3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

If she really were fringe, than people would just ignore her. Instead, idiot gamers resort to groupthink and mob mentality harrasment, meanwhile vindicating everything she says to "sensible" people that aren't hardcore gamers and making the majority of us look bad.

 

Her credibility is a master's degree in a related field and an actual job. Grow the hell up and ignore her if you don't like her ideological bent.

She spouts controversial opinions on the internet. She is now a public figure. If she didn't want to be harassed she should have thought it twice before giving up that precious anonymity. Of course, I find it hard to feel sorry for her when she would have to be pretty damn naive to not know what would happen and has been taking advantage of the controversy for free publicity.

 

It's truly fascinating how people didn't give a rat's ass when Jack Thomson was harassed. But then he's an old white male conservative, so I guess he deserved it. Myself, I have no respect for Sarkeesian or her nonsense, and the fact that so many people listen to her is what's truly scary in this picture. Does she deserve death threats? No one does. But I think it would be rude of me to wish them to stop when she's profited so much from them!

 

By the way, the argument "I don't care what they wear on the ship or in town, but if they're going off into battle" has won me over. I'm super in favor of character's dressing like their personality dictates, but I'm now in this camp.

 

See? You CAN change people's minds. Even on the internet!

Sounds good to me. But you know what else sounds good to me? Flashy comic book armor. Know why? Because it's just an aesthetic choice. People can call 'realism' all they like. I really don't buy it. Maybe the day Bioware DOES jump into the realism wagon I'll take them more seriously. But I get it; who doesn't like a chance to push their political agenda? I've been guilty of it a couple times. Hell, that's what I'm doing right now. I think a creator's artistic choices trump everything else, even 'realism', and I'll defend that to my last breath.

[FKA_Servo]

^Just got a little too edgy for me. I'm worried I might cut myself.

 

I think that's enough of this thread for today.

[Star fury]

Oh hey, what's this thread been up to since...

 

 

Oh.

 

Will you be banned for your gif is more interesting. I know people who were banned for less.

[camphor]

 

This thread's been a dump since people started shouting SJW at everyone who disagreed with them.

Why? Don't want to deal with the truth?

Using the term femnazi makes you sound like a moron

 

nope. The sheer amount of rape, death and bomb threats and social media harrassment against her really says it all about how "sensible" most people who "hate" her are. She criticizes video games.......and numerous people want to kill her (well, they would, if they could physically leave their moms' basements). If she really were fringe, than people would just ignore her. Instead, idiot gamers resort to groupthink and mob mentality harrasment, meanwhile vindicating everything she says (no matter its accuracy) to "sensible" people that aren't hardcore gamers and making the majority of us look bad.

Her credibility is a master's degree in a related field and an actual job. Grow the hell up and ignore her if you don't like her ideological bent.

 

first things first she gets harassed that sucks, but just because someones harassed doesn't mean they are right in any fathom

 

also are you new to the internet? everyone gets death threats I have gotten death threats it sucks that there is a small vocal overly obsessed minority looking to wreck her life. but once again Anita Sarkeesian is more well known for her harassment then the acurracy of her statements. That has more to do with the fact she is objectively wrong in many of the motivations she pins on others., then the fact shes a feminist. yes she gets it worse then she deserves. 

 

also if you would tell me in what way i need to grow up as i am an adult who owns a business and has a degree. If you were an adult you would realism a degree isnt validation of an opinion even in your respective field, unless your terrible at your job of course then it makes you feel like your less terrible because you passed a few tests in collage. theirs a phd neurosurgeon that's about to attempt a full human head transplant, the mans still a moron.

 

and lastly just because people have follows doesn't mean they arnt fringe, glenn beck has followers, has followers, the crazy people who make death threats against her have followers. and yes they are all fringe.

 

I realise your used to arguing with total idiots so your arrogant, but not only am i not an idiot bigot, i have done more to set the feminist movement hiring women in at a wage equal to a mans then anita ever has by spinning lies and straw man arguments

[Hazegurl]

Both the men and women we're discussing here have these super idealized body types, sure. But men are idealized with athletic bodies, and women with supermodel bodies. Those bodies types tend to suggest different things. The male athletic body conveys strength and ability. The female supermodel body conveys beauty and sexuality. These are not the same thing, hence, false equivalence. Apples and oranges, so to speak. It's not fair to compare those two things and call them equal.

I think there might be fewer objections if the women, or at least some of them, were depicted with athletic bodies, too. Particularly ones who are supposed to be in a military organization. And hey, I get it, people want their fantasy! But look: ALL the men have athletic bodies, and ALL the women supermodel ones. Consider the following: is the super heavy-muscled dude body what women think is ideal in men, or what men think is ideal in men? Have you asked many women?

This is what I was trying to say about the MEA poster.  Both seem to be sexually appealing in a way just portrayed differently to achieve that sex appeal.  The male does have an athletic looking bod without coming across as the incredible Hulk, something I like.  Same goes for the N7 trailer guy.  Heck my favorite armor for MShepard is the Inferno Armor because it's less bulky and more form fitting while still being badass.

 

I believe a lot women like slimmer athletic men who projects strength and capability moreso than Mr. neck muscles James Vega. Though I'm sure there are quite a few who like his type, too.

[maia0407]

Please do continue.

ha!ha!ha!ha!ha! It's hard to be talked down to by 80's man! Anybody else remember him from Futurama?

 

[Cyonan]

Will you be banned for your gif is more interesting. I know people who were banned for less.

 

Being banned/suspended on this forum is pretty much entirely dependent on if somebody bothers to report you for it.

[TRWisco]

I liked isabela and mirandas bodies. Are they overly sexual? yes. is that bad? not really. Would the character have been the same if they had regular bodies? I don't think so.

 

And to the OP, who are you to demand this? if you can't stomach a little sexualization then I feel bad for you. Its just s e x. Mating, Getting it on. Its a part of life! The male in nature typicaly goes for the most sexualized female. Why? Because Nature!!!! yay.

 

As christopher Walken once said: nature versus nurture, nature always wins.

 

(disclaimer: I am a Male. I like Females. I like video games. I also like not caring about what body type a video game character has. unless it doesn't work right[DAI male elf])

 

I also don't see how female shepard was more sexualized in ME3? But that's me. I also wished my male shepard could have a body like Vega's so It looked more awesome when I nova bombed bad guys. But that's just me. (I probably played more as a fem shep than a male shep)

 

Oh yeah! anywho bring on MEA! I want it and I need it. yeah yeah yeah

[KaiserShep]

I thought Isabela's lack of pants was kind of wierd. Naturally, there's a mod that adds some.

[Star fury]

Being banned/suspended on this forum is pretty much entirely dependent on if somebody bothers to report you for it.

It changed with an introduction of new moderators, new mods don't depend only on snitches reporting.

[Quarian Master Race]

 

While there are certainly a lot of pathetic bigots who dislike her because she's a woman who dares criticise a traditionally male centric activity (gaming), there are a lot of people who critcise her because she is a liar who misrepresents games to make them appear sexist even when they aren't. What makes this even worse is that there is certainly a degree of sexism in game development, so why she has to fabricate so much more of it is beyond me...well, actually it's not. She's looking for publicity. Nothing more.

so? If her fabrications are so self evident, why do you care? Do you think the average (non hardcore gamer) person reads video game criticism or will be in any way affected by it? No, but they do see it when dozens of death and rape threats and absurd levels social media harrasment from a massive proportion of gamers against some critic they've never heard of pops up in mainstream media. The content of said critics material then becomes completely irrelevant.

Not that I really care, but if you think she's fringe and just trying to get attention, stop giving her so much attention.

 

She spouts controversial opinions on the internet. She is now a public figure. If she didn't want to be harassed she should have thought it twice before giving up that precious anonymity. Of course, I find it hard to feel sorry for her when she would have to be pretty damn naive to not know what would happen and has been taking advantage of the controversy for free publicity.

 

It's truly fascinating how people didn't give a rat's ass when Jack Thomson was harassed. But then he's an old white male conservative, so I guess he deserved it. Myself, I have no respect for Sarkeesian or her nonsense, and the fact that so many people listen to her is what's truly scary in this picture. Does she deserve death threats? No one does. But I think it would be rude of me to wish them to stop when she's profited so much from them!

This is utterly shocking. When your job is to be a critic of a certain form of media, you should expect rapedeath threats and to have personal information hacked and posted everywhere? Seem's hard to believe that art/media critics of any sort would even exist in such an environment, yet they do, and are not subject to this kind of ridiculous abuse on anywhere near the same scale in film, television or literature for example.

The difference is, Thompson is an actual confirmed fringe loony, who tried to use false statements to destroy the credibility of litigants through the legal process, and was rightfully disbarred for it. Apparently, the Supreme Court of Florida "gave a rat's arse", and I'm sure if Anita tried the same, the result would be similar. Fortunately, all she really does is blog about her literary opinions of women in games, which people are free to disagree with if they think them uninformed, as long as it doesn't involve criminal activity.

No one "profits" from death threats and your tacit approval of them is exactly the reason why normal people tend to think of hardcore gamers as a bunch of Columbines and Sandy Hooks waiting to happen.

[Panda]

It's just like literally any academic criticism.

 

When you were sitting in English class analyzing To Kill a Mockingbird (for example, this is required reading for almost every American, I know not everyone here is American, insert your reading material of choice), you didn't have to agree with any of the analysis or what your teacher was saying or cliff notes or whatever, the point was to bring up topics of discussion and exercise your ability to think critically.

 

In the case of this thread (if it gets back on the rails), I don't think anyone is saying "Bioware, you MUST make this change!" or saying that the depictions are inherently bad, terrible things (stupid, sometimes, but not evil), it's just a topic of conversation. "Hey, is this really the best way to depict this character or this theme? Is this particular situation the best time for that camera angle? Is there a better alternative that everyone can enjoy? Can we have a better variety of options so everyone is happy? Here's an example..."

 

Etc.

 

If only people could share their thoughts in civilized manner ^^;

 

This is what I was trying to say about the MEA poster.  Both seem to be sexually appealing in a way just portrayed differently to achieve that sex appeal.  The male does have an athletic looking bod without coming across as the incredible Hulk, something I like.  Same goes for the N7 trailer guy.  Heck my favorite armor for MShepard is the Inferno Armor because it's less bulky and more form fitting while still being badass.

 

I believe a lot women like slimmer athletic men who projects strength and capability moreso than Mr. neck muscles James Vega. Though I'm sure there are quite a few who like his type, too.

 

Well the thing is that female PC is what female players are excepted to play as, although many myself included does play with both sexes. Female pose in the poster wasn't pose of woman I want to play as and so it bothered me. I'm bit worried it will translate to animation of female character and maybe even how other aspects of character are portrayed as well. I would have very much preferred her having pose similar to male character- pose of someone who is ready to shoot and fight, not one who seems more ready for ballet.

[Hazegurl]

I agree with a lot of previous posters. I don't particularly care what everybody wears on the ship as long as it matches their character. They should, however, be protected in combat situations. 

 

Although it would still be nice to not get ass zoom-ins. As a bisexual female, I feel uncomfortable if they do that for EITHER gender. 

 

Not to say that men don't ever get weird poses either. Just look at the eyesores on a lot of romance novels. 

 

 

I think he's trying to emulate Derek Zoolander

 

 

Oh it does get worse than that believe me. lol!  My mother loves reading those type of books.  I swear 99% of the men have their shirts off with some sort of pronounced bulge going on.

 

And speaking of weird poses

Spoiler

[lastpatriot]

Personally, I will play both sexes just so I can see how the story is different.  My female is usually my "dark side" character...

 

Anyways, I always liked how BioWare created the armor/clothing for Femshep as she looked like a real soldier but at the same time, still had her femininity.  Now what we need is for the male character to run around sporting a nice Speedo.

[Awkward Octopus]

This is what I was trying to say about the MEA poster.  Both seem to be sexually appealing in a way just portrayed differently to achieve that sex appeal.  The male does have an athletic looking bod without coming across as the incredible Hulk, something I like.  Same goes for the N7 trailer guy.  Heck my favorite armor for MShepard is the Inferno Armor because it's less bulky and more form fitting while still being badass.

 

I believe a lot women like slimmer athletic men who projects strength and capability moreso than Mr. neck muscles James Vega. Though I'm sure there are quite a few who like his type, too.

 

The primary issue I have with the poster has more to do with weird anatomy and weak composition. But it looks like a speed painting, so whatever.

 

But really, the male is posed in a way that makes him look strong and competent. Even if you, or any particular lady might like the way he is designed and posed and find it attractive, the primary purpose of it was "doesn't this look like a cool character to play as?" While the female character looks to be posed in such a way that all I get from it is "hey, guys, look, it's a girl!" I personally would prefer they are depicted equally in that she also looks posed with strength and competence. That doesn't mean she can't also be attractive (I thought the "fix" posted earlier was pretty great).

 

EDIT: I should add that I really appreciate that they chose to put the female in the front, and give her the primary focus, but I do think it would have worked better with a stronger pose for her.

[Han Shot First]

I liked isabela and mirandas bodies. Are they overly sexual? yes. is that bad? not really. Would the character have been the same if they had regular bodies? I don't think so.

 

 

I don't think anyone is complaining about their bodies. There is nothing wrong with some characters being designed to be attractive. It is only when that sex appeal seems gratuitous or gets an undue amount of attention that people start to have an issue with it. Examples of that would be Isabela not wearing pants, Samara's armor being unzipped to her naval, Miranda wearing a catsuit into battle, or the camera angles where instead of getting a full view of both Shepard and Miranda talking, we just get a close up of Miranda's backside. 

[Gwydden]

This is utterly shocking. When your job is to be a critic of a certain form of media, you should expect rapedeath threats and to have personal information hacked and posted everywhere? Seem's hard to believe that art/media critics of any sort would even exist in such an environment, yet they do, and are not subject to this kind of ridiculous abuse on anywhere near the same scale in film, television or literature for example.

When you're a public figure of any kind you can fully expect that. Politicians get harassed. Actors get harassed. Even writers, with much less visibility, get harassed. Critics, especially loud critics who favor criticism over praise, will get shafted too.

 

Most deal just fine.

The difference is, Thompson is an actual confirmed fringe loony, who tried to use false statements to destroy the credibility of litigants through the legal process, and was rightfully disbarred for it. Apparently, the Supreme Court of Florida "gave a rat's arse", and I'm sure if Anita tried the same, the result would be similar. Fortunately, all she really does is blog about her literary opinions of women in games, which people are free to disagree with if they think them uninformed, as long as it doesn't involve criminal activity.

So he does deserve to get harassed? And everyone agreed on this even before it turned out he was a criminal? As I said, fascinating.

 

No one "profits" from death threats and your tacit approval of them is exactly the reason why normal people tend to think of hardcore gamers as a bunch of Columbines and Sandy Hooks waiting to happen.

I'm not a hardcore gamer. In fact, I doubt I'd even self-describe as a 'gamer'.

 

And yes, people profit from controversy. Ask the developers of GTA. Sarkeesian's position relies on intellectual dishonesty and her damseling herself out so people will take pity on her. Not only she gets money thrown her way for doing pretty much nothing, she  gets to lump all criticism against her into straight white basement dwelling crazy hardcore gamers upset she's messing with her toys simply because the internet is insanely toxic.

 

But this thread is not about Sarkeesian, so that's all I'll say about it here.

[Pasquale1234]

Well, people mentioned Jacob and Thane. But if the discussion goes back Miranda because people accuse others of being SJW or Not want ing attractive people, it's Not their fault. If someone wants to discuss Miranda's outfit, I'll discuss it. If someone wants to discuss Jacob or Thane, I'll do. I'm not going to repeat everything every time, otherwise I should just copy and paste a post.

Miranda's outfit would not have bothered me nearly as much were it not for the buttcam (and occasional cameltoe cam). It's fairly easy to ignore some of the other outfits, but those camera shots pretty much made you look.

Oh look, another dialogue scene, starring: Miranda's ass. Dat ass got so much screentime, it became another character. If there were awards given for non-sapient objects with speaking parts, it would have swept them all.

I guess I ought to just be glad they haven't tried to design a game to appeal to foot fetishists.

[Gwydden]

The primary issue I have with the poster has more to do with weird anatomy and weak composition. But it looks like a speed painting, so whatever.

 

But really, the male is posed in a way that makes him look strong and competent. Even if you, or any particular lady might like the way he is designed and posed and find it attractive, the primary purpose of it was "doesn't this look like a cool character to play as?" While the female character looks to be posed in such a way that all I get from it is "hey, guys, look, it's a girl!" I personally would prefer they are depicted equally in that she also looks posed with strength and competence. That doesn't mean she can't also be attractive (I thought the "fix" posted earlier was pretty great).

 

EDIT: I should add that I really appreciate that they chose to put the female in the front, and give her the primary focus, but I do think it would have worked better with a stronger pose for her.

From where I'm standing both seem to be appealing to the same lowest common denominator, by which I mean people who are easily wooed. "Oh, he's got a gun, doesn't he look badass?" Err, not particularly? "Oh, look at that pose, doesn't she look sexy?" Again, not particularly, what are you looking at?

 

The guy's pose is too cliche for me to consider it anything other than cheesy.

[von uber]

What this thread has told me is that either age ratings on games need to be rigorously enforced, or a lot of people really need to grow up sharpish.

Femnazi. Seriously, grow the **** up.

[TRWisco]

I don't think anyone is complaining about their bodies. There is nothing wrong with some characters being designed to be attractive. It is only when that sex appeal seems gratuitous or gets an undue amount of attention that people start to have an issue with it. Examples of that would be Isabela not wearing pants, Samara's armor being unzipped to her naval, Miranda wearing a catsuit into battle, or the camera angles where instead of getting a full view of both Shepard and Miranda talking, we just get a close up of Miranda's backside. 

Armor for space would have been a good thing in this respect. but I think its already been covered. But something like the Destiny armors where It makes sense kind of and isn't some space magic breather thing. I can dig that.

 

On another side, I think it adds to the quirkyness of the game, the oh-so-well placed camera anles that is. Perhaps they were trying to show off her genetically enhanced body so that it really came across as being genetically enhanced. Or the way she pick up that radio in her loyalty mission. Its all for story right? haha

[RevilFox]

 

also are you new to the internet? everyone gets death threats I have gotten death threats 

This seems both insane and untrue. I've been on the internet for about twenty years now, and I've never once received a death threat. And I understand that you're (presumably) being hyperbolic, but even if what you're saying was  literally true, I still wouldn't be simply accepting of the fact that it happens to people new to the internet. Maybe my ideal of people not being dicks to each other means that I'll be disappointed in people more often than now, but it's honestly a pretty low bar. Maybe it just means that I should be disappointed with people. 

[RevilFox]

Miranda's outfit would not have bothered me nearly as much were it not for the buttcam (and occasional cameltoe cam). It's fairly easy to ignore some of the other outfits, but those camera shots pretty much made you look.

Oh look, another dialogue scene, starring: Miranda's ass. Dat ass got so much screentime, it became another character. If there were awards given for non-sapient objects with speaking parts, it would have swept them all.

I guess I ought to just be glad they haven't tried to design a game to appeal to foot fetishists.

 

This literally just occurred to me, but is it possible that the  Miranda ass shots were a short hand, cinematographic attempt to make it clear that she was trying to use her physical appearance to appeal to your character? 

 

(To be clear, I don't know that I even believe this, just something I thought of when reading this post.)

[Patchwork]

If only people could share their thoughts in civilized manner ^^;

 

 

Well the thing is that female PC is what female players are excepted to play as, although many myself included does play with both sexes. Female pose in the poster wasn't pose of woman I want to play as and so it bothered me. I'm bit worried it will translate to animation of female character and maybe even how other aspects of character are portrayed as well. I would have very much preferred her having pose similar to male character- pose of someone who is ready to shoot and fight, not one who seems more ready for ballet.

 

Assumption are made about a game (or most things really) based on how it's presented and going off that promo pic I would think that Mass Effect Andromeda will be full of dudebro, sexist garbage and I wouldn't buy it. It doesn't say this is the female protagonist you can play as- she's arm candy, probably a love interest.

 

I know that last bit isn't true but that's how that image reads to me.  

[Random]

Oh it does get worse than that believe me. lol!  My mother loves reading those type of books.  I swear 99% of the men have their shirts off with some sort of pronounced bulge going on.

 

And speaking of weird poses

Spoiler