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Bioware, please no overly sexualized characters!


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#1076
Pasquale1234

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I actually thought of a direct parallel to Miranda's buttcam that is equally annoying and a major reason a lot of people don't like Jacob.  The fact that femshep talks to him like a cat in heat even when she just met him.
 
This is another dumb gameplay decision that's mostly based on how sexy we are *supposed* to find character X or Y.  So this stupid stuff *isn't* just limited to female characters, but it's still annoying regardless.


Yep. My character tried to have some friendly dialogue with him the first time I played ME2. After seeing that, I get the armor upgrade info and ignore him the rest of the time.

#1077
Han Shot First

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*yawn*

The person who's been complaining about sexualized male characters receiving less discussion than sexualized female characters now applauds double standards.

No surprise, I don't suppose.

 

He is also choosing to ignore a previous post where I mentioned Thane and Jacob, and explained that while they had some of the same issues as Miranda or Samara, it was much more blatant with female characters because of the camera angles. While characters of both genders were sexualized in Mass Effect 2, it was done to a greater degree with the female characters.

 

He is completely wrong in arguing that there is no difference between the two.


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#1078
Majestic Jazz

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I'd just like for characters to have more than just a breathing mask and goggles when their moving around in vacuum.

 

This was a problem I had to in ME. It irked me to see that Shepard had on a full helmet in situations like the Collector Ship in ME3 and yet people like Jacob, Thane, Miranda, Samara, Jack etc just had those medical looking breathing mask. The only one with a helmet was Zaeed I believe. 

 

Of course I own my thread. I'm discussing how characters, both MALE and FEMALE, should wear proper gear in combat scenarios. High heels, tights, no armour, and exposed skin in both combat and outer space make no sense, regardless of gender.  Thane, Samara, Miranda, Jacob, Jack? All examples

 

You and others are making this out into some feminism crap. Cut the bull.

 

Sorry if I called you SJW earlier. When I first entered the thread I didn't read your OP, only the replies and from those it seemed like this discussion was about the portrayal of women because nearly all of the replies mentioned the female characters. Then when you called me out on calling you out as a person creating a SJW thread, I went back to read your OP and did indeed see that you did not want this to turn into a feminism debate and yet....it has to an extent.



#1079
Rannik

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Oh, please, if you can't see the relationship between feminism and sexualized body armor...

 

This is the relationship:

 

bWqcmem.gif

 

That so called "feminism" is just good old hypocrisy, nothing more.


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#1080
Panda

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Answer: Because 'strong and competent' aren't traits that are associated with women and sex appeal.

 

Not saying it's right

Not saying everyone thinks this way

Not saying this is how it should be

 

But if the purpose is to appeal sexually to the opposite sexes then both are most likely going to convey different messages.

 

However this brings quite big problem in the table.

 

With men it seems like who they want to be and what women considers attractive in them (according those traits) is same.

 

But with women it seems like who they want to be and what men considers attractive in them is different.

 

This is quite strech and doesn't apply to everyone of cource, but if this is what majority thinks it's problem.


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#1081
Crypticqa

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lol....

 

Again,it is a game mainly about space, soldiers and combat. No reason why both genders should be sexualized (apart from sex scenes). If you want awkward poses and sexy and what not, go to watch porn or whatever **** you consider sexy.

Would really Mass effect sell so bad without all of this crap?


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#1082
von uber

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Femshep's dialogue with Jacob is horrendous.
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#1083
maia0407

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bWqcmem.gif

 

Thank god my grandma does not really use the Internet, I'd hate to see her die of a heart attack after seeing that so called "feminism".

Thank god your grandma doesn't define feminism. :rolleyes:



#1084
Rannik

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Thank god your grandma doesn't define feminism. :rolleyes:

 

Indeed, it's sad to see a once important word become a joke though.

 

In the west anyway.


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#1085
Quarian Master Race

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When you're a public figure of any kind you can fully expect that. Politicians get harassed. Actors get harassed. Even writers, with much less visibility, get harassed. Critics, especially loud critics who favor criticism over praise, will get shafted too.

You're right, so all this is entirely normal for anyone who is a public figure, from the President down to a lowly video game critic? 
https://en.wikipedia...sian#Harassment

Funny, I took a few journalism classes to get my Masters, and none of them involved defending myself from threats of terrorism for literary criticism of goddamn Zelda. The sheer scale of it is completely abnormal given her profile, and you trying to dismiss it with "well you're a public figure" isn't really going to cut it. It's weird
 

So he does deserve to get harassed? And everyone agreed on this even before it turned out he was a criminal? As I said, fascinating.

When did I say anything like that? Jack Thompson deserved to be disbarred, no doubt, because he l did get outed accused of and charaged by the Florida Bar for all the ridiculous and baseless defamation he engaged in against specific individuals and entities via the legal system. Things like that tend to happen when you break the law and rules of your bar association or make a mockery of legal ethics. Can you cite examples of Anita doing similar?  If her work is soooooo much of a travesty to facts and truth, than you should be able to come up with some evidence for her being charged with slander or libel, no? I'd be fine with criticizing her for that.

Creating false equivalences by comparing a critic you don't like the opinions of to an actual criminal whom tried to ruin the lives of others with false accusations of them doing things like engaging in child pornography isn't helping your case.

 

I'm not a hardcore gamer. In fact, I doubt I'd even self-describe as a 'gamer'.

 

And yes, people profit from controversy. Ask the developers of GTA. Sarkeesian's position relies on intellectual dishonesty and her damseling herself out so people will take pity on her. Not only she gets money thrown her way for doing pretty much nothing, she  gets to lump all criticism against her into straight white basement dwelling crazy hardcore gamers upset she's messing with her toys simply because the internet is insanely toxic.

 

you're on a video game forum.

Classic tinfoil hat, victim blaming conspiracy theory that doesn't even merit a response. 


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#1086
Awkward Octopus

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Answer: Because 'strong and competent' aren't traits that are associated with women and sex appeal.

 

Not saying it's right

Not saying everyone thinks this way

Not saying this is how it should be

 

But if the purpose is to appeal sexually to the opposite sexes then both are most likely going to convey different messages.

 

And this is what we call double standard. You wrote yourself that you aren't saying that's right, etc. Sweet, we agree. Ok, so, what? Am I supposed to sit and wait for things to change? Why else would I want to discuss it if not to suggest I want it to be different? Pretty sure that was my point. Things don't change unless we, you know, change them.

 

Secondly, the poster. I think we might be talking past each other. But I'm pretty sure the goal of that poster was not primarily supposed to be about sexual appeal. If we're talking about a romance sequence, then sure, characters will likely be depicted differently to appeal to whoever their target audience is. But this poster is supposed to be our first look and the design and style of the game, and suggest a representation who I might play as, of who I want to be, not who I want to find attractive. And therefore I didn't think it was appropriate to neglect the "powerful and competent" aspect from half of it (sexual appeal aside).

 

EDIT: Panda, I think you said it better than I did.


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#1087
maia0407

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Indeed, it's sad to see a once important word become a joke though.

 

In the west anyway.

I really don't know what to say to you. You're not making any arguments; just talking about your grandma, hypocrisy, etc but you're not stating what you have a problem with. I can only conclude that you don't really have anything of substance to say because you don't know what you are talking about.



#1088
Rannik

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If you want awkward poses and sexy and what not, go to watch porn or whatever **** you consider sexy.

 

Would really Mass effect sell so bad without all of this crap?

 

I'd rather just have both, since there's no downside to it.

 

The actual question is: Would really Mass Effect sell better without all of "this crap"?



#1089
OhNoWhyHow

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The actual question is: Would really Mass Effect sell better without all of "this crap"?

 

DAI deleted 90% of it and that game sold like hotcakes.  It might not sell *better* but lack of desire demons or whatever certainly didn't make it sell worse.


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#1090
maia0407

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DAI deleted 90% of it and that game sold like hotcakes.

Yep, Game of the Year anyone?



#1091
FKA_Servo

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Yep, Game of the Year anyone?

 

It was mine, but honestly, this topic is probably going to elicit a similar response to the current one.



#1092
OhNoWhyHow

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My point was just that people can't make wild extrapolations about "but Bioware *needs* catsuit armor to sell games" which is the underlying subtext here.

 

*Edit* I actually think people are *way* overthinking that silly poster.



#1093
maia0407

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My point was just that people can't make wild extrapolations about "but Bioware *needs* catsuit armor to sell games" which is the underlying subtext here.

 

*Edit* I actually think people are *way* overthinking that silly poster.

I agree with you! DAI seems to have sold well without all of that nonsense.



#1094
Panda

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*Edit* I actually think people are *way* overthinking that silly poster.

 

Possibly. However that and the trailer is only things we have right now. So no wonder people are going to rip them into pieces and analyze everything.



#1095
DaemionMoadrin

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Sounds good to me. But you know what else sounds good to me? Flashy comic book armor. Know why? Because it's just an aesthetic choice. People can call 'realism' all they like. I really don't buy it. Maybe the day Bioware DOES jump into the realism wagon I'll take them more seriously. But I get it; who doesn't like a chance to push their political agenda? I've been guilty of it a couple times. Hell, that's what I'm doing right now. I think a creator's artistic choices trump everything else, even 'realism', and I'll defend that to my last breath.

 

Well, that's up to you.

 

I do not have any political agenda, to be honest many of the political issues discussed here are kind of USA-centric and don't really apply to the rest of the world. In fact, your politics and the media surrounding it are a clown show and are only taken seriously if they affect international relations.

Yeah, SJWs are international but you'll find less of them in countries that provide equal opportunities, have more social awareness and are simply more open and progressive. You know, the kind of country your politicians call "socialist" or "communist" in their rhetoric.

 

I love women. Especially sexy ones. And while I am crushing a little on Aria, that's because of her personality and attitude and not because of her tight outfit which consists mainly of straps. As realistic as graphics may have become, it's still just pixels to me. I care more about the artistic message conveyed through it, I don't need to see exposed skin or a camera that will focus on boobs or butts.

 

I advocate more realism because by the end of ME3, the franchise had become silly, inconsistent and nonsensical. Doesn't mean it was a bad game or no fun to play, it's just that some of us would prefer a little more science in our science fiction. It's an opinion like every other, you do not have to share it. But please be aware of where I am coming from (literally and figuratively) and don't try to accuse me of motives that do not apply to me in the least.

 

If BioWare decides that they will continue with their artistic/aesthetic choice, so be it. I'm not going to become upset about it. I don't even think that my preference for something else is enough to turn me away from the game. It might contribute to me not buying it but that depends a lot more on other factors. 

 

Let's assume BioWare changed ME2 to conform with my wishes. Do you know what the difference would be? While on board the Normandy or Citadel nothing would change. Miranda would still wear her catsuit, the camera would still undress her with its eyes and Jack wouldn't even wear that belt around her boobs. Cause that just looks uncomfortable. Free the boobies!

 

The actual difference would only be seen on missions. If Shepard puts on their armor, so does the rest of the team. And they'd wear actual armor, full coverage and a closed helmet. It could still be sexy, like the Asari Commando pictured earlier in this thread. I just do not want to see exposed skin or any exposed body part in space or on planets with a toxic atmosphere or extreme temperatures or in hazardous environments. Remember the rogue VI on Luna who later became EDI? It pumped toxic gas into the server rooms to deter Shepard from shutting it down. Luckily that was in ME1, so everyone was wearing a helmet.

 

Exploring new planets without any kind of protective gear is stupid. Going into combat wearing revealing, skin tight outfits is stupid. Yes, it might look awesome if a sexy woman kicks ass, I get it. I think it's pretty awesome myself. In my opinion you can create armor that still looks sexy, feminine or whatever you want without exposing the wearer to the elements.

 

There are some who argue that the characters in the game have shields, so armor isn't important. Sure, shields help a lot against bullets and other kinetic attacks. They do nothing against temperatures, gases, radiation (which is a real thing in space) or decompression (again, space is a vacuum). Not to mention that you need a shield generator for it. Where exactly on Miranda's outfit would the generator be? Hidden in a buttplug? If she carried as much as a credit card, it would be outlined through her suit.

And please don't say biotics, that's a whole other can of worms. If you are interested in a scientific analysis of biotics and other Mass Effect technologies, then there are better threads for that. Let's just say it has been handled very inconsistently and move on.

 

So if BioWare continues with their artistic vision from previous games, then I won't be happy but I'll accept it. It would make the games a little less fun for me but probably not break anything that hasn't been broken years ago. It's just my opinion that the sexualisation of Mass Effect has gone too far and that cutting back would be the better choice. I may be right, I may be wrong, in the end it's not my decision. All I can do is speak out for my wishes and I've done that a couple of times already. At this point I'm only repeating myself to clear up misunderstandings.

 

The political stuff? I don't give a ****. I'm surrounded by women who will speak up on their own if they dislike something, they certaintly don't need me to get offended on their behalf. That would be patronizing. But I do have an opinion on my own and I will voice it when appropriate, no matter if it aligns with some political view or not. I can't do anything about coincidences.


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#1096
Rannik

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You're not making any arguments; just talking about your grandma, hypocrisy, etc but you're not stating what you have a problem with.

 

I have a problem with hypocritical people, I find them intellectually disgusting.

 

For example people who use a concept that is supposed to empower women to instead oppress them and dictate what they can and can't be.



#1097
The Elder King

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Oh, please, if you can't see the relationship between feminism and sexualized body armor, I don't really know what to say to you. Sorry, but you don't own the thread once it's out there in the wilds.


Why Are you quoting My post?

#1098
maia0407

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I have a problem with hypocritical people, I find them intellectually disgusting.

 

For example people who use a word that is supposed to empower women to instead oppress them and dictate what they can and can't be.

Okay, making some progress. Now, please explain to me how I'm advocating the oppression of women by stating that the broad topic of feminism has something to say about sexualized body armor?



#1099
Awkward Octopus

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My point was just that people can't make wild extrapolations about "but Bioware *needs* catsuit armor to sell games" which is the underlying subtext here.

 

*Edit* I actually think people are *way* overthinking that silly poster.

 

Haha! You're right. In my defense, I'm literally a teacher at an art college. I have an MFA in Design. It's my job to overthink these things, and make my students overthink them as well. :)

 

EDIT: And it is an important discussion, the poster is just a way into it.


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#1100
maia0407

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Why Are you quoting My post?

 I didn't mean to quote you. Sorry, my mistake. Post has been edited to remove your quote.