94 réponses à ce sujet

[anddill]

Inconsistent but still the way weapons in the ME-Universe work. So we have to take it as it is or complain to the writers.

[Drone223]

So go ahead and name what that famous something to stop the Reapers is supposed to be. You should definitely write to BW and tell them to redo the whole thing acording to how you think things should have been, since obviously, the Crucible wasn't even needed if they just found something. 
 

Considering how the plans for the crucible were already under their very noses they just needed to look, also they increased the readiness of their fleets in anticipation for the reaper's arrival.

 

When did I ever say Asari should get a free pass? Of course the Matriarchs involved are going to face sanctions for what they did, just like the Turians responsible for the bomb and the Salarians responsible for kidnapping Eve. You just can't hold the whole population responsible for something they weren't even aware of. Hell, compared to wiping out an entire race with one big bomb, hiding a Prothean beacon they couldn't even decipher fully is pretty tame.

 

 

The turian hierarchy as a whole had to pay damages they inflicted in the first contact war which was started by a handful of turians. The asari republic undoubtedly have to do the same since they withhold prothean technology for themselves and information that could have ended the war much sooner. Its not just going to be a few matriarchs that are going to face punishment.

 

 

 
And again, they obviously couldn't, even in these 2000 years. I'm not the one who wrote this story. Is it full of inconsistencies? Yes. Can we do something about it? No. However we can at least stick to the facts we HAVE and not invent things to validate our points of view. Points of view that in your case, are heavilly biased against Asari. Again, you have the right to not like them, but if you're going to argument your points, try to stick to the facts and be objective. Otherwise, all you're convincing me of is that you're prejudiced.

That is no good excuse if TIM can do it without the cipher than the asari could have done it just as easily not to mention 2000 years was plenty of time to acquire the cipher. Not to mention Shepard clearly stated that had they shared the information earlier they might not be in their current situation.

 

They indeed didn't. However that's because their army is pretty small. Considering Turians, Krogans and Humans are otherwise occupied, who's going to protect their own homeworld? Robot unicorns? From the Wiki:
Asari: Military Doctrine
The asari military resembles a collection of tribal warrior bands with no national structure. Each community organizes its own unit as the locals see fit, and elect a leader to command them. Units from populous cities are large and well-equipped, while those from farm villages may only be a few women with small arms. There is no uniform; everyone wears what they like. The asari military is not an irregular militia, however; those who serve are full-time professionals.

The average asari huntress is in the maiden stage of her life and has devoted 20–30 years to studying the martial arts. Asari choose to be warriors at a young age, and their education from that point is dedicated to sharpening the mind and body for that sole purpose. When they retire, they possess an alarming proficiency for killing.

Huntresses fight individually or in pairs, depending on the tactics preferred in their town. One-on-one, a huntress is practically unbeatable, possessing profound tactical insight, a hunter's eye, and a dancer's grace and alacrity. Biotics are common enough that some capability is a requirement to be trained as a huntress; lack of biotic talent excludes a young asari from military service.

While fluid and mobile, asari can't stand up in a firestorm the way a krogan, turian, or human could. Since their units are small and typically lack heavy armor and support weapons, they are almost incapable of fighting a conventional war, particularly one of a defensive nature. So asari units typically undertake special operations missions. Like an army of ninja, they are adept at ambush, infiltration, and assassination, demoralizing and defeating their enemies through intense, focused guerrilla strikes.

As a popular turian saying puts it, "The asari are the finest warriors in the galaxy. Fortunately, there are not many of them."

 

Besides, they were there in the end, when they were needed. But obviously, nothing can redeem them in your eyes.

 

They were needed during they war summit and Hackett said it best "They (the asari) will regret that soon the time for unity is now." and they chose to sit out of it, I'd call that sitting idle. The asari also had some degree of success against the reaper's they could have help a lot during the early stages of the war instead they chose to do nothing and only got themselves involved when it was too late.
 

 

[Kabooooom]

Inconsistent but still the way weapons in the ME-Universe work. So we have to take it as it is or complain to the writers.

Except no where in the lore/codex does it say that the mass effect violates conservation of energy, in fact it implies exactly the opposite because conserving rest energy is exactly how decreasing rest mass is correlated with an increase in the speed of light within a mass effect field (ie: E/m=c^2, if energy is constant but the mass decreases, the speed of light increases). So, violating conservation of energy is your interpretation of it, but it is not supported by the lore.

Truly, the writers just wanted nearly everything in the setting to be influenced by mass effect tech in some way - including guns. They spent a lot of time explaining how FTL works, and little explaining how weapon ballistics works, hence the apparent inconsistency and speculation.

[Fade9wayz]

Considering how the plans for the crucible were already under their very noses they just needed to look, also they increased the readiness of their fleets in anticipation for the reaper's arrival.

 

The turian hierarchy as a whole had to pay damages they inflicted in the first contact war which was started by a handful of turians. The asari republic undoubtedly have to do the same since they withhold prothean technology for themselves and information that could have ended the war much sooner. Its not just going to be a few matriarchs that are going to face punishment.

 

 

That is no good excuse if TIM can do it without the cipher than the asari could have done it just as easily not to mention 2000 years was plenty of time to acquire the cipher. Not to mention Shepard clearly stated that had they shared the information earlier they might not be in their current situation.

 

They were needed during they war summit and Hackett said it best "They (the asari) will regret that soon the time for unity is now." and they chose to sit out of it, I'd call that sitting idle. The asari also had some degree of success against the reaper's they could have help a lot during the early stages of the war instead they chose to do nothing and only got themselves involved when it was too late.
 

You're always saying: 'they should have done this...', or ' they just had to...', if they had done this instead of that...'. The hard fact is they didn't or couldn't. It's easy to say what would have been best when everything is finished and you have the whole picture. But at the moment the events were happening, the characters didn't have all these informations, didn't even now what to look for or where. In ME1, nobody thought to look on Mars for an anti-Reaper weapon. Again, hindsight, wonderful thing. 

They didn't believe in Reapers, so they didn't have much reason to increase their readiness. But even if they did believe in it. What difference was it supposed to do? Tell me, how were they supposed to increase their readiness? Build more ships? Does that mean you consider it easier to build more ships powerful enough to take on the whole Reaper fleet conventionally, rather than a single Ship travelling at near-light speed to Andromeda with refugees (which doesn't even require new tech if we let relativity and time dilation do their work)? Look at the damage a single Reaper did on the allied fleets of the Citadel. In ME2, C-Sec had to enroll considerably more humans because evenTurians were unable to provide more officers to replace those who were lost against Sovereign. Furthermore, even if they could build enough super war ships (I'm feelin' generous), how were they supposed to crew them? Forced intensive breeding and accelerated aging, then forced enrollment? While we are at it, and in anticipation of the Reaper's arrival, they could be genetically and cybernetically modified to make them super-soldier. So many possibilities that would have made beating Reapers as easy as swatting flies. Oh wait, that's not the story BW wrote... Something must be wrong.

 

You said it yourself, the Turian hierarchy, which is the Turian governement. Matriarchs are, in effect, the government of the Asari. So yes, they will have to pay reparation for hiding the Prothean beacon, but the Turians too will have to pay reparation for the bomb, and the Salarians for forbidden studies (the humans would have to do so too if it were known they sent nuclear war heads in space during the first contact war, or that they were working on IAs). They will all have to pay, not just the Asari. Or more likely, they will all agree to let sleeping dogs lie in either green-glowing-cyber-hippie-all-encompassing-love-and-understanding, Big-Brother-enforced-peace, or the necessity of rebuilding the galaxy and their homeworlds instead of going at each other's throat for past mistakes.

 

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. If they had the plans of the catalyst all along and knew what it was for, why send Shepard to the Cerberus base then? Why even make him/her come to Thessia? At that point,it would have been far easier and more beneficial to the Asari to just send the data directly to the Councillor on the Citadel who'd give it to Shepard. They could have even come up with a story that didn't give away the origin of the Catalyst plans. What reason would they have to keep it from Shepard once they decided to share it? To have a chance to admire Shepard's a** running around on their home planet? I don't know how TIM did it, although I wouldn't be all that surprised if Shepard's clone was involved, but all appearances point to the fact the Asari couldn't access to that part of the Prothean artifact. Maybe they could have avoided this situation had they acted sooner, but it's not sure, and they didn't know their artifact held the catalyst. They though it could eventually give information as to where it was located.

 

It's not like the presence of the Dalatrass to the war summit was a show of unity, quite the contrary. The Dalatrass was at the war summit to ensure her species interests over any united front against the Reapers (yes,I know, some STG decided to join the alliance anyway, but I hardly call that unity). The Asari government obviously decided their interest were best served on their own planet. It's cold, but I can understand their analysis, even if it was a ultimately a mistake. Their military is small, they have barely enough (wo)manpower to defend their own homeworlds. The Alliance is too busy defending Earth to come in reinforcement, same for the Turians and Krogans. Their three greater miltary forces are already too streched defending Palaven,Tuchanka, Earth, the Crucible and the Citadel to come help. If the Asari send their troops off-world, they will most likely be stranded/killed there, which means even less military power to defend their own homeworlds. That means they would literally sacrifice their homeworld for others, mmh, I can understand why they wouldn't be inclined to do so. I will agree that they should have sent a representative to the war summit though, to say they were sorry but they were too short-handed to be of any help. PR is apparently everything.

[Drone223]

 

You're always saying: 'they should have done this...', or ' they just had to...', if they had done this instead of that...'. The hard fact is they didn't or couldn't. It's easy to say what would have been best when everything is finished and you have the whole picture. But at the moment the events were happening, the characters didn't have all these informations, didn't even now what to look for or where. In ME1, nobody thought to look on Mars for an anti-Reaper weapon. Again, hindsight, wonderful thing. 

They didn't believe in Reapers, so they didn't have much reason to increase their readiness. But even if they did believe in it. What difference was it supposed to do? Tell me, how were they supposed to increase their readiness? Build more ships? Does that mean you consider it easier to build more ships powerful enough to take on the whole Reaper fleet conventionally, rather than a single Ship travelling at near-light speed to Andromeda with refugees (which doesn't even require new tech if we let relativity and time dilation do their work)? Look at the damage a single Reaper did on the allied fleets of the Citadel. In ME2, C-Sec had to enroll considerably more humans because evenTurians were unable to provide more officers to replace those who were lost against Sovereign. Furthermore, even if they could build enough super war ships (I'm feelin' generous), how were they supposed to crew them? Forced intensive breeding and accelerated aging, then forced enrollment? While we are at it, and in anticipation of the Reaper's arrival, they could be genetically and cybernetically modified to make them super-soldier. So many possibilities that would have made beating Reapers as easy as swatting flies. Oh wait, that's not the story BW wrote... Something must be wrong.

So we're not allowed to call them out on doing nothing to prepare for the reaper's.

 

 

You said it yourself, the Turian hierarchy, which is the Turian governement. Matriarchs are, in effect, the government of the Asari. So yes, they will have to pay reparation for hiding the Prothean beacon, but the Turians too will have to pay reparation for the bomb, and the Salarians for forbidden studies (the humans would have to do so too if it were known they sent nuclear war heads in space during the first contact war, or that they were working on IAs). They will all have to pay, not just the Asari. Or more likely, they will all agree to let sleeping dogs lie in either green-glowing-cyber-hippie-all-encompassing-love-and-understanding, Big-Brother-enforced-peace, or the necessity of rebuilding the galaxy and their homeworlds instead of going at each other's throat for past mistakes.

Considering the fact that the asari were the ones who made it illegal to horde protean tech it makes them look like hypocrites which they should pointed out for as well.

 

It's not an excuse, it's a fact. If they had the plans of the catalyst all along and knew what it was for, why send Shepard to the Cerberus base then? Why even make him/her come to Thessia? At that point,it would have been far easier and more beneficial to the Asari to just send the data directly to the Councillor on the Citadel who'd give it to Shepard. They could have even come up with a story that didn't give away the origin of the Catalyst plans. What reason would they have to keep it from Shepard once they decided to share it? To have a chance to admire Shepard's a** running around on their home planet? I don't know how TIM did it, although I wouldn't be all that surprised if Shepard's clone was involved, but all appearances point to the fact the Asari couldn't access to that part of the Prothean artifact. Maybe they could have avoided this situation had they acted sooner, but it's not sure, and they didn't know their artifact held the catalyst. They though it could eventually give information as to where it was located.

 

If they were able to extract data from the beacon before hand than it should be no problem for them to get the information regarding the crucible.

 

 

It's not like the presence of the Dalatrass to the war summit was a show of unity, quite the contrary. The Dalatrass was at the war summit to ensure her species interests over any united front against the Reapers (yes,I know, some STG decided to join the alliance anyway, but I hardly call that unity). The Asari government obviously decided their interest were best served on their own planet. It's cold, but I can understand their analysis, even if it was a ultimately a mistake. Their military is small, they have barely enough (wo)manpower to defend their own homeworlds. The Alliance is too busy defending Earth to come in reinforcement, same for the Turians and Krogans. Their three greater miltary forces are already too streched defending Palaven,Tuchanka, Earth, the Crucible and the Citadel to come help. If the Asari send their troops off-world, they will most likely be stranded/killed there, which means even less military power to defend their own homeworlds. That means they would literally sacrifice their homeworld for others, mmh, I can understand why they wouldn't be inclined to do so. I will agree that they should have sent a representative to the war summit though, to say they were sorry but they were too short-handed to be of any help. PR is apparently everything.

 

Actions speak louder than words and lack of involvement from the asari shows that weren't willing to commit themselves to the war especially during the early stages. The salarian's showing up to the war summit did show some commitment of their part and even if the dalatrass didn't get what she wanted they knew better than to compromise the STG.

[Agent69]

They keep giving a Volus red sand until he becomes a biotic god and can open portals between galaxies with his mind.

[Kabooooom]

Just had this thought:

We never see what happens to the Council. How funny would it be if they retroactively canonize that the Asari councilor WAS referring to the ark, and right before the Reapers hit the Citadel the three musketeers peace out to Andromeda and leave the galaxy to burn?

I mean, they are certainly douchey enough. It totally fits their M.O.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Just had this thought:

We never see what happens to the Council. How funny would it be if they retroactively canonize that the Asari councilor WAS referring to the ark, and right before the Reapers hit the Citadel the three musketeers peace out to Andromeda and leave the galaxy to burn?

I mean, they are certainly douchey enough. It totally fits their M.O.

Not funny at all.

[Kabooooom]

Not funny at all.

I recommend you check out:

https://en.m.wikiped...orical_question

And

https://en.m.wikiped...rg/wiki/Sarcasm

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I recommend you check out:

https://en.m.wikiped...orical_question

And

https://en.m.wikiped...rg/wiki/Sarcasm

And I gave you a rhetorical answer.

[Fade9wayz]

So we're not allowed to call them out on doing nothing to prepare for the reaper's.

Nope, we aren't. To achieve the impossible, no one is bound. Should we call out our governments for not having achieved world peace yet?
 

Considering the fact that the asari were the ones who made it illegal to horde protean tech it makes them look like hypocrites which they should pointed out for as well.

I have already answered this, not gonna repeat myself.
 

If they were able to extract data from the beacon before hand than it should be no problem for them to get the information regarding the crucible.

Alright, so they didn't transmit the data to Shepard just for the pleasure of having him/her strut his/her stuff on Thessia. Too bad he/she wasn't doing this wearing a thong only. I can hear the Matriarchs shouting in disappointment.
 

Actions speak louder than words and lack of involvement from the asari shows that weren't willing to commit themselves to the war especially during the early stages. The salarian's showing up to the war summit did show some commitment of their part and even if the dalatrass didn't get what she wanted they knew better than to compromise the STG.

I said they should have sent someone for PR, it would have obviously made you feel better having someone essentially just looking pretty at the war summit.

[Wulfram]

Should we call out our governments for not having achieved world peace yet?

Yes

[Drone223]

Nope, we aren't. To achieve the impossible, no one is bound. Should we call out our governments for not having achieved world peace yet?

So you saying people should be okay that they ignore Shepards warnings an did nothing?

 

 

I have already answered this, not gonna repeat myself.

 

Still worth pointing out though.

 

 

Alright, so they didn't transmit the data to Shepard just for the pleasure of having him/her strut his/her stuff on Thessia. Too bad he/she wasn't doing this wearing a thong only. I can hear the Matriarchs shouting in disappointment.

 

Now your just being childish, They were able to retrieve data from the beacon for about 2000 years so retrieving the necessary data isn't that far fetched.

 

I said they should have sent someone for PR, it would have obviously made you feel better having someone essentially just looking pretty at the war summit.

 

So they should only show because of PR reasons not because they are willing to commitment to the war effort?

[Fade9wayz]

Yes

Good luck. Would love to see that coming around. I'm afraid our governments are more interested in good economy,security, immigration and being re-elected though. I'd settle for avoiding a new cold war, and the fast approaching ecologic mass extinction.

[Fade9wayz]

name="Drone223" post="19346802" timestamp="1435401139"]
So you saying people should be okay that they ignore Shepards warnings an did nothing?

You're again judging them with your all-knowing hindsight. The characters involved didn't have your wonderful hinsight when they made their decision. To them, at the time,it made sense to react the way they did. I'm going to give you an exemple you can hopefully understand. Imagine a policeman who happens on a robbering at night. The robber is carrying a gun. The robber points his gun at the policeman. The policeman reacts very fast and shots down the robber. Afterwards, the justice discovers the thief's gun was actually a really realistic toy, not a real gun. In hindsight, the cop shouldn't have killed the thief, but he had no idea when the events happened and reacted the only way he was supposed to.
Besides,stop trying to put words I didn't say in my mouth
 
 

Still worth pointing out though.

Nope, repeating something over and over doesn't make it any truer or noteworthy when it isn't.

EDIT: My bad, it works for religions
 
 

Now your just being childish, They were able to retrieve data from the beacon for about 2000 years so retrieving the necessary data isn't that far fetched.

Trying to use my own words against me now? I'd laugh if the attempt wasn't so pathetic. You obviously didn't read my argument or chose to deliberately ignore it. Once they decided to reveal the existence of the artifact, they had no reason whatsoever to withhold more information. They were losing daughters and sisters. They weren't about losing any more time saving them with sending Shepard on some wild goose chase if they could avoid it.
 

So they should only show because of PR reasons not because they are willing to commitment to the war effort?

What I'm saying is that even if they sent a representative to the war summit, you wouldn't have been happy when they said they couldn't spare people to help the other races because they have to protect their interests (homeworld) first. Tell me, if your country was directly threatened by some other bigger and badder country and you had no hope of getting help from your allies, how would you feel if your army left and went to protect some other country on the other side of the planet? Would you agree with a government that left you, your home, family, friends at the mercy of the ennemy? So yes, essentially she would have just been PR. I suspect you would still be prejudiced against them, even though the Dalatrass is doing the same.
You know what? Keep on with your righteous self-delusion. I've got better things to do with my time, like finishing packing my suitcase and fly off to sunnier lands.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

We'll probably meet little grey beings called the Asgard and we'll all be fighting over something called a gate because having the gate is the ace card to get anywhere.

[Drone223]

You're again judging them with your all-knowing hindsight. The characters involved didn't have your wonderful hinsight when they made their decision. To them, at the time,it made sense to react the way they did. I'm going to give you an exemple you can hopefully understand. Imagine a policeman who happens on a robbering at night. The robber is carrying a gun. The robber points his gun at the policeman. The policeman reacts very fast and shots down the robber. Afterwards, the justice discovers the thief's gun was actually a really realistic toy, not a real gun. In hindsight, the cop shouldn't have killed the thief, but he had no idea when the events happened and reacted the only way he was supposed to.
Besides,stop trying to put words I didn't say in my mouth
 

In the citadel archives when the attack on the citadel is brought up it clearly refers to sovereign as a reaper. That would suggest that they knew about the reaper's.

 

 

 

Nope, repeating something over and over doesn't make it any truer or noteworthy when it isn't.

EDIT: My bad, it works for religions

 

If people didn't have problem with the asari hoarding prothean tech when they created a law which made it illegal to do so, they wouldn't bring it up.

 

 

Trying to use my own words against me now? I'd laugh if the attempt wasn't so pathetic. You obviously didn't read my argument or chose to deliberately ignore it. Once they decided to reveal the existence of the artifact, they had no reason whatsoever to withhold more information. They were losing daughters and sisters. They weren't about losing any more time saving them with sending Shepard on some wild goose chase if they could avoid it..

 

 

Instead of withholding the data till their homeworld was under attack they'd be better of sending the data or better yet the whole beacon to the crucible project. A lot of their people wouldn't have died had they not decided to keep its existence secret until the worst possible moment. Even Shepard can say that had they not withhold the beacon they might not be in the current situation they were in.

 

 

What I'm saying is that even if they sent a representative to the war summit, you wouldn't have been happy when they said they couldn't spare people to help the other races because they have to protect their interests (homeworld) first. Tell me, if your country was directly threatened by some other bigger and badder country and you had no hope of getting help from your allies, how would you feel if your army left and went to protect some other country on the other side of the planet? Would you agree with a government that left you, your home, family, friends at the mercy of the ennemy? So yes, essentially she would have just been PR. I suspect you would still be prejudiced against them, even though the Dalatrass is doing the same.
You know what? Keep on with your righteous self-delusion. I've got better things to do with my time, like finishing packing my suitcase and fly off to sunnier lands.

 

The asari reason's for not showing up (which is still bad see as how its a time of war) was because they think forming an alliance with the krogan and the turians was impossible not because they wanted to defend their own boarders. Seeing as how they have the largest economy in the galaxy and are also the most technologically advance species they could've easily provided logistical support during the earlier stages of the war but instead they did nothing.

[Wulfram]

The Asari are pretty much the only race to join the war effort before their own homeworld was attacked and without getting something in return.

[Drone223]

The Asari are pretty much the only race to join the war effort before their own homeworld was attacked and without getting something in return.

They only joined when the reaper's invaded their territory otherwise they were sitting on the sidelines, they were needed much early and not just their military capabilities. They were going to attend the war summit but decided not to when the krogan were invited.

[AlanC9]

That isn't actually a disagreement with Wulfram's point. The asari are in before Thessia is hit.