Clear smooth skin, pretty eyes, and silky hair are probably 'useless' in determining the quality of a mate's genes and the health of their hypothetical child in the age of modern medicine.
They still matter.
Actually, they're good indicators of a potential mate's health. If there are no visible defects, chances are high that you're good to go.
I'd argue that it isn't so much that men and women tend to sexualize people and characters differently, as it is that men in media geared towards women tends to involve them being sexualized less. This has a lot to do with conventions of perception that suggest that women are less sexual than men in the first place.
Which isn't necessarily true, but the expectations of a society and the practices of it tend to be cyclical. i.e. Floral print appears in magazines, women wear floral print and it catches on, then appears more in media, and more women wear floral print.
Men can be sexualized by women in just the same way women can be. There are certain all male bands, and individual performers, with female fanbases that will talk endlessly about these celebrities in a very sexual context.
In mainstream media, it's just not as expected that they do so. Women are expected to romanticize, not sexualize.
There IS a huge "damned if you do, damned if you don't " vibe about the topic of sexualized characters in general for men, because basically every. single. character (almost) can always be turned into a "male power fantasy" to end an argument.
Anyway,
another thing to keep in mind is that men and women are quite bad at actually at knowing what the other gender find attractive. The joke in Big Bang Theory where Sheldon assumes the "sexiest man of the year" is either Sir Patrick Stewart or William Shatner is not completely off.
I have had a lot of arguments with women arguing that for example Liz Hurley (back when she was REALLY famous) was if not ugly at least very plain, and it was ridiculous that any straight male could find someone like her sexy. This is just an example among many.
At the same time I have found a lot of the men I assume are attractive to women don't ring any kind of bell, so to speak.
As for muscles, we had this argument on another forum when ME3 came out. Shepard is not THAT skinny. Again, compared to the average modern IRL female soldier, her arms are about average. The overly muscular men (not only Vega, who has his own character model) are less realistic, actually.
We should also keep in mind that looks aren't everything. Having a great body is not enough or doesn't count for all that much in the end.
There is personality, humour, style, intelligence and lots of other factors, most of which count for more than pure looks. The people who appear on magazine covers represent maybe 1% of the population, the rest simply doesn't look that way.
I'd rather be with an average looking girl with a great personality than with a vapid model with perfect breasts.
If you look at a character in a game (male or female) and take away their looks, what's left of them? Are they still a fully realized character? If they are not, then they probably were sexualized.
In mainstream media, it's just not as expected that they do so. Women are expected to romanticize, not sexualize.
I think this is a pretty great way of putting it. Women tend to be sexualized, men tend to be romanticized.
Ah, but my point was the ME type of characters, which seems to fall right into that group women idealizes.
As for the second part... My point there was more a rant towards certain arguments that have popped up in this industry over the last 5 years or so.
I don't have an issue with the way the women in ME's personalities or physical attributes are designed. But when they are dressed in a way that doesn't match the context of the situation, or the posing and camera angles are super male gazey, it doesn't exactly make me think they were designed to appeal to me. Some of them are subject to that more than others, certainly.
We should also keep in mind that looks aren't everything. Having a great body is not enough or doesn't count for all that much in the end.
There is personality, humour, style, intelligence and lots of other factors, most of which count for more than pure looks. The people who appear on magazine covers represent maybe 1% of the population, the rest simply doesn't look that way.
I'd rather be with an average looking girl with a great personality than with a vapid model with perfect breasts.
If you look at a character in a game (male or female) and take away their looks, what's left of them? Are they still a fully realized character? If they are not, then they probably were sexualized.
the people in magazines don't look like the people in magazines
the people in magazines don't look like the people in magazines
I know, I pointed that out a few posts ago and a few of them do. Back to topic please. ^^
We should also keep in mind that looks aren't everything. Having a great body is not enough or doesn't count for all that much in the end.
There is personality, humour, style, intelligence and lots of other factors, most of which count for more than pure looks. The people who appear on magazine covers represent maybe 1% of the population, the rest simply doesn't look that way.
I'd rather be with an average looking girl with a great personality than with a vapid model with perfect breasts.
If you look at a character in a game (male or female) and take away their looks, what's left of them? Are they still a fully realized character? If they are not, then they were probably sexualized.
Looks tell a lot about a persons personality though. What does obesity tell about someone? That he or shes is carrying around too much body fat and thus looks ugly?
Not just that, it makes me suspect that said person probably lacks willpower, has a boring lifestyle, is not interested in trying to live healthily or suffers from depression or other mental problems. Those are not character traits I find attractive in a potential partner.
Jessica Ennis.
Or Kelly Holmes.
And to add, I mean these:
Current Olympic heptathlon champion
800m and 1500m Gold medallist (2004)
I think that is a good example of a very athletic shape.
Looks tell a lot about a persons personality though. What does obesity tell about someone? That he or shes is carrying around too much body fat and thus looks ugly?
Not just that, it makes me suspect that said person probably lacks willpower, has a boring lifestyle, is not interested in trying to live healthily or suffers from depression or other mental problems. Those are not character traits I find attractive in a potential partner.
That's pretty big assumption to make from person who is obese. Though of cource it depends on how fat you mean by obese here. Personally I'd love to see more girls with heavier builds or are on fat side too. Just some diversity wouldn't be negative thing in the games.
Looks tell a lot about a persons personality though. What does obesity tell about someone? That he or shes is carrying around too much body fat and thus looks ugly?
Not just that, it makes me suspect that said person probably lacks willpower, has a boring lifestyle, is not interested in trying to live healthily or suffers from depression or other mental problems. Those are not character traits I find attractive in a potential partner.
You are talking about extremes here. Most people look average (cause, duh). A woman can still be cute and attractive without being model material.
The problem we're facing here is that we're too concerned with very specific details instead of looking at the big picture. The moment you care about nonsense like thigh gaps or nose sizes you've gone too far already.
Healthy doesn't mean athletic. It doesn't mean defined muscles.
Is there any chance people would like to summarize what the previous 87 pages were about for people who just checked in curiously?
I mean, it might also help since as normal this thing is spiraling off into infinite directions.
Is there any chance people would like to summarize what the previous 87 pages were about for people who just checked in curiously?
I mean, it might also help since as normal this thing is spiraling off into infinite directions.
Basically it's the "Bring back Boobplate" thread all over again. Women are sexualised, men are male power fantasies etc etc. Sprinkle with copious amounts of doublethink and you're about there.
Healthy doesn't mean athletic. It doesn't mean defined muscles.
Not necessarily, but its a good indicator. Many illnesses, physical and mental, prevent people from sporting an athletic look, and an athletic look shows that the person spends time on improving him or herself physically to decrease the odds of getting health issues down the road. Also a fit person is more able to -physically- protect potential offspring or the partner than a normal person.
Not necessarily, but its a good indicator. Many illnesses, physical and mental, prevent people from sporting an athletic look, and an athletic look shows that the person spends time on improving him or herself physically to decrease the odds of getting health issues down the road. Also a fit person is more able to -physically- protect potential offspring or the partner than a normal person.
Yeah, look. Some people work quite a lot and don't have the time or energy for fitness. But if they eat well, don't smoke and are generally living well, then they are healthy. All that physical crap? No longer relevant today.
Yeah, look. Some people work quite a lot and don't have the time or energy for fitness. But if they eat well, don't smoke and are generally living well, then they are healthy. All that physical crap? No longer relevant today.
Wrong, the human body was designed to perform many physical taxing tasks on a daily basis, especially those that require endurance. We were designed to run across grassy plains hunting prey for many hours each day. Or to put it on your words, we were designed to do a lot of ''physical crap''.
Just eating healthily and not smoking doesn't cut it as you can see with all the hundreds of thousands of seemingly ''completely healthy'' people who ruin their spines each year just from sitting in front of the computer. Also you don't have to work your butt off, half an hour per day is totally enough to get in shape. Look at me in my Avatar, I work out one hour / day and thats enough to become a hobby power lifter. And I'm self employed, I work night and day in order to make enough money.
Compare it to an engine, just polishing and oiling it doesn't cut it, if you don't run it every now and then it will become good looking scrap.
Fair enough. It's been a while since I've played the games, and Miranda wasn't my favorite character anyway, so I won't agree or disagree about her, I was just trying to give an example.
I do agree about Samara. I personally disagree about Jack in the sense that I don't think there's any personality or situation in which that leather strap thing doesn't look stupid, so I don't understand the motivation behind the choice there. I mean, at least give her a sports bra so she can move without discomfort or... slippage.
Oh I agree the strap didn't make any damn sense. I was referring to the tats.
Jacob's outfit looked like some.... weird sports uniform to me. That and him with his brooding dullard persona meant that I never used him beyond his the missions where he was required. I still don't see what the point of his character was supposed to be, other than to be femshep's space mandingo.
LOL really. Jacob. poor Jacob. Always got the short straw.
@Giant ambush beetle: I was refering to physically protecting your partner and offspring. That's not relevant at all.
Yeah because an extremely skin tight T-shirt is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.
...or not.
I'm sorry was he wearing that extremely tight t-shirt on the battlefield?
...Oh right he wasn't.
Like I said before. I don't care if they dress in their damn skivvies on their downtime. But when we're on the field they better do what Vega did and put on some damn gear.
@Giant ambush beetle: I was refering to physically protecting your partner and offspring. That's not relevant at all.
In our minds it still is. Are you intimidated by people who are much taller and stronger than you are? Why do many women like strong mates?
We're barely one step up from the stone age man, as you can see by our display of utter savagery when things get ugly, don't let civilization fool you.
Oh Please Miranda's booty is nothing compared to Kaidan's Biotic booty. Which Bioware didn't show enough of btw.
Uh......
No
I noticed that Jacob was wearing a skin tight suit a well. As a man I didn't even give a damn. What's the problem?
I always thought it looked kinda lame, and that it should've had more armor plating.
As for muscles, we had this argument on another forum when ME3 came out. Shepard is not THAT skinny. Again, compared to the average modern IRL female soldier, her arms are about average. The overly muscular men (not only Vega, who has his own character model) are less realistic, actually.
Nothing about Vega's character design is unrealistic.
Men in the military can range from thin and fit to muscular and fit, and anything in between. One shape isn't is necessarily more realistic than another. They just have to be able to pass physical fitness tests and keep up with activities that require a fair amount of endurance, like unit runs, or a hump (yomp for the Brits). Both can still be done with a fair amount of muscle mass.
My only issue with Vega was I wanted to troll him more for trying to get on Biotics. I mean really dude trying to say you're better than biotics when more than half your squad including your commander were biotics. Dumb move bro.
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