3626 réponses à ce sujet

[Panda]

Not to get into this debate too heavily (about to play ME2 actually,) but would it honestly surprise you?  I'm not trying to mock the plot, but considering how much money and resources that Cerberus has stated to have, it wouldn't seem that far out of left field.  The ability for them to create better catsuits makes more sense than the Lazarus Project imho, that's for sure.  

 

I've already posted my feelings earlier in the thread, and I respect both your and Snake's PoV, so I'm staying out of it.  

 

I guess not if it was explained as project of Cerberus. I would except in time of ME3 that everyone would have adopted that superior armor type (catsuits) though.

[Panda]

You and Panda have fun with your latest debate.    I've got a krogan to go recruit.

 

I'd rather not ^^;

[mickey111]

No that's perfectly okay. In most games I've played, there's always a bald or buzz cut option. When that's the "only" option or something expected however? Well, that's where the problem comes into play.

 

The irony of referring to a picture of Demi Moore shaving her head after the fact in a movie where she's going through BUD/S "realistic" notwithstanding of course.

 

military women in the old days rode top,less on a horse therefore they should be topless in Mass Effect.

[von uber]

The alliance would have saved a fortune if they'd built their ships out of miranda's catsuit material.

Incidentally, Liara is a better biotic than Miranda, and she goes around in armour.

[BassStyles]

Hey von uber, your quote sounds like a Jack quote... Was it in the game/comic/novel and if so when does she say it? Just curious jajaja

[Pasquale1234]

I meant the fact that female writers are portraying the supposedly idealised lover as an unstable control freak with absolutely no regard for their personal autonomy or their willingness to consent.

Yikes! Thanks for explaining.

[Felya87]

The "problem" is not about "realism" in the exact sense. But in "coerence in the world the devs had given us". If all wear some kind of armour in combat, is incredibly strange having in the team so many people who don't wear it, expecially without any kind of explanation. If it was the case that new kinds of very light materials were created after the two years passed from ME1 to ME2 that made possible create very resisliant skin-tight armour, well, ok, if is explained is just a new thing in lore.

 

But this doesn't explain why said armour have hight hells (those no matter the lore, are NOT comfortable and ok in a battle.) and why the protagonist instead have to wear the usual armour.

Double standard too much.

 

In the lore is explained some rules can't be bended, like the atmosphear of certain planets, and stayng in space. Skin must be covered. Helmets used. So having the characters with uncovered skin and not suffering any side effect, is truly hard to swallow for who immersed him/herself into the lore given by the devs themselves.

 

(slight spoiler for Jurassic World)

Spoiler

Is like in jurassic world: I can't take seriously the girl running before the T-Rex on hells (but even without would have been the same) without being eaten right on the spot, when in the first film said T-Rex couldn't be easily outrunned on a jeep!!! Is ridicolous and immersion breaking. Not because it was impossibile per se, studies said that maybe the T-Res wasn't that fast as in the first JP, but if JW didn't put feathers and all on the dinosaurus to have a continuity with the first film, than why in this thing the internal coerence of the lore has been killed off?

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't mind having over sexualized characters outside of combat, but like a lot of people here said, please, under heavy gunfire make them use proper armor. And for god's sake, send the ****** breather masks to hell! Their heads would explode in contact with vacuum

No, they wouldn't, actually.

NASA accidentally exposed an astronaut to vacuum during testing in the 1960s. His head did not explode. However, he lost consciousness within seconds, and upon being revived (the vessel was repressurised immediately) he reported that his last sensation had been the saliva is his mouth boiling off.

[Pasquale1234]

No, someone fighting in a catsuit and high heels is unrealistic. That is a fact, not opinion.
 
Now whether or not someone is able to suspend disbelief for that, like other unrealistic elements of the series such as the Lazarus Project or biotics, boils entirely down to personal preferences.

My bigger issue is internal consistency. It's difficult to argue realism.

Every combatant we face throughout the series is wearing armor, as are all of the allied troops in ME3. For Shepard to take people who aren't properly attired into hazardous situations makes Shepard look like every bit the doofus as those squadmates who don't choose proper combat attire.
 

Not to get into this debate too heavily (about to play ME2 actually,) but would it honestly surprise you? I'm not trying to mock the plot, but considering how much money and resources that Cerberus has stated to have, it wouldn't seem that far out of left field. The ability for them to create better catsuits makes more sense than the Lazarus Project imho, that's for sure.

There are some statements made in ME2 that Cerberus spent most of its resources building the SR-2 and bringing Shepard back. Apparently, they managed to get their hands on massive amounts of fresh funding in preparation for ME3. 

 

In any case, if Cerberus did have the ability to create better catsuits, wouldn't their resident assassin / ninja ballet master be using one?  Kai Leng wore actual protective armor, with reinforced plates.  Most Cerberus mooks wore very heavy armors - even the phantoms had fully protective, albeit lighter, armor.

[PhroXenGold]

My bigger issue is internal consistency. It's difficult to argue realism.

Every combatant we face throughout the series is wearing armor, as are all of the allied troops in ME3. For Shepard to take people who aren't properly attired into hazardous situations makes Shepard look like every bit the doofus as those squadmates who don't choose proper combat attire.

 

Yeah. While "realism" isn't neccesarily the right word - plausibility is more appropriate IMO - whether or not these outfits fit under that criteria, this is indeed the big issue. Consistency.

 

If the series had established early on that going into battle with just a catsuit, and hazardous environment with a simple breath mask, was sufficent in the ME universe, then I at least would have far less of a problem with outfits like Jack's or Miranda's. But it didn't. In fact, it did the complete opposite - it quite clearly established that people wear armour in combat, and they wear full helmets in hostile conditions. And even in ME2, all your enemies, and indeed Shepard, continues this. For some of party members to suddenly ignore the mechanics of the setting is simply bad writing and/or visual design.

 

Incidentally, Miranda's Appearance DLC gear is freakin' awesome, exactly the kind of thing she should be wearing into battle (though I would've liked a proper helmet when she wanders into space). Had her "normal" outfit been her shipboard clothes, and this one her mission outfit from the word go, I'd've had no real complaints with regards to her (well, except the butt-cam, but that's another matter).

[Gwydden]

A catsuit isn't armor at all though, its just a thin layer of cloth. 

I think you missed my point.

 

I mentioned Starcraft because there Ghosts are black ops agents who wear catsuits, except these aren't a 'thin layer of cloth' but a special fabric that partially absorbs impacts. Which is also (along with their purpose as cloaking devices) why they're so tight. How do you know Miranda's and Jacob's outfits don't work the same way?

 

The funny thing is, i'm actually mostly in agreement with everybody here. I can't stand sexualised armor either. I just can't abide the realism argument because it doesn't hold up under any sort of scrutiny.

Pretty much the same here. I don't mind the style people are suggesting. It's the use of the 'realism' argument to make their entirely subjective opinions seem objective that bothers me 

 

And yeah, the butt cam was ridiculous and childish no matter how you put it.

[Altair_ShepardN7]

Hey von uber, your quote sounds like a Jack quote... Was it in the game/comic/novel and if so when does she say it? Just curious jajaja

It's that Spectre (Tela Vasir) which you have to kill in Liar of the Shadow Broker. She tells Shepard not to judge her for killing people for the Shadow Broker (in exchange of intel) because Shepard works for Cerberus. 

[Scofield]

What need have biotics for armor? 

[DaemionMoadrin]

What need have biotics for armor? 

 

The same as Jedi, who have to concentrate to even have a defense. There's a reason why you wore armor in KotOR and had seperate shield generators.

 

Only biotics have no precognition, so once the sniper hit you, it's a bit too late to throw up a bubble.

[Hellion Rex]

I would like an overly sexualized male character, pretty please.

[Panda]

I would like an overly sexualized male character, pretty please.

 

I believe you are in wrong thread in that case: http://forum.bioware...zed-characters/

It's understable, names are close ^^

 

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Jack should have worn a suit of secondhand Cerberus armor that's she' had marked up to suit her own tastes.  Like an anarchy symbol over the Cerberus logo, and various other colorful messages all over.

 

If BioWare had not put that awful ugly visor/glasses thing for jack in one of the ME2 outfits DLCs that outfit would have been awesome for Jack (Miranda's armor also had the same problem). Honestly I liked Jack's outfit (and hair style) in ME3 which IMHO suited her character a lot better.

[AresKeith]

I think you missed my point.

I mentioned Starcraft because there Ghosts are black ops agents who wear catsuits, except these aren't a 'thin layer of cloth' but a special fabric that partially absorbs impacts. Which is also (along with their purpose as cloaking devices) why they're so tight. How do you know Miranda's and Jacob's outfits don't work the same way?

If they did every Cerberus agent would've been wearing them, even Kai Leng has more armor than that

[Gwydden]

If they did every Cerberus agent would've been wearing them, even Kai Leng has more armor than that

Err, not necessarily.

 

Again, armor usually has drawbacks as well as benefits and heavy armor does not necessarily suit all fighting styles. Also, such a suit would probably be expensive. Sure, Cerberus has ridiculously inexhaustible funds... which is a perfect thing to complain about if you take issue with lack of realism!

[Pasquale1234]

Err, not necessarily.

 

Again, armor usually has drawbacks as well as benefits and heavy armor does not necessarily suit all fighting styles. Also, such a suit would probably be expensive. Sure, Cerberus has ridiculously inexhaustible funds... which is a perfect thing to complain about if you take issue with lack of realism!

 

Heavy armor is better suited to ninja ballet than 'cast and shoot from behind cover'?
 

[AresKeith]

Err, not necessarily.

 

Again, armor usually has drawbacks as well as benefits and heavy armor does not necessarily suit all fighting styles. Also, such a suit would probably be expensive. Sure, Cerberus has ridiculously inexhaustible funds... which is a perfect thing to complain about if you take issue with lack of realism!

 

But heavy armor isn't the only armor type in Mass Effect. Bioware may have dropped the light/medium/heavy system for the player but they still existed in the world. Miranda is a sentinel so light to medium armor wouldn't have any drawbacks on her, Jacob is a vanguard so medium and heavy armor would actually suit him

 

Like others said in the thread my issue isn't exactly "realism" it's plausibility 

[Cyonan]

I think you missed my point.

 

I mentioned Starcraft because there Ghosts are black ops agents who wear catsuits, except these aren't a 'thin layer of cloth' but a special fabric that partially absorbs impacts. Which is also (along with their purpose as cloaking devices) why they're so tight. How do you know Miranda's and Jacob's outfits don't work the same way?

 

Playing "What if?" doesn't really make the outfit seem more plausible, as if they really did create such a suit then they needed to explain that in-game. That, and this explanation would raise a lot more questions than it answered.

 

Also, a hydralisk was able to shoot a spine through Warfield's power armour as though he wasn't wearing anything at all. I'm pretty sure armour in Starcraft is just for show at this point =P

[Han Shot First]

I think you missed my point.

 

I mentioned Starcraft because there Ghosts are black ops agents who wear catsuits, except these aren't a 'thin layer of cloth' but a special fabric that partially absorbs impacts. Which is also (along with their purpose as cloaking devices) why they're so tight. How do you know Miranda's and Jacob's outfits don't work the same way?

 

 

My issue with that would be that if top of the line armor can be created from a thin layer of fabric, heavier armors either shouldn't exist or should be on their way out. They would be automatically rendered obsolete by that development. The Alliance & Cerberus and what have you should be equipping their troops with that light but protective fabric, instead of the heavier armors that would lessen mobility without providing significantly greater protection.

 

Jack also is wearing nothing over most of her body, even if ME:A gave a catsuit armor lore dump. 

 

Of course this is where personal preferences come in regarding suspension of disbelief. Some have no problem suspending it for catsuits absorbing or deflecting rounds fired by mass accelerators, or protecting from concussive blasts or shrapnel, while others (like myself) think it veers a little too far into space magic territory and is somewhat at odds with what we already have in the lore. 

 

For me it isn't a game-breaking complaint, particularly if other options are available. But since it strains my suspension of disbelief it definitely isn't my preference.

[AresKeith]

If BioWare had not put that awful ugly visor/glasses thing for jack in one of the ME2 outfits DLCs that outfit would have been awesome for Jack (Miranda's armor also had the same problem). Honestly I liked Jack's outfit (and hair style) in ME3 which IMHO suited her character a lot better.

 

I liked the visors 

[FKA_Servo]

I liked the visors 

 

I liked Miranda's at any rate. She needed that visor to determine whether things were over or under 9000.