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Indoctrination Theory and Mass Effect Andromeda


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#176
Monica21

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I don't particularly like or believe in IT, because among other things, it bonks the "Many choices" thing on the head and is like "CHOOSE ONE OR YOU FAIL."

 

Which actually fits better with the pre-release interview stating that there wouldn't be choices A, B, and C and that it wouldn't be simple. You really only get one choice.



#177
caradoc2000

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I somehow doubt it's set thousands of years in the future when they're still using gear from the ME trilogy in the trailer.

Kotor is set 4000 years before the original SW trilogy and they use the same technology.



#178
Ashevajak

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There are still IT fanboys trying to pass off their wishful thinking for why they didn't get their happy ending with their space waifu in a third person shooter as a legit theory after three years now? Seriously?

 

That nonsense has as much credibility as those nutjob 9/11 truther conspiracy theories that involved remote planes or holograms.

 

Don't be silly.  Indoctrination Theory can't melt steel beams.

 

Priority: Earth was an inside job! 


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#179
Torgette

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Kotor is set 4000 years before the original SW trilogy and they use the same technology.

 

Yes, but star wars isn't science fiction, it's space fantasy.  :P


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#180
Heimerdinger

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Lets take a look at MEA a bit. What we know, only official confirmed word of god stuff:

 

- game is in a new galaxy (we don't know how we get there or why)

- protagonist is human male/female

- takes place long after the trilogy

 

Now, if

 

1) No save import, endings ignored, Andromeda colonists leave before endings, they don't know what happened. - Speculations for everyone forever. Artistic integrity. Biggest trolling in video game history.

 

2) Save import exists (or Keep style app) and we hear of face value literal endings - IT disproved 

 

3) Save import exists (or Keep style app) and we hear of indoctrinated traitor Shepard / Shepard resisted and he's a big goddamn hero - IT confirmed

 

MEA will clear things up.



#181
Lunch Box1912

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George RR Martin: Every time someone asks me when the next book is coming out I kill a Stark!

 

Bioware: Every time someone mentions the ending of ME3 Mass Effect Andromeda's ending becomes even more ambiguous!

 

 

They could have a lot in common.


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#182
AlanC9

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Now, if

1) No save import, endings ignored, Andromeda colonists leave before endings, they don't know what happened. - Speculations for everyone forever. Artistic integrity. Biggest trolling in video game history.

2) Save import exists (or Keep style app) and we hear of face value literal endings - IT disproved

3) Save import exists (or Keep style app) and we hear of indoctrinated traitor Shepard / Shepard resisted and he's a big goddamn hero - IT confirmed

MEA will clear things up


Case 1 doesn't clear up anything. It's also the most likely outcome by far. If they wanted to handle the endings, we wouldn't be moving to Andromeda.
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#183
RZIBARA

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People still think this crap is the real deal?

 

LOL

 

Keep dreaming people (pun intended)


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#184
Hanako Ikezawa

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Know which theory they should follow? Extreme Indoctrination Theory.

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo


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#185
alienatedflea

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Actually IT proves that no matter what ending you pick...you die and everyone loses since blue/green endings you see you die.  High ems red ending is actually witnessing Shepard taking his last dying breath but that's not a bad thing per say because he died a free un-indoctrinated person. 

 

Since everyone dies and the cycle continues, its logical that the new game would be in a new galaxy.  Just my crazy notion.



#186
teh DRUMPf!!

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Clearly the Catalyst had no sense of self-preservation, otherwise the reapers could've just ya know... made sure Shepard was dead? Or turn off the beam, or just fire a beam once he gets up to the Catalyst.


Two literary fails do not make a right.
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#187
teh DRUMPf!!

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Which actually fits better with the pre-release interview stating that there wouldn't be choices A, B, and C and that it wouldn't be simple. You really only get one choice.


BioWare PR made pre-release statements that did not hold true? Stop the presses!

#188
corporal doody

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dear Flying Spaghetti Monster.......LET IT GO!!!

 

IT....the fanfic that refuses to be flushed.

 

keep it away from my MEA.


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#189
KaiserShep

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Know which theory they should follow? Extreme Indoctrination Theory.

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo

 

I never tire of this image. 



#190
In Exile

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Know which theory they should follow? Extreme Indoctrination Theory.

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo

This is the best theory. First time I've seen it. Can't stop laughing. 


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#191
Former_Fiend

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Know which theory they should follow? Extreme Indoctrination Theory.

mass_effect__extreme_indoctrination_theo

 

...Don't hanar only show up after the Eden Prime Beacon?



#192
Guest_Buru_*

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3) Save import exists (or Keep style app) and we hear of indoctrinated traitor Shepard / Shepard resisted and he's a big goddamn hero - IT confirmed

 

Not gonna happen

 

1) No save import, endings ignored, Andromeda colonists leave before endings, they don't know what happened. - Speculations for everyone forever. Artistic integrity. Biggest trolling in video game history.

 

That seems to be what they're going for.



#193
Torgette

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Two literary fails do not make a right.

 

That's the joke.



#194
Clark

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You can take away from the endings whatever you'd like. Personally, I choose the indoctrination theory, because it makes a better story that way. At least to me. 

 

That said, I hope ME:A breaks every tie with the trilogy that it possibly can. I'd like it if the Ark was sent as a last ditch effort to preserve life before the Reapers killed everyone before the Crucible was finished. I would like for no one in the Ark to know what happened back in the Milky Way. 

 

I just really want the writers to start fresh without all the baggage of trying to balance all the possible choices. Maybe I'm alone in that.



#195
DarthSliver

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I say the Indoctrination Theory is only in existences because of the shotty endings we were given. But what gives its real power is the fact that the endings were shotty and only one of those shotty endings Shepard is able to wake up and take another breath. 

 

People who don't like IT have no one to blame but Bioware who made such a fantastic series then allowed it to come crashing down with those bad endings. The people who are against IT need to remember the theory wasn't created to make a happy ending because there is no happy ending with IT, the theory merely exist to make sense of why we saw what we did see at the end. 

 

Bioware moving to Andromeda is due to two reasons with one probably not being completely true. 

1. Bioware doesn't want to touch the ending choices with a ten foot steel pole so we are going to another galaxy. 

2. ME3 endings were so shotty, Bioware was trying to end the franchise but due to the popularity of the franchise EA wants more ME games, so we are moving to another galaxy so the shotty endings can be ignored. 


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#196
hiraeth

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Some  fans were a little too invested into their ME power fantasy and desire to have a a happy ending with space waifu at the beach that having the rug swept from right underneath them at the end heavily traumatized them.

 

Now the disappointment with the massive narrative incoherence that is the ME3 ending is being summarized as a traumatic reaction to Shepard not being on a beach with his or her "space waifu." I fail to see how this perspective is any less narrow-minded than IT.



#197
AlanC9

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Well, it'd probably be harder to sell that case if so many people weren't so invested in getting rid of the tough things about the ending. In retrospect, Bio should have realized that ME's always been about avoiding hard choices, not making them.

#198
hiraeth

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Well, it'd probably be harder to sell that case if so many people weren't so invested in getting rid of the tough things about the ending. In retrospect, Bio should have realized that ME's always been about avoiding hard choices, not making them.

 

I think there's some truth to this. Hard choices can be very uncomfortable--personally, they force me to get out of autopilot mode and really consider my values and priorities. Oftentimes, the choices include sacrifice, which can also be difficult, especially if you don't feel you have the right to make that sacrifice (which was one of the issues raised with the galaxy-altering choices Shepard faces in the ME3 ending). 

 

However, I think a difficult choice, though uncomfortable, can also be extremely meaningful, possibly even rewarding. Take the genophage story arc finale (which was highly praised): Mordin was my favorite character and the idea of him sacrificing himself was so sad that I almost opted to go down the path of convincing him to not cure the genophage. It was difficult, but I decided the survival of the krogan was more important than the survival of Mordin. Very hard choice, but one that was executed so well in terms of plot buildup (ME1 through ME3) and character development that I was ultimately really satisfied with the writers' approach to that decision.

 

TLDR: Regardless of how ME1-ME3 played out, I don't think you need to avoid hard choices--just avoid superficial hard choices built on contrivance or a forced feeling of importance. Definitely avoid hard choices that just don't make sense period or don't make sense because they're inconsistent with lore. Focus on choices that reflect meaningful issues in the galaxy that you've spent time experiencing and have become invested in with characters you care about.



#199
CronoDragoon

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However, I think a difficult choice, though uncomfortable, can also be extremely meaningful, possibly even rewarding. Take the genophage story arc finale (which was highly praised): Mordin was my favorite character and the idea of him sacrificing himself was so sad that I almost opted to go down the path of convincing him to not cure the genophage. It was difficult, but I decided the survival of the krogan was more important than the survival of Mordin. Very hard choice, but one that was executed so well in terms of plot buildup (ME1 through ME3) and character development that I was ultimately really satisfied with the writers' approach to that decision.

 

It might be more accurate to say that ME is a series with many choices that became easy in retrospect. The genophage is a good example since it's an easy decision in multiple ways: 1) the game never takes seriously the implications of a krogan race free to breed like a virus again, instead focusing on the gratitude of likable characters like Wrex and Eve and making the salarian councillor out to be a mustache-twirler. The salarians end up giving you support anyway. And 2) Mordin dies one way or another since you have to kill him to stop him.

 

From a role-playing perspective, choosing the P/R choices in Tali's loyalty mission isn't obviously the best solution at all, either. In fact, from an RP perspective they are probably the worst, since there's no real logical reason for them to work. In retrospect (combined with P/R choices always working) it's clearly the best option.



#200
hiraeth

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It might be more accurate to say that ME is a series with many choices that became easy in retrospect. The genophage is a good example since it's an easy decision in multiple ways: 1) the game never takes seriously the implications of a krogan race free to breed like a virus again, instead focusing on the gratitude of likable characters like Wrex and Eve and making the salarian councillor out to be a mustache-twirler. The salarians end up giving you support anyway. And 2) Mordin dies one way or another since you have to kill him to stop him.

 

1. If you're concerned enough about the implications of a Krogan race free to breed like a virus again, you can choose not to cure the genophage to be safe. Mordin spends plenty of time in ME2 giving you reasons for why you'd be justified in keeping the genophage going. Regardless of the emphasis the game places on it, you're free to come to that conclusion yourself and many did.

 

2. There is an option where Mordin survives (https://www.youtube....h?v=27jkfQpIzPM). He even sends you an email while he's working on the Crucible.