How about Urdnot "I can shrug off a rocket to the face during gameplay" Wrex getting oneshotted by Ashley or put down with a few shots by C-Sec.
So long as the series portrays armor as having negligible effectiveness both in and out of combat, I'm not going to fault a character for deciding to for-go it, especially when that doesn't actually hamper their combat effectiveness.
Yeah ok. I'm not going to take you seriously anymore. Have fun with your "arguments", see if anyone bites.
How about Urdnot "I can shrug off a rocket to the face during gameplay" Wrex getting oneshotted by Ashley or put down with a few shots by C-Sec.
So long as the series portrays armor as having negligible effectiveness both in and out of combat, I'm not going to fault a character for deciding to for-go it, especially when that doesn't actually hamper their combat effectiveness.
If cut scenes reflected gameplay, we'd watch Ashley and Wrex shoot at each other for a few minutes until Wrex finally takes her out and takes the Virmire choice away from us. There's a lot of value in brevity.
Actually, I'd pay to see this.
If cut scenes reflected gameplay, we'd watch Ashley and Wrex shoot at each other for a few minutes until Wrex finally takes her out and takes the Virmire choice away from us. There's a lot of value in brevity.
Actually, I'd pay to see this.
I really would like to see a game where cut-scene and game-play mechanics are one and the same:
- Where a guy with armor dies in one hit in a cut-scene AND game-play while the catsuit makes them invincible.
I imagine gameplay reflecting cut scenes would be brutal. Suddenly, taking bullets is like taking meth. Not even once.
If cut scenes reflected gameplay, we'd watch Ashley and Wrex shoot at each other for a few minutes until Wrex finally takes her out and takes the Virmire choice away from us. There's a lot of value in brevity.
Actually, I'd pay to see this.
Yeah ok. I'm not going to take you seriously anymore. Have fun with your "arguments", see if anyone bites.
Ok, look. Either the armor worn by the vast legion of mooks we care through is ineffective due to game play mechanics or the multiple instances of heavily armored individuals being taken out with one shot in cutscenes is plot convenience. But you can't have it both ways.
Either armor is effective or it isn't and both game play and cutscenes shows it to be ineffective.
Thirded. As I mentioned earlier, I didn't see Jack as sexualized. I saw her as very dangerous, right from the moment they showed her coming out of stasis. As far as any...chafing from the leather straps, it's easy to line them with a softer leather for the underside. I don't like catsuits, but I am flexible to a degree. As long as they fit the character, and they aren't a part of combat.
I want large chest pieces. The like you have to work for when you want to tear it off.
I want a character based on
Ariane Saint-Amour
Do it Bioware 
Ok, look. Either the armor worn by the vast legion of mooks we care through is ineffective due to game play mechanics or the multiple instances of heavily armored individuals being taken out with one shot in cutscenes is plot convenience. But you can't have it both ways.
Either armor is effective or it isn't and both game play and cutscenes shows it to be ineffective.
A person in real life can be taken out in a precise hit or sustained weapons fire while wearing body armor. Just because a person cannot be turned into a nigh impenetrable walking fortress like Iron Man doesn't mean that body armor is meaningless. That person can, however, take more physical punishment than a person in regular clothes can, and in a setting like Mass Effect, would be better equipped to handle the litany of extreme environments they'd encounter. A grazing shot that would have otherwise caused a serious wound may just be deflected. It's like wearing a bike helmet. It won't save me if I'm run over by a truck, but it would sure help if I take a spill and hit my head against the pavement.
But this is just a crazy gameplay issue. Mooks take more gunfire in gameplay than any RL person wearing full swat gear could take.
Guest_Puddi III_*
Honestly I regret falling back on this argument. Was born out of frustration of people continuously bringing up the mercs, as if that means anything. The mercs in this series, with the sole exceptions of Wrex and Zaeed, are universally portrayed as idiot cannon fodder. I refuse to accept "the mercs wear armor" as a point in armor's favor.
I should have stuck to my earlier guns about Miranda/Samara/Jacob/Thane's outfits qualifying as light armor and being perfectly viable alternatives given their biotic barriers, as well as practicality not necessarily entering into it so much as the character's personal preference.
When necessity, practicality, utility, and efficiency are the sole/primary concerns, everyone ends up looking homogenized and boring. Miranda, Jack, Thane, and Samara all have unique and interesting looks that help separate them from the pack and make the stand out. I do not care how impractical those outfits appear to anyone - none of us are the arbiters of what does and does not qualify as light armor in this series - I care that the characters have distinctive, memorable appearances.
Once that is established, then we can worry about practicality, as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, too bad ME2's general design lacks balance. I'd rather not see that sort of nonsense return.
. ..Jack certainly wore light armor. . .or was lightly armored. . .or was just light-on-armor. . . 
If they have the biotic/tech barriers to protect themselves I can see why a character might favor lighter gear. . .or lack of gear entirely if helps with mobility, breathability, ETC. . .but I don't see how those things would shield them from the cold vacuum of space, or acid rain, or- well, much of anything once the barriers went down. Or if the barriers are really all they're cracked up to be.
Still, when you can wear heavy armor and biotic charge and nova all over the floor, I don't see how mobility is a problem. 
. . .really, I'm just imagining the invulnerability of nova-canceling and how hilarious it would be if it was used in cutscenes. . .
Why?I know They used it on her.Do you really want me to draw that exact same arc over Miranda's ass?
You know what...I actually agree with this. I bet Miranda's name alone was written over a ten thousand times while Jacob's name probably takes up a good 100 or 200 times. This thread seems primarily focused on judging women for their attire, what is appropriate for women to wear, and when it's appropriate for them to wear it. I suppose one can say that women are typically the ones portrayed wearing revealing armor types and thus they should be the focus. But seriously, Jacob and Thane are only brought as an after thought when it needs to be stressed that both genders are suddenly the issue.
I personally found the male in the MEA poster very appealing. Heck I found the N7 trailer guy appealing. Women love men who project strength. Is it so wrong that the female is posed to appeal to men and possibly lesbians? *shrug* idk.
I personally wonder more about the people checking out EDI's ****** moreso than the fact that she has one. (Although I could have lived forever not knowing about it, I played ME3 so many freaking times lol!) Who the heck noticed that? Why were they all up in her Cootchie like that anyway? lol!! I think I already know the answer to that.
I'm sure some folks are offended but I wonder how much of this is just a case of "one doth protest too much"
Edit: I do think that the portrayal of women in combat games is a valid complaint. However, it seems to eventually cross over into contradicting the stance that a woman should be free to wear whatever she likes without getting dragged through the mud and made to feel less because of it. Does the revealing armor or feminine poses truly make a woman less capable than a man? Or is that simply how she is perceived by those who are offended. If so, then it seems to me as though it's an individual problem rather than the problem of the character itself.
What I said above.I absolutely consider thinking of things that are pure rule of cool/plot convenience as being more acceptable than an idea that has more basis in science fact for no real reason as being a double standard.
"These ridiculous technologies are fine, but this not that far out there technology isn't because reasons".
Like seriously, I'm going to be cringing if we have characters running around in stiletto's, catsuits, spandex, etc.
EDIT: I am mainly referring to the combat outfits, casual outfits are ok
EDIT 2: This has nothing to do with being politically correct, as I could care less about that bullcrap. This is about logic and practicality
Well guess what? Not everyone wants to be practical or logical. So that should reflect to the characters as well.
There should be some characters who just have flashy outfit for the hell of it. Because that's how it is in real life as well. ESPECIALY when you are not in the army.
Well guess what? Not everyone wants to be practical or logical. So that should reflect to the characters as well.
There should be some characters who just have flashy outfit for the hell of it. Because that's how it is in real life as well. ESPECIALY when you are not in the army.
I'm fine with characters having flashy impractical outfits provided the consequences of wearing those outfits is reflected in their abiities. Someone who doesn't wear armour into combat should be easier to kill (and no, they shouldn't be faster or more agile, well designed armour would have a negligable effect on how you move). Someone who wears high-heels in combat should be much less mobile than someone who doesn't. And so on.
Yes, the major problem I saw people listing for DAI (empty open words, dozens of fetch quests, short main plot, crappy antagonist, combat problems, bugs and glitches,) Are caused by Bioware listening to SJW
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You know what...I actually agree with this. I bet Miranda's name alone was written over a ten thousand times while Jacob's name probably takes up a good 100 or 200 times. This thread seems primarily focused on judging women for their attire, what is appropriate for women to wear, and when it's appropriate for them to wear it. I suppose one can say that women are typically the ones portrayed wearing revealing armor types and thus they should be the focus. But seriously, Jacob and Thane are only brought as an after thought when it needs to be stressed that both genders are suddenly the issue.
I personally found the male in the MEA poster very appealing. Heck I found the N7 trailer guy appealing. Women love men who project strength. Is it so wrong that the female is posed to appeal to men and possibly lesbians? *shrug* idk.
I personally wonder more about the people checking out EDI's ****** moreso than the fact that she has one. (Although I could have lived forever not knowing about it, I played ME3 so many freaking times lol!) Who the heck noticed that? Why were they all up in her Cootchie like that anyway? lol!! I think I already know the answer to that.
I'm sure some folks are offended but I wonder how much of this is just a case of "one doth protest too much"
Edit: I do think that the portrayal of women in combat games is a valid complaint. However, it seems to eventually cross over into contradicting the stance that a woman should be free to wear whatever she likes without getting dragged through the mud and made to feel less because of it. Does the revealing armor or feminine poses truly make a woman less capable than a man? Or is that simply how she is perceived by those who are offended. If so, then it seems to me as though it's an individual problem rather than the problem of the character itself.
Thanks for the support. I think you do a way better job at explaining this than I have. My point was, I accept the fact that the OP went into this thread intended to have a thoughtful conversation about characters in combat not wearing full armor like Commander Shepard. However, when I read the OP I had this innate feeling that instead of talking about ALL characters with skin tight clothing in combat, the conversation would eventually slip into exclusively talking about the female characters while Thane who looks like a futuristic pimp with outfit and having his chest exposed and Jacob with his male cat suit and his "bulge".
Perhaps the OP had the greatest of intentions as he describes himself as being anti-SJW but that does not take away from the idea that this thread's title alone attracts those of the Politically Correct/SJW/Sensitive-Easily Offended/Women are too Sexualized in Games people.
In fact all you have to do is look to a reply like this:
Yeah, I agree with OP. Miranda was absolutely ridicules in ME3. She was supposed to be hiding from cerberus, and yet she wore, that outfit, in the citadel. Her whole pour pose was to be ****** ****** material, especially in ME3.
What, I really, really don't want, is the AU accent attached to another character like that- ever. The whole premise of Miraanda's accent also being marketed, to appeal to NA males in particular, was highly disturbing. It also caused problems, for me, and other aussie/NZ women on ME3 MP. Some comments, that got really annoying, really quickly, whenever my friends or I spoke in the lobby:
'Oh my god you sound like Miranda, and thats hot.' < this is the PG version.
Now we are talking about character's accent? Seriously? Okay, I understand Bioware using physical sex appeal to attract the male audience but now we are talking about accents? Seriously? I guess Samantha's accent in ME3 was supposed to attract lesbians then? I guess Bioware should NEVER have a female who has an Auzzie accent because they do not want to offend female gamers with Auzzie accents from being harrassed and pulled asside and being told that they sound like Miranda. Seriously, is this where we are going with this.....accents? This is the type of stuff I am talking about here, people with their argument against anything that appears to have some sort of "this was intended for males" connotation to it while ignoring the many connotations that were intended for females. I mean seriously, she singles out Miranda who brings up her looks (and accent) as a way to appeal to males. Again, and Jacob's outfit as well as Thane's appearance/swagger wasn't meant to appeal to females?
Again, this reply proves my argument right here. She wanted to twist it to make it seem like Bioware only meant to put in sex appeal to draw in male gamers but is ignorant to the fact that characters like Thane had looks and features that were mean to be seen as attractive by the female audience.
I will end it out on this quote of yours,
"I personally found the male in the MEA poster very appealing. Heck I found the N7 trailer guy appealing. Women love men who project strength. Is it so wrong that the female is posed to appeal to men and possibly lesbians? *shrug* idk"
Great Point here and another thing that shows the hypocrisy of many of the people here. People were judging the "sexy pose" of the female N7 of the recently released concept art as being "too sexy" and yet nobody mentions anything about the male. Like you said, women in general (not all women) are attracted to the strength and physical prowess of a male and that pose by the male N7 does that but people want to single out her because she is a female and the way our society is today in regards to women's portrayal in media, it was only a matter of time when people bring up the N7 lady and criticize Bioware for making her look sexy just like it was only a matter of time when this thread would become dominated by Miranda, EDI, Samara, and Jack while placing Jacob and Thane in the back seat....because the climate in society today is geared towards women in media rather than women AND men's portrayal in media.
Yea why everything has to be about how sexy they look. They are soldiers, probably on a mission, they could not care less how sexy they look. Is that really everything people care about these days ? 
Leave that for the sex scenes or off duty if you must. I though this game was for mature people 18 plus not for horny teenagers. 
Well guess what? Not everyone wants to be practical or logical. So that should reflect to the characters as well.
There should be some characters who just have flashy outfit for the hell of it. Because that's how it is in real life as well. ESPECIALY when you are not in the army.
Doesnt matter if you are in the army or not. Running around in spandex with no protection, heels, and also exposing skin and face in combat and OUTER SPACE all make no sense, break immersion, and extremely impractical.
You can give a character a story through their look without making them look impractical, many game have done this.
Jacob and Thane HAVE been brought up. The focus falls more on the female characters because this topic is more pronounced with them. Again, Jacob's outfit was tight, but not so tight that you could make out his navel and the shape of his genitals. In fact, he barely had a bulge at all. Thane's outfit was revealing in the same way that Samara's was. They've been brought up about the same amount. The amount of discussion seems to correlate with the extent of the objectification. Miranda and EDI are the most blatant, so they get mentioned the most. Stop looking for 'SJW' (eyeroll) conspiracy theories everywhere.
With regard to the poster, both characters are posed in ways people might attractive. The male is posed in a way that looks natural for a soldier. The female is posed in a pin-up pose that doesn't jive with her role as a soldier. There are 'sexy' poses for women that could also make sense for a female soldier in full armor. Like the one for the male. But instead, she got an unrealistic pose and he didn't. That's what people are bringing up. It would be like if she was standing in his pose but was facing camera and flexing. It wouldn't make sense.
Also, I've heard that if you say SJW three times at midnight, Anita Sarkeesian will appear behind you and force you to romance Anders.
But like I mentioned in previous replies, the OP intended this thread to be about armor in COMBAT, not armor in general. With that being said, who cares if Miranda has a fat butt or EDI has a cameltoe, this thread wasnt about too much revealing in armor but rather about characters going into combat with light armor in comparison to Shepard who is all decked out in armor and plates of protection.
Yes, Thane and Jacob does not have their man-bits easily traced out in their uniform, but they STILL have skin tight clothes that they go into combat with so I expect them to be mentioned just as much as their female counterparts but people in this thread seem to be unable to do that. They use Miranda's butt cam scenes (Which are non combat btw) and Edi's cameltoe as an excuse to shift this conversation into women instead of women AND men like the OP intended this to be about.
Think I am wrong? Just go back to that reply I quoted from AWTEW who makes it seem like Bioware is ONLY doing things to attract the male audience which is not the case.
AS for the pose, WHO CARES. It is just concept art and not actual in game assets. So what, she is a female in a "sexy" pose and it is unrealistic. WHO CARES, it is CONCEPT ART! It is meant to exaggerate some things. I am sorry people are so sensitive. Now people are being offended and uneased by concept art.....
Tbh in this poster, the male isn't "sexualized". He appears as "strong, determined". I see nothing sexualizing on the male.
The female... well, not THAT sexualized but still the pose is unnecessary. They could just make her stand, like a human. She'd still be sexy anyway.
Tbh in this poster, the male isn't "sexualized". He appears as "strong, determined". I see nothing sexualizing on the male.
The female... well, not THAT sexualized but still the pose is unnecessary. They could just make her stand, like a human. She'd still be sexy anyway.
Like HazeGurl said, women in general find it sexy for men to be "strong and determined" and men generally like such poses on a women so Bioware went with that. Whether it is a realistic pose or not does not matter cause this is just concept art and not a final ingame animation in which a female purposely goes into that stance to check her holo map.
People will find anything to whine about.
But like I mentioned in previous replies, the OP intended this thread to be about armor in COMBAT, not armor in general. With that being said, who cares if Miranda has a fat butt or EDI has a cameltoe, this thread wasnt about too much revealing in armor but rather about characters going into combat with light armor in comparison to Shepard who is all decked out in armor and plates of protection.
Yes, Thane and Jacob does not have their man-bits easily traced out in their uniform, but they STILL have skin tight clothes that they go into combat with so I expect them to be mentioned just as much as their female counterparts but people in this thread seem to be unable to do that.
Think I am wrong? Just go back to that reply I quoted from AWTEW who makes it seem like Bioware is ONLY doing things to attract the male audience which is not the case.
AS for the pose, WHO CARES. It is just concept art and not actual in game assets. So what, she is a female in a "sexy" pose and it is unrealistic. WHO CARES, it is CONCEPT ART! It is meant to exaggerate some things. I am sorry people are so sensitive. Now people are being offended by concept art.....
There is nothing wrong with the art of the female N7 above, thats a stretch and I dont really get the complaint. As for the butts, it has more to do with the skin tight outfit being worn than the ass itself. Miranda still has a huge ass when she is in the plated armour, but guess what? She's wearing armour, thats all that matters. You are misinterpreting the arguments here
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