3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Pasquale1234]

Like I said, it's out of control and it degrades their products. I have no problem if someone wants to go all fanservice, but do anime's like One Piece really need sexualization they have gone through? Does Eiichiro Oda really need to waste half of fan question answers on how big Nami's boobs have become and does Luffy's dick stretch? Lot of things I love have been infected by this in Japan and it's always sad that you have to facepalm half of the time you are watching your favorite anime's.

BTDT many times, though not with anime in particular (I don't do anime).

What I mean is becoming involved and uber-interested in some fictional works that start going off in some direction that is contrary to my interests. I can overlook / ignore about so much and still enjoy the works presented - but when it starts to feel like continued engagement is an assault on my sensibilities, it's time to walk away.

[Panda]

BTDT many times, though not with anime in particular (I don't do anime).

What I mean is becoming involved and uber-interested in some fictional works that start going off in some direction that is contrary to my interests. I can overlook / ignore about so much and still enjoy the works presented - but when it starts to feel like continued engagement is an assault on my sensibilities, it's time to walk away.

 

Yep same for me. I love One Piece as anime and manga, but I feel like the fanservice is getting worse and it really feels tiring to having to overlook so much stuff in order to enjoy the thing. That's why I'd like Japan side really listen some critic, since this critic isn't something malicious, bad or xenophobic.. it comes from people who love the thing, but feel like they have to overlook too much in order to enjoy it.

[Hazegurl]

Like I said, it's out of control and it degrades their products. I have no problem if someone wants to go all fanservice, but do anime's like One Piece really need sexualization they have gone through? Does Eiichiro Oda really need to waste half of fan question answers on how big Nami's boobs have become and does Luffy's dick stretch? Lot of things I love have been infected by this in Japan and it's always sad that you have to facepalm half of the time you are watching your favorite anime's.

Or maybe the product just isn't for you anymore and that's all.  If millions of people keep watching it, and asking those questions then it obviously appeals to them, just not you.  Just because something isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean the product is degraded overall. It just degraded for you.  I love yaoi fan service in anime even when the anime isn't a yaoi. That appeals to me, meanwhile other fans are bitching about how their favorite show is now ruined because they showed two guys almost kiss.  I find that no one truly has an issue with fan service, just fan service that doesn't appeal to them personally. 

[SmilesJA]

But you do realize this goes both ways? Just as they're free to do whatever they want with their games, the people also have the right to complain. It's up to them to decide what direction they're taking. It's the same with this thread -- people complain, but it's up to Bioware to asses what they're going to do with it. Idk, I think it sucks to tell people that they shouldn't criticize something just because developers should keep their artistic integrity no matter what (??!) I don't see those same people saying the same about the ME3 ending in all those numerous "ending" threads, lol.

 

While what you say its true, I do believe that people reserve the right to criticize critics, especially if they come across as xenophobic or just plain wrong with their criticism.

[Panda]

Or maybe the product just isn't for you anymore and that's all.  If millions of people keep watching it, and asking those questions then it obviously appeals to them, just not you.  Just because something isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean the product is degraded overall. It just degraded for you.  I love yaoi fan service in anime even when the anime isn't a yaoi. That appeals to me, meanwhile other fans are bitching about how their favorite show is now ruined because they showed two guys almost kiss.  I find that no one truly has an issue with fan service, just fan service that doesn't appeal to them personally. 

 

Or maybe I have 1) grown-up 2) realised that I can critic these things and there is lot of people who critic them also.

 

Product isn't for me doesn't help, cause there is no alternative. Popularity also doesn't mean that things are right and that this fanservice doesn't become disturbing and tasteless at times.

 

I do have issue with the fanservice when it's degrading the overall content. It can become very tasteless at times. I get that there is some fanservice animes and games aimed highly for certain group of people and that's okay, but again One Piece, pretty much read and watched from all ages and genres.. does it really need or should have all the fanservice it has?

 

EDIT: This is going bit off-topic, hmm..

[SmilesJA]

Or maybe I have 1) grown-up 2) realised that I can critic these things and there is lot of people who critic them also.

 

Product isn't for me doesn't help, cause there is no alternative. Popularity also doesn't mean that things are right and that this fanservice doesn't become disturbing and tasteless at times.

 

 

 

It's not right to YOU, but not to others who enjoy fanservice.

[Panda]

I guess in general to bring this to topic, I think West has benefited from criticism games have got towards fanservice and sexualization. Some likely will disagree, but in my point of view there has been clear improvements in gaming. Same with comics. However Japan lacks this criticism or it simply ignores it, it's untouched by it and I feel like content that is produced in Japan, but also other East-Asian countries would need this criticism and reflect their content with it. I think outcome would lead to something positive rather than negative. Without the criticism it seems like gaming and anime side of Japan just goes overboard with fanservice.

 

In general I don't mind if there is clear fanservice game like sexy anime women playing volleyball in bikinis (I think this is actual game) or anime's that are all about fanservice for girls, but that fanservice doesn't have to be everywhere especially in amounts it appears. There is nothing to gain by covering half of the screen with Kallen's butt (Code Geass) everytime she fights and there is nothing to gain from Eiichiro Oda to pump up volume of Nami's boobs (One Piece) every year OP goes on. Or at least nothing worth while.

[Panda]

It's not right to YOU, but not to others who enjoy fanservice.

 

There is time and place for fanservice. In general I do enjoy some of it, but not when it cheapens the content or is disturbing in some way. But I guess my other post explains it more.

[Iakus]

Or maybe the product just isn't for you anymore and that's all.  If millions of people keep watching it, and asking those questions then it obviously appeals to them, just not you.  Just because something isn't your cup of tea doesn't mean the product is degraded overall. It just degraded for you.  I love yaoi fan service in anime even when the anime isn't a yaoi. That appeals to me, meanwhile other fans are bitching about how their favorite show is now ruined because they showed two guys almost kiss.  I find that no one truly has an issue with fan service, just fan service that doesn't appeal to them personally. 

 

"THis isn't for you anymore"

 

Nice way of saying "I like it, so go away"

[Pasquale1234]

In general I don't mind if there is clear fanservice game like sexy anime women playing volleyball in bikinis (I think this is actual game) or anime's that are all about fanservice for girls, but that fanservice doesn't have to be everywhere especially in amounts it appears.

That's the problem I have with it.

I don't care that things like Bayonetta exist - I can easily avoid them.

But it's frustrating when that sort of fanservice starts to permeate media I've formerly enjoyed. My only options then are to complain to the publishers, put up with it, or walk away.

[Ahglock]

There is time and place for fanservice. In general I do enjoy some of it, but not when it cheapens the content or is disturbing in some way. But I guess my other post explains it more.

I haven't really noticed it in one piece. Not that I didn't notice bigger boobs but in that it is a small enough part of it that it has not impacted the manga or anime for me. I'm not Up to Japan's anime timeline yet so that may change.

Overall though I'll agree with your point.

[Han Shot First]

There is a big difference between sexy and sexualized. 

[Kroitz]

Put seven layers off clothes on everybody and give the option to undress everybody.

 

Cause that´s what I´ll do.

[Hazegurl]

Or maybe I have 1) grown-up 2) realised that I can critic these things and there is lot of people who critic them also.

 

Product isn't for me doesn't help, cause there is no alternative. Popularity also doesn't mean that things are right and that this fanservice doesn't become disturbing and tasteless at times.

 

I do have issue with the fanservice when it's degrading the overall content. It can become very tasteless at times. I get that there is some fanservice animes and games aimed highly for certain group of people and that's okay, but again One Piece, pretty much read and watched from all ages and genres.. does it really need or should have all the fanservice it has?

 

EDIT: This is going bit off-topic, hmm..

If you have outgrown the product then you have simply outgrown it.  Asking them to now cater to you when you have grown out of their demographic is like asking Dora the Explorer to add adult content because you've grown up.

 

I don't think there is a problem with criticizing the product.  We're all just voicing our own opinions.  IMO, I see no reason why any Japanese animator should bother to change their product to suit Western tastes.  Especially considering the fact that Western audiences contribute next to nothing in revenue for the products they have.  If the product is made to suit the tastes of Japanese audiences, then you adapt if you wish to continue partaking in the product.

 

Any product should have all the fan service it wants. It's there to please those who want it.  It's up to you to decide not to watch if you don't like it.  This is coming from a person who stopped watching a lot of anime because I got sick of the "High school boy finds pretty big boobed alien girl and get super powerz!" trope that's like in 90% of all animes now.  I want more anime starring adults, or at least something different.  So I enjoy the few gems I have and leave the rest alone.

 

 

"THis isn't for you anymore"

 

Nice way of saying "I like it, so go away"

Nice try but it isn't. It's simply the truth.  I hate DAI, but still acknowledge that BW will do whatever gets them GOTY, and if other people like it then I have to simply move on.  I complain because I actually paid money for it.

 

I see no point in demanding that a company cater to you when:

 

a. You most likely aren't even paying for it. Which is the case for a vast majority of Western anime fans.

 

b. When you have clearly outgrown the demographic the product is intended for.

 

c. Not even apart of the culture of the demographic the product is intended for.

 

Sure One Piece may be for all ages, but different cultures just have different standards for what they consider suitable for all ages.

 

Back on topic. I see nothing wrong in complaining about a Japanese made video game you paid for and is intended to suit a global market.

[Felya87]

There is a big difference between sexy and sexualized.

This is true. A character like Lara Croft in the last games is sexy. A character like Samara is sexualized.

[PhroXenGold]

I guess in general to bring this to topic, I think West has benefited from criticism games have got towards fanservice and sexualization. Some likely will disagree, but in my point of view there has been clear improvements in gaming. Same with comics. However Japan lacks this criticism or it simply ignores it, it's untouched by it and I feel like content that is produced in Japan, but also other East-Asian countries would need this criticism and reflect their content with it. I think outcome would lead to something positive rather than negative. Without the criticism it seems like gaming and anime side of Japan just goes overboard with fanservice.

 

In general I don't mind if there is clear fanservice game like sexy anime women playing volleyball in bikinis (I think this is actual game) or anime's that are all about fanservice for girls, but that fanservice doesn't have to be everywhere especially in amounts it appears. There is nothing to gain by covering half of the screen with Kallen's butt (Code Geass) everytime she fights and there is nothing to gain from Eiichiro Oda to pump up volume of Nami's boobs (One Piece) every year OP goes on. Or at least nothing worth while.

 

Completely agree. I've watched, and enjoyed, a fair few fanservice-centric shows, but it really annoys me when ridiculous levels of it appear in otherwise relatively serious shows. I don't mind the characters being attractive or anything, but when you get the kind of stuff in your examples, it's frankly pathetic.

[Iakus]

There is a big difference between sexy and sexualized. 

Can't like twice so I'll add a "this"

[SnakeCode]

That's the problem I have with it.

I don't care that things like Bayonetta exist - I can easily avoid them.

But it's frustrating when that sort of fanservice starts to permeate media I've formerly enjoyed. My only options then are to complain to the publishers, put up with it, or walk away.

 

That's the thing though, nothing is permeatiing into videogames. Sexualised characters have always and (unfortunately for you lot) will always exist in gaming.The only difference being that the technology is now vastly superior, meaning that the sexualisation is now more realistic. It's all for one simple reason too, sex sells, and that's never going to change.

[Panda]

I haven't really noticed it in one piece. Not that I didn't notice bigger boobs but in that it is a small enough part of it that it has not impacted the manga or anime for me. I'm not Up to Japan's anime timeline yet so that may change.

Overall though I'll agree with your point.

 

There is some annoying fanservice moments, usually when female characters go to bathe and male characters turn to peeping toms.. but then again that's such cliche that I just roll my eyes. In general it has started to bother me after time skip, I'm not sure if you are still watching OP before or after it. Timeskip changes everyone's look a bit and made every female characters boob half bigger than they were. You can google if you want after timeskip looks and decide yourself if they have changed more fanservicey way or not ^^

 

If you have outgrown the product then you have simply outgrown it.  Asking them to now cater to you when you have grown out of their demographic is like asking Dora the Explorer to add adult content because you've grown up.

 

I don't think there is a problem with criticizing the product.  We're all just voicing our own opinions.  IMO, I see no reason why any Japanese animator should bother to change their product to suit Western tastes.  Especially considering the fact that Western audiences contribute next to nothing in revenue for the products they have.  If the product is made to suit the tastes of Japanese audiences, then you adapt if you wish to continue partaking in the product.

 

Any product should have all the fan service it wants. It's there to please those who want it.  It's up to you to decide not to watch if you don't like it.  This is coming from a person who stopped watching a lot of anime because I got sick of the "High school boy finds pretty big boobed alien girl and get super powerz!" trope that's like in 90% of all animes now.  I want more anime starring adults, or at least something different.  So I enjoy the few gems I have and leave the rest alone.

 

I'm not necessary asking them to cater me in particular. I'm giving criticism towards things I love most over things that I dislike most about them.

 

I don't think it's western taste in particular, it's just lack of same kind of criticism and different hmm, atmosphere?

 

I have given up so many things and forced myself to ignore so many things in order to have at least something to enjoy that it is problem to me. There simply is lack of things  that interest me and don't have things I find annoying or disturbing. Sometimes you do find those gems, but finding them is like swimming through trash and trying to find that gem somewhere there. It's like that with games, comics and anime, but more in anime than other medias and reason for that is that criticism has helped both comics and games here in West. I think same criticism would likely help Japan to make their products better, but like I have said earlier I don't have much hope that it will happen.

 

Completely agree. I've watched, and enjoyed, a fair few fanservice-centric shows, but it really annoys me when ridiculous levels of it appear in otherwise relatively serious shows. I don't mind the characters being attractive or anything, but when you get the kind of stuff in your examples, it's frankly pathetic.

 

Yep. I enjoy some fanservice shows myself, but it really depends how well they are made and how fanservice fits to them. In shows like Code Geass which is pretty serious show otherwise it's mostly annoying.

 

 

>Finally if I would bring this back to Bioware, i think some stuff I have said also go with them. Criticism to do better (given in thread like these), discussion on what fanservice cheapens the product and is out of place (Miranda's buttshots while she's being worried about her sister and outfits that don't fit in the radiation/combat situations) and when the fanservice has been good and in right places (like in romances). Overall I think that there has been some going overboard with fanservice in ME as well and I have commented on that, though also in general I'm harsher to Bioware with this than to Japanese companies for example, since I have more trust and hope for Bioware in these things than Japanese gaming companies who hasn't been showing much interest in listening this type of criticism.

[SmilesJA]

I guess in general to bring this to topic, I think West has benefited from criticism games have got towards fanservice and sexualization. Some likely will disagree, but in my point of view there has been clear improvements in gaming. Same with comics. However Japan lacks this criticism or it simply ignores it, it's untouched by it and I feel like content that is produced in Japan, but also other East-Asian countries would need this criticism and reflect their content with it. I think outcome would lead to something positive rather than negative. Without the criticism it seems like gaming and anime side of Japan just goes overboard with fanservice.

 

In general I don't mind if there is clear fanservice game like sexy anime women playing volleyball in bikinis (I think this is actual game) or anime's that are all about fanservice for girls, but that fanservice doesn't have to be everywhere especially in amounts it appears. There is nothing to gain by covering half of the screen with Kallen's butt (Code Geass) everytime she fights and there is nothing to gain from Eiichiro Oda to pump up volume of Nami's boobs (One Piece) every year OP goes on. Or at least nothing worth while.

 

Again it's a culture difference, the Japanese just don't find (what you consider) overboard fanservice as degrading as people on the west do. 

[Demonique]

I had her change outfits so it wasn't visible anymore. Only worked on missions though, they all still wore their old outfits on board.

 

Edi's ****** isn't visible onboard though, it's only really visible in one particular outfit, she doesn't wear anything onboard the Normandy, when she's not wearing anything she has no visible genitalia so where does that damn ****** come from?

 

BTW, did anyone notice her clothes are recolours of Miranda's outfit? I guess she found some of Miranda's clothes onboard and for some reason one of them had a built-in fake ******

[SmilesJA]

There is a big difference between sexy and sexualized. 

 

Though sometimes people (especially so called "culture critics") can't tell the difference.

[Rhaenyss]

It's funny that you say that about Japan, I had a friend that worked there for some time, and she said the culture is the complete opposite of what they show to the West (especially in entertainment such as anime and such) & she found it fascinating. She said they are much more sexually repressed & traditional than here in the West.

[Demonique]

 

I wouldn't say that Miranda as a character was over the top, the problem was mostly the camera angles they used:

 

Spoiler

 

the "something big" is kind of funny actually

 

LOL that reminds me of that screenshot someone posted of a hideous MShep with the subtitles on and Shep was saying "How much genetic alteration are we talking about?" (or something along that lines) 

 

Or the pic of the tank bred krogan on the mission to recruit Okeer where Tankie is saying 'you are different' and he's staring directly at FemShep's chest (he also stares at MShep's chest but it's more hilarious with FemShep)

 

 

 

As long as the clothing is in keeping with the personality of the person wearing it, and the situation they find themselves in, then honestly, I don't really care. Not every combat situation is going to require armour. There are bigger concerns pre-release for this game than worrying what characters are going to be wearing.

 

Ashley's ME3 redesign was a clear example of clothing not keeping with the personality of the character.

 

ME1 Ashley: "You wouldn't catch me dead in light armour, you can't outrun bullets"

 

ME3 Ash to MShep in the hospital if Shep romanced Miranda in ME2: "I wear armour into battle not swimwear"

 

Clearly communication was lost between the writing and design team in ME3 as not only do you have the option to send Ashley into battle in something lighter than light armour, it's also her onboard uniform.

 

I heard Kimberly Brooks hates Ashley's redesign, pity Bioware didn't allow the voice actors input into their character's design.

[Iakus]

That's the thing though, nothing is permeatiing into videogames. Sexualised characters have always and (unfortunately for you lot) will always exist in gaming.The only difference being that the technology is now vastly superior, meaning that the sexualisation is now more realistic. It's all for one simple reason too, sex sells, and that's never going to change.

How is Miranda or Samara's outfits "realistic"