3626 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

I doubt that.

 

If realism is your true concern, then ALL aspects about ME that were unrealistic/immersion breaking should be addressed, but that isn't happening. Instead, you all just want to focus on ONE aspect while at the same time essentially ignoring all other unrealistic aspects of ME. Again, this is why I say this is more about prude sensitivities rather than a legitimate argument.

 

Try harder.

 

HAH!

 

I've got you now.

 

I've made several threads addressing the unrealistic aspects, the plotholes and the deus ex machina in ME. I mention those things in every second thread.

 

I'm not even remotely prude, my crew could walk around naked and have flings with each other left and right for all I care... but I want them wearing a hermetically sealed suit when we land on a planet with toxic atmosphere. You can still make those look good, no one is demanding bulky, ugly armor.

[Malleficae]

I'm not even remotely prude, my crew could walk around naked and have flings with each other left and right for all I care... but I want them wearing a hermetically sealed suit when we land on a planet with toxic atmosphere. You can still make those look good, no one is demanding bulky, ugly armor.

 

But it's great idea to walk with boobs-window and small mask covering only your mouth when you're on toxic planets. Trust me. Especially if you want to die. c:

 

^{I'm really open for fancy clothing outside battlefield. On battlefield don't go fancy, go practical or you might die.}

[Gwydden]

I'm not even remotely prude, my crew could walk around naked and have flings with each other left and right for all I care... but I want them wearing a hermetically sealed suit when we land on a planet with toxic atmosphere. You can still make those look good, no one is demanding bulky, ugly armor.

That'd be nice. But seeing as this is a game, I'm sure we can find a compromise between practical and good looking armor, right? Also, a more casual outfit for inside the ship and urban areas would be most appreciated. Personally I don't care so much about how the companions dress. But one of the big reasons I almost always play rogues or mages in DA is because I don't like heavy armor. Those are all just preferences, though.

 

Thing is, the issue you're describing is separate from sexualization. Ashley's armor in ME3 is sexualized, but it does look like it can withstand a hostile environment. Mordin's armor in ME2 doesn't, but it could hardly be called sexualized. But then, sexualization is in the eye of the beholder. And people treating it as an issue is something that really bothers me.

[Pasquale1234]

Things that ruin my immersion way more than skimpy outfits ever could hope to do:

• <snip>

Most of your list consists of things that are established as world lore, easily avoided, commonly used tools in fiction, and/or subject to interpretation.

The world lore in Mass Effect establishes some pretty clear standards wrt armor, what is needed for shield generation and maintenance, maintenance of biotic fields, etc. It also establishes not only hazardous conditions in some environments, but also the obvious fact that teammates are under fire.

For some squadmates to step into hazardous, hostile environments sans protective armor is in direct conflict with world lore.
 

To mention just a few. Most of the ME2 wearing informal wear when most of them would operate in urban areas anyway? I can live with it. This is why I don't take complains against skimpy outfits seriously. ME as a series has never been realistic. I don't think people complaining about this are being as objective as they think they are.

One could make the same claim about your list, no?

Everyone has their own individual limits wrt suspension of disbelief, and some things push some envelopes more than others. Some of those envelopes are pushed for story reasons; the lack of protective armor envelope is pushed primarily to display T&A or because the devs prioritized designing unique character costumes over designing armor for them.

Ultimately, a lot of this has to do with personal values. I personally place a pretty high value on preparation, and being properly equipped to do the job I set out to do. I also tend to role-play characters whose leadership style includes empowering her subordinates with proper training and gear. ME2 flat-out denied me that opportunity, which is one of the reasons that it is dead last in my ranking of the 3 games.

[Malleficae]

But then, sexualization is in the eye of the beholder. And people treating it as an issue is something that really bothers me.

 

Samara, Jack and Miranda have outfits that show too much. Somehow Jack doesn't feel that sexy as Miranda and she has only belt covering her breast. How does that magic works? Context. Tons of Miri's butt-shots worked and you can see a lot of "dat ass" memes around her while Samara seems to have same ass and isn't that popular. Body isn't problem. Our perspective is and perspective some people (cough, devs, cough) enforce on us.

 

I'm playing games since I was very small and it really shaped my view on human body. We are what we experienced and this experience helps no one. I'm open for boobs and butts as long as they aren't all what character is.

[DaemionMoadrin]

We're repeating arguments that were made in this thread a dozen times already. If everyone new to the topic could just read the thread instead of putting the discussion on a loop, this all would be much less irritating.

[Gwydden]

Most of your list consists of things that are established as world lore, 

Several items in my list are regarding times when world lore was contradicted.

 

easily avoided,

Questionable.

 

commonly used tools in fiction,

Deus Ex Machinas and Mary Sues are commonly used tools in fiction, yes. They are also staples of poor writing. I don't think the former negates the latter.

 

and/or subject to interpretation.

Almost everything is subject to interpretation, even the practicality of certain types of armor.

 

The world lore in Mass Effect establishes some pretty clear standards wrt armor, what is needed for shield generation and maintenance, maintenance of biotic fields, etc. It also establishes not only hazardous conditions in some environments, but also the obvious fact that teammates are under fire.

For some squadmates to step into hazardous, hostile environments sans protective armor is in direct conflict with world lore.

The lore of ME establishes all kinds of things that it later drops down the drain. Again, consistency, realism, all that jazz? Not a strong point with Bioware games.

 

Yes, squadmates wearing certain types of armor in hazardous environments doesn't make sense. But let's take a look at the most egregious offender in sexy and/or impractical armor, ME2. Most of the action takes place in (drumroll, please), urban hubs. Huh. I wonder if there is a connection there.

 

One could make the same claim about your list, no?

So you concede your request is entirely subjective? If so, I don't take issue with it.

[Malleficae]

We're repeating arguments that were made in this thread a dozen times already. If everyone new to the topic could just read the thread instead of putting the discussion on a loop, this all would be much less irritating.

 

This thread is no more about sexualization. It's for lonely people that need attention so they write here. I'm lonely and my cat denies petting by sleep. Help. q.q

 

[Gwydden]

Samara, Jack and Miranda have outfits that show too much. Somehow Jack doesn't feel that sexy as Miranda and she has only belt covering her breast. How does that magic works? Context. Tons of Miri's butt-shots worked and you can see a lot of "dat ass" memes around her while Samara seems to have same ass and isn't that popular. Body isn't problem. Our perspective is and perspective some people (cough, devs, cough) enforce on us.

 

I'm playing games since I was very small and it really shaped my view on human body. We are what we experienced and this experience helps no one. I'm open for boobs and butts as long as they aren't all what character is.

ME is not meant to be played by children, as the big M in the cover implies.

 

The butt shots are obviously a joke. I found it inappropriate and juvenile, and I still consider Miranda to be "sexy". I very much that what you propose is the reason Jack's typically consider not "as sexy". This may be shocking to hear, but people are not stupid and as such, not as easy to manipulate as you suggest.

 

We're repeating arguments that were made in this thread a dozen times already. If everyone new to the topic could just read the thread instead of putting the discussion on a loop, this all would be much less irritating.

This is a 125 pages long thread. I understand your frustration, but repetition is the gist of Internet discussions. Trust me, I've repeated myself quite a few times as well 

[dreamgazer]

Of course it has never been realistic. It's very soft sci-fi, almost fantasy in some regard. And yes, there were lots of nonsensical things in the trilogy.
 
That doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, you still need to have internal consistency.
 
Your argument boils down to "Well, the main supports for the house are faulty, so who cares if the roof is on fire?" There is already so much unrealistic stuff in ME, why should we accept something like skimpy outfits when that's changed easily? The game doesn't get better by being 100% unrealistic.

Precisely. Well said.

(Emphasis placed on the entire trilogy. Some of the things from that list should've irreparably destroyed immersion in ME1 alone, let alone ME2).

[ArianaGBSA]

Like seriously, I'm going to be cringing if we have characters running around in stiletto's, catsuits, spandex, etc. 

 

Not to mention exposed skin in combat and outer space

 

EDIT: I am mainly referring to the combat outfits, casual outfits are ok

EDIT 2: This has nothing to do with being politically correct, as I could care less about that bullcrap. This is about logic and practicality

EDIT 3: If you are going to bring up feminism, Anita Sarkesian, or any of the gamergate, feminism gaming war bullcrap, then please feel free to get the **** off my thread.

I'm ok with Bioware not making any oversexualized NPCs as long as they allow us to make oversexualized PCs. It is the thing I miss the most in their games. I'm ok with not making women sexual objects or furniture, in fact they can SJW all the way, as long as I, as the player, can oversexualize MY CHARACTER. In DAI I had to wait for the last 2 DLCs to find even a low level of femininity in armor, at least I got a bit of it =(
If they want to make all women in multiple galaxies bald, fat, black, lesbian, trans and whatever else they have in mind to help the opressed, I'm ok with that as long as I can be a beacon of femininity and hollywoodian standards for women

In short, whatever they do I want to be pretty (considering the most common capitalist machist white oppressive standards)

Oh, and well, if I wanted logic and practicality I'd play a game called real world. It is huge, amazing and with endless possibilities, things no other game engine can handle, have fun with it. Try beign hit by a weapon without proper gear and you will be heavily injured or dead, CRAZY REAL, really, give it a try!

[Majestic Jazz]

As of yet, nobody has proven how sexy outfits ruins the immersion when there are MANY other immersion breaking aspects about ME that nobody addresses.

 

 

Again, prudish topic is prudish. 

 

 

But then again this IS the Bioware fanbase that I am preaching to so I shouldn't be surprised. 

[Gwydden]

Of course it has never been realistic. It's very soft sci-fi, almost fantasy in some regard. And yes, there were lots of nonsensical things in the trilogy.

 

That doesn't mean you can do whatever you want, you still need to have internal consistency.

 

Your argument boils down to "Well, the main supports for the house are faulty, so who cares if the roof is on fire?" There is already so much unrealistic stuff in ME, why should we accept something like skimpy outfits when that's changed easily? The game doesn't get better by being 100% unrealistic.

Actually, the devs can do whatever they want. Perks of the job.

 

And what internal consistency? Unrealistic outfits? Pretty omnipresent in the trilogy.

 

And no, my argument is "we're kinda drowning, so maybe we can worry about being wet later?"

 

PS: Sorry, missed this earlier.

[dreamgazer]

As of yet, nobody has proven how sexy outfits ruins the immersion when there are MANY other immersion breaking aspects about ME that nobody addresses.
 
Again, prudish topic is prudish.

Nothing at all prudish about it, as folks have already repeatedly stated.

[DaemionMoadrin]

As of yet, nobody has proven how sexy outfits ruins the immersion when there are MANY other immersion breaking aspects about ME that nobody addresses.

 

 

Again, prudish topic is prudish. 

 

Oh, so you're going to ignore the arguments I brought up earlier? Tsk.

 

This thread is about overly sexualized characters. No one is arguing against sexualisation, the argument here is that it should not be taken so far that it affects other aspects of the game.

 

 

Actually, the devs can do whatever they want. Perks of the job.

 

And what internal consistency? Unrealistic outfits? Pretty omnipresent in the trilogy.

 

And no, my argument is "we're kinda drowning, so maybe we can worry about being wet later?"

 

PS: Sorry, missed this earlier.

 

Unrealistic outfits weren't present in ME1. You went out into a hazardous environment and everyone was wearing a full suit with a closed helmet. Everyone.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Btw... Majestic Jazz?

 

Since "nobody" addresses these other issues... why don't you have a look at these?

 

http://forum.bioware...or-meandromeda/

 

http://forum.bioware...fect-andromeda/

 

Since those issues are ignored, reading non-existent threads shouldn't take you long, eh?

[dreamgazer]

We're repeating arguments that were made in this thread a dozen times already. If everyone new to the topic could just read the thread instead of putting the discussion on a loop, this all would be much less irritating.

BSN in a nutshell.

[Gwydden]

Unrealistic outfits weren't present in ME1. You went out into a hazardous environment and everyone was wearing a full suit with a closed helmet. Everyone.

Ah, lovely Noveria! Pack your best bikini and fanciest dress and relish your time at our special, one of a kind, bug infested resort. You are bound to love our way below zero temperatures! If hostile visitors arrive, be sure to welcome them in your very best look!

 

Sure, squadmates didn't have that problem, but that's only because ME1 had an inventory system that allowed you to modify their armor. The same can be said of DAO. In ME2, a. characters had set outfits, b. most of them work in jobs that wouldn't have required them to wear heavy armor, and c. most of the game took place in urban hubs. See why I don't have a big problem with it?

 

Sure, once they got into hazardous environments, their clothes were ridiculous. I think it could have been done better. However, they didn't spend much time in that type of location. Because so much of the game happened in places like Omega, Illium, and the Citadel I found the fact that Shepard wore his N7 armor everywhere much more grating.

 

Since MEA seems to be gearing up to be about exploring untamed wilderness I expect armor will be designed with that in mind. And I certainly hope that will be the case. Again, my only corollaries to that would be a. remember to include casual outfits for when we're on the ship or in cities and b. allow armors to be customizable so they look less bulky, less Imperium of Man and more like, say, this.

[Majestic Jazz]

BSN in a nutshell.

 

Yup, the same community that had many posters in an uproar because the female concept art for MEA was in a pose that was "too sexy". Yeah like I said, prudish.

 

 

[dreamgazer]

Yup, the same community that had many posters in an uproar because the female concept art for MEA was in a pose that was "too sexy". Yeah like I said, prudish.

Where was this "uproar"?

There's a world of difference between static poses on a poster and wearing proper attire into hostile environments, though.

I agree: getting sincerely bent outta shape over that poster would be classified as "prudish".

[Gwydden]

Where was this "uproar"?

There's a world of difference between static poses on a poster and wearing proper attire into hostile environments, though.

I agree: getting sincerely bent outta shape over that poster would be classified as "prudish".

Not to mention the guy has the Pose! Y'know, that pose that gets people really pissed off, when female characters show their ass and their face at the same time? Could Bioware possibly be showing off its misandry and rabid obsession with objectifying men?

 

Jokes aside, I'm sure we can at least find a common ground in that people exploring a dangerous  planet shouldn't be dressed like this, but there's no need to go like this either?

[dreamgazer]

Jokes aside, I'm sure we can at least find a common ground in that people exploring a dangerous  planet shouldn't be dressed like this, but there's no need to go like this either?

Absolutely.

[Majestic Jazz]

Where was this "uproar"?

 

 

It was immediately following E3 which was around the time that image was released. Apparently, many people did not like how Bioware was "sexualizing" the female soldier.

[SnakeCode]

I love when people stop using the word realism and switch to "internal consistency," like it makes their argument any less fallacious.

[ArianaGBSA]

Not to mention the guy has the Pose! Y'know, that pose that gets people really pissed off, when female characters show their ass and their face at the same time? Could Bioware possibly be showing off its misandry and rabid obsession with objectifying men?

 

Jokes aside, I'm sure we can at least find a common ground in that people exploring a dangerous  planet shouldn't be dressed like this, but there's no need to go like this either?

For NPCs, whatever.
For PCs it is obvious we should have choice between dressing as stripper, a nun, a barbarian or hulkbuster. All very futuristic, sci fi and stuff of course. What I don't get is limiting the player's possibilities, I mean, since recent Bioware games are very hard to mod. If they were mod friendly I would just ignore Bioware restrictions without complaining (like I do in Skyrim and Fallout)