3626 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Let me repeat:  No one is saying that they don't represent women, or that they don't write good female characters.  What many of us are saying is that we don't want Butt-Cam shots; we don't want catsuits out of combat; and we don't want the romance arcs to cause the friendship arcs to crash to a halt (Jack.)

 

Why are people acting like not wanting the stupid ridiculousness of the camera angles or the verisimilitude crushing aspect of catsuits in combat is some major issue of "SJWs" and not, y'know, a (reasonable) opinion?

[OhNoWhyHow]

Borne out by this:

 

 

If you take it that a female inqusitor is, on average, more liekly to be chosen by a female.

 

Either that, or PC players are more open minded about playing as the opposite gender

 

Incidentally, that poster also has a badass pose for the female PC that I can get behind.

[AresKeith]

Why are people acting like not wanting the stupid ridiculousness of the camera angles or the verisimilitude crushing aspect of catsuits in combat is some major issue of "SJWs" and not, y'know, a (reasonable) opinion?

 

Because if you don't like that stuff then you must hate attractive women, duh!

[Former_Fiend]

It's Bioware...

 

Completely unrelated to anything else in this thread; I love the Immortan Joe avatar.

[In Exile]

Because if you don't like that stuff then you must hate attractive women, duh!

 

From now on my counter to the butt-cam will be a "foot-cam". Time to get real with the fantasies, Bioware. 

[PrayingMantis]

Why are people acting like not wanting the stupid ridiculousness of the camera angles or the verisimilitude crushing aspect of catsuits in combat is some major issue of "SJWs" and not, y'know, a (reasonable) opinion?

 

The SJW-argument has become the favourite excuse for butthurt people to justify their creepy-as-fu** lust after a bunch of pixels, while vilifying totally reasonable criticism at the same time, thats's why.

[dreamgazer]

From now on my counter to the butt-cam will be a "foot-cam". Time to get real with the fantasies, Bioware.

 

We're going to an entirely new galaxy with who-knows-what kinds of aliens, and Fornax was a thing in Mass Effect.

 

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[kmcd5722]

Completely, 100% behind the OP.  Watching Ashley get a total make-over for literally no reason other than using sexual appeal to sell more games was a bit of a slap in the face to her character.

 

And Miranda's high heels are also just complete tactical nonsense.  Her figure fit her character (i.e. biologically engineered for father's definition of perfection), but running around on high heels in the middle of combat is entirely laughable.  And no, I do not think any amount of biological engineering would make high heels a better tactical choice than boots (hell, even PF Flyers would have been better).

 

Samara's armor with the insanely plunging v-line was usually written off as "oh, she's a biotic, so she's protected by her biotic barrier" is a silly reason.  As soon as that barrier goes down, blam, one faster-than-light piece of shrapnel right in the v-line is an instant killer.

 

And the list goes on and on... 

 

Making the universe believable in ME1 is what made the Mass Effect so captivating.  The over sexualization made the universe less believable, and therefore less engrossing as a story.  

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Because if you don't like that stuff then you must hate attractive women, duh!

"Attractive" is subjective, what some people find attractive others don't. In my school there was a guy that was driven mad by fat woman (and he was very skinny  ), a girl that liked men who where shorter than her, and so on. Personally I don't really think that a practical combat armor makes a woman less attractive.

 

Tali is a great example, you never see her outside her suit yet she had a huge fanbase and after Liara she was the most popular romance irrc. 

 

From now on my counter to the butt-cam will be a "foot-cam". Time to get real with the fantasies, Bioware. 

I wonder how long until Bioware starts pandering (not sure if that's the correct word) to all kinds of fetishes? 

[daveliam]

Incidentally, that poster also has a badass pose for the female PC that I can get behind.

But if she's not contorted into an exaggerated pose with an arched back, how will you ever know that she's a woman?

[Sylvius the Mad]

That only 18% of players played as femshep in spite of increased marketing featuring her disproves that notion

It hardly unbiased data.

First, the earlier games didn't have that equal promotion, so a skewed majority of imported Shepards would have been male.

Second, regardless of promotion, the default value in character creation was male.

To get an unbiased sample, we'd need to see equal promotion in a new game without a character import, and have the default gender of the protagonist during character creation be randomised.

[Sylvius the Mad]

From now on my counter to the butt-cam will be a "foot-cam". Time to get real with the fantasies, Bioware.

Let's be inclusive. Rule 34-cam.

[FKA_Servo]

Let's be inclusive. Rule 34-cam.

 

I think "Fornax" has that covered.

[MattFini]

Sexualize ALL the characters. 

 

Every. Last. One.

[In Exile]

Completely, 100% behind the OP.  Watching Ashley get a total make-over for literally no reason other than using sexual appeal to sell more games was a bit of a slap in the face to her character.

 

And Miranda's high heels are also just complete tactical nonsense.  Her figure fit her character (i.e. biologically engineered for father's definition of perfection), but running around on high heels in the middle of combat is entirely laughable.  And no, I do not think any amount of biological engineering would make high heels a better tactical choice than boots (hell, even PF Flyers would have been better).

 

Samara's armor with the insanely plunging v-line was usually written off as "oh, she's a biotic, so she's protected by her biotic barrier" is a silly reason.  As soon as that barrier goes down, blam, one faster-than-light piece of shrapnel right in the v-line is an instant killer.

 

And the list goes on and on... 

 

Making the universe believable in ME1 is what made the Mass Effect so captivating.  The over sexualization made the universe less believable, and therefore less engrossing as a story.  

 

For charity - as a man - I wore heels one time. These are shoes actively designed by people who hate feet. Yes, they do great things for you legs appearance-wise. But Jesus - as shoes they express a hatred for the human foot that is unreal. I cannot take any action sequence seriously in heels. 

[In Exile]

It hardly unbiased data.

First, the earlier games didn't have that equal promotion, so a skewed majority of imported Shepards would have been male.

Second, regardless of promotion, the default value in character creation was male.

To get an unbiased sample, we'd need to see equal promotion in a new game without a character import, and have the default gender of the protagonist during character creation be randomised.

 

DA:I went in that direction in part (the choice was randomized) but there was still a default protagonist gender for marketing. 

[Quarian Master Race]

That still doesn't tell you anything. At least half of my characters are female.

Indeed, and around half of mine male so I don't think the numbers can really be used to draw any accurate conclusions on the playerbase.

[OhNoWhyHow]

But if she's not contorted into an exaggerated pose with an arched back, how will you ever know that she's a woman?

 

You're right.  I guess we will have to install a cleavage window in her armor. 

 

In all seriousness, though, this raises an interesting question for me.  If an explicit point of marketing both PCs is to advertise that you can play as both male and female, it sort of does become important to differentiate the female at least enough that players realize "oh, I can also play as a woman!" Most people unfortunately when confronted with a gender neutral human in full body armor will just assume it's male.  In that particular poster, it seems like just removing the helmet for both would be sufficient.  

[Felya87]

For charity - as a man - I wore heels one time. These are shoes actively designed by people who hate feet. Yes, they do great things for you legs appearance-wise. But Jesus - as shoes they express a hatred for the human foot that is unreal. I cannot take any action sequence seriously in heels. 

 

I know there are girls that can run on hells. But truth is: hells tend to getting stuck in any kind of terrain that isn't asphalt or tiles. Just one little rock can make lose balance. In an eviromant where one run, jump, climb up ladders, is definitely a stupid idea wearing those. (ans I speak as a girl who ended up stuck with her hells in the grass more than one time.)

So hells higther then three centimeters would be better out of combat. At least to not make some persons (like me) feel their feet hurt just for emphaty.

[Exile Isan]

I think the thing that bothers me the most about the characters from ME2/ME3 is that they don't wear helmets in vacuum. I could deal with Miranda and Jacob's catsuits (even though I think they're silly in combat situations) if they would have put on a helmet when on toxic planets/planets that have no atmosphere. Because nothing is immersion breaking like landing on a planet like Tarith and having Miranda tell Shepard (who is in full combat armor, airtight helmet included) to be careful because the atmosphere is toxic, yet her eyeballs and all the skin on her face is exposed to it. Who should be careful now? This is why I only take Garrus and Tali to that planet now.

 

This also applies to others as well. I mean Zaeed, Thane, and Grunt all get helmets but portions of their skin is still exposed to vacuum (Thane's chest, Grunt and Zaeed's arms). There really is no reason why Miranda, and especially Jacob, Mordin and Liara couldn't have helmets. They have no other exposed skin to make it look silly (unlike Thane, Zaeed and Grunt do). I mean Liara even has full out armor in ME3 and even her default outfit looks armored so I still don't understand why she doesn't have a helmet other than "We have to see her face at all times!!!" I'm not even going to touch Jack and Samara, they are two of my favorite characters but what they wear into combat is ridiculous, especially Jack. I kinda give Thane a pass in the no armor department because if you read his Shadowbroker dossier his preferred kill method is to just snipe people from a distance. Same goes with Kasumi because she prefers to not be seen at all when cracking safes, etc.  

 

So yes by all means let Jack run around naked on the ship in her off duty, let Miranda, Jacob, Kasumi slink around in their catsuits. Let Thane lounge around in his leather jacket, and Samara slip on some heels to look sexy, but when they go into combat the armor should go on and in vacuum so should the helmets.

 

On a side note if they were trying to make Miranda a "femme fatale" they failed miserably. She is not even close to what a femme fatale is supposed to be. http://www.merriam-w...ry/femme fatale Morinth is closer to being a femme fatale character.

 

Miranda does fit the Ice Queen character though.

[karushna5]

So older women should dress accordingly? And whats code of honor and job got to do with how you dress? Isn't that like being so judgemental? This reminded me of a mother who withdraw her son from the open water course I assisted in, just because I prefer the thinnest shortest suit being on a tropical water and all that. It didn't even matter to her that I was the most qualified divemaster in the shop. And that really hurt because I can only guess what she thought of me.

Im so sorry that "sex" is the only point Samara came across for you because of what she wears. First thing I saw of Samara was how regal she looked.

 

How people are and how characters are portrayed are very different things. The truth of it is, that good character design means getting personalities and ideas of the character through design. When some things about the design clash with certain aspects of a character, then that is bad design. A chaste character who is haunted by her children and wishes to never produce more having her zipper down to the naval is bad character design because it isn't her.

 

its like a character who lives in a Tundra having a chainmail bakini, its not about offensive, its about bad design. You want a character that gets the most across as possible. Its why Grunt has a smoother face to show he is young, its why Miranda suit is how it is, and why Jack has her strip of bra and a shaved head and tattoos. Its why Thane has a Trench coat. Its why Tali has a cool design on her suit. How a character is designed/looks has huge things on how you portray it. Its why people got annoyed that other than Morrigan, no one had a coherant look in Da:O, and why the outfit changed styles depending on character in DA:I.

 

In honesty if all these characters actually were designed to be like real people, they would look pretty regular and some ugly, wouldn't have a gimmick and be pretty boring. Everything about how every character is designed has a purpose OR is how the artist is used to drawing, often without thinking if there are clashes present. Of course dress says nothing about real people other than style, but in fake people there is little to say about them and it needs to all add up to inform you about them. True, Cullen could wear a thong and a linen shirt every time he was off duty, but that doesn't add to his character or design, or inform you anything about him.

 

Something I don't understand, is why does everything have to be sexy? I keep hearing that why cant they be tough and sexy, chaste and sexy, cute and sexy, pretty and sexy, but they already are. They already are designed to be good looking and I am not arguing aggainst that, they are already good looking. If the answer is why can't they be maximum sexy every single time, then why bother with character design? Your comment frustrates me because conflating real people and characters in character design is an issue, because every person gets to do what they want and should be respected and left unjudged unless they are harming another person.

 

Why not make every female character have gigantic boobs with unzipped outfits? Or heck, why not make every male character be crazy for Justin Beiber and collect boy band posters from all decades and be really into that? I would respect a normal person for that, he isn't harming anyone. Why are people upset about unfair romances, I respect that every person has a sexuality, its not like a game designer designed them to be consumed by people or anything? The same reason why Samara isn't, say wearing braces on her teeth, (nothing wrong with braces, why can't she have braces, I had braces?) or have a hideous face (Nothing wrong with ugly people, I don't exactly have a nice face) is why her design is bad. She shouldn't have braces, she shouldn't be ugly, and she shouldn't have a suit that goes to her belly button. None of these are bad in and of themselves, especially in real people, but in character design they can be terrible flaws with the wrong character.

[Boobasaurus]

I never really understood the heels, but I don't mind a little 'sexiness' as long as it doesn't look impractical.

 

For example, I love curve fitting armors that aren't super bulky, but still offer decent protection (see below).

 

[PhroXenGold]

Yeah, that's a pretty good outfit - probably doesn't need to emphasise her butt cheeks quite so much, but overall it shows of her body shape very well, while still offering a sensible level of covering for someone going into combat, as well as a degree of protection. To be honest, apart from obviously being more detailed and better rendered, it's not that different from ME1's light armours, which is a good thing.

[FKA_Servo]

I thought the modular N7 armor available to Shep in ME2 and 3 - all of it - was phenomenal.

 

It looked so great.

[Sartoz]

From now on my counter to the butt-cam will be a "foot-cam". Time to get real with the fantasies, Bioware. 

 

                                                                                        <<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>

 

Then it would not be a fantasy game. LOL!