3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Awkward Octopus]

Meh. It's a case of poor color choice and unfortunate texture placement.

[Hazegurl]

No, but people were blatantly saying that "most people don't find competent and strong sexually appealing in women."  Am I to infer from that that weak and incompetent *is* sexually appealing?  A better question is "why is strength and competence an antonym of femininity?"

Perhaps you should answer that since 'weakness and incompetency' seems to be the first traits you reached for simply because the woman is portrayed differently.

[von uber]

Meh. It's a case of poor color choice and unfortunate texture placement.

 

I agree, but it just seems like you have wondered into some weird brothel. Especially with the woman sitting with her legs apart like that.

 

Try playing Arrival again, it puts a whole new spin on it

 

Either way, someone at Bioware approved of this.

[OhNoWhyHow]

To be completely fair to the person who said that, I think he was actually saying that being competent and strong are specifically what attracts men to women, not that men aren't attracted to competent and strong women. 

 

Which is still wrong, but not as horrifying as it sounds when you say it the other way.

 

And to clarify, I wasn't actually trying to put words in the guy's mouth.  I was more pointing out that trying to objectively describe the dude in that poster as "strong and competent" and negatively contrasting him with the woman and extrapolating they were both designed principally for sex appeal ends up going down logical rabbit holes.

[OhNoWhyHow]

Perhaps you should answer that since 'weakness and incompetency' seems to be the first traits you reached for simply because the woman is portrayed differently.

 

See my above post.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Perhaps we shouldn't equal physical strength with being strong, mh?

[Altair_ShepardN7]

I agree, but it just seems like you have wondered into some weird brothel. Especially with the woman sitting with her legs apart like that.

 

Try playing Arrival again, it puts a whole new spin on it

 

Either way, someone at Bioware approved of this.

Do you think the Reapers made them put it on because they... like them and find it hot? 

[von uber]

Do you think the Reapers made them put it on because they... like them and find it hot? 

 

Assuming.. Direct Control..

[FKA_Servo]

Do you think the Reapers made them put it on because they... like them and find it hot? 

 

Assuming.. Direct Control..

 

The thread got fun again! Let's keep it going.

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Assuming.. Direct Control..

I just... pictured that. 

 

[Hazegurl]

See my above post.

I did. And I brought up the fact that you are the one who seemed to have reached for 'weakness and incompetency' first.  If you didn't and someone else did, I apologize.

 

If you are implying I did, then you are wrong.

 

My quote: "Because 'strong and competent' aren't traits that are associated with women and sex appeal."

 

I'm speaking about sexual appeal and physical appearances, not the actual traits of the individual.  But simply what men and women see as sexually appealing.  Women find strong looking, capable men attractive. Men who look like they 'get things done'.  A lot men seem to find softness, curviness, nurturing et al sexually appealing.  These are simply different descriptors of attractiveness. It does not mean that women are weak, incapable, and don't get things done.  Your confusing the direct opposite of "strong" and "competent" as a definition of what men find attractive about women. Whereas men(most/some/whatever) just have a completely different description altogether.

[OhNoWhyHow]

I did. And I brought up the fact that you are the one who seemed to have reached for 'weakness and incompetency' first.  If you didn't and someone else did, I apologize.

 

If you are implying I did, then you are wrong.

 

My quote: "Because 'strong and competent' aren't traits that are associated with women and sex appeal."

 

I'm speaking about sexual appeal and physical appearances, not the actual traits of the individual.  But simply what men and women see as sexually appealing.  Women find strong looking, capable men attractive. Men who look like they 'get things done'.  A lot men seem to find softness, curviness, nurturing et al sexually appealing.  These are simply different descriptors of attractiveness. It does not mean that women are weak, incapable, and don't get things done.  Your confusing the direct opposite of "strong" and "competent" as a definition of what men find attractive about women. Whereas men(most/some/whatever) just have a completely different description altogether.

 

How does competence even qualify as "sexual appeal and physical appearances?"  It's explicitly a character trait.  And moreover it's a character trait that's impossible to even deduce from that poster about that dude.  It's a wild extrapolation and it leads to the logical quagmire I was just pointing out:

 

If dude's pose = competent and woman doesn't look like dude, she must be something else besides competent.  What else? Incompetent?

 

I'm not placing any character traits on anybody in that poster.  I don't think that dude looks "competent" or otherwise.  He just looks like some dude wearing armor. 

[Awkward Octopus]

Ok, to be fair, it was my criticism of the poster that brought up the whole "strength and competence" argument (it really wasn't meant as an argument, just an observation).

 

I was trying to describe why I felt that the man's pose conveyed that impression better than the woman's pose. I wasn't trying to argue that the woman was incompetent or whatever, just that her pose doesn't give me that as my first impression, and that I would rather it was in better balance (given that the purpose of the poster is to introduce us to the PCs that we can potentially play as).

 

As a designer, you have to rely on visual cues, and you want people to be able to make a snap judgement at a glance. She could be drawn in a way that depicts her as "strong and competent" as well as "curvy and feminine" without making her stand in an anatomically awkward pose. I never said that those things are mutually exclusive.

[Hazegurl]

How does competence even qualify as "sexual appeal and physical appearances?"  It's explicitly a character trait.  And moreover it's a character trait that's impossible to even deduce from that poster about that dude.  It's a wild extrapolation and it leads to the logical quagmire I was just pointing out:

 

If dude's pose = competent and woman doesn't look like dude, she must be something else besides competent.  What else? Incompetent?

 

I'm not placing any character traits on anybody in that poster.  I don't think that dude looks "competent" or otherwise.  He just looks like some dude wearing armor. 

A person who looks confident. The way a person carries themselves.  There's really not much else to describe it.  Unless someone got a better description. 

 

As for the rest of your argument. All I have to say on it is read my post again if you want to. You can't get over that it's a totally different appeal not the polar opposite.

 

Man: I like sleek cars

Woman: I like cute purses

 

One thing has nothing at all to do with the other.

 

And that's all I gotta say about it. I'm not invested enough to fight over it.

 

It doesn't mean I won't peek in and post a gif or meme though.

 

[maia0407]

Ok, to be fair, it was my criticism of the poster that brought up the whole "strength and competence" argument (it really wasn't meant as an argument, just an observation).

 

I was trying to describe why I felt that the man's pose conveyed that impression better than the woman's pose. I wasn't trying to argue that the woman was incompetent or whatever, just that her pose doesn't give me that as my first impression, and that I would rather it was in better balance (given that the purpose of the poster is to introduce us to the PCs that we can potentially play as).

 

As a designer, you have to rely on visual cues, and you want people to be able to make a snap judgement at a glance. She could be drawn in a way that depicts her as "strong and competent" as well as "curvy and feminine" without making her stand in an anatomically awkward pose. I never said that those things are mutually exclusive.

The poster could be better. I don't like how her hip is cocked and I'm not sure what she is doing with her arm. Still, it could be worse. Faint praise, eh?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The poster could be better. I don't like how her hip is cocked and I'm not sure what she is doing with her arm. Still, it could be worse. Faint praise, eh?

She is holding it up while she looks at a projection. 

[Awkward Octopus]

The poster could be better. I don't like how her hip is cocked and I'm not sure what she is doing with her arm. Still, it could be worse. Faint praise, eh?

 

I said before that I actually really like the artist's technique, the brush style and color choices in particular, but I'm less fond of the woman's pose, and I feel it throws the composition balance off. So. Meh. This kind of already got talked to death pages ago.

[karushna5]

The only characters in the "main cast" that I found too sexualized were Miranda, Jacob, and Samara

 

Miranda/Jacob can make sense in some way (but hey if we aren't in a romance please don't show Shepard as super attracted to that character unless you know external forces)

 

But Samara the chaste Justicar that is plagued by the fact that her children are Ardat Yakshi and never wants to reproduce again?

Makes no sense, plot or character wise and seems like flagrant meaningless sexualization that takes away from the story rather than enhance it.

[Altair_ShepardN7]

The poster could be better. I don't like how her hip is cocked and I'm not sure what she is doing with her arm. Still, it could be worse. Faint praise, eh?

Ah, if the world simply went around according to what we liked or not... 

[maia0407]

Ah, if the world simply went around according to what we liked or not... 

Ah, if only you had a point to make. tsk, tsk, bait attempt fail.

 

I don't like her cocked hip because it unnecessarily sexualizes her.

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Ah, if only you had a point to make. tsk, tsk, bait attempt fail.

 

I don't like her cocked hip because it unnecessarily sexualizes her.

And I don't like your comment, delete it or change it. 

[Han Shot First]

 

But Samara the chaste Justicar that is plagued by the fact that her children are Ardat Yakshi and never wants to reproduce again?

Makes no sense, plot or character wise and seems like flagrant meaningless sexualization that takes away from the story rather than enhance it.

 

I didn't have a problem with Samara's design other than not having an optional helmet and the armor being unzipped nearly down to her navel. I think if she had less exposed skin her design would have been fine. There is no reason why she couldn't be both chaste and sexy.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I don't see either character in the poster as sexualized. 

[maia0407]

And I don't like your comment, delete it or change it. 

ha, ha! No!

 

Here's what makes me really happy, though; at the end of the day, Bioware is listening to feminist criticism and changing their games to make them more friendly to women and minorities. In fact, it's having an effect on the entire industry. Game developers are talking about this stuff and E3 showed that more games are being made that are friendly to women. I'm finding more and more games that I want to play. So, yeah, adding my voice and my dollars to the multitudes that feel the way I do has an effect. So, you guys can cry and whine all you like but we're winning!