3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

What's next removing all the guns and replacing them with walkie talkies.

Guns when appropriate.  Walkie talkies when they are appropriate.

[Panda]

What's next removing all the guns and replacing them with walkie talkies.

 

How are guns related though?

[Rappeldrache]

Like seriously, I'm going to be cringing if we have characters running around in stiletto's, catsuits, spandex, etc. 

 

Not to mention exposed skin in combat and outer space

 

EDIT: I am mainly referring to the combat outfits, casual outfits are ok

EDIT 2: This has nothing to do with being politically correct, as I could care less about that bullcrap. This is about logic and practicality

 

  Sorry to tell you: You are very feminist with this demand. Even if you don't care and if you dit not intend.

 

THANKS and a *non-feminst-HUG*

[von uber]

This, I don't know why people find it so hard to understand that men aren't sexualised the same way women are. The qualities that women find attractive in men generally aren't the same as qualities that men find attractive in women, so of course they are going to be sexualised in different ways. Of course there's some crossover, and some qualities are universally considered to be attractive, no matter the sex, but men and women aren't the same, what we are attracted to Isn't the same, and what makes us attractive to the opposite sex isn't the same.

 

Very true, but within the general media and computer games the things that are promoted tend to be more positive and non visual for men (strength, intelligence, power, solidity, loyalty) whereas for women they are mainly about arse, breasts and usually having no agency apart form something to be ogled at or a plot point for a male character.

 

The butt shots are obviously a joke. I found it inappropriate and juvenile, and I still consider Miranda to be "sexy".

 

How did you come to that conclusion?

 

So people are saying sexualised characters are unrealistic. As far as I know female marines are also unrealistic but nobody complains about that! 

 

Go have a chat with the Peshmerga, they are obviously doing it wrong. Luckily you are around to set them straight.

 

 Sexualised characters have always and (unfortunately for you lot) will always exist in gaming.The only difference being that the technology is now vastly superior, meaning that the sexualisation is now more realistic. It's all for one simple reason too, sex sells, and that's never going to change.

 

I suggest you go back and watch television form the 1970's, and tell me things will never change.

 

  Sorry to tell you: You are very feminist with this demand. Even if you don't care and if you dit not intend.

 

THANKS and a *non-feminst-HUG*

 

When was being a feminist a bad thing?

[Rappeldrache]

When was being a feminist a bad thing?

 

It isn't. My english is not quite good enough to ... talk as I would like to.

[Ahglock]

How are guns related though?

 

It was just a reference to a "special edition" edit of a movie.  I think ET, the cops in the movie in the edited version were holding walkie talkies where they used to be holding guns. Basically don't edit things in to make the situation not offend people, put in what should be there and fits the situation. 

[Panda]

It was just a reference to a "special edition" edit of a movie.  I think ET, the cops in the movie in the edited version were holding walkie talkies where they used to be holding guns. Basically don't edit things in to make the situation not offend people, put in what should be there and fits the situation. 

 

That's bit weird in the context though, since people who are asking Bioware edit things to make what should be there and fits to the situation.

[SmilesJA]

 

Very true, but within the general media and computer games the things that are promoted tend to be more positive and non visual for men (strength, intelligence, power, solidity, loyalty) whereas for women they are mainly about arse, breasts and usually having no agency apart form something to be ogled at or a plot point for a male character.

 

Are you talking about how the developers do advertisments for games. They create the advertisements depending on who's the target audience (which is usually male).

 

I suggest you go back and watch television form the 1970's, and tell me things will never change.

 

 

 

Eh I think things like sex will always sell no matter what decade we're in.

[Rhaenyss]

Eh I think things like sex will always sell no matter what decade we're in.

 

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be presented the same. Women love sex too. Why do you think there is so much erotic fanfiction? It's because women love sex (and have always loved it, if you date back the erotic fiction trend), but the way it's presented in more mainstream media is completely geared towards men. By that I mean the perspective -- you're supposed to consume it from male point of view & that "style" is usually distasteful to women (and surprise, it's not because women are prudes). 

[Hazegurl]

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be presented the same. Women love sex too. Why do you think there is so much erotic fanfiction? It's because women love sex (and have always loved it, if you date back the erotic fiction trend), but the way it's presented in more mainstream media is completely geared towards men. By that I mean the perspective -- you're supposed to consume it from male point of view & that "style" is usually distasteful to women (and surprise, it's not because women are prudes). 

Not entirely. Do you think sexy men litter the media to appeal to men only?? You think Brad Pitt, Clooney, and Leonardo Dicaprio became famous sex symbols because of men? What about no talent "pretty boy" boy bands record companies spend and arm and a leg developing? The media has always and will always cater to young girls and women.  To say that the mainstream media is geared solely to the perspective of men is completely false. Especially when you look at the most popular shows et al, almost all of them are geared towards women.  The problem is that the moment a show, movie, or game is geared toward the tastes of men (which will be something different), women and some men throw a huge tantrum about it and act like it's not supposed to exist at all.   No one threw a fit over that guy in Twilight running around with no shirt on for 90% of the movies but after spending a whole hour in a video game battling men on fire with flying fire whales and unicorns with flying teleporting kids, suddenly we need realism when it comes to a woman's outift. LOL!!

[Lazengan]

fun fact

 

female artists design female characters wearing those

 

also it's not like any of us cis straight male scum will care about 6 ft tall 8 pack monster gains shirtless thong wearing men, go ahead and throw that in as well. 

[Panda]

Not entirely. Do you think sexy men litter the media to appeal to men only?? You think Brad Pitt, Clooney, and Leonardo Dicaprio became famous sex symbols because of men? What about no talent "pretty boy" boy bands record companies spend and arm and a leg developing? The media has always and will always cater to young girls and women.  To say that the mainstream media is geared solely to the perspective of men is completely false. Especially when you look at the most popular shows et al, almost all of them are geared towards women.  The problem is that the moment a show, movie, or game is geared toward the tastes of men (which will be something different), women and some men throw a huge tantrum about it and act like it's not supposed to exist at all.   No one threw a fit over that guy in Twilight running around with no shirt on for 90% of the movies but after spending a whole hour in a video game battling men on fire with flying fire whales and unicorns with flying teleporting kids, suddenly we need realism when it comes to a woman's outift. LOL!!

 

Though it's not completely on topic Hollywood industry by itself is quite sexist, tons of female actresses have talked about it. There is both wage and age gap and then unfair treatment. In viewer side it's hard to find female characters you could relate, it has been studied quite much but for some numbers in top 100 films in US women were protagonist in 11% and from all characters women were 33%. For interesting fact, some movie theaters in Sweden have started to measure gender bias/sexism of the films and most popular movies have not pass it including Star Wars, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.

 

Often when movie side is seen as sexist it's lack of women so not quite what you said, since you are talking about how lot of sexy men there is. However films lack quite lot of male nudity compared to female nudity and male nudity raises ratings more than female. Game of Thrones has been called out about this alongside many others. One study claims that female characters are twice as likely be in sexual scenes in the movie than male characters.

 

Also how do you know these male actors are in the movies to cater girls and not boys? Since women clearly want more female characters in the movies to cater them, but when there is like in Mad Max, tons of men get angry about it. Why do not men want more women in the movies if that would cater  them more?

[Hazegurl]

Though it's not completely on topic Hollywood industry by itself is quite sexist, tons of female actresses have talked about it. There is both wage and age gap and then unfair treatment. In viewer side it's hard to find female characters you could relate, it has been studied quite much but for some numbers in top 100 films in US women were protagonist in 11% and from all characters women were 33%. For interesting fact, some movie theaters in Sweden have started to measure gender bias/sexism of the films and most popular movies have not pass it including Star Wars, Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings.

 

I think the numbers overlook several other facts.  Women tend to have short lived ticket selling power compared to men.  An actor like Al Pacino can still rake in tons of ticket sales vs Cate Blanchett.  A lot of this does have something to do with age and gender.  As a younger woman will draw in the crowds moreso than an older one. Is this sexist? Sure.  But what can you do. Demand that the movie going audience care just as much about an older actress as a younger one?  And the question to ask is this.  Is this solely the fault of men or has women contributed to this? 

 

I do think the answer to increasing the gender pay gap in Hollywood is to give women more roles, such as a villain role et al.  But that can quickly go down hill because people also want to create guidelines to how a woman should be portrayed in the media rather than how the character actually is. As for unfair treatment. I think actresses have brought it on themselves. The "casting couch" is a mutual deal, agreeing to be nude on screen is a mutual deal.   I think Sweden has too much time on its hands. Harry Potter is starring a boy named Harry, Luke Skywalker is the star of Star Wars, and Aragorn and Frodo is about 70 - 80% LOTR. I don't expect side characters to get paid as much as the stars.  Now if Harry Potter was Henrietta Potter then I expect the female lead to get paid far more than anyone else.

 

Often when movie side is seen as sexist it's lack of women so not quite what you said, since you are talking about how lot of sexy men there is. However films lack quite lot of male nudity compared to female nudity and male nudity raises ratings more than female. Game of Thrones has been called out about this alongside many others. One study claims that female characters are twice as likely be in sexual scenes in the movie than male characters.

 

Is the lack of male nudity due to more male actors rejecting nude scenes? idk.  But I do know that a permission wavier has to be signed by any actor or actress before a nude scene can take place.  So that means that all of these naked women on screen signed the release forms agreeing to get paid to get naked.  I certainly want more nude men on screen, though.  But I don't think I'm the majority among the female demographic as I see more women complaining about seeing male penises on screen when they do show up, or just complaining about nudity overall.  Whether they do it as a front to fake offense when they really enjoy it or not, idk.  But they ruin it for the rest of us who do want naked men on camera. And then of course there are the men who complain over penises too, acting like they didn't just see a vagina and some boobs two scenes ago...okay I might be going into a rant soon so I'll stop.   

 

Also how do you know these male actors are in the movies to cater girls and not boys? Since women clearly want more female characters in the movies to cater them, but when there is like in Mad Max, tons of men get angry about it. Why do not men want more women in the movies if that would cater  them more?

 

How many boys/men do you know are sitting around watching Vampire Dairies and Soap Operas? Not many. Who is watching Twilight? Who made that Twilight fan fiction sex book (forgot the name) more read than the Bible? Who made James Dean and Elvis Presley sex symbols? Who was responsible for placing Brad Pitt on the cover of People Mag's worlds most sexiest man throughout the 90's thus increasing his star power and also his wages? Who made Johnny Depp popular?  I have no desire to sit here and pretend that these Hollywood actresses are innocent little taken advantage of lambs. They signed the nudity waivers.  And it's female fans who aided in the increased wages of most of the men in Hollywood by buying the tickets to their movies, buying the merchandise, and making them far more valuable and thus worth more money.  Men just don't fanboy as much over these actresses as women and young girls do over the men. Especially young girls. They'll buy anything if it has their favorite male star on it. I know women want to see more women starring in movies, shows, et al but sex sells and money talks and girls/women will spend far more money on a male actor than they ever would a female one regardless of what they claim.

 

I think the reason Hollywood turned out the way it is, is due more to self insertion by the audience(of course this does not apply to everyone).  Women self insert themselves into the role of the beautiful woman who is sought after and desired by the strong handsome man.  Men self insert themselves into the role as the handsome strong man who saves and gets the hot girl.  The easy solution is to create a movie starring a strong handsome man who desires, saves, and gets the hot girl. Then there are tv shows that will cater more to women by showing beautiful women who are sought after by powerful, strong, wealthy, and handsome men. And shows that will cater to men by showing strong men who get his choice of hot women. 

 

As for Mad Max. People complained because it wasn't really a Mad Max movie.  The film was not about Mad Max at all.  They used the name to sell the tickets because they didn't have faith in their own story starring a female lead.

 

But I think I've written enough on this topic. This may start to get super off topic.

[Panda]

 

<snip>

 

I think you are assuming audience has power over people in high positions, but they do not. World is not run with little people and not ever with masses.

 

Also Swedish study wasn't about main characters and salary, it had system that measured if female characters in the movie discuss with each other without male character being present.

 

What comes to female actresses and sexual scenes, it's not like they have lot of choice if they want to employed.

 

You are right about the teenager interest, though both your examples are also most hated movies in the world by women. Avengers or Titanic (to bring in classic) would work better. Though I still somewhat doubt that fangirl interest is what big guys in Hollywood are going with when they are doing their things, often it's rather looked down upon than embraced.

[von uber]

also it's not like any of us cis straight male scum will care about 6 ft tall 8 pack monster gains shirtless thong wearing men, go ahead and throw that in as well.

Blimey, good job you mentioned the most oppressed, disadvantaged and underrepresented group of people there. It's about time someone stood up for them!

[spinachdiaper]

What about people who are into feet? Should they remove all feet too, but then the crowd who digs amputees would be affected, so no matter which way they sway the "PC" no sexiness agenda it's still going to make someone hot and bothered for all the inappropriate reasons.

[Rhaenyss]

I was actually talking about the male perspective in porn specifically, but ok. Also, you're talking about media as if it's 100% shaped by the audience, while the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Most of the movies that are getting made are following the same formula in part because they think it sells, which in turns conditions the audience to expect the same kind of formula in their movies. That doesn't mean it should stay that way. It's the same question in gaming, do women play games less than men because of the way most of the games are geared towards men, or are games geared towards men because women don't play them?

[KaiserShep]

As for Mad Max. People complained because it wasn't really a Mad Max movie.  The film was not about Mad Max at all.  They used the name to sell the tickets because they didn't have faith in their own story starring a female lead.

 

Actually, the movie is about Max, just like it's about Furiosa and the group freeing themselves of Immortan. The people that complained are fools. We should eat them.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Though sometimes what's sexy to some people, can be overly sexualized to others. Which can get frustrating to me.

What I don't get is how people criticize Mirandas outfit but think Isabela in DA2 is a paragon of women's rights to self expression of their sexually.

[KaiserShep]

I remember there being more criticism against Isabela's outfit than praise, but at least Isabela didn't have to deal with low atmosphere environments. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

However films lack quite lot of male nudity compared to female nudity and male nudity raises ratings more than female.

I disagree. There are a lot more topless men then there are women in movies. If people count topless women as being nude, then it applies to men as well and thus films have more male nudity than female nudity. People just don't make as big a fuss when its a topless guy because of double standards. 

[Panda]

I disagree. There are a lot more topless men then there are women in movies. If people count topless women as being nude, then it applies to men as well and thus films have more male nudity than female nudity. People just don't make as big a fuss when its a topless guy because of double standards. 

 

 I was referring study there: "Another study, by the Annenberg Public Policy Centre at the University of Pennsylvania, showed that the ratio of male to female characters in movies has remained at about two to one for at least six decades. That study, which examined 855 top box-office films from 1950-2006, showed female characters were twice as likely to be seen in explicit sexual scenes as males, while male characters were more likely to be seen as violent." So that information is from university study that you can disagree or not, but not by me (though I do disagree with you personally).

[Panda]

What I don't get is how people criticize Mirandas outfit but think Isabela in DA2 is a paragon of women's rights to self expression of their sexually.

 

Isabela's outfit fits her. She is rogue that uses lot of agility when fighting and she's very sexual person as well who likes to show it.

 

Miranda's outfit also fits her. It just fits her when she's not fighting geth army with rocket shooters in environment that is full of radiation.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 I was referring study there: "Another study, by the Annenberg Public Policy Centre at the University of Pennsylvania, showed that the ratio of male to female characters in movies has remained at about two to one for at least six decades. That study, which examined 855 top box-office films from 1950-2006, showed female characters were twice as likely to be seen in explicit sexual scenes as males, while male characters were more likely to be seen as violent." So that information is from university study that you can disagree or not, but not by me (though I do disagree with you personally).

That statistic is ridiculous since you'd need a guy as well as a girl for said explicit sexual scenes, meaning the number would be about equal. True there are movies with same sex content in them, but top box office film since 1950? No. 

 

Besides, the most important lesson in statistics is that you can get statistics to say whatever you want them to. 

[Hazegurl]

I think you are assuming audience has power over people in high positions, but they do not. World is not run with little people and not ever with masses.

 

 

We're talking about people who create products the public purchase and consume.  In that case, the little people do have power.  If no one is willing to pay to see these movies then they wouldn't exist.  Sure companies manipulate likes et al.  But it works because the public allows it to happen. The fact remains is that movies and tv shows are the way they are because people (both men and women) pay for it.

 

 

Also Swedish study wasn't about main characters and salary, it had system that measured if female characters in the movie discuss with each other without male character being present.

 

Ah, I figured I could have been wrong.  It makes the study even more stupid.

 

What comes to female actresses and sexual scenes, it's not like they have lot of choice if they want to employed.

 

BS they don't have any choice. It's just that plenty of women are willing to take those jobs so the role will be filled no matter what. If the job truly went against the actresses morals then she can simply say no and walk away.  But they want the money and fame and they were more than willing to do whatever it takes to get it and keep it. 

 

 

You are right about the teenager interest, though both your examples are also most hated movies in the world by women. Avengers or Titanic (to bring in classic) would work better. Though I still somewhat doubt that fangirl interest is what big guys in Hollywood are going with when they are doing their things, often it's rather looked down upon than embraced.

 

It's only looked down upon by those who just aren't a part of that fandom. The interests of teenage girls have been top priority for years.

 

 

Actually, the movie is about Max, just like it's about Furiosa and the group freeing themselves of Immortan. The people that complained are fools. We should eat them.

 

I personally thought the movie should have only been about Furiosa.