3626 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Pointing out laughable 'sexy lady' poses for soldiers or female characters running into battle in catsuits that show the outline of their genitals =/= offended. Honestly I think you are the only person offended in this thread. You seem offended that people don't share your opinion on how cool the sexy ladies are. I also love how you've switched tact this morning and are trying to preserve the integrity of the OPs wishes despite the OP soundly dismissing your arguments numerous times already.

[WildOrchid]

Like HazeGurl said, women in general find it sexy for men to be "strong and determined" and men generally like such poses on a women so Bioware went with that. Whether it is a realistic pose or not does not matter cause this is just concept art and not a final ingame animation in which a female purposely goes into that stance to check her holo map.

 

As a lesbian, i don't find the female pose sexy. I find it exaggerating as heck.

 

But hey, not everyone finds the female pose sexy or the male pose sexy. Tastes vary. A lot of men here find the pose on the female ridiculous.

 

So yeah, your argument is weak.

[SolNebula]

Well I love sexy ladies as the next straight guy but I do admit I never liked ME2 "suits" and the camera angles with Miranda...were funny to say the least. I think the golden rule is putting everything in context. You can be the sexiest woman soldier in the galaxy however when you go to battle you put your uniform/armor on....which is designed to protect, not to seduce. However when out of duty I'm not against the same soldier wanting to be more feminine. It's about common sense I think....hope.....

[Majestic Jazz]

There is nothing wrong with the art of the female N7 above, thats a stretch and I dont really get the complaint. As for the butts, it has more to do with the skin tight outfit being worn than the ass itself. Miranda still has a huge ass when she is in the plated armour, but guess what? She's wearing armour, thats all that matters. You are misinterpreting the arguments here

 

No, I understand your arguments. I didn't at first because I was going off of the replies instead of your original post. When I went back and read your OP I saw that it was about unrealistic armor in combat for females AND males which extended to Jacob and Thane. It was then when I went back again to realize that despite your original post, the thread (even before I came into it) was mainly about the representation of females in the game.....in AND out of combat. So many people took your original concept and twisted it to a way that kinda derails your original intention. Like I keep saying, look at AWTEW's reply and you'll understand what I am talking about. She isn't the only one but is the most recent one. 

 

I understand what you were trying to do with this thread initially, but instead many others came and twisted it in a way that aligns with their particular sensitivities that really has no basis in your OP which again was about combat situations where Shepard is all protected and people like Jack and Thane are not. It went from, both men and women going into combat with unrealistic armor to....female genitalia being displayed while in combat. 

 

If I am wrong, then perhaps I comprehended your OP in the wrong way. 

[Majestic Jazz]

As a lesbian, i don't find the female pose sexy. I find it exaggerating as heck.

 

But hey, not everyone finds the female pose sexy or the male pose sexy. Tastes vary. A lot of men here find the pose on the female ridiculous.

 

So yeah, your argument is weak.

 

It wasn't my argument, it was HazeGurl's argument, I was just quoting her. My argument is that it is concept art and that it isn't a final ingame animation and that people will find anything to complain about. Again, concept art.....really?

[WildOrchid]

It wasn't my argument, it was HazeGurl's argument, I was just quoting her. My argument is that it is concept art and that it isn't a final ingame animation and that people will find anything to complain about. Again, concept art.....really?

 

Yes, we know it's concept art, calm down. Even concept arts have to be ridiculous from time to time.

[Majestic Jazz]

Yes, we know it's concept art, calm down. Even concept arts have to be ridiculous from time to time.

 

To me concept art is nothing but exaggeration and not just in videogames but even with fashion and cars. 

[Awkward Octopus]

Jacob and Thane HAVE been brought up. The focus falls more on the female characters because this topic is more pronounced with them. Again, Jacob's outfit was tight, but not so tight that you could make out his navel and the shape of his genitals. In fact, he barely had a bulge at all. Thane's outfit was revealing in the same way that Samara's was. They've been brought up about the same amount. The amount of discussion seems to correlate with the extent of the objectification. Miranda and EDI are the most blatant, so they get mentioned the most. Stop looking for 'SJW' (eyeroll) conspiracy theories everywhere.

With regard to the poster, both characters are posed in ways people might find attractive. The male is posed in a way that looks natural for a soldier. The female is posed in a pin-up pose that doesn't jive with her role as a soldier. There are 'sexy' poses for women that could also make sense for a female soldier in full armor. Like the one for the male. But instead, she got an unrealistic pose and he didn't. That's what people are bringing up. It would be like if she was standing in his pose but he was facing camera and flexing. It wouldn't make sense.

Also, I've heard that if you say SJW three times at midnight, Anita Sarkeesian will appear behind you and force you to romance Anders.

 

^ This. There's a term called "False Equivalence" and it's pretty much what you're talking about here. You can't ignore creative intent, and the message being sent to the audience. The way characters are shot and posed, the context they're put in, etc., are cues to the audience to let us know what we're supposed to think about them.

 

Both the men and women we're discussing here have these super idealized body types, sure. But men are idealized with athletic bodies, and women with supermodel bodies. Those bodies types tend to suggest different things. The male athletic body conveys strength and ability. The female supermodel body conveys beauty and sexuality. These are not the same thing, hence, false equivalence. Apples and oranges, so to speak. It's not fair to compare those two things and call them equal.

I think there might be fewer objections if the women, or at least some of them, were depicted with athletic bodies, too. Particularly ones who are supposed to be in a military organization. And hey, I get it, people want their fantasy! But look: ALL the men have athletic bodies, and ALL the women supermodel ones. Consider the following: is the super heavy-muscled dude body what women think is ideal in men, or what men think is ideal in men? Have you asked many women?

 

Look at characters in say, comic books, that women tend to say they think are attractive: Gambit and Nightwing are often used examples. These are athletic bodies, but they're slim, like swimmers or gymnasts, and uh, flexible.

And then we have the poses and framing - Jacob might have some defined buttocks (I can't remember, does he have the epic wedgie Miranda has?), but he's not subjected to the male-gazey butt-cam. And Thane might have a chest window, but does that exposed patch of skin really seem like the same level of objectification as EDI's, er... vacuum packaging?

I'm not saying don't have sexy bodies, or sexy situations. Just... have them in the appropriate places.

[Malleficae]

Where does Asari Commando armor fall under this? 

 

I would wear it by myself because I like such designs but I'm 100% sure now that all those sexualized catsuits are here because all those fighters are huge BDSM fans. People noticed that fighters who like pain might be effective even after getting hurt so they get massively employed. Whole story. You don't need to thank me for explanation. c:

[WildOrchid]

I like the commando outfit tho.

[SolNebula]

Love the Asari commando outfit too.

[Rannik]

I'm fine with characters having flashy impractical outfits provided the consequences of wearing those outfits is reflected in their abiities.

 

Alright, but that includes the PC getting one-shot, being more easily blinded and more vulnerable to trauma if not wearing a helmet.

[AresKeith]

I like the commando outfit tho.

I don't :S

[The Elder King]

Nah, that was caused by BioWare seeing the success of Skyrim and deliberately trying to create a more open world.

I know, and I hope Bioware finds a Better balance in MEA . I wasn't the one that Made that ridicolous claim.

But like I mentioned in previous replies, the OP intended this thread to be about armor in COMBAT, not armor in general. With that being said, who cares if Miranda has a fat butt or EDI has a cameltoe, this thread wasnt about too much revealing in armor but rather about characters going into combat with light armor in comparison to Shepard who is all decked out in armor and plates of protection.

Yes, Thane and Jacob does not have their man-bits easily traced out in their uniform, but they STILL have skin tight clothes that they go into combat with so I expect them to be mentioned just as much as their female counterparts but people in this thread seem to be unable to do that. They use Miranda's butt cam scenes (Which are non combat btw) and Edi's cameltoe as an excuse to shift this conversation into women instead of women AND men like the OP intended this to be about.

Think I am wrong? Just go back to that reply I quoted from AWTEW who makes it seem like Bioware is ONLY doing things to attract the male audience which is not the case.


AS for the pose, WHO CARES. It is just concept art and not actual in game assets. So what, she is a female in a "sexy" pose and it is unrealistic. WHO CARES, it is CONCEPT ART! It is meant to exaggerate some things. I am sorry people are so sensitive. Now people are being offended and uneased by concept art.....

The problem is that Your posts seem to suggest that everyone here complained about those, Which They don't. Plenty of people focused on the combat and said they're fine with Miranda and EDI, along Jacob and Thane, wearing whatever They want off duty.
Though I don't understand why a person Who don't like buttcams or EDI's cameltoe has to have an hidden agenda or being a SJW. Saying that Not liking them=SJW is a bit of a stretch.

[Monica21]

Also, I've heard that if you say SJW three times at midnight, Anita Sarkeesian will appear behind you and force you to romance Anders.

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Lady Artifice]

No, I understand your arguments. I didn't at first because I was going off of the replies instead of your original post. When I went back and read your OP I saw that it was about unrealistic armor in combat for females AND males which extended to Jacob and Thane. It was then when I went back again to realize that despite your original post, the thread (even before I came into it) was mainly about the representation of females in the game.....in AND out of combat. So many people took your original concept and twisted it to a way that kinda derails your original intention. Like I keep saying, look at AWTEW's reply and you'll understand what I am talking about. She isn't the only one but is the most recent one. 
 
I understand what you were trying to do with this thread initially, but instead many others came and twisted it in a way that aligns with their particular sensitivities that really has no basis in your OP which again was about combat situations where Shepard is all protected and people like Jack and Thane are not. It went from, both men and women going into combat with unrealistic armor to....female genitalia being displayed while in combat. 
 
If I am wrong, then perhaps I comprehended your OP in the wrong way.

I think you're being over sensitive to people discussing it. You've finally accepted the OPs intent as benign, now consider that maybe most of the other posters here are the same. They just want to discuss what they would deem "over sexualized" and consider what other people have to say. There's no outrage, and no one is offended.

For example, im pro catsuit. Im generally pro factoring in the aesthetic appeal of armor BEFORE factoring in how realistic it is. But I can understand why most other people here look at a catsuit and laugh at the idea of someone wearing it into combat. It's really easy to discuss this casually without it being an issue of or right and wrong.

[KaiserShep]

My thing about the female PC in that pic is that it seems rather confused. Is she walking? Her legs seem mid-stride then there's the odd shoulder thing. I think the image would have worked so much better if it was sort of a mirror image pose.

[FKA_Servo]

I know, and I hope Bioware finds a Better balance in MEA . I wasn't the one that Made that ridicolous claim. The problem is that Your posts seem to suggest that everyone here complained about those, Which They don't. Plenty of people focused on the combat and said they're fine with Miranda and EDI, along Jacob and Thane, wearing whatever They want off duty.
Though I don't understand why a person Who don't like buttcams or EDI's cameltoe has to have an hidden agenda or being a SJW. Saying that Not liking them=SJW is a bit of a stretch.

 

Either you're a brittle nineteen year old derping around on the forums about the feminists who are coming to ruin games forever, or you're a feminist coming to ruin games forever. No room in the middle for someone who just doesn't care for a pressed ham in every cutscene.

[RevilFox]

My thing about the female PC in that pic is that it seems rather confused. Is she waking? Her legs seem mid-stride then there's the odd shoulder thing. I think the image would have worked so much better if it was sort of a mirror image pose.

I think she's getting into pooping position.

[AresKeith]

My thing about the female PC in that pic is that it seems rather confused. Is she waking? Her legs seem mid-stride then there's the odd shoulder thing. I think the image would have worked so much better if it was sort of a mirror image pose.

 

Yeah, my only complaint in that poster is that the female pose just looks awkward 

[PhroXenGold]

Alright, but that includes the PC getting one-shot, being more easily blinded and more vulnerable to trauma if not wearing a helmet.

 

I'm fine with that - although I would probably simply give helmets a good armour value vs anything that hits the head, which you obviously don't get if you don't wear one. Seems the easiest way.

[von uber]

I thought Majestic Jazz had already flounced out of this thread.

 

Anyway, I think it would be most amusing if Miranda had got her high heels stuck in a grating whilst on a mission. Or was permanently lagging behind the rest of the squad. Or had to stop after every cutscene to change back into some flat shoes.

[maia0407]

I'll be thrilled if the none of the characters, particularly women, are sexualized. And, please, spare me the "but, what about the menz?" moaning. Sexism does not affect men like it affects women. Full stop. I don't care about any BS arguments to the contrary as I'm confident that I've heard them all and that they've all been shot down. At any rate, DAI did a good job of not sexualizing the women and presenting them as strong characters. I hope ME follows in their footsteps. If not, I'll be here complaining and pointing out, once again, how ridiculous the sexualized characters are.

[KaiserShep]

It really depends on the situation. As the game will obviously have romance content, some sexualization would be welcome, but hopefully the gratuitous dat view is dead and buried.

[maia0407]

Romance is great! And, there's a way to do it without sexualizing the characters. There is nothing wrong with sexuality; the problem comes in when its gratuitous. I can't stand women characters that are only there to be sexy as if there's nothing else to them. I agree, hopefully BW has outgrown the silly ass cam!