841 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Well, if you're advocating yanking all of this stuff and the mining too, thus taking the galaxy map down to a very few locations like KotOR's, I can see it. But if we're going to have a galaxy map with lots of planets, I think we need to be able to land on more than a few of them.

 

My thought is less on 'yanking' and more on 'guiding the player to them.'

 

There's two main parts- letting the player uncover them, and then helping the player find them easily once it's 'found.' ME1's use of the main missions to find sidequests is an example of the first- but ME3's use of the galaxy map was a (better) example of the later.

 

In ME2, most of the N7 missions were only found if you puttered out to the solar system first, and most systems were empty trash unless you were looking for mining. Going mission hunting was not only a roll of the dice of finding something, but a loss of credits (which were always in short supply for upgrades) if you didn't. The ME3 model of system exploration was much better IMO- not only did you generally know which system in a cluster you were going to for a mission, but every system had something of value- war assets to ping, or fuel, and so on.

[Dean_the_Young]

I just think an RPG has to be honest about its roots: a large group of grave robbers taking odd jobs for personal wealth and the love of murder. 

 

 

Exile, please.

 

Most good players will pass up the reward and do it just for the love of murder.

[Seraphim24]

Encounters were "complictated"? LOL. Yes, you saw how complicated they were in that same building on the UCWs. The citadel fight was a real confusing mess of press forward, mash the trigger and let frictionless materials and SPECTRE weapons solve your problems. The enemy AI that lives to charge you blindly and then circle strafe also made me feel like those fights were really complex. Toss in that since the core story mission fights were half in the MAKO and those were corridor fights with the moon patrol buggy your whole assertion is wrong.

You roll out overkill as not overpowered? In a game where the only thing limiting your ability to go on insane murder sprees was that your gun overheats and overkill, coupled with frictionless materials, allows you to by pass that mechanism. The only thing that limited overkill was your squad AI who were useless. CS by contrast is a low damage knockdown power and is hardly an instant win or kill on sight button.

Path finding BG was bad if you were in in a city with one street. It was bad when you were in BG1 and you were in a mostly open wilderness zone. It wasn't because of complexity of diddly any complexity, god help us Firewine Bridge, just made the path finding even worse and explosed how craptatsic it was.

 
Well, the encounters were more complicated than in 2 and 3, yes. If you compare the boss fight, Mass Effect 1 is more complex than that. If you compare for example the final fight against Saren he has... 4-5 moves? The ultra shield, the gat attack, the missles, the spider man mimic. ME2 guy just has a giant eye beam. ME3 isn't anything.
 
I do not recall the fights in 2 and 3 well, for I pressed the amazing button and they do not become issues anymore.
 
Firewine Bridge was not fun, but that was one zone, the rest of the southern Map was good except one of 2nd to furthest west forest zones and one empty rock zone.
 
Cloakwood, campaign great, Nashkel campaign great (outside level 1 of mines).
 

So good design is the result of developers not being able to program their AI correctly? Well, I guess points for a creative argument. That's not one I hear often, I will admit. I could do with less of that good game design, though. If I die in an encounter, it should be in spite of the Squad AI, not because of it.

I am repeating myself but the AI was not functioning at times due to more complicated encounters, whereas ME2 and 3 had simpler encounters and thus less potential for issues with AI.
 

Please explain how the same 10 maps repeated plus a few specially-made corridors for story missions

 
I do not explain this because it is not true.
 

The characters in ME1 were also significantly better than in 2 and 3 but I guess this would be somewhat outside the scope of this topic.

[Dashen Thomas]

I usually love the lore in games but Dragon Age Inquisition did its best trying to discourage me reading it. The terrible font choice, small size of text and the fact you had to scroll huge walls of text in a small box made it practically impossible to stay invested in reading lore.

In general I think ME1 had the best and most functional UI that worked perfectly with consoles in mind. Back in those days developers and writers also knew what information was essential and focused on that. The unfortunate anti-pattern in many current gen games is to design it like PC setting, having a big screen just in front of your face and just dump huge load of text there. No wonder people start to ignore back stories and lore. It is just bad UI design that seems to become more and more common.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I usually love the lore in games but Dragon Age Inquisition did its best trying to discourage me reading it. The terrible font choice, small size of text and the fact you had to scroll huge walls of text in a small box made it practically impossible to stay invested in reading lore.

In general I think ME1 had the best and most functional UI that worked perfectly with consoles in mind. Back in those days developers and writers also knew what information was essential and focused on that. The unfortunate anti-pattern in many current gen games is to design it like PC setting, having a big screen just in front of your face and just dump huge load of text there. No wonder people start to ignore back stories and lore. It is just bad UI design that seems to become more and more common.

 

ME1 was a console exclusive game first before it was brought to PC.

[Il Divo]

 

I am repeating myself but the AI was not functioning at times due to more complicated encounters, whereas ME2 and 3 had simpler encounters and thus less potential for issues with AI.

 

 

Let's have a comparison. XCOM: Enemy Unknown. I don't consider myself amazing at the game and Classic Difficulty offers a good challenge. The difference from Mass Effect is that squad-mates always perform according to my specifications. I tell somebody to shoot, he shoots. I tell somebody to move to X, and he moves to X.

 

That's the difference between a (more) complicated encounter and  bad game design. In the former, the computer is utilizing his tools to their best ability. In the latter, my tools don't even work correctly. I really don't think you're offering a great defense of Mass Effect here. Not one a game developer should take seriously, at any rate. 

[Seraphim24]

Let's have a comparison. XCOM: Enemy Unknown. I don't consider myself amazing at the game and Classic Difficulty offers a good challenge. The difference from Mass Effect is that squad-mates always perform according to my specifications. I tell somebody to shoot, he shoots. I tell somebody to move to X, and he moves to X.

 

That's the difference between a (more) complicated encounter and your ultimately bad game design. In the former, the computer is utilizing his tools to their best ability. In the latter, my tools don't even work correctly. I really don't think you're offering a great defense of Mass Effect here. Not one a game developer should take seriously, at any rate. 

 

XCOM Enemy Unknown is basically Valkyria Chronicles.

VC1 is excellent

ME1 is pretty good

ME2/3 are ok/average

 

2/3 attempt less, degree difficulty lower so even work better, not always better. There is not 1 fight like Thorian in 2/3.

[Torgette]

I usually love the lore in games but Dragon Age Inquisition did its best trying to discourage me reading it. The terrible font choice, small size of text and the fact you had to scroll huge walls of text in a small box made it practically impossible to stay invested in reading lore.

In general I think ME1 had the best and most functional UI that worked perfectly with consoles in mind. Back in those days developers and writers also knew what information was essential and focused on that. The unfortunate anti-pattern in many current gen games is to design it like PC setting, having a big screen just in front of your face and just dump huge load of text there. No wonder people start to ignore back stories and lore. It is just bad UI design that seems to become more and more common.

 
Best subtitles in the industry is Final Fantasy's, white bold text with black outline.
 

Spoiler

in comparison, DAI:

Spoiler

and ME3:

Spoiler

[AlanC9]

 
There is not 1 fight like Thorian in 2/3.

You mean there aren't any long, boring, repetitive slogs? I have to disagree; I think the later games had some sequences that were every bit as bad.

[Il Divo]

XCOM Enemy Unknown is basically Valkyria Chronicles.

VC1 is excellent

ME1 is pretty good

ME2/3 are ok/average

 

2/3 attempt less, degree difficulty lower so even work better, not always better. There is not 1 fight like Thorian in 2/3.

 

So you're not going to address your lackluster argument? 

[Sidney]

Well, the encounters were more complicated than in 2 and 3, yes. If you compare the boss fight, Mass Effect 1 is more complex than that. If you compare for example the final fight against Saren he has... 4-5 moves? The ultra shield, the gat attack, the missles, the spider man mimic. ME2 guy just has a giant eye beam. ME3 isn't anything.
 
I do not recall the fights in 2 and 3 well, for I pressed the amazing button and they do not become issues anymore.
 
Firewine Bridge was not fun, but that was one zone, the rest of the southern Map was good except one of 2nd to furthest west forest zones and one empty rock zone.
 
Cloakwood, campaign great, Nashkel campaign great (outside level 1 of mines).
 

I am repeating myself but the AI was not functioning at times due to more complicated encounters, whereas ME2 and 3 had simpler encounters and thus less potential for issues with AI.
 

 
I do not explain this because it is not true.
 
The characters in ME1 were also significantly better than 2 and 3 but I guess this would be somewhat outside the scope of this topic.

I think when you are defending the game using electro-frog you have lost the rest of humanity. Saren fight was a garbage boss fight. You also narrowly define e fight as being between you and the Reaper larva in 2 when it was you versus reaper larva and the collectors who were arriving with a different mix of troop types and on platforms from different angles that forced you to adjust your battle plan. Electro-frog was just a making him stupid fast to make him feel tough the Me2 end fight was in terms of squad management, actual tactics much much better than the frog.

None of this even begins to address the way fights went. In ME1 you enter a building and the enemy charged you, they really didn't have another move in most cases. On the citadel the bad guys basically ran at you and thanks to my SPECTRE shotgun, frictionless materials and tek armor I just walked that entire fight. . The foes in ME2/3 used cover, moved with some competence. On the final base rather than stupidly walking up to you the collectors used a variety of cover, arrived by flight and platform. You were put on a timer when you tossed someone into the vents,, you were restricted in movement in the seeker swarm room. All of that is light years ahead of ME1s pathetically incompetent and simple combat.

[Ahglock]

-Fix the journal, its downright broken in ME3 compared to the sequels.
-Please have hotkeys for weapon switching in the same way F1-F4 worked in ME1.
-Functional UI keyboard shortcuts.
-Tune down tech and biotic explosions just a bit.

If those are nailed its off to a good start.

I agree with all of those but id say change biotic tech explosions. Every combo exploding is bad for biotics. Warp+x explodes per me2. Throw+x should be x2 force throw with no explosion. If x lifted target its x4. Singularity on someone lifted should do some centrifugal force spin and throw maybe magnify the effect of warps lasting effect if it hits someone still effected by warp etc. explosion for pretty much everything but it's biotic/fire/freeze/tech is just lazy. Have a variety of combos and things that don't combo.

[Sartoz]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

"- PC ALWAYS has the equipment you've selected during cutscenes. No predator gun swaps this time."

 

Huston, we have a problem!

 

Pre-rendered cut-scenes cannot anticipate chosen weapons or equipement, before the scene is triggered to play. Cut scenes are not in-game rendered graphic animations.

 

Sorry to disappoint but no-way-Jose!

 

And no, to multiple cut-scene libraries to handle all the variations.... costly prohibitive, it would be.

[Fixers0]

I think when you are defending the game using electro-frog you have lost the rest of humanity. Saren fight was a garbage boss fight. You also narrowly define e fight as being between you and the Reaper larva in 2 when it was you versus reaper larva and the collectors who were arriving with a different mix of troop types and on platforms from different angles that forced you to adjust your battle plan. Electro-frog was just a making him stupid fast to make him feel tough the Me2 end fight was in terms of squad management, actual tactics much much better than the frog.

 

Wait, Do you fight Collectors while taking on baby-Arnold, I've never noticed, same for the "different mix of troop types" All Collector bugs seem pretty much the same to me.

 

 

None of this even begins to address the way fights went. In ME1 you enter a building and the enemy charged you, they really didn't have another move in most cases. On the citadel the bad guys basically ran at you and thanks to my SPECTRE shotgun, frictionless materials and tek armor I just walked that entire fight. . The foes in ME2/3 used cover, moved with some competence. On the final base rather than stupidly walking up to you the collectors used a variety of cover, arrived by flight and platform. You were put on a timer when you tossed someone into the vents,, you were restricted in movement in the seeker swarm room. All of that is light years ahead of ME1s pathetically incompetent and simple combat.

 

Say when was the last time the AI used Throw to knock you down, Stasis to immobaeize you, Sabotage to overheat your weapons, Overload to take out your shields, Damping to shut off your abilities, Medi-gel to heal themselfs, and assasinate to one shot you should get out of cover a little to often? That's right it was Mass Effect 1, Unfortunantly Bioware thought throwing hordes of ill-equiped mooks at you backed up by over the top supermen  would be easier for the masses to handle than creating challanging combat against equally footed opponents.

[Ahglock]

Fixers0 and Sidney I think you are both right. ME1 had issues. Overpowered gear for example. Not a good enemy mix. The krogan just charging you is fine, but those citadel levels needed some mooks to provide cover fire for the krogans.

Me2-3 had issues in that enemies should use a fuller array of powers against you. Sure make them miss when arcing powers around cover as its a cover based shooter, but if you are out of cover your shields are down and get hit by a lift suck it up. You just got lifted and maybe thrown into orbit afterwards. Have singularities on the field staggering you or blocking corridors. Maybe every power players have access to would be too much ME1 didn't use them all, like biotic charge might be too much. But a wider range for sure should be there.

[Batarian Master Race]

                                                                               <<<<<<<<<<()>>>>>>>>>>

 

"- PC ALWAYS has the equipment you've selected during cutscenes. No predator gun swaps this time."

 

Huston, we have a problem!

 

Pre-rendered cut-scenes cannot anticipate chosen weapons or equipement, before the scene is triggered to play. Cut scenes are not in-game rendered graphic animations.

 

Sorry to disappoint but no-way-Jose!

 

And no, to multiple cut-scene libraries to handle all the variations.... costly prohibitive, it would be.

 

How does a pre-rendered cutscene allow for customized characters?

[von uber]

How does a pre-rendered cutscene allow for customized characters?

How does a pre rendered cut scene allow you to free cam around it?

[RoboticWater]

How does a pre-rendered cutscene allow for customized characters?

Not pre-rendered, pre-baked. The animations play out in engine, but they're pre-made (likely with mo-cap) only with certain weapons in mind.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Not pre-rendered, pre-baked. The animations play out in engine, but they're pre-made (likely with mo-cap) only with certain weapons in mind.

 

Almost. They are pre-baked but use the customized characters and their gear. The animation for each weapon type is the same, so it shouldn't matter what kind of pistol I am using. There's no need to switch out my Paladin with a Predator, nor is there any reason to replace my PPR with an Avenger. If the game can correctly display my equipped armor, then it can display the equipped weapon, too.

 

Worst case: BioWare would have to create an animation for each weapon type, except perhaps for sniper rifles which don't really work all that well in the context of most cutscenes. Since we always have at least two weapons equipped, this should work nicely.

 

Alternatively one could use an Omniblade as cutscene weapon, similiar to the murder knife in DA.

[themikefest]

Wait, Do you fight Collectors while taking on baby-Arnold, I've never noticed, same for the "different mix of troop types" All Collector bugs seem pretty much the same to me.

Yes you do

 

https://youtu.be/EzIB2Jvcn_s?t=7m

[AlanC9]

Almost. They are pre-baked but use the customized characters and their gear. The animation for each weapon type is the same, so it shouldn't matter what kind of pistol I am using.
 

What if you're not carrying a pistol at all?

[dreamgazer]

Wait.

(reads back)

We're using the Thorian battle as a benchmark for quality?

[DaemionMoadrin]

What if you're not carrying a pistol at all?

 

Already answered that in my post.

 

Almost. They are pre-baked but use the customized characters and their gear. The animation for each weapon type is the same, so it shouldn't matter what kind of pistol I am using. There's no need to switch out my Paladin with a Predator, nor is there any reason to replace my PPR with an Avenger. If the game can correctly display my equipped armor, then it can display the equipped weapon, too.

 

Worst case: BioWare would have to create an animation for each weapon type, except perhaps for sniper rifles which don't really work all that well in the context of most cutscenes. Since we always have at least two weapons equipped, this should work nicely.

 

Alternatively one could use an Omniblade as cutscene weapon, similiar to the murder knife in DA.

[AlanC9]

OK, but now we've got a lot of animations. I can see this failing an ROI check pretty easily.

[DaemionMoadrin]

OK, but now we've got a lot of animations. I can see this failing an ROI check pretty easily.

 

Then I have to wonder how other games do it.

 

Actually, you'd only have to change parts of the animation.