That said, some version of IT was my assumption the first time I beat the game. I was thinking, "this kid has to be Harbinger trying to trick me. Well I'm not falling for you crap Harbinger! [shoots tube]"
what if ME3 has Reaper Code and We are indoctrinated and we don't realize it. And the forum conflict is preventing us to realize that
Out of idle curiosity, how'd you figure that shooting the tube would work if you couldn't believe the rest?
I didn't think shooting tube would literally destroy the reapers. I thought it was a symbolic rejection of the Catalyst/Harbinger's perverse reasoning.
Yeah, after they reduced their theoretical "dozens of endings" to just 4, I don't think they would, after all that, make "Destroy" the only right ending. These are all meta reasons for IT not being correct, but they make sense.
I know IT isn't really but its a shame that Bioware didn't use Indoctrination for the Reapers to stop us since we were the ace in the hole to ending the Reaper Threat. I mean the Reapers tried to stop Shepard by killing him and the Illusive Man undid that by bringing us back to life. So in a sense it seems absurd that the Reapers didn't try to Indoctrinate Shepard at all. "yeah lets indoctrinate everyone that can't stop us but we the almighty Reapers just don't have the heart to indoctrinate the one person that can stop us. Challenge Accepted" I mean when you sit down and think about it, the main character not getting indoctrinated by the Reapers is just absurd. It means the Reapers aren't completely controlled by the Catalyst or the Catalyst was a last minute throw in to the game. Reapers show signs of having an ego and that is the only explanation at best for why the Reapers didn't resort to indoctrinating Shepard, but wait if Reapers have egos than how can they be controlled by some ominous Catalyst because if they are controlled than they essential wouldn't have egos that would be counter productive to what they are trying to do.
So IT being created was only the results of Biowares mistakes. The mistakes is as followed:
1. Why did the Reapers not Indoctrinate Shepard to stop him/her? The Indoctrination of Shepard would've meant the Reapers total victory over the Galaxy. Shepard not being Indoctrinated can mean that the Reapers thought of him/her as a challenge so that would mean the Reapers have egos.
2. If the Reapers didn't Indoctrinate Shepard than how can the Catalyst exist? Catalyst actually existing means that the Reapers would've indoctrinated Shepard to stop the war effort against them or eliminate Shepard again. I am more incline to believe the Reapers would've indoctrinated Shepard to stop the him/her from rallying the Galaxy up. Reapers not doing the logical thing by Indoctrinating Shepard probably shows signs that they have egos, they wanted to show Shepard that all his/her efforts were for nothing by crushing the united Galaxy. Reapers had many chances to Indoctrinated Shepard too but choose not to, the logic of a Catalyst controlling them is ever so nonexistent.
3. Catalyst is a last minute add and we see this throughout the series, we see that the Reapers have egos because if they didn't than why did they play around with Shepard.
Since Indoctrination "Theory" is basically just a fanfic alternate ending, I doubt it will have bearing on MEA.
I hope MEA doesn't contradict it, though, because Indoctination Theory, I think, significantly improves ME3.Since Indoctrination "Theory" is basically just a fanfic alternate ending, I doubt it will have bearing on MEA.
Having played the games dozens of times, the Indoctrination Theory IMO makes much more sense. The Mass Effect Trilogy centered very much around this idea from the beginning of the series and to the very end. I think it was pretty cool of Bioware's intention to see who would fall into indoctrination. Heck, my first choice was synthesis and then realized what a dumb choice that was. 
If you played the game just for fun shooting and blasting through everything without actually reading the story and analyzing bits and parts such as the oily shadows over the illusive man then ya, you are going to be confused as $hit.
By the third game, Shepard looks worn out and very hopeless about the state of the Galaxy yet pushes himself through sheer will to see the end.
For me, the problem was that the third iteration was filled with too many plot holes because of rushed development and budget. In other words, The game was simply becoming too big. Love Leviathan DLC but what happened to them in the end?
Can't wait to see Andromeda and hope it explains how it all really all ended.
IT-Dark. The Reapers won. And now they're coming for Andromeda! And husk-Shepard is their lead pawn! AHHHHHHHH!!!!! *commits self-defenestration*
The game base is broken. Most peoples' opinions on IT are now set in stone and will not be changing in this thread. I personally like IT. A lot of people here do not. I've tried formal arguing; it goes nowhere... or the same where over and over again a la Zevran's water wheel analogy.
More to the point I'd actually like to make, I think the Citadel DLC's 4-way division of the Silversun Strip did a decent enough job of showing that BioWare knows that the players have broken into camps regarding ME3's ending. Destroy/Gamble/Chaos in Red, Control your fate in Blue, Find a di.... hell I never understood why people choose Synthesis... whatever in Green, and Indoc Theory/Can't Trust This At All/We're Screwed No Matter What (Shell Game)/Refuse all lumped into the Yellow section. The vocalized concepts behind each decision are on display in each corner of the strip, sorted by color. And yeah, IT is slyly referred to in the Armax Arena's buggy simulator mission.
What I most want to see is if BioWare will attempt to reconcile all the major factions in future installments and how. I have no doubt that BioWare can do it if they put the effort in, even in a setting as far removed as a distant galaxy. BioWare collectively is a master of the narrative twist and I really want to see this.
Guys guys....
Everything after the First Contact War isn't real
What I most want to see is if BioWare will attempt to reconcile all the major factions in future installments and how. I have no doubt that BioWare can do it if they put the effort in, even in a setting as far removed as a distant galaxy. BioWare collectively is a master of the narrative twist and I really want to see this.
Guys guys....
Everything after the First Contact War isn't real
The Relay 314 Incident was really just humanity fudging up the reactivation of the Charon relay, which detonated, obliterated the system, and everything we see now is just the dream of a single consciousness that all occurs within a fraction of a second in the dying light of the solar system, and it can only remember a single word to identify itself: Shepard.
Who Indoctrinated the Indoctrination Theory people and how do convince a crazy person to try this new thing called sanity?
The Relay 314 Incident was really just humanity fudging up the reactivation of the Charon relay, which detonated, obliterated the system, and everything we see now is just the dream of a single consciousness that all occurs within a fraction of a second in the dying light of the solar system, and it can only remember a single word to identify itself: Shepard.
And humanity is actually the elusive Virtual Aliens whose collective consciousness was entrapped in the Van Allen radiation belt.
I think a lot of folks are missing the key point about the intriguing "Indoctrination Theory". Meaning, IMO, Bioware actually weaved that possibility/probability right into the script from the beginning. Which culminated with 2 of the endings (Synthesis and Control). But what actually happened was "Indoctrination" in reverse based on which way one played the game. Shepard flipped the switch and actually ended up indoctrinating Harbinger and the Reapers with Synthesis & Control endings. The death blow for them occurred on Rannoch, when Shepard entered the Harbinger/Reaper mind & Control matrix with the Geth, and seized control of it. The Ending sequence was fairly predictable after that. With Harbinger trying desperately to take back control from Shepard through escalating war with its proxy, "The Illusive Man". That's why I loved both Synthesis and Control endings overwhelmingly over "Destroy or Refusal". Where Shepard & humanity actually lost & were Indoctrinated/absorbed. IT allows ME to leap forward in entirely different directions and dimensions, once one understands IT is a 2-way process, with unlimited potential outcomes. The other 2 "Renegade" endings were like Strait Jackets to me, from a continuing story perspective. They literally indexed everything to a Milky Way story arc. I hated them!
"IT" perfectly set up Andromeda from a Shepard story perspective. Because it creates the bridge to circle back to a Shepard narrative in a future ME Saga. Which could be set up in a vastly distant future. After the Andromeda Galaxies Merge into One as fated. Which would be only as a day for a God-Being like Shepard in the Synthesis and Control endings. I think Bioware got the endings just right. They can't announce IT because it would spill the beans on any future saga after ME-A. Or if no new ones are fated after ME-A. They can always just say; "Shepard bit the dust in ME-MW Trilogy and is no more" (Destroy/Refusal).
I'm sympathetic to the idea of IT as an interpretation for trying to make sense of the endings, but the notion that the writers fully intended it from the beginning I find a lot less plausible.
However, given that this game takes place an entire galaxy away, I don't expect any IT reveal or outright denial
their silence on the issue is all that is necessary
@tantum Dic Verbo:
But yet you have evidence all over the place, that IT was not only the planned narrative. But part of an ongoing dimension of the script. For example: THe obscure, but extremely relevant Partnership game; Kingdom of Amalur-Reckoning was scripted and developed exclusively under the domain of a contuing arc from Mass Effect. And told from an IT basis in a far distent future. That can't be just overlooked. Or swept under the rug by Bioware, us, or anyone. I just think Bioware doesn't want to admit IT, because it gives away everything in their cookie jar. They love us quarreling about it. Because it serves their purpose of generating rich ideas for the future. But they won't fess up to it being the whole shebang, until they are ready to move on and close the Mass Effect Book forever. THe IT theoirist just peeked their "hole card" or "Whole if you prefer. They jumped the shark in many ways. And I believe Bioware is just further hiding it in "Andromeda".
@tantum Dic Verbo:
But yet you have evidence all over the place, that IT was not only the planned narrative. But part of an ongoing dimension of the script. For example: THe obscure, but extremely relevant Partnership game; Kingdom of Amalur-Reckoning was scripted and developed exclusively under the domain of a contuing arc from Mass Effect. And told from an IT basis in a far distent future. That can't be just overlooked. Or swept under the rug by Bioware, us, or anyone. I just think Bioware doesn't want to admit IT, because it gives away everything in their cookie jar. They love us quarreling about it. Because it serves their purpose of generating rich ideas for the future. But they won't fess up to it being the whole shebang, until they are ready to move on and close the Mass Effect Book forever. THe IT theoirist just peeked their "hole card" or "Whole if you prefer. They jumped the shark in many ways. And I believe Bioware is just further hiding it in "Andromeda".
Indoctrination Theory is still alive?
@tantum Dic Verbo:
At least you are open minded to the possibility. Albeit with a low probability position. IMO that's a good, healthy place to be in this franchise.
We have a leaked script outline. There's no IT in it. We do have the odd effects when meeting TIM on the Citadel, but those are explicitly said to be a callback to a sequence from the Horizon mission where Cerberus tries out their newly-developed indoctrination technology on Shepard; devs have said that sequence was cut because it failed in playtesting.@tantum Dic Verbo:
But yet you have evidence all over the place, that IT was not only the planned narrative. But part of an ongoing dimension of the script. For example: THe obscure, but extremely relevant Partnership game; Kingdom of Amalur-Reckoning was scripted and developed exclusively under the domain of a contuing arc from Mass Effect. And told from an IT basis in a far distent future. That can't be just overlooked. Or swept under the rug by Bioware, us, or anyone. I just think Bioware doesn't want to admit IT, because it gives away everything in their cookie jar. They love us quarreling about it. Because it serves their purpose of generating rich ideas for the future. But they won't fess up to it being the whole shebang, until they are ready to move on and close the Mass Effect Book forever. THe IT theoirist just peeked their "hole card" or "Whole if you prefer. They jumped the shark in many ways. And I believe Bioware is just further hiding it in "Andromeda".
I think it's interesting that the writing was so sloppy that it gave rise to IT. The reason I like IT (without subscribing to it, mind) is that it allows me, for one fleeting moment, to feel like the writers were actually doing something on purpose. In fact, one of my best reasons for dismissing IT is that it *does* require me to believe that the writers had a coherent idea and that they expressed it with some subtlety.
@AlanC9 who said:
"I also have no idea what that Amalur game has to do with anything."
Well play it instead of just critiquing it. And you'll see the references and even storylines relating directly to Mass Effect right up front, at the beginning of the game. When the Amalur Mystery Man Protagonist gets his Omni-gel weapon and Shepard Armor upon resurrection from death to pursue & weave an entirely new "Fate". With the caveat statement that they were remnants which derived from a world that vanished in a "long distant and forgotten past".
I personally love the fact that ME had sort of an organic script/story process. Whereby they gave us a canvass to create a Shepard. And we gave them one to perfect their own process. Who cares how we got there. What's remarkable is that Mass Effect has the potential of becoming the very first video game whereby Life begat life from so many different perspectives. From reality to alternate, to virtual, to who knows what in the future.
Indoctrination Theory is still alive?
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