567 réponses à ce sujet

[Lunch Box1912]

How do you figure that? Quite honestly I think the Ark theory makes a lot of sense. Plus it's really the only way ME:A can sidestep the endings in a believable way besides just blatantly ignoring them.

 

The indoctrination theory has never made sense; People that believe it does are just ignoring blatant evidence. On two separate occasions Vendetta points out that Shepard is not indoctrinated, once on Thessia and again in TIM's office. Not to mention the star child AI at the end says about TIM, "he could never control us because we already controlled him."

 

Also, the IT is a wayyyy worse ending. It doesn't resolve anything. Shepard is just indoctrinated? Yeah, real great improvement  .

That's your opinion sir.

[Monica21]

Good right?

 

 

Indoctrination Theory.... IT'S ALIVE!!!

 

*evil laugh*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

How do you figure that? Quite honestly I think the Ark theory makes a lot of sense. Plus it's really the only way ME:A can sidestep the endings in a believable way besides just blatantly ignoring them.

The Ark Theory breaks the lore several times, from us suddenly having intergalactic capabilities where the lore states we do not to going against the story by suddenly having a second, even more complex project despite all resources and the top minds going to the Crucible project which is already straining the galaxy's infrastructure to the point of collapse so if the Ark Theory is true, we doomed the Milky Way even if we defeat the Reapers. 

 

The indoctrination theory has never made sense; People that believe it does are just ignoring blatant evidence. On two separate occasions Vendetta points out that Shepard is not indoctrinated, once on Thessia and again in TIM's office. Not to mention the star child AI at the end says about TIM, "he could never control us because we already controlled him."

 

Also, the IT is a wayyyy worse ending. It doesn't resolve anything. Shepard is just indoctrinated? Yeah, real great improvement  .

It has holes, I agree. Though the version I heard at least has it that the indoctrination doesn't actually happen until the beam run. Which kind of makes sense since we are indoctrinated at least for a moment when we are forced to shoot Anderson. And IT goes with the assumption that the Catalyst is lying to you. 

 

But at least IT just throws the endings away in an attempt to make them unique rather than throwing the lore, the galaxy, and almost all the characters away like the Ark Theory does. 

[HydroFlame20]

There is no IT. There is no breathing Shepard (cause that only happens for one of 4 endings).

Do we actually have to go through this again?

I agree lol.

[Monica21]

There is no IT. There is no breathing Shepard (cause that only happens for one of 4 endings).

 

Well, that's just silly. There is a breathing Shepard because he didn't have to sacrifice himself in Destroy. Just because it's one of four endings doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's how choices work. Kind of like if I go out tomorrow and buy a new car, then I have a new car. If I decide not to, then I don't have a new car. Choices.

[dfjdejulio]

The Ark Theory breaks the lore several times, from us suddenly having intergalactic capabilities where the lore states we do not to going against the story by suddenly having a second, even more complex project despite all resources and the top minds going to the Crucible project which is already straining the galaxy's infrastructure to the point of collapse so if the Ark Theory is true, we doomed the Milky Way even if we defeat the Reapers. 

 

I don't think it has the problems you describe unless you're making assumptions that I'm not making.

 

We don't have intergalactic capabilities of the sort that are useful for a civilization, but you don't need them for the ark theory to work just fine.  It's okay if the trip takes 30,000 years (given stasis), because we have no expectation of ever making a return trip or talking to the folks back home.  You could do it with tech that's already available.

 

And if the way you do it is to basically strap thrusters on a mining station similar to Omega, one that you already have... I think it could be way, way less resource-intensive than the Lazarus project was.

[Lunch Box1912]

I agree lol.

 

Your all just upset because Bioware indoctrinated us all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't think it has the problems you describe unless you're making assumptions that I'm not making.

 

We don't have intergalactic capabilities of the sort that are useful for a civilization, but you don't need them for the ark theory to work just fine.  It's okay if the trip takes 30,000 years (given stasis), because we have no expectation of ever making a return trip or talking to the folks back home.  You could do it with tech that's already available.

 

And if the way you do it is to basically strap thrusters on a mining station similar to Omega, one that you already have... I think it could be way, way less resource-intensive than the Lazarus project was.

Time isn't the issue, the drive core is. If it doesn't discharge, it kills everything inside the ship. Having done the math, we would need to discharge 101,520 times. We won't find that many places between the galaxies to do that, or have nearly enough fuel to speed up, run at FTL, slow down, discharge, speed up, etc without the ship being ridiculously massive. Not to mention the space needed for all the water, food, air, and space for the people to live since who knows how long after reaching Andromeda they can find a world that is habitable for all races and build a colony on it. And several more problems. 

[Undead Han]

Indoctrination Theory is back?

 

I now miss Chris Priestly.

[LPPrince]

How. How has the Indoctrination Theory not been given up yet?

[LPPrince]

Indoctrination Theory is back?

 

I now miss Chris Priestly.

 

He misses you too. Though hey, he's feeling pretty top right now given he's with CDPR.

[Hadeedak]

*eyeball twitch*

 

Shepard's the new Warden, isn't s/he?

[dfjdejulio]

Time isn't the issue, the drive core is. If it doesn't discharge, it kills everything inside the ship. Having done the math, we would need to discharge 101,520 times. We won't find that many places between the galaxies to do that, or have nearly enough fuel to speed up, run at FTL, slow down, discharge, speed up, etc without the ship being ridiculously massive. Not to mention the space needed for all the water, food, air, and space for the people to live since who knows how long after reaching Andromeda they can find a world that is habitable for all races and build a colony on it. 

 

If you use an entire mining station, the ship being incredibly massive is not an issue.

 

And I'll note you're assuming FTL.  I'm not actually sure we need to.  Time dilation + stasis pods... sure, to an external observer, the trip would literally take millions of years, but with time dilation it could subjectively be short enough for stasis pods to do the trick, so that might be okay.

[Lunch Box1912]

If you use an entire mining station, the ship being incredibly massive is not an issue.

 

And I'll note you're assuming FTL.  I'm not actually sure we need to.  Time dilation + stasis pods... sure, to an external observer, the trip would literally take millions of years, but with time dilation it could subjectively be short enough for stasis pods to do the trick, so that might be okay.

So if an egg leaves earth and arrives in Andromeda 30,000 years later. can I still eat it?

[Seboist]

How. How has the Indoctrination Theory not been given up yet?

 

Some  fans were a little too invested into their ME power fantasy and desire to have a a happy ending with space waifu at the beach that having the rug swept from right underneath them at the end heavily traumatized them.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If you use an entire mining station, the ship being incredibly massive is not an issue.

 

And I'll note you're assuming FTL.  I'm not actually sure we need to.  Time dilation + stasis pods... sure, to an external observer, the trip would literally take millions of years, but with time dilation it could subjectively be short enough for stasis pods to do the trick, so that might be okay.

Time dilation does not occur when using Mass Effect fields. Unless the ship is not running on mass effect engines, it will not be occuring. And to have a ship that has enough power to sustain hundreds if not thousands of people for millions of years is impossible with the technology available. Cities of races more advanced than us have not been able to keep those running for 50,000 years, let alone millions. 

[The Heretic of Time]

I put Indoctrination Theorists in the same camp as Holocaust deniers or 9/11 inside-jobbers.

No, scratch that, I think Holocaust deniers and 9/11 inside-jobbers are less crazy than people who still believe in the IT after 3 frikkin' years.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I put Indoctrination Theorists in the same camp as Holocaust deniers or 9/11 inside-jobbers.

No, scratch that, I think Holocaust deniers and 9/11 inside-jobbers are less crazy than people who still believe in the IT after 3 frikkin' years.

That's a messed up comparison. 

 

ITers are just trying to find a way to make a game more enjoyable for them. 

Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers are trivializing and demeaning real life tragedies. 

[dfjdejulio]

Time dilation does not occur when using Mass Effect fields. Unless the ship is not running on mass effect engines, it will not be occuring. And to have a ship that has enough power to sustain hundreds if not thousands of people for millions of years is impossible. Cities have not been able to keep those running for 50,000 years, let alone millions. 

 

Time dilation does not occur when using mass effect fields for FTL.  I've never seen anything say that the mere presence of a mass effect field is enough to prevent time dilation that would otherwise be occurring.

 

And if you've got the time dilation and the stasis technology, it's not going to be a subjective million years.  And we've got an example of someone getting out of a stasis pod and standing up after 50,000 years, under pretty sub-optimal circumstances.  (Hi, Javik!)

[Augustei]

What are you IT'ers doing out of the ward?! How did you get out? I thought you all were locked up or died or found sense or something

[dfjdejulio]

So if an egg leaves earth and arrives in Andromeda 30,000 years later. can I still eat it?

 

You wouldn't want to -- Robin Williams might be inside.

[Steelcan]

I'm sympathetic to the idea of IT as an interpretation for trying to make sense of the endings, but the notion that the writers fully intended it from the beginning I find a lot less plausible.

 

However, given that this game takes place an entire galaxy away, I don't expect any IT reveal or outright denial

 

their silence on the issue is all that is necessary

[Monica21]

I put Indoctrination Theorists in the same camp as Holocaust deniers or 9/11 inside-jobbers.

No, scratch that, I think Holocaust deniers and 9/11 inside-jobbers are less crazy than people who still believe in the IT after 3 frikkin' years.

 

And now let's talk about the difference between fantasy and reality.

[The Heretic of Time]

 

Holocaust deniers and 9/11 truthers are trivializing and demeaning real life tragedies. 

 

Exactly, that's why they're less crazy than ITers, who go balls deep in the kool-aid over a videogame ending. At least the Holocaust and 9/11 are real events.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Time dilation does not occur when using mass effect fields for FTL.  I've never seen anything say that the mere presence of a mass effect field is enough to prevent time dilation that would otherwise be occurring.

 

And if you've got the time dilation and the stasis technology, it's not going to be a subjective million years.  And we've got an example of someone getting out of a stasis pod and standing up after 50,000 years, under pretty sub-optimal circumstances.  (Hi, Javik!)

The ship is still moving in the universe, so it is still experiencing the universe's timeflow. It is only inside the ship where time dilation would occur. Therefore, the ship still needs a power supply capable of running the ship at the speed it is going, defenses for anything it may encounter like asteroids, and keeping the stasis pods powered for millions of years. We have not seen anything last even 0.51% that long, and that is with the ship moving at lightspeed. And we certainly don't have tech for that.