3626 réponses à ce sujet

[78stonewobble]

That's exactly the point, though. Character can be sexy without being sexualized. Sexualized is when you zoom in on Benezia's boobs in a highly tense and serious moment just to point out that she has great boobs and that you might want to have sex with her. If they did that without the ridiculous lingering, the player would just notice on their own "wow she has great boobs", without ruining the whole moment. That's the difference, imo.

 

Well... 

 

Sexy: sexually appealing, attractive, or exciting, sexually suggestive or stimulating. 

Sexualize: endow with sexual character or quality. 

 

In my humble oppinion, you cannot have "sexy", without having "sexualized" first. 

 

Mind you, this is something going on in the head of the beholder/"recipient". Eg. If I'm rubbing my feet because they're sore. It's not sexy or sexual in any way for me, but a foot fetichist looking at it, might think otherwise.

 

That person offcourse has some subjective taste that draws his/her eyes and make the person sexualize, find sexy, certain things/"attributes"/actions.

 

What I think you're arguing for, is letting that process, both of them, still happen... Just that the developer not force it, especially in non obivous instances. 

 

 

To be fair, there is a heightened awareness for stuff like that these days... I personally never noticed Benezia's "great boobs" or that there was an overt emphasis placed on them when I first played ME back in the day. I can't help to think some people should take a step back from time to time, and take a look at them self before decrying a developer for "over sexualizing" their characters.

 

 

True and I don't think the benezia scene was nearly as obvious and forced as the miranda thing. 

 

I'm actually not very good at sexualising people and finding them sexy. I'm the kind of person who goes from A to B in a straight line, keeping focus on what I need to do and If I look at other things... I notice old houses, the weather and/or philosophises about ... aerodynamics or something instead. I really rarely notice people, adds and what not... And I have a real hard time taking it seriously unless it's the one I'm into.

[Asari Goddess]

Hmmm I never knew there was a limit to how sexy someone can simply be...

[Rhaenyss]

To be fair, there is a heightened awareness for stuff like that these days... I personally never noticed Benezia's "great boobs" or that there was an overt emphasis placed on them when I first played ME back in the day. I can't help to think some people should take a step back from time to time, and take a look at them self before decrying a developer for "over sexualizing" their characters.

 

Well, good for you for not noticing, but literally the first shot of her is her giant cleavage on my giant screen. Hello, boobs. How can you not notice it?

 

EDIT: When we say here "sexualized", I think most of us think of a situation in which the intent is to immediately think "this is someone who is extremely f*uckable because we showed it to you as such", and it's just not natural to me. I want to decide that for myself, thank you.

[Asari Goddess]

Well, good for you for not noticing, but literally the first shot of her is her giant cleavage on my giant screen. Hello, boobs. How can you not notice it?

 

Oh goddess, Like who can notice Benezia's boobs

 

I'm surprised she didn't have a nip slip

[WildOrchid]

Just needs to be the right time and place... 

 

This, so much this. Also what bugged me about Miranda, Jacob, Samara, etc was that they didn't wore armor in battle. They can wear as much catsuits as they want and show a lot of skin when on rest, but in battle they should at least wear something that protects them.

[RawToast]

I don't mind if people are sexualised so long as it's equal between both genders. But it never has been in Mass effect. So either give me more male booty shots or stop it all together. 

[Vapaa]

Well, good for you for not noticing, but literally the first shot of her is her giant cleavage on my giant screen. Hello, boobs. How can you not notice it?

 

And that death scene, Jesus, that couldn't be more inappropriate.

[BraveVesperia]

For me it all depends on the individual character and situation.

• If they're in combat then sexuality shouldn't come into it. Especially if it's sort of a military operation, like the Inquisition or Shepard's crew. You dress for combat and environment, not sexual appeal. What they wear in Skyhold or on the Normandy is different (e.g. Vivienne wears a low cut top in Skyhold, and whatever you want her to wear in combat).
• It should be appropriate to the character's personality. Isabela and Varric's outfits in DA2 suited them perfectly. Putting Isabela's outfit on Merrill/Aveline, or Varric's outfit on Fenris/Anders would have felt ridiculous.
• The outfit should be physically possible to wear. See Morrigan in DAO or Samara. How do their boobs not fall out? Are they glued to the interior of their clothes? 
• Sexy doesn't need to mean skin. I think Kasumi's armour is sexy, but it's still practical. You can see her curves, but the outfit isn't welded to her (like Miranda) or completely exposed (like Jack).
• It should be fairly evenly distributed across men and women. See Varric and Isabela again. James' casual look was a better example of this than Jacob/Thane, who looked ridiculous.
• The camera shouldn't be zooming into the sexy feature (boobs, butts etc) to inform me that this character is sexy. I don't need a close-up of Miranda's arse in a normal conversation (i.e. not a romance one) to know that she's hot and has a big bum. People noticed Tali's great hips in ME1 and yet the camera never needed to zoom in and tell us.

 

To be fair, there is a heightened awareness for stuff like that these days... I personally never noticed Benezia's "great boobs" or that there was an overt emphasis placed on them when I first played ME back in the day. I can't help to think some people should take a step back from time to time, and take a look at them self before decrying a developer for "over sexualizing" their characters.

Tbh, you could turn that sentiment on its head and say: people were so oversaturated with sexualised characters in earlier video media, that they didn't notice when yet another pair of big exposed breasts made their way into the screen.

I mean, go back not to far and many more female characters were scantily clad for no reason.

[9TailsFox]

Hmmm I never knew there was a limit to how sexy someone can simply be...

[78stonewobble]

For me it all depends on the individual character and situation.

• If they're in combat then sexuality shouldn't come into it. Especially if it's sort of a military operation, like the Inquisition or Shepard's crew. You dress for combat and environment, not sexual appeal. What they wear in Skyhold or on the Normandy is different (e.g. Vivienne wears a low cut top in Skyhold, and whatever you want her to wear in combat).
• It should be appropriate to the character's personality. Isabela and Varric's outfits in DA2 suited them perfectly. Putting Isabela's outfit on Merrill/Aveline, or Varric's outfit on Fenris/Anders would have felt ridiculous.
• The outfit should be physically possible to wear. See Morrigan in DAO or Samara. How do their boobs not fall out? Are they glued to the interior of their clothes? 
• Sexy doesn't need to mean skin. I think Kasumi's armour is sexy, but it's still practical. You can see her curves, but the outfit isn't welded to her (like Miranda) or completely exposed (like Jack).
• It should be fairly evenly distributed across men and women. See Varric and Isabela again. James' casual look was a better example of this than Jacob/Thane, who looked ridiculous.
• The camera shouldn't be zooming into the sexy feature (boobs, butts etc) to inform me that this character is sexy. I don't need a close-up of Miranda's arse in a normal conversation (i.e. not a romance one) to know that she's hot and has a big bum. People noticed Tali's great hips in ME1 and yet the camera never needed to zoom in and tell us.

 

Tbh, you could turn that sentiment on its head and say: people were so oversaturated with sexualised characters in earlier video media, that they didn't notice when yet another pair of big exposed breasts made their way into the screen.

I mean, go back not to far and many more female characters were scantily clad for no reason.

 

At that very last bit... Sex sells IS ... a reason. 

 

To say otherwise, would be like me saying... There is no point or reason for fishermen, fishfactories, fishrestaurants, sushibars, advertisements for the above and so forth... because I don't like fish. 

[Rhaenyss]

Yeah, sex sells, but for me they've obviously missed their mark since I can't help but laugh at it. I'd rather have a proper naked steamy sex scene than catsuits in buttcheeks & anti gravity boobs.

[78stonewobble]

Yeah, sex sells, but for me they've obviously missed their mark since I can't help but laugh at it. I'd rather have a proper naked steamy sex scene than catsuits in buttcheeks & anti gravity boobs.

 

Presumably there are some that like that 2nd option there. I don't know how many... but if they wanna make the game for me (and you), they would tune it waaaay down at inappropriate times and keep it or turn it up even at the appropriate times. 

 

I think that's about all we can do... remind em what our tastes actually are... and then some poor pr girl/guy will have to run the numbers...  

[WarBaby2]

Tbh, you could turn that sentiment on its head and say: people were so oversaturated with sexualised characters in earlier video media, that they didn't notice when yet another pair of big exposed breasts made their way into the screen.

I mean, go back not to far and many more female characters were scantily clad for no reason.

...and nowadays, people have the option to take to the internet and b*tch about it, because personal tastes are law and "feelz are realz".

 

Sorry, but there is only one reason why more "oversexualized" characters where in games back then compared to today: Nobody cared as long as the game was good. Offense is never given, only taken, and it's no sign of a healthy society when the people start criticizing art and entertainment for it's moral/social acceptability rather then based on it's merits - and don't be fooled, that's all discussions like this are.

 

"Sexualization" is just another label you have been handed by insincere people to slap on stuff you don't like because you have been told not to like it... nothing more, nothing less. That's social engineering for you.

 

EDIT: Oh, and also: Compared to what movies did for at least 50 years now, sex in gaming is almost always laughable and childish, and BioWare is one of companies least proficient in that department...

[78stonewobble]

...and nowadays, people have the option to take to the internet and b*tch about it, because personal tastes are law and "feelz are realz".

 

Sorry, but there is only one reason why more "oversexualized" characters where in games back then compared to today: Nobody cared as long as the game was good. Offense is never given, only taken, and it's no sign of a healthy society when the people start criticizing art and entertainment for it's moral/social acceptability rather then based on it's merits - and don't be fooled, that's all discussions like this are.

 

"Sexualization" is just another label you have been handed by insincere people to slap on stuff you don't like because you have been told not to like it... nothing more, nothing less. That's social engineering for you.

 

I have to agree a little . 

 

EDIT and PS: It's like a poster for a gym, with some beefcake guy on it. 

 

There are a few options for taking that: 

 

A: I feel like looking like that is important to me, but I allready have a gym and/or look like it. Take it as a selfconfidence boost and mentally throw the add away.

 

B: I feel like looking like that is important to me, but I don't have a gym and/or don't allready look like it. In that case I do need a gym and mentally needs to remember the add. 

 

C: I feel like looking like that is completely irrelevant to me. Mentally throw out add and giggle to yourself about other peoples superficialness... 

 

D: I feel like looking like that is completely irrelevant to me and should be irrelevant to 7 billion other people as well and I will most definately tell other people what to feel and choose. Mentally cling to ad as fuel for righteous anger. 

 

... 

 

It's sad, presumtious and a waste of life/time/energy to pick option D. Ironically it would be, for most people, healthier to work that out in a gym.

[WarBaby2]

Doublepost.

[Gwydden]

...and nowadays, people have the option to take to the internet and b*tch about it, because personal tastes are law and "feelz are realz".

 

Sorry, but there is only one reason why more "oversexualized" characters where in games back then compared to today: Nobody cared as long as the game was good. Offense is never given, only taken, and it's no sign of a healthy society when the people start criticizing art and entertainment for it's moral/social acceptability rather then based on it's merits - and don't be fooled, that's all discussions like this are.

 

"Sexualization" is just another label you have been handed by insincere people to slap on stuff you don't like because you have been told not to like it... nothing more, nothing less. That's social engineering for you.

 

EDIT: Oh, and also: Compared to what movies did for at least 50 years now, sex in gaming is almost always laughable and childish, and BioWare is one of companies least proficient in that department...

The default response to "I'm offended" should always be "I don't care".

[Nethalf]

I give no crap about nudity. But there's one rule about Dragon Age: the less nudity, the worse a game is. DAO (mini skirts + exposed midsection) > DA2 (Isabela) > DAI (no skin revealing at all).

 

It's like a law of some sort. 

 

 

But seriously, I would never understand people that concerned with such things realistic combat or any other physical impossibilities. I don't care if a boar can't actually sing Hakuna Matata, I just watch and listen and enjoy.

[Rhaenyss]

Now you're gonna tell me wedgies are art  We wouldn't even be having this conversation if her butt line was drawn to be physically possible and they were more careful with camera angles, as in "zoom into the butt/cleavage when it makes sense". I'm not offended in the way you think I am, it just offends my taste & interrupts my gameplay.

[Gwydden]

Now you're gonna tell me wedgies are art  We wouldn't even be having this conversation if her butt line was drawn to be physically possible and they were more careful with camera angles, as in "zoom into the butt/cleavage when it makes sense". I'm not offended in the way you think I am, it just offends my taste & interrupts my gameplay.

Oh, you sweet summer child...

[WarBaby2]

Now you're gonna tell me wedgies are art  We wouldn't even be having this conversation if her butt line was drawn to be physically possible and they were more careful with camera angles, as in "zoom into the butt/cleavage when it makes sense". I'm not offended in the way you think I am, it just offends my taste & interrupts my gameplay.

Yea, well, so you don't like it and that's fine... YOU is the operative word here, though. The gameplay is not generally/objectively disrupted by it, it just is for YOU. Is that a problem the game has?

 

I was quite disturbed by the horrible Miranda "sex scene" in ME2, because it was so laughably, badly censored they could have left it out in the first place... still, that's no problem with the game, I (and many others, I'd imagine) just didn't like that scene. Not the failure of the game though...

 

You see how that works?

[SnakeCode]

I have to agree a little . 

 

EDIT and PS: It's like a poster for a gym, with some beefcake guy on it. 

 

There are a few options for taking that: 

 

A: I feel like looking like that is important to me, but I allready have a gym and/or look like it. Take it as a selfconfidence boost and mentally throw the add away.

 

B: I feel like looking like that is important to me, but I don't have a gym and/or don't allready look like it. In that case I do need a gym and mentally needs to remember the add. 

 

C: I feel like looking like that is completely irrelevant to me. Mentally throw out add and giggle to yourself about other peoples superficialness... 

 

D: I feel like looking like that is completely irrelevant to me and should be irrelevant to 7 billion other people as well and I will most definately tell other people what to feel and choose. Mentally cling to ad as fuel for righteous anger. 

 

... 

 

It's sad, presumtious and a waste of life/time/energy to pick option D. Ironically it would be, for most people, healthier to work that out in a gym.

 

You're doing it wrong. Option E is to get offended, the fit, attractive guy is clearly body shaming you/anyone that doesn't look like that, and it's your job to let it be known. Vandalise the poster and any others you find, take to the internet and decry that gym. Do your bit!

[Panda]

I give no crap about nudity. But there's one rule about Dragon Age: the less nudity, the worse a game is. DAO (mini skirts + exposed midsection) > DA2 (Isabela) > DAI (no skin revealing at all).

 

It's like a law of some sort. 

 

 

But seriously, I would never understand people that concerned with such things realistic combat or any other physical impossibilities. I don't care if a boar can't actually sing Hakuna Matata, I just watch and listen and enjoy.

 

Are you sure that it goes like that with DA games? DAO had sex scenes with underwear on. DAI had most nudity, Cullen, Bull, Dorian and Sera without anything on in some scenes and you can see Cassandra's boobs as well. I'm pretty sure that DAI is the game with most nudity from the three.

[78stonewobble]

You're doing it wrong. Option E is to get offended, the fit, attractive guy is clearly body shaming you/anyone that doesn't look like that, and it's your job to let it be known. Vandalise the poster and any others you find, take to the internet and decry that gym. Do your bit!

 

... I find it much easier to think I look like that, just under the padding... so much padding... 

[Nethalf]

Are you sure that it goes like that with DA games? DAO had sex scenes with underwear on. DAI had most nudity, Cullen, Bull, Dorian and Sera without anything on in some scenes and you can see Cassandra's boobs as well. I'm pretty sure that DAI is the game with most nudity from the three.

Nudity in sex scenes means next to nothing. Not everybody saw that 'cause some people don't like romances and some stop playing before sex scenes become available.

On the contrary, combat outfit is something everyone sees 90% of the time he spends in the games. And combat outfits are more revealing in DAO, less revealing in DA2, and not revealing at all in DAI.

[Panda]

Nudity in sex scenes means next to nothing. Not everybody saw that 'cause some people don't like romances and some stop playing before sex scenes become available.

On the contrary, combat outfit is something everyone sees 90% of the time he spends in the games. And combat outfits are more revealing in DAO, less revealing in DA2, and not revealing at all in DAI.

 

I would call it progress though especially when looking designs of many of these revealing armors of DAO. Overall I doubt revealing armor is the reason why lot of  people like DAO most from the series.