3626 réponses à ce sujet

[FKA_Servo]

Kind of confused. Do you mean how could she be overly sexualised, or how could she be not much use in a fight? I think both questions have the same answer. Cassandra doesnt seem to be packing much muscle and yet her role is 'the muscle'. So they must have made her skinny for a reason.

 

I think it's just a symptom of "bioware body." Which occasionally requires a bit of suspension of disbelief to get past.

 

That's why the galaxy and Thedas is populated by so many fit and and stacked senior citizens.

[Dr. Rush]

Isabela and Miranda are both great characters, but the artists who designed their outfits are terrible. Breaking the suspension of disbelief for a shitty, sexualized outfit is shameful. 

[Random]

I agree with a lot of previous posters. I don't particularly care what everybody wears on the ship as long as it matches their character. They should, however, be protected in combat situations. 

 

Although it would still be nice to not get ass zoom-ins. As a bisexual female, I feel uncomfortable if they do that for EITHER gender. 

 

But then again, I never like to be FORCED to do anything. If I want to check out Miranda or Jacob's ass, I'll do it by myself! A little subtlety can go a long way, in my opinion. 

 

And about the concept poster, the artist who 'fixed' the poster on tumbler commented on how the pose doesn't make sense, not necessarily that women can't have sex appeal in video games.
 

 

 

As excited I was about ME:A being announced, this (i’m sure very fast) concept art put a bad taste in my mouth. Just goes to show how silly poses for women are so ingrained into artist’s heads that they probably did it without thinking, not realizing how they broke her out of perspective (check her shoulders and feet against the man) just to achieve it too. I mean they were probably drawn separately but no one was like wait a second… lol

 

Happy space adventuring!

 

 

It makes me wonder what the picture would look like if the male and female poses were swapped. Reminds me of the Hawkeye initiative, where they switched female comic book heroines out with...Hawkeye. 

 

 

Not to say that men don't ever get weird poses either. Just look at the eyesores on a lot of romance novels. 

 

 

I think he's trying to emulate Derek Zoolander

 

[FKA_Servo]

More LOL! She is serious.....the bolded part makes you look like a fem-n-a-z-i

 

And this makes you sound like a Rush Limbaugh fan.

 

Trust me, this is not a good look either.

[Indigenous]

I think it's just a symptom of "bioware body." Which occasionally requires a bit of suspension of disbelief to get past.

 

That's why the galaxy and Thedas is populated by so many fit and and stacked senior citizens.

Don't think Aveline or Isabella got that message. But the female bodies in DA I do look similiar. Must be because of the romance scenes.

[maia0407]

You realize most sensible people hate Anita Sarkeesian because she in at least in respect to video games a moron, and has no real credibility. Certain parts of the feminist movement do great things the push for female protagonists is great but anita has a bad habit of nitpicking and or simply pointing out gender identifiers in 8 bit graphics yes they had ****** or bow that because they took up 4 pixels and it was an easy way to convey a message in a day in age when all your base belongs to us was top notch writing. yes some people hate Anita because shes a feminist, i think most hate her because shes a bad representation of feminists who if anything is setting the movement back by damaging their credbility. 

 

Most feminists want to be treated equally, Anita wants to be treated special,

I disagree. Asserting that Anita is a 'moron' in regards to video games isn't an argument against the criticisms she's made about gaming. Asserting that's she wants to be 'special' isn't an argument either; both assertions are distractions that don't address any points being made. The fact is, video games do not have a history of portraying women in a positive light. Of course, Anita is going to criticize older games. Even in our more 'enlightened' times, the problems still exist. Bioware is better about it's treatment of women but still has issues as well. This type of criticism is necessary to get change. Some people don't want this change as it threatens their privileged position within the medium. So sad, too bad. Change is happening.

[Patchwork]

Kind of confused. Do you mean how could she be overly sexualised, or how could she be 'not much use' in a fight? I think both questions have the same answer. Cassandra doesnt seem to be packing much muscle and yet her role is 'the muscle'. So they must have made her skinny for a reason.

 

She can't be a Tank because she's doesn't have Iron Bull like muscles?

 

I don't agree but whatever. 

[maia0407]

This thread will go south pretty quickly

 

 

 

 

Nope she sounds dead serious.....time for me to take my leave....Lol.

 

 

More LOL! She is serious.....the bolded part makes you look like a fem-n-a-z-i

Oh, no! The horror! lol

[Angry_Elcor]

What, I really, really don't want, is the AU accent attached to another character like that- ever. The whole premise of Miraanda's accent also being marketed, to appeal to NA males in particular, was highly disturbing. It also caused problems, for me, and other aussie/NZ women on ME3 MP. Some comments, that got really annoying, really quickly, whenever my friends or I spoke in the lobby:

 

'Oh my god you sound like Miranda, and thats hot.' < this is the PG version.

 

 

I suppose reality is over-rated. I still like to maintain at least some small connection to it, personally.

[CrutchCricket]

Oh hey, what's this thread been up to since...

 

 

Oh.

 

[Indigenous]

She can't be a Tank because she's doesn't have Iron Bull like muscles?

 

I don't agree but whatever. 

I am being overly realistic here but yeah, I think Serena Wiliams would not be where she is today without those muscles and Rhonda Rousey...

 

Come on you cant disagree with that.

[The Elder King]

Oh hey, what's this thread been up to since...
 
 
Oh.
 

I'd do this, but I was having an interesting discussion.

[RevilFox]

What blows my mind about the Anita Sarkeesian stuff is the fact that the atomic reaction to her videos proves her point way more than the videos themselves, and people don't seem to realize this. I also don't agree with a lot of her content. I  think that while she's right about gaming as a whole, any time you pick out individual examples from a larger base you lose all of the context. But what she's saying absolutely needs to be said.

[Cyonan]

As fun as it is to have the Anita debate, she's just acting like 99% of the other people on the internet who are trying to make a point. There's a lot of misrepresentation and cherry picking while everybody on both sides of the debate have their head too far up their backside to listen to any valid points or criticisms that the other side might have.

 

On what I am not entirely convinced is the topic of this thread anymore, I personally don't mind the sexualized armour outfits like what Ashley or Liara were rocking in ME3. I did find the catsuit a little bit ridiculous though.

 

Except on Kasumi. Kasumi is love. Kasumi is life.

[Pasquale1234]

I absolutely consider thinking of things that are pure rule of cool/plot convenience as being more acceptable than an idea that has more basis in science fact for no real reason as being a double standard.
 
"These ridiculous technologies are fine, but this not that far out there technology isn't because reasons".

The hordes of mercenaries that get absolutely slaughtered.

I'm sorry, but throwing them up as an example of why armor is effective in this setting isn't a good argument. If you want to complain that Bioware is portraying catsuit wearing Miranda and topless Jack as more combat proficient than the legions of mooks wearing armor, complain about that, but don't call them idiots for not wearing armor when they're demonstrably more dangerous than 99% of the people who do.

Perhaps you've not noticed this discussion is about aesthetics, not actual gameplay mechanics. As near as I can tell, the mechanics haven't used actual armor values for Shepard & Co. since ME1. Starting with ME2, Shepard's armor choices gave other types of bonuses. And a lot of the enemy mooks who appear to be wearing armor don't actually have armor defense layers in their stats.

But since virtually all of the other non-monster mooks we face in the games appear to be wearing armor, that sets the overall visual aesthetic for MEU. Companions who don't wear armor look out of place in that setting, and there's your double standard - they don't follow the same rules that are applied to everyone else. They look like brainless twits who don't have the common sense to prepare for hazardous situations. I could argue that Jack would be the first in line for combat armor, since self-preservation is her priority one. A 700-year-old warrior monk would have protective armor, too.
 

When necessity, practicality, utility, and efficiency are the sole/primary concerns, everyone ends up looking homogenized and boring. Miranda, Jack, Thane, and Samara all have unique and interesting looks that help separate them from the pack and make the stand out. I do not care how impractical those outfits appear to anyone - none of us are the arbiters of what does and does not qualify as light armor in this series - I care that the characters have distinctive, memorable appearances.

Once that is established, then we can worry about practicality, as far as I'm concerned.

And I like equipping them for combat. It was a part of role-play I enjoyed in ME1, and have not been able to do since. I vaguely remember having a bit of trouble picking out Garrus in his ME2 blue armor on the battlefield, when most of the enemies were turian Blue Suns who looked just like him at a glance. ME1 allowed me to put the entire team in the same armor if I so desire - and I really miss the ability to make my squad look like a cohesive combat unit in combat.

[RevilFox]

By the way, the argument "I don't care what they wear on the ship or in town, but if they're going off into battle" has won me over. I'm super in favor of character's dressing like their personality dictates, but I'm now in this camp.

 

 

See? You CAN change people's minds. Even on the internet!

[Quarian Master Race]

This thread will go south pretty quickly

 

Nope she sounds dead serious.....time for me to take my leave....Lol.

 

More LOL! She is serious.....the bolded part makes you look like a fem-n-a-z-i

This thread's been a dump since people started shouting SJW at everyone who disagreed with them.

Why? Don't want to deal with the truth?

Using the term femnazi makes you sound like a moron

 

You realize most sensible people hate Anita Sarkeesian because she in at least in respect to video games a moron, and has no real credibility. Certain parts of the feminist movement do great things the push for female protagonists is great but anita has a bad habit of nitpicking and or simply pointing out gender identifiers in 8 bit graphics yes they had ****** or bow that because they took up 4 pixels and it was an easy way to convey a message in a day in age when all your base belongs to us was top notch writing. yes some people hate Anita because shes a feminist, i think most hate her because shes a bad representation of feminists who if anything is setting the movement back by damaging their credbility

nope. The sheer amount of rape, death and bomb threats and social media harrassment against her really says it all about how "sensible" most people who "hate" her are. She criticizes video games.......and numerous people want to kill her (well, they would, if they could physically leave their moms' basements). If she really were fringe, than people would just ignore her. Instead, idiot gamers resort to groupthink and mob mentality harrasment, meanwhile vindicating everything she says (no matter its accuracy) to "sensible" people that aren't hardcore gamers and making the majority of us look bad.

Her credibility is a master's degree in a related field and an actual job. Grow the hell up and ignore her if you don't like her ideological bent.

[Hazegurl]

 

Thanks for the support. I think you do a way better job at explaining this than I have. My point was, I accept the fact that the OP went into this thread intended to have a thoughtful conversation about characters in combat not wearing full armor like Commander Shepard. However, when I read the OP I had this innate feeling that instead of talking about ALL characters with skin tight clothing in combat, the conversation would eventually slip into exclusively talking about the female characters while Thane who looks like a futuristic pimp with outfit and having his chest exposed and Jacob with his male cat suit and his "bulge".

 

Perhaps the OP had the greatest of intentions as he describes himself as being anti-SJW but that does not take away from the idea that this thread's title alone attracts those of the Politically Correct/SJW/Sensitive-Easily Offended/Women are too Sexualized in Games people. 

 

 

In fact all you have to do is look to a reply like this:

 

 

Again, this reply proves my argument right here. She wanted to twist it to make it seem like Bioware only meant to put in sex appeal to draw in male gamers but is ignorant to the fact that characters like Thane had looks and features that were mean to be seen as attractive by the female audience.

 

I will end it out on this quote of yours,

 

Great Point here and another thing that shows the hypocrisy of many of the people here. People were judging the "sexy pose" of the female N7 of the recently released concept art as being "too sexy" and yet nobody mentions anything about the male. Like you said, women in general (not all women) are attracted to the strength and physical prowess of a male and that pose by the male N7 does that but people want to single out her because she is a female and the way our society is today in regards to women's portrayal in media, it was only a matter of time when people bring up the N7 lady and criticize Bioware for making her look sexy just like it was only a matter of time when this thread would become dominated by Miranda, EDI, Samara, and Jack while placing Jacob and Thane in the back seat....because the climate in society today is geared towards women in media rather than women AND men's portrayal in media. 
 

 

I don't know if I agree with calling people SJWs but you are right about the thread primarily shifting to the women and I think its either because women are typically portrayed sexually and therefore more folks are sensitive to it or people really don't find the males portrayal all that offensive period.  Which would fall into the realm of hypocrisy if true.  The Miranda accent thing, pretty much just says to me that BW shouldn't listen to anyone here.  Something I've been saying for a long time anyway.  There is nothing they can ever do that someone won't take offense to for some reason.  So they might as well focus on making their game however they want and call it a day.  They could make everyone silent and throw burlap sacks over them and someone would find offense. 

 

However, those Miranda butt shots got a bit tiring after a while.  Especially since Kaidan wasn't getting nearly enough buttshots in ME3.

Overall, I have no issues with BW appealing sexually to players both male and female and it's only natural that a man standing a certain way will appeal to some sexually while a woman standing another way will appeal to others. A part of me wonders if the MEA posters were meant to entice the audience with a bit of sex appeal.  In which case both the male and female are portrayed somewhat sexually.

[CrutchCricket]

Kasumi is love. Kasumi is life.

If everyone understood and accepted this, the world would be a better place.

[PhroXenGold]

 

This thread's been a dump since people started shouting SJW at everyone who disagreed with them.

Why? Don't want to deal with the truth?

Using the term femnazi makes you sound like a moron

 

nope. The sheer amount of rape, death and bomb threats and social media harrassment against her really says it all about how "sensible" most people who "hate" her are. She criticizes video games.......and numerous people want to kill her (well, they would, if they could physically leave their moms' basements). If she really were fringe, than people would just ignore her. Instead, idiot gamers resort to groupthink and mob mentality harrasment, meanwhile vindicating everything she says (no matter its accuracy) to "sensible" people that aren't hardcore gamers and making the majority of us look bad.

Her credibility is a master's degree in a related field and an actual job. Grow the hell up and ignore her if you don't like her ideological bent.

 

 

While there are certainly a lot of pathetic bigots who dislike her because she's a woman who dares criticise a traditionally male centric activity (gaming), there are a lot of people who critcise her because she is a liar who misrepresents games to make them appear sexist even when they aren't. What makes this even worse is that there is certainly a degree of sexism in game development, so why she has to fabricate so much more of it is beyond me...well, actually it's not. She's looking for publicity. Nothing more.

[Altair_ShepardN7]

If everyone understood and accepted this, the world would be a better place.

AMEN!

[SolNebula]

 

This thread's been a dump since people started shouting SJW at everyone who disagreed with them.

Why? Don't want to deal with the truth?

Using the term femnazi makes you sound like a moron

 

 

I know you want me to rage but nope you shall not have your prize. Troll-attempt failed!

 

 

And this makes you sound like a Rush Limbaugh fan.

 

Trust me, this is not a good look either.

 

how you know? I absolutely love his ties!!

[maia0407]

 

This thread's been a dump since people started shouting SJW at everyone who disagreed with them.

Why? Don't want to deal with the truth?

Using the term femnazi makes you sound like a moron

 

nope. The sheer amount of rape, death and bomb threats and social media harrassment against her really says it all about how "sensible" most people who "hate" her are. She criticizes video games.......and numerous people want to kill her (well, they would, if they could physically leave their moms' basements). If she really were fringe, than people would just ignore her. Instead, idiot gamers resort to groupthink and mob mentality harrasment, meanwhile vindicating everything she says (no matter its accuracy) to "sensible" people that aren't hardcore gamers and making the majority of us look bad.

Her credibility is a master's degree in a related field and an actual job. Grow the hell up and ignore her if you don't like her ideological bent.

Honestly, his use of feminazi made me laugh. I couldn't help but picture him shifting his eyes around and whispering behind his hand not to act like such a 'feminazi'! *gasp* I might ruin my street cred or sumthin! I've already claimed the feminist word which seems to be a big no-no around these parts. Just for the record, I am not ashamed to be a feminist! Along those same lines, being called a SJW won't freak me out either. Good grief, this forum needs some diversity if these words are surround by so much fear.

 

And, I agree, the reactions to Anita are scary. I automatically side eye people that dismiss her out of hand.

[Awkward Octopus]

It's just like literally any academic criticism.

 

When you were sitting in English class analyzing To Kill a Mockingbird (for example, this is required reading for almost every American, I know not everyone here is American, insert your reading material of choice), you didn't have to agree with any of the analysis or what your teacher was saying or cliff notes or whatever, the point was to bring up topics of discussion and exercise your ability to think critically.

 

In the case of this thread (if it gets back on the rails), I don't think anyone is saying "Bioware, you MUST make this change!" or saying that the depictions are inherently bad, terrible things (stupid, sometimes, but not evil), it's just a topic of conversation. "Hey, is this really the best way to depict this character or this theme? Is this particular situation the best time for that camera angle? Is there a better alternative that everyone can enjoy? Can we have a better variety of options so everyone is happy? Here's an example..."

 

Etc.

[SolNebula]

Honestly, his use of feminazi made me laugh. I couldn't help but picture him shifting his eyes around and whispering behind his hand not to act like such a 'feminazi'! *gasp* I might ruin my street cred or sumthin! I've already claimed the feminist word which seems to be a big no-no around these parts. Just for the record, I am not ashamed to be a feminist! Along those same lines, being called a SJW won't freak me out either. Good grief, this forum needs some diversity if these words are surround by so much fear.

 

And, I agree, the reactions to Anita are scary. I automatically side eye people that dismiss her out of hand.

 

Please do continue.