14 réponses à ce sujet

[JasonPogo]

So as many of you know ME3 and to a lesser extent ME2 ripped away our ability to role play Shepard how we wanted them to be and gave us their version with auto dialogue and no choice whatsoever in the story.  So yes I hope this new game will bring back the RP of this RPG...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

All Mass Effect games did this, not just ME3. 

 

I agree though, I want the protagonist to be ours like Bioware promises the protagonists to be.

[Mr Plow]

role playing....can we still do that?!

[Valkyrja]

So as many of you know ME3 and to a lesser extent ME2 ripped away our ability to role play Shepard how we wanted them to be and gave us their version with auto dialogue and no choice whatsoever in the story. So yes I hope this new game will bring back the RP of this RPG...

 
Now this just ain't so.

[BabyPuncher]

All Mass Effect games did this, not just ME3. 

 

I agree though, I want the protagonist to be ours like Bioware promises the protagonists to be.

 

It's long past time for players to realize that developers should not be taken all that seriously when they say that.

 

The inescapable reality is that games have one story. One plot. One villian. One set of characters and conflicts. One. Not millions that are individually tailor-made for each and every player.

[SpunkyMonkey]

Race, crouching, sex possibilities etc. - all that stuff is irrelevant to me compared to this!

 

ME1 is by far and away my fave of the series, and one of the main reasons I detested the series by ME3 was because of how detatched I felt from it in a RP sense.

 

I really, really hope Bioware start being the Bioware of old again, and creating RP apsects which entice and absorb, as opposed to the joke RP aspects we saw by ME3's arrival.

 

Even if it's all just an illusion designed to con us into thinking we've a choice, at least indulge us with that. Because ME1 & DA:O did so and noth were amazing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's long past time for players to realize that developers should not be taken all that seriously when they say that.

 

The inescapable reality is that games have one story. One plot. One villian. One set of characters and conflicts. One. Not millions tailor made for each and every player.

Then developers need to stop lying and false advertising. 

[Han Shot First]

It's long past time for players to realize that developers should not be taken all that seriously when they say that.

 

The inescapable reality is that games have one story. One plot. One villian. One set of characters and conflicts. One. Not millions tailor made for each and every player.

 

I'm thankful for that as well.

 

The alternative is a blank slate protagonist with no backstory or set personality traits, all of which would serve to make that protagonist rather boring. Elder Scrolls protagonists are a great example of this. They are nothing more than avatars for the player and as such are about as interesting as watching paint dry.

[WildOrchid]

Oh, auto-dialogue..... how much i hated it.

 

I understand it on characters with set personality like Geralt but customizable protagonists? Just no.

[Linkenski]

All Mass Effect games did this, not just ME3. 

 

I agree though, I want the protagonist to be ours like Bioware promises the protagonists to be.

I disagree with this. ME3 definitely took away our options to RP in a more extreme way than the previous games did.

 

I think what you're referring to is how a story needs to have certain beats in order to work and that our Shepards were all forced down on some specific and linear paths on occasions. You cannot change that. I know a lot of people want it to be like those dungeons and dragons games but one thing is that it's impossible with so much spoken dialogue and 3D cutscenes and mocap animations etc. but another thing is that it's really hard to write a good story that has a bazillion diferent outcomes and every outcome is a valid plot.

 

I think making a good plot with branching paths to the actual plot is just what we need and then there are the minor variations like who we romance, what kind of person our character is and stuff like that on the side of where we actually end up going within the plot.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I disagree with this. ME3 definitely took away our options to RP in a more extreme way than the previous games did.

 

I think what you're referring to is how a story needs to have certain beats in order to work and that our Shepards were all forced down on some specific and linear paths on occasions. You cannot change that. I know a lot of people want it to be like those dungeons and dragons games but one thing is that it's impossible with so much spoken dialogue and 3D cutscenes and mocap animations etc. but another thing is that it's really hard to write a good story that has a bazillion diferent outcomes and every outcome is a valid plot.

 

I think making a good plot with branching paths to the actual plot is just what we need and then there are the minor variations like who we romance, what kind of person our character is and stuff like that on the side of where we actually end up going within the plot.

Yes, ME3 was the worst offender with this, but ME1 and ME2 were also guilty of this. 

 

No, I'm talking about how Bioware assumes how the player is going to have Shepard act so don't leave it up to you. I get that for the story to proceed they have to, but they've done it with stuff which doesn't affect the story. 

[Uccio]

It's long past time for players to realize that developers should not be taken all that seriously when they say that.

 

The inescapable reality is that games have one story. One plot. One villian. One set of characters and conflicts. One. Not millions that are individually tailor-made for each and every player.

 

Wait for the AI, then you will get all those games. It will be glorious!

[Linkenski]

Yes, ME3 was the worst offender with this, but ME1 and ME2 were also guilty of this. 

 

No, I'm talking about how Bioware assumes how the player is going to have Shepard act so don't leave it up to you. I get that for the story to proceed they have to, but they've done it with stuff which doesn't affect the story. 

I know what you mean, but outside of maybe one or two dialogue in ME1 and ME2 nothing bothered me as much as over-emotional shepard being mad at Joker in ME3. I think Shepard's rather stiff way of emoting in the first two games helped to make those moments less jarring for me. In ME3 every emotion he has has to be turned up to 11 where it's just melodramatic.

[saladinbob]

I disagree with this. ME3 definitely took away our options to RP in a more extreme way than the previous games did.

 

I think what you're referring to is how a story needs to have certain beats in order to work and that our Shepards were all forced down on some specific and linear paths on occasions. You cannot change that. I know a lot of people want it to be like those dungeons and dragons games but one thing is that it's impossible with so much spoken dialogue and 3D cutscenes and mocap animations etc. but another thing is that it's really hard to write a good story that has a bazillion diferent outcomes and every outcome is a valid plot.

 

I think making a good plot with branching paths to the actual plot is just what we need and then there are the minor variations like who we romance, what kind of person our character is and stuff like that on the side of where we actually end up going within the plot.

 

In some respects ME3 had to. It wouldn't have made any sense in keeping with the plot if you're wondering around the galaxy like a spare part doing your own thing while Earth is occupied by the Reapers. In ME1 and ME2 you where assembling a team to take on a specific mission (indirectly in the first game, directly in the second) so the plot allowed for more freedom of choice.

 

The new game is meant to be a return to that. I think where ME3 fell down was in the way you gathered resources for the Crucible and the final attack for the liberation of Earth. The focus shifted to the Multiplayer and away from the story which I think was a mistake.

 

As I understand it, the new game is about extending your power base in the Helius Cluster. If that's written in to the narrative of the game more with story based missions rather than trying to force people in to multiplayer it will open up more options for role playing without having a blank slate of a protagonist.

[Kappa Neko]

I'm thankful for that as well.

 

The alternative is a blank slate protagonist with no backstory or set personality traits, all of which would serve to make that protagonist rather boring. Elder Scrolls protagonists are a great example of this. They are nothing more than avatars for the player and as such are about as interesting as watching paint dry.

While I completely agree and enjoy a (semi-)set character a lot more than full-blown blank slate avatars, I am very fond of my Skyrim wood elf. It actually took me completely by surprise how much I grew to love her (and the game, only got into it this year). Actually much more than my inquisitor (or the warden).

Which makes me wonder if the actual problem with DAI (read: my problem with it) is that the inquisitor is a blank slate but at the same time follows a narrative that, in my opinion, desperately needed some kind of on-screen characterization. In Skyrim you can be anything, in DAI you cannot. So, how much you can roleplay the inquisitor is actually restricted by the story. Hence five different versions of neutral-pleasant on the conversation wheel. You cannot play a psychopath because that would have ruined the entire premise of the game. It was borderline ridiculous what renegade Shep could get away with in the military. So part of me appreciates keeping the PC in line with their function in the game.

However, either make the PC a character you can REALLY play any way you want like in Skyrim or do a proper set character like in The Witcher. For Bioware games I much much prefer the Shepard/Hawke approach. Not 100% set, so it gives you some room to make choices that shape "your" character, but with enough pre-defined drama to get you invested. I think it works best for emotional character-driven storylines like Bioware does. You cannot do character-driven right when the hero has no personality, imo. Blank slate is great when there is not too much story, like in a sandbox game. Such games are great for what they are, but they lack emotion. You sure aren't getting them from your own character. Or the generic NPCs you interact with. I noticed how I got REALLY emotionally involved with the Skyrim Dawnguard DLC because it told a very personal family story. I got SO fond of Serana, it was ridiculous. Got Bioware feels from that DLC! So a game can pull your heart strings even if your character is a blank slate. BUT the whole time I kept thinking that if it had cutscenes and an interesting PC bonding with her, it would haven been even more epic.

 

I am a firm supporter of characters with a personality. What's the point of trying to make my inquisitor interesting by headcanon when there is no personality on screen? I can invent the greatest stuff for my character but that doesn't help with the utterly boring in-game presentation. I really tried but there was a huge gulf between what I wanted the character to be like and what the game gave me.

 

Set characters are always a gamble, of course. That's the downside. If you don't like the protagonist's personality, you have a problem. How big a problem it is for your enjoyment, is up to you. I don't like Geralt but I still enjoyed The Witcher 2 very much. Would I have preferred a blank slate instead? I don't know, probably not.

 

That's my personal preference, of course. I get why others prefer blank slates for maximum headcanon fun. It's just not something that works for me in Bioware games. At all.