3626 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Because Miranda's biotics were never advanced enough to justify her relying on them for protection. (It's why she's a sentinel in the first place. She doesn't rely on her biotics like say Jack or Samara does. Gameplay and story say as much. Obviously she's not going to be as strong with them as someone who relies on them). Also look at what other biotics in the ME setting wear. Armor. And those are biotics that are Miranda's superior. Look at what other mages wear in the DA setting robes. (And those are mages that are below Vivienne's level). Miranda's biotics are advanced for a human yes...but she's still below any decent Asari (the main biotics, an adept Shepard, Jack, and Samara).

 

So she's below the people who are inherently better biotics than literally anyone, the uber mega player character who is also better than anyone by cirtue of being the player character, the experimental freak who is better than anyone, and the Justicar who is nearly as powerful as a matriarch. You're taking characters whose entire fighting style centers around their biotics and passing them off as better than another character who is a hybrid tech/biotic user. Of course they are going to be stronger biotics, that's the entire point. 

 

But how does this mean that they are justified in using barriers but Miranda isn't? Every single biotic enemy in the game(s) has barriers of some kind. so clearly biotic power isn't the determining factor here. As far as the lore is concerned, there's no reason at all to believe that Miranda (or any other halfway competent biotic) couldn't protect herself with barriers, in addition to her shields. That's the glory of being a sentinel. Shepard doesn't even need armor as a sentinel due to his/her tech armor and kinetic barriers.

 

 

Also biotics and kinetics barriers are only as powerful as the wielder.

 

Kinetic barriers are as powerful as the shield generator can allow without shutting down, overloading or malfunctioning, not the person wearing them. Unrelated, but that was bugging me. As far as biotic barriers are concerned, Miranda, in her own words, is "very advanced... For a human". implying that she is still stronger than most other human biotics, but clearly not on the level of a biotic prodigy like Jack or Samara. That isn't a reason to suggest that Miranda can't use her biotics for efficient barriers. Likewise, I don't need to be Kimi Raikonnen to be able to drive around the Nurburgring. I don't need to be Stephen Hawking to have a knowledge of astronomy and physics. One does not need to be a super top-level expert in a field to still be proficient in that field.

 

Miranda isn't that powerful in biotics that she can forgo her armor for them. That's my point. Jack and Samara (and an Adept Shepard) could.

 

I do not doubt that Adept Shepard, Jack, Samara, etc, can afford to go without armor, but why can Miranda not? The points you've given thus far aren't terribly compelling. And, like I said before, she would also have a layer of kinetic barriers in addition to any potential biotic barriers. 2 layers of protection.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Why is magic a valid defense for no armor, but biotics and kinetic barriers aren't?

Well, the lore does say that barriers and shields do not protect the person from things like heat, pressure, or radiation.

[o Ventus]

Well, the lore does say that barriers and shields do not protect the person from things like heat, pressure, or radiation.

And the post I was responding to was talking about combat, not environmental hazards.

 

Not that mage robes would protect against heat, pressure, or radiation either, which is what the comparison was. Vivienne's robes and clothing apparently being "legitimate" (for lack of a better term) while Miranda's is not.

[Han Shot First]

Kinetic barriers also only protect against fast moving projectiles.

 

They aren't a substitute for proper combat armor, IMO. All characters should have some form of armor, with the biotics just wearing something lighter than the others. Characters like Miranda or Thane in ME2 not wearing armor was a little silly for anything outside the Normandy, Illium, or the Citadel. 

[Cyonan]

Because Miranda's biotics were never advanced enough to justify her relying on them for protection. (It's why she's a sentinel in the first place. She doesn't rely on her biotics like say Jack or Samara does. Gameplay and story say as much. Obviously she's not going to be as strong with them as someone who relies on them). Also look at what other biotics in the ME setting wear. Armor. And those are biotics that are Miranda's superior. Look at what other mages wear in the DA setting robes. (And those are mages that are below Vivienne's level). Miranda's biotics are advanced for a human yes...but she's still below any decent Asari (the main biotics, an adept Shepard, Jack, and Samara).

 

The only powerful biotic we witness not wearing armor is Benezia and she mostly has her mooks fight for her.

 

That's the difference.

 

Also biotics and kinetics barriers are only as powerful as the wielder. Miranda isn't that powerful in biotics that she can forgo her armor for them. That's my point. Jack and Samara (and an Adept Shepard) could.

 

Of course they'd all still be boned when it came to any hazardous environment but what can you do.

 

If we do look at other biotics: Thane, Jack, Jacob, and Miranda all don't wear armour. Kaiden, Wrex and Javik wear armour. Samara does as well, even if it doesn't cover half her front. Liara can go either way, with alternate outfits that are and aren't armour.

 

Notice that on the list of biotics who don't wear armour, Jack is the only one clearly stronger at biotics. Also notice that on the list of biotics who do wear armour, Javik is an Adept and still wears it.

 

If he can wear armour without it interfering with his biotics, than any biotic would be stupid to not wear armour into combat. It's an extra layer of protection, even if only light armour to maintain good mobility. None of those characters have barriers that can hold up against sustained fire for very long.

 

The real reason that Jack doesn't wear armour and Javik does is because the artists thought they would look cool like that. Jack is supposed to look like your standard bad girl, and Javik is supposed to give off a feel of being an ancient warrior.

[Malanek]

If we do look at other biotics: Thane, Jack, Jacob, and Miranda all don't wear armour. Kaiden, Wrex and Javik wear armour. Samara does as well, even if it doesn't cover half her front. Liara can go either way, with alternate outfits that are and aren't armour.

 

Notice that on the list of biotics who don't wear armour, Jack is the only one clearly stronger at biotics. Also notice that on the list of biotics who do wear armour, Javik is an Adept and still wears it.

 

If he can wear armour without it interfering with his biotics, than any biotic would be stupid to not wear armour into combat. It's an extra layer of protection, even if only light armour to maintain good mobility. None of those characters have barriers that can hold up against sustained fire for very long.

 

The real reason that Jack doesn't wear armour and Javik does is because the artists thought they would look cool like that. Jack is supposed to look like your standard bad girl, and Javik is supposed to give off a feel of being an ancient warrior.

Not convinced at all. It isn't represented in the game but armor should have a weight factor just as weapons do and restrict movement. Moving around in full body armor has to be more restrictive and tiring than lightweight clothes.

[In Exile]

Just to clarify, which cultural trope are you referring to here? Is it the whole lovers on the side thing?

I ask because I've seen a documentary about the Mosuo, a culture considered to be matriarchal. Marriage and long-term monogamy are not practiced; women are free to change partners as often as they like. IIRC, the documentary suggested that marriage and monogamy came into being primarily as a method of assuring paternity, not that it is something women would necessarily choose.

I meant the fact that female writers are portraying the supposedly idealised lover as an unstable control freak with absolutely no regard for their personal autonomy or their willingness to consent.

[Cyonan]

Not convinced at all. It isn't represented in the game but armor should have a weight factor just as weapons do and restrict movement. Moving around in full body armor has to be more restrictive and tiring than lightweight clothes.

 

The point is that even as powerful biotics Javik, Adept Shep, and Liara all can wear armour, so all biotics should be able to do so without it having a major negative effect on them.

 

Is it as heavy as the armour Garrus or Wrex are wearing? Of course not, but it's still some level of actual armour.

 

In ME1, this was represented by adepts only being able to equip light armour but they've since removed the light/medium/heavy armour system from the game.

[In Exile]

Yeah, it's crazy of me to think that homosexuals are still men.

Finding a "man's man" isn't as easy as getting up in the morning and declaring that you're now into the dick.

[eyezonlyii]

Not convinced at all. It isn't represented in the game but armor should have a weight factor just as weapons do and restrict movement. Moving around in full body armor has to be more restrictive and tiring than lightweight clothes.

Yes and Biotics do have barriers, but I think it would make more sense to wear at least some armor so one didn't have to constantly focus their powers on protecting themselves. I think Kaidan's armor from Horizon in ME2 would be the perfect type.

[Ryzaki]

So she's below the people who are inherently better biotics than literally anyone, the uber mega player character who is also better than anyone by cirtue of being the player character, the experimental freak who is better than anyone, and the Justicar who is nearly as powerful as a matriarch. You're taking characters whose entire fighting style centers around their biotics and passing them off as better than another character who is a hybrid tech/biotic user. Of course they are going to be stronger biotics, that's the entire point. 

 

But how does this mean that they are justified in using barriers but Miranda isn't? Every single biotic enemy in the game(s) has barriers of some kind. so clearly biotic power isn't the determining factor here. As far as the lore is concerned, there's no reason at all to believe that Miranda (or any other halfway competent biotic) couldn't protect herself with barriers, in addition to her shields. That's the glory of being a sentinel. Shepard doesn't even need armor as a sentinel due to his/her tech armor and kinetic barriers.

 

Yes

 

And no she's not below Shep because Shep's an uber mega player character she's below Shepard because Shepard was rebuilt from the ground up to piggy back off the results of Jack's implants experiments as well so yes she's worse than Samara, Jack and a pure adept Shepard at biotics. That is the lore. This is backed up by her failure in the SM at holding the bubble. Her biotics are not that powerful that she can rely on them to the exclusion of all else. That's why she wear armor instead of wasting energy using her biotics on barriers that aren't necessary.

 

I didn't say they were justified in using them and she wasn't. I said they were most likely better at them. And they probably are. All bioitic barriers don't have the same impact. The SM make this clear. All of the biotics are capable of putting up the barrier. They aren't all capable of holding it up til completion. Only two people can do that. Samara and Jack (and only loyal ones).

 

Because nothing in game shows her biotics to have that level of advancement. If you have something that shows as much by all means show it!  Just relying on biotic barriers is stupid to begin with. Relying on them when your biotics aren't extremely impressive is absurd!

 

 

Kinetic barriers are as powerful as the shield generator can allow without shutting down, overloading or malfunctioning, not the person wearing them. Unrelated, but that was bugging me. As far as biotic barriers are concerned, Miranda, in her own words, is "very advanced... For a human". implying that she is still stronger than most other human biotics, but clearly not on the level of a biotic prodigy like Jack or Samara. That isn't a reason to suggest that Miranda can't use her biotics for efficient barriers. Likewise, I don't need to be Kimi Raikonnen to be able to drive around the Nurburgring. I don't need to be Stephen Hawking to have a knowledge of astronomy and physics. One does not need to be a super top-level expert in a field to still be proficient in that field.

 

 

 

 

I do not doubt that Adept Shepard, Jack, Samara, etc, can afford to go without armor, but why can Miranda not? The points you've given thus far aren't terribly compelling. And, like I said before, she would also have a layer of kinetic barriers in addition to any potential biotic barriers. 2 layers of protection.

 

Very advanced for a human is great and all. But again she does not rely on her biotics. She is a sentinel. (She and Kaidan.) Kaidan also has very advanced biotics for a human would you be saying this about him? The only biotics that shouldn't be wearing armor should be Asari biotics. Biotics with immense bioitic power. Not "very advanced...for a human." biotics. That's not enough. That's barely adequate. ****** Krogan biotics don't even forgo armor. WTF do humans look like skipping on armor for.

[Ryzaki]

If we do look at other biotics: Thane, Jack, Jacob, and Miranda all don't wear armour. Kaiden, Wrex and Javik wear armour. Samara does as well, even if it doesn't cover half her front. Liara can go either way, with alternate outfits that are and aren't armour.

 

Notice that on the list of biotics who don't wear armour, Jack is the only one clearly stronger at biotics. Also notice that on the list of biotics who do wear armour, Javik is an Adept and still wears it.

 

If he can wear armour without it interfering with his biotics, than any biotic would be stupid to not wear armour into combat. It's an extra layer of protection, even if only light armour to maintain good mobility. None of those characters have barriers that can hold up against sustained fire for very long.

 

The real reason that Jack doesn't wear armour and Javik does is because the artists thought they would look cool like that. Jack is supposed to look like your standard bad girl, and Javik is supposed to give off a feel of being an ancient warrior.

 

Thane's an assassin (and should've had cloak) him not wearing armor is also somewhat excused by his sickness and the whole drell excuse since his whole thing is one shot and I'm out. (not much of an excuse mind but there you go). Jacob is equally as stupid as Miranda. And his biotics are even worse than hers.

 

Samara doesn't wear armor at all. That's a bodysuit. But her biotics are immense.

 

Liara's shadow broker outfit has more plating than Miranda's catsuit.

 

But yeah it's rule of cool I know.

 

And of course that's the real reason.  But it certainly helps the setting that it makes sense that their abilities can support them being dressed like that.

[Cyonan]

Thane's an assassin (and should've had cloak) him not wearing armor is also somewhat excused by his sickness and the whole drell excuse since his whole thing is one shot and I'm out. (not much of an excuse mind but there you go). Jacob is equally as stupid as Miranda. And his biotics are even worse than hers.

 

Samara doesn't wear armor at all. That's a bodysuit. But her biotics are immense.

 

Liara's shadow broker outfit has more plating than Miranda's catsuit.

 

But yeah it's rule of cool I know.

 

And of course that's the real reason.  But it certainly helps the setting that it makes sense that their abilities can support them being dressed like that.

 

Thane should still logically wear armour during ME2, just some that's light and silent. That should be very easy to get in the Mass Effect universe with all those advanced materials they have.

 

Samara's outfit does actually have some plating on it as well. It just doesn't have anything at all covering half of her upper body.

 

In either case the whole "Their abilities are strong enough" as a reason to not wear armour when you're knowingly going into combat still makes no sense to me. Light armour is clearly not restrictive enough to have a major negative effect on your biotics if Shep, Javik, and Liara can all wear it.

 

and wearing light armour is more protective than nothing, even if you do have strong biotic barriers.

[Ryzaki]

Thane should still logically wear armour during ME2, just some that's light and silent. That should be very easy to get in the Mass Effect universe with all those advanced materials they have.

 

Samara's outfit does actually have some plating on it as well. It just doesn't have anything at all covering half of her upper body.

 

In either case the whole "Their abilities are strong enough" as a reason to not wear armour when you're knowingly going into combat still makes no sense to me. Light armour is clearly not restrictive enough to have a major negative effect on your biotics if Shep, Javik, and Liara can all wear it.

 

and wearing light armour is more protective than nothing, even if you do have strong biotic barriers.

 

Very true.

 

It does? Weird. So basically it's nowhere useful.

 

It isn't. Which is really why I'd prefer in Andromenda we drop the catsuit nonsense on the field. I don't care what they wear on the ship/hubs. But in combat we need actual armor. There's really no excuse not to and it's not even like DA where it's thematically consistent for people NOT to wear armor. It's just the companions being special snowflakes and it looks stupid.

 

I was just trying to justify why I sort of accepted Jack and Samara in ME2. XD

 

Edit: That said I would expect a strong biotic to wear really light armor, where's an engineer wore medium, so on.

[Cyonan]

Very true.

 

It does? Weird. So basically it's nowhere useful.

 

It isn't. Which is really why I'd prefer in Andromenda we drop the catsuit nonsense on the field. I don't care what they wear on the ship/hubs. But in combat we need actual armor. There's really no excuse not to and it's not even like DA where it's thematically consistent for people NOT to wear armor. It's just the companions being special snowflakes and it looks stupid.

 

I was just trying to justify why I sort of accepted Jack and Samara in ME2. XD

 

Edit: That said I would expect a strong biotic to wear really light armor, where's an engineer wore medium, so on.

 

Her biggest plating is on her shoulders and I believe some on the legs, but of course gotta show off that cleavage so there's nothing on her chest =P

 

As far as ME:A goes, I'm hoping that all companions have an alternate outfit that provides full combat armour so there is the choice there for everybody.

[Hazegurl]

Yes and Biotics do have barriers, but I think it would make more sense to wear at least some armor so one didn't have to constantly focus their powers on protecting themselves. I think Kaidan's armor from Horizon in ME2 would be the perfect type.

I actually like Kaidan's armor in ME2 a bit more than ME3. I sort of wish they had simply re-textured that armor or design one similar.  The ME3 one was a bit too bulky.  But then again so was he.

[eyezonlyii]

i really hope they go back to the tiered armor weights, even while maintaining an "iconic look", mostly because they showed that everyone had both armor and shielding and then a biotic could throw a barrior over the shield, a tech could improve the shield recharge (or just boost maximum sheilds). This also got into heavy armors having more Damage Resistance and light armors having more shielding anyway.

[Ryzaki]

Her biggest plating is on her shoulders and I believe some on the legs, but of course gotta show off that cleavage so there's nothing on her chest =P

 

As far as ME:A goes, I'm hoping that all companions have an alternate outfit that provides full combat armour so there is the choice there for everybody.

 

XD

 

I hate that outfit so much. My first though was "she looks like a blueberry."

 

But yeah I hope there's at least a covering optional outfit for the sandstorm/obviously hazardous planets that they shouldn't be exposed on. Those breathing masks on the collector ship were so stupid. And I'd lmfao if the quarians had thrown Jack/Miranda/Thane/Grunt off the ship for contamination during Tali's LM. 

[AresKeith]

Thane's an assassin (and should've had cloak) him not wearing armor is also somewhat excused by his sickness and the whole drell excuse since his whole thing is one shot and I'm out. (not much of an excuse mind but there you go). Jacob is equally as stupid as Miranda. And his biotics are even worse than hers.

 

Jacob to me felt like a vanguard so he definitely should've been wearing armor (and not a stupid swimsuit for casual wear)

 

Edit: looking at his skills, he pretty much was a Vanguard 

[Ryzaki]

Jacob to me felt like a vanguard so he definitely should've been wearing armor (and not a stupid swimsuit for casual wear)

 

Yeah I wish I could be more bothered by Jacob's armor but he's so freaking invisible most of the time.

 

Yikes. That's not much better is it.

[AresKeith]

Yeah I wish I could be more bothered by Jacob's armor but he's so freaking invisible most of the time.

 

Yikes. That's not much better is it.

 

Terrible 

[Han Shot First]

With Thane I think they should have went for the trenchcoat/armor combo, like the Drell (Feron I believe) in this fanart:

 

[AresKeith]

I also saw some fan art armor for Samara 

 

[Panda]

Some armor on top of regular outfits of squadmates would have been quite nice solution. In some places like visiting Citadel no-armor makes somewhat sense to me even if there is some battles, but going to hazardous environment or place full of enemies not so much. There was many times where it felt quite weird to have Shepard fully armored while Miranda with office clothes or Jacob with catsuit was standing next to me.

[Ryzaki]

Terrible 

DX

 

NOT MY FAULT.

 

But yeah I don't mind catsuits on hubs/ship. They can be free there. (Honestly it'd be nice to have the PC have some skimpy casual clothes as an option in civilized areas too).