3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

That statistic is ridiculous since you'd need a guy as well as a girl for said explicit sexual scenes, meaning the number would be about equal. True there are movies with same sex content in them, but top box office film since 1950? No. 

 

Besides, the most important lesson in statistics is that you can get statistics to say whatever you want them to. 

 

Not really. You can have girl strip, dance without in underwear, do something sexual on herself or with other girl etc. And you can also have sexual scene with fully dresses man and woman in underwear or being naked.. there can be lot of female nudity in sexual scene with man and woman as well without showing male nudity at all.

 

We're talking about people who create products the public purchase and consume.  In that case, the little people do have power.  If no one is willing to pay to see these movies then they wouldn't exist.  Sure companies manipulate likes et al.  But it works because the public allows it to happen. The fact remains is that movies and tv shows are the way they are because people (both men and women) pay for it.

 

Ah, I figured I could have been wrong.  It makes the study even more stupid.

 

BS they don't have any choice. It's just that plenty of women are willing to take those jobs so the role will be filled no matter what. If the job truly went against the actresses morals then she can simply say no and walk away.  But they want the money and fame and they were more than willing to do whatever it takes to get it and keep it. 

 

It's only looked down upon by those who just aren't a part of that fandom. The interests of teenage girls have been top priority for years.

 

I personally thought the movie should have only been about Furiosa.

 

People are speaking up to not let it happen. Like people are speaking up about fanservice in games.. and anime as well. In general people pay for what is popular and what is good even if they have to ignore some parts of it, since alternatives are hard to find. Same with any media.

 

So what should these women who don't want to be sexual scenes do? Speak up? They are doing that. The problem is that they can't get money nor become popular that way and if you are actress or actor you likely do want to become famous one.

 

I don't really know about fangirls being top priority. Where do you know that?

[Rhaenyss]

Well, back in 50s was normal for women to be slapped by men in movies or for people of color being reduced to minor roles, and I'm sure someone back then argued that it's what people like & pay to see. That doesn't mean it should stay that way. Especially if you expect creativity in your entertainment. I mean, with diverse authors & more liberty in expressing themselves, the product can also be more interesting and not the same old cliche. When I get Miranda's wedgies in my face during a sad scene, I don't think "oh look, artistic integrity". It just makes me laugh, and then cry a bit inside.

[Hazegurl]

Well, back in 50s was normal for women to be slapped by men in movies or for people of color being reduced to minor roles, and I'm sure someone back then argued that it's what people like & pay to see. That doesn't mean it should stay that way. Especially if you expect creativity in your entertainment. I mean, with diverse authors & more liberty in expressing themselves, the product can also be more interesting and not the same old cliche. When I get Miranda's wedgies in my face during a sad scene, I don't think "oh look, artistic integrity". It just makes me laugh, and then cry a bit inside.

That's not my point. I'm not arguing in favor of things remaining the way it is. I'm arguing against this belief that some people now have that women are weak little victimized lambs who have been living under a rock and have zero power over the media.  That it is all the work of our brilliantly diabolical male counterparts and women have just never influenced how the media has turned out.

 

I just picture Kaidan's butt whenever they flash Miranda's. Kaidan Alenko   best butt on the Citadel.

 

People are speaking up to not let it happen. Like people are speaking up about fanservice in games.. and anime as well. In general people pay for what is popular and what is good even if they have to ignore some parts of it, since alternatives are hard to find. Same with any media.

 

So what should these women who don't want to be sexual scenes do? Speak up? They are doing that. The problem is that they can't get money nor become popular that way and if you are actress or actor you likely do want to become famous one.

 

I don't really know about fangirls being top priority. Where do you know that?

 

Whose fault is it that the public have lined the pockets of those who aren't giving them what they want?  Your choice to settle for entertainment you partially like is the reason those same elements will always exists.

 

Boo hoo for them. They can get another job outside the industry or write and produce their own movies. It's not like they are eating out of trash cans. You mean to tell me that none of these multi millionaire actresses can hire their own writers, produce their own movies, and change the face of the industry they work in?  Right, they're so helpless when they sign those waivers and collect their million dollar checks.

 

CW, YA novels becoming multi million dollar hit movies, the fact the nearly every handsome male star in Hollywood is a star because they are/were a sex symbol for millions of girls and women around the world. I can't see how you can claim that these fangirls don't matter when they are the very reason the gender pay gap in Hollywood exists. 

[Felya87]

I find the argumant "she could have said no to the sex scene, it was her choice" akin to the rapist defenders "she was wearing a short skirt, she had called on herself the psyco".

Is stupid.

[von uber]

So handsome men are only stars because women find them attractive? Nothing whatsoever to do with talent?

[Panda]

Well, back in 50s was normal for women to be slapped by men in movies or for people of color being reduced to minor roles, and I'm sure someone back then argued that it's what people like & pay to see. That doesn't mean it should stay that way. Especially if you expect creativity in your entertainment. I mean, with diverse authors & more liberty in expressing themselves, the product can also be more interesting and not the same old cliche. When I get Miranda's wedgies in my face during a sad scene, I don't think "oh look, artistic integrity". It just makes me laugh, and then cry a bit inside.

 

Time brings change, but that change for better can't happen without people commenting about it and letting it know. I think feedback has brought positive change in the Western media in terms of games and comics at least, but I think lack of that feedback and criticism in Japan is negative, since the situation won't change for "better" without it.

 

That's not my point. I'm not arguing in favor of things remaining the way it is. I'm arguing against this belief that some people now have that women are weak little victimized lambs who have been living under a rock and have zero power over the media.  That it is all the work of our brilliantly diabolical male counterparts and women have just never influenced how the media has turned out.

 

I just picture Kaidan's butt whenever they flash Miranda's. Kaidan Alenko   best butt on the Citadel.

 

Whose fault is it that the public have lined the pockets of those who aren't giving them what they want?  Your choice to settle for entertainment you partially like is the reason those same elements will always exists.

 

Boo hoo for them. They can get another job outside the industry or write and produce their own movies. It's not like they are eating out of trash cans. You mean to tell me that none of these multi millionaire actresses can hire their own writers, produce their own movies, and change the face of the industry they work in?  Right, they're so helpless when they sign those waivers and collect their million dollar checks.

 

CW, YA novels becoming multi million dollar hit movies, the fact the nearly every handsome male star in Hollywood is a star because they are/were a sex symbol for millions of girls and women around the world. I can't see how you can claim that these fangirls don't matter when they are the very reason the gender pay gap in Hollywood exists. 

 

Most of these decision come from higher up than audience level and again people do want something to entertain them. I don't really think I could be gamer with the attitude of dropping every game where I encounter something I find negative to have like useless fanservice. I really doubt I could play games at all with that mindset. Nor watch anime, read superhero comics, do anything I like to do. I'm more into giving feedback than voting with your money and staying quiet about annoying things.

 

Audience does have some responsibility as well, for example going to watch Fifty Shades of Grey for a joke has turned the crappy movie into success, the movie does not have good ratings so I doubt anyone goes to watch it cause it's amazing movie. Despite being money-maker the feedback system is still working against the movie, which is good thing.

 

On the topic of actress, where would the have got those money to produce and write movies they appear if they wouldn't have done signed up in those sexy roles? And I don't really think that is an right answer for the problem anyways.

 

Again I wonder where you get this idea of fangirl power being so big that film companies are aiming their content to them in terms of big movies? Other than Twilight and Fifty shades of grey that have lot of negative feedback despite being moneymakers.

[SnakeCode]

fun fact

 

female artists design female characters wearing those

 

also it's not like any of us cis straight male scum will care about 6 ft tall 8 pack monster gains shirtless thong wearing men, go ahead and throw that in as well. 

 

Doesn't stop thousands of women cosplaying them either.

 

Not entirely. Do you think sexy men litter the media to appeal to men only?? You think Brad Pitt, Clooney, and Leonardo Dicaprio became famous sex symbols because of men? What about no talent "pretty boy" boy bands record companies spend and arm and a leg developing? The media has always and will always cater to young girls and women.  To say that the mainstream media is geared solely to the perspective of men is completely false. Especially when you look at the most popular shows et al, almost all of them are geared towards women.  The problem is that the moment a show, movie, or game is geared toward the tastes of men (which will be something different), women and some men throw a huge tantrum about it and act like it's not supposed to exist at all.   No one threw a fit over that guy in Twilight running around with no shirt on for 90% of the movies but after spending a whole hour in a video game battling men on fire with flying fire whales and unicorns with flying teleporting kids, suddenly we need realism when it comes to a woman's outift. LOL!!

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo!

 

Blimey, good job you mentioned the most oppressed, disadvantaged and underrepresented group of people there. It's about time someone stood up for them!

 

Implying that women are any of those things lmao.

[SnakeCode]

What I don't get is how people criticize Mirandas outfit but think Isabela in DA2 is a paragon of women's rights to self expression of their sexually.

 

What I don't get is how people have no problem with Iron Bull's attire ("he's a Qunari, it's a different culture, they use paint as armor.") but complain about how Rasaan is dressed. A similarly scantily clad Qunari, only female.

[Iakus]

What I don't get is how people criticize Mirandas outfit but think Isabela in DA2 is a paragon of women's rights to self expression of their sexually.

I actually run a mod on DA2 to give Isabela some pants and a blouse.

 

And I actually spent money on an Alternate Appearance Pack to give Miranda a properly armored outfit for ME2.

 

So, yea...

[Felya87]

What I don't get is how people have no problem with Iron Bull's attire ("he's a Qunari, it's a different culture, they use paint as armor.") but complain about how Rasaan is dressed. A similarly scantily clad Qunari, only female.

Becuse the player can decide to give him real complete armour. So he can end up beig bare chested only when in Skyhold, and not into Battle. Same for Varric and Vivenne.

And for Isabela...I had always facepalmed when I had her in the team. And ended up not having her around because I found her lack of pants idiotic. (plus, I found her quite boring and not funny.)

[Obvakhi]

Becuse the player can decide to give him real complete armour. So he can end up beig bare chested only when in Skyhold, and not into Battle. Same for Varric and Vivenne.
 

So as long as we are able equip them with complete armor, scantily clad outfits are cool right? I can agree with that.

[Iakus]

What I don't get is how people have no problem with Iron Bull's attire ("he's a Qunari, it's a different culture, they use paint as armor.") but complain about how Rasaan is dressed. A similarly scantily clad Qunari, only female.

I dunno about you, but Bull always wears a proper breastplate when I take him into battle.  Even if I have to craft one for him myself.

[Hazegurl]

So handsome men are only stars because women find them attractive? Nothing whatsoever to do with talent?

I'm not saying talent has nothing at all to do with it. That's obvious.  There are certainly good looking former sex symbols who couldn't maintain their star power because they are just too terrible.  I'm speaking about the influences women/girls have on the media and appealing to them has most certainly helped...a lot. 

 

ex: Keanu Reaves. He's gotten better but he was an awful actor in the 90's. I still laugh at him during Dangerous Liaisons.

 

I find the argumant "she could have said no to the sex scene, it was her choice" akin to the rapist defenders "she was wearing a short skirt, she had called on herself the psyco".

Is stupid.

 

I knew someone was gonna pull this one out of their rear. Congrats. Comparing a willful agreement and a signing of release forms, and waivers to rape is about as dumb as it gets. 

 

Most of these decision come from higher up than audience level and again people do want something to entertain them. I don't really think I could be gamer with the attitude of dropping every game where I encounter something I find negative to have like useless fanservice. I really doubt I could play games at all with that mindset. Nor watch anime, read superhero comics, do anything I like to do. I'm more into giving feedback than voting with your money and staying quiet about annoying things.

 

The higher ups of any company are the ones who determine what products reach the audience, it is then the audience's turn to decide if they like or not by watching/consuming the product.  No company would keep making products that don't sell.  They would be out of business.

 

Complaining isn't the issue, demanding they be erased is. If it bothers you so much to the point where you need to have it disappear just to enjoy the product completely then why buy it?  I don't like how dull the IQ was in DAI, but the option should exist for those who want to self insert.  I just want an option that brings my character to life.  Not every product that exists should have to appeal to you in every single way. I don't care for Miranda's butt shots, but others do.  Why should it go away because I personally don't care for it? I like Kaidan's butt shots so others should have their Miranda shots.  The only thing that would be fair is to get rid of all butt shots.

 

Audience does have some responsibility as well, for example going to watch Fifty Shades of Grey for a joke has turned the crappy movie into success, the movie does not have good ratings so I doubt anyone goes to watch it cause it's amazing movie. Despite being money-maker the feedback system is still working against the movie, which is good thing.

 

 

Sadly it isn't working against it, I just looked up that movie and apparently there is a second and third movie in the works. lol!

 

On the topic of actress, where would the have got those money to produce and write movies they appear if they wouldn't have done signed up in those sexy roles? And I don't really think that is an right answer for the problem anyways.

 

 

You keep trying to victimize people who are not victims. Everyone has a choice. Simple as that. 

 

Again I wonder where you get this idea of fangirl power being so big that film companies are aiming their content to them in terms of big movies? Other than Twilight and Fifty shades of grey that have lot of negative feedback despite being moneymakers.

 

http://feministficti...er-of-fangirls/

 

http://www.dailydot....girls-internet/

 

http://www.popmatter...girl-phenomena/

 

http://www.grammy.co...-marketing-tool

 

Fangirls may get a bad rap, but everyone knows they have major marketing power.  This has been going on for decades and I don't even need these articles to tell me that. 

[Panda]

The higher ups of any company are the ones who determine what products reach the audience, it is then the audience's turn to decide if they like or not by watching/consuming the product.  No company would keep making products that don't sell.  They would be out of business.

 

Complaining isn't the issue, demanding they be erased is. If it bothers you so much to the point where you need to have it disappear just to enjoy the product completely then why buy it?  I don't like how dull the IQ was in DAI, but the option should exist for those who want to self insert.  I just want an option that brings my character to life.  Not every product that exists should have to appeal to you in every single way. I don't care for Miranda's butt shots, but others do.  Why should it go away because I personally don't care for it? I like Kaidan's butt shots so others should have their Miranda shots.  The only thing that would be fair is to get rid of all butt shots.

 

Sadly it isn't working against it, I just looked up that movie and apparently there is a second and third movie in the works. lol!

 

You keep trying to victimize people who are not victims. Everyone has a choice. Simple as that. 

 

http://feministficti...er-of-fangirls/

 

http://www.dailydot....girls-internet/

 

http://www.popmatter...girl-phenomena/

 

http://www.grammy.co...-marketing-tool

 

Fangirls may get a bad rap, but everyone knows they have major marketing power.  This has been going on for decades and I don't even need these articles to tell me that. 

 

I do not buy product where it bothers me that much that I can't handle it. Still, wouldn't you like your favorite things be filled mostly with good moments and not being half of the time annoying? I don't mind things having content that I don't care about, I mind things forcing me into content that break immersion and cheapens the game. Miranda's buttshots are out of place, I have said multiple times that they can be included, but in romantic/flirting situation, not when she's worrying about her sister and you stare her butt like some creep.

 

I think Rhaenyss had good comment on why it's good that these things are removed: "Well, back in 50s was normal for women to be slapped by men in movies or for people of color being reduced to minor roles, and I'm sure someone back then argued that it's what people like & pay to see. That doesn't mean it should stay that way. Especially if you expect creativity in your entertainment. I mean, with diverse authors & more liberty in expressing themselves, the product can also be more interesting and not the same old cliche. When I get Miranda's wedgies in my face during a sad scene, I don't think "oh look, artistic integrity". It just makes me laugh, and then cry a bit inside."

 

In my opinion removing these things or implementing them only makes games better. There is many examples in gaming world on how positively feedback has affected, for example Saint Row and Witcher from gaming have gotten better and at least Saint Row's makers have acknowledged that they listen the criticism and can do better. So I'm giving feedback and talking about these things cause I want things to get better and I know they can get better.

 

It's sad that they are making more movies of the sucky one, but not surprising. It can become to similar thing as Sharknado, people going to see how bad  the movie is laugh at it or then it can simply die with first one. I don't really see Fifty Shades of Grey getting any respect as movie though nor being remembered as classic later on.

 

These actresses talk about sexism in Hollywood themselves, I'm not trying to make here victims out of them against their will.

[BabyPuncher]

I don't really see Fifty Shades of Grey getting any respect as movie though nor being remembered as classic later on.

 

Because it's a crappy movie with a stupid script, or because it's a movie explicitly about a woman in submission to a man, sexually and otherwise?

[Panda]

Because it's a crappy movie with a stupid script, or because it's a movie explicitly about a woman in submission to a man, sexually and otherwise?

 

It's not simply liked nor rated high for both being about abusive relationship and simply being bad movie.

[von uber]

Implying that women are any of those things lmao.

Oh god, You are one of those - there is no point continuing the discussion here if you can't even see that basic point.

[BabyPuncher]

Uh-huh.

 

So I'm wondering, would you consider any relationship in which the man compels her to do something she doesn't want to to do (at least immediately) abusive?

 

Cause I would say that's kind of necessary. It can't really be submission if she's only doing things that she would want to be doing anyway.

[FKA_Servo]

Oh god, You are one of those - there is no point continuing the discussion here if you can't even see that basic point.

 

You probably shouldn't be surprised, though.

 

This sort of thread is catnip to the sort of poster who's generally not worth engaging at all.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Because it's a crappy movie with a stupid script, or because it's a movie explicitly about a woman in submission to a man, sexually and otherwise?

 

It's a crappy movie with a very stupid script AND it's a movie not about submission but about abuse because what they do in there isn't BDSM. If you use manipulation and force, if you don't care about consent, if you do what you want without asking your partner... then it's definitely abuse.

[Kallas_br123]

Internet critics do not represent the target audience of the film, just as transformers, twlight and other terrible franchises receive poor review, but still make a ton of money.

[SnakeCode]

You probably shouldn't be surprised, though.

 

This sort of thread is catnip to the sort of poster who's generally not worth engaging at all.

 

Yup, radfems and their entourage of white knights. The problem is, it's so hard NOT to respond to the ridiculous hyperbole, hypocrisy and misinformation that makes up the majority of their posts.

 

Oh god, You are one of those - there is no point continuing the discussion here if you can't even see that basic point.

 

One of what exactly?

[BabyPuncher]

It's a crappy movie with a very stupid script AND it's a movie not about submission but about abuse because what they do in there isn't BDSM. If you use manipulation and force, if you don't care about consent, if you do what you want without asking your partner... then it's definitely abuse.

 

That's a rather shallow and inaccurate view of relationships.

 

Manipulation is present in some form or fashion in pretty much all of the relationships we have, including (or perhaps, especially) intimate ones. And the idea that 'asking' is always a necessary process is just silly nonsense.

 

Consider the kiss at the climax at Lair of the Shadow Broker. Liara moves in to kiss Shepard, and yet pulls back. Retreats. Backs off. You surely aren't suggesting Shepard is abusive for forcefully kissing her anyways, without asking her first?
 

[Kallas_br123]

Yup, radfems and their entourage of white knights. The problem is, it's so hard NOT to respond to the ridiculous hyperbole, hypocrisy and misinformation that makes up the majority of their posts.

 

 

One of what exactly?

Probably one of those, you know,  not drones, which dont swallow all feminist propaganda that exists on tumblr, you should be grateful for it.

 

Sorry bad english

[Seishoujyo]

Like seriously, I'm going to be cringing if we have characters running around in stiletto's, catsuits, spandex, etc. 

 

Not to mention exposed skin in combat and outer space

 

EDIT: I am mainly referring to the combat outfits, casual outfits are ok

EDIT 2: This has nothing to do with being politically correct, as I could care less about that bullcrap. This is about logic and practicality

EDIT 3: If you are going to bring up feminism, Anita Sarkesian, or any of the gamergate, feminism gaming war bullcrap, then please feel free to get the **** off my thread.

 

1: stop trying to be politcal correct

2: stop trying to cater to the feminist crowd

3: people like you Rzibara are seriously pissing me off

 

Mass Effect 2 was awesome, it's the best of the trilogy, Bioware don't listen to this guy just do your stuff like you always did with Mass Effect. Mass Effect is like your James Bond movie, so of course you have you beautiful women in stiletto or catsuits.