot quests' even though not only did many of them were outright optional.
That chart was **** years ago, and it's not gotten any better since then.
It's pretty obvious that chart was more about axe grinding than an actual analysis of the games.
It's pretty obvious that chart was more about axe grinding than an actual analysis of the games.
But it's got, like, graphs and ****. It must be valid!
If I'm reading that right, this really isn't the best metric to use. Mass Effect according to this has only 5 fetch quests, but the amount of time spent on each quest is substantially larger. Most of my more bloated Mass Effect 1 play throughs were quite often a result of this.
You got a like from me, OP. Great ideas!
To me, a fetch quest is more a game mechanic than a part of the story. Something like a quest giver buying pelts and sending you out to kill wolves for their pelts. Hand over the pelts, earn money, done. No story behind it. It doesn't breathe life into the world, it doesn't contribute to story or character development, it's all about the reward. Some exp, some money, maybe some gear.
Feros had a few side missions (clear out Geth, turn on water valves, kill alpha varren, find a power cell) but I wouldn't really see them as fetch quests. They tie directly into the main mission and the story, they aren't about random items you don't actually fetch anything in 75% of the cases. 
Oh okay, later on you actually fetch Gavin's data for him... which helps you in ME3.
DA:I had an annoying fetch quest in the Dalish camp: Deliver herbs, pelts and other resources. They don't care where or how you got them, they just want them and in exchange you get some minor rewards. It helps you to win their trust but... I don't know. That's basically faction grinding on top of a fetch quest. -.-
ME1 wasn't all that bad. Except for the tedious collections all missions had a backstory, cutscenes, dialogue of some kind... that's a bit more than I'd expect from a fetch quest. Sure, they weren't epic adventures... but I don't think they were all that bad.
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