219 réponses à ce sujet

[Vespervin]

I would like 8 squad-mates in the base game, but I have a feeling we're going to get 6. Don't know why, just looks right.

[CronoDragoon]

I would like 8 squad-mates in the base game, but I have a feeling we're going to get 6. Don't know why, just looks right.

 

6 is the magic number based on how Mass Effect's combat has worked thus far. They could have overhauled it, but based on the trilogy's system 6 gives you 3 "pure" specialists (soldier, biotic, tech) and 3 hybrid party members that are in between those 3.

[SerriceIceDandy]

8 sounds good.

Maybe more if we could have companions that are mutually exclusive to each other; not like Kaiden/Ashley, but right off the bat, if we recruit one we cannot recruit the other for however many reasons we could all conjure.

Using past games as an example imagine in ME2 you arrive and decide to recruit Samara first. After that mission, Thane is no longer an option. Nassana Dantius is dead and Thane has gone dark; or without the distraction Shepard & Co provided, Thane was killed. Or alternatively have a recruitment mission like Samara vs Morinth. Then it could open possibilities to how differently they react to your actions, and change the whole dynamic of the team.
 

[Pavan]

Am I the only one that loved the big group in ME2

 

Like you very own small army of badasses.

 

I loved having 12 companions - I really didnt like going back to so few in ME3.

 

For me 8 - 12 is a good range.

[SharpWalkers]

39

[Dean_the_Young]

6 is the magic number based on how Mass Effect's combat has worked thus far. They could have overhauled it, but based on the trilogy's system 6 gives you 3 "pure" specialists (soldier, biotic, tech) and 3 hybrid party members that are in between those 3.

 

6 also gives you a good balance of viewpoints, character contrasts, and romance options. DA2 had a core companion cast of 6, with one DLC (Sebastian) and the two siblings being temporary companions in structure. That still gave a solid arrangement of romance options, and that's not even including the possibility of non-companion major NPCs to buddy up and romance if you want/need that sort of thing.

 

The dozen we had in ME2 was wide, but pretty shallow individually. With the recent focus on companion interaction of DA2 and since, the half-dozen+ model seems to be the Bioware sweet spot for having both variety and depth while keeping character interaction up.

[BabyPuncher]

6 also gives you a good balance of viewpoints, character contrasts, and romance options. DA2 had a core companion cast of 6, with one DLC (Sebastian) and the two siblings being temporary companions in structure. That still gave a solid arrangement of romance options, and that's not even including the possibility of non-companion major NPCs to buddy up and romance if you want/need that sort of thing.

 

The dozen we had in ME2 was wide, but pretty shallow individually. With the recent focus on companion interaction of DA2 and since, the half-dozen+ model seems to be the Bioware sweet spot for having both variety and depth while keeping character interaction up.

 

'Shallow'? ME 2 had the best character arcs I've seen in a BioWare game by far, largely thanks to the loyalty missions.

[SNascimento]

'Shallow'? ME 2 had the best character arcs I've seen in a BioWare game by far, largely thanks to the loyalty missions.

Indeed. I mentioned this earlier. Tali for example has a much better arc in ME2 than she did in ME1, where she was basically a walking and talking codex entry (like Liara). 

The assumption that less squadmates will lead to better character development is factually incorrect, as the ME trilogy clearly illustrate. 
 

[BabyPuncher]

I certainly don't think it would hurt.

[SNascimento]

I certainly don't think it would hurt.

You mean having fewer squadmates?

[Dean_the_Young]

'Shallow'? ME 2 had the best character arcs I've seen in a BioWare game by far, largely thanks to the loyalty missions.

 

That's the issue, though: loyalty missions were pretty much all the ME2 companions had, and those companions had, at best, two missions to have their 'character arc' in.

 

The ME2 crew barely interacted with eachother. They barely talked on missions that weren't their own, and when they did it was overwhelmingly easily interchangeable filler comments. They almost never took positions on the Big Decisions, were frequently single-issue ponies, had almost no interaction with eachother and practically no character relationship with anyone not named 'Shepherd.'

 

And their banter sucked too. Just throwing that out there.

 

When compared to the duration of the character arcs in DA2 (which were generally three-act pieces not including companion missions and their positions on distinct issues), or the inter-party interaction of ME3 (in which companions not only, gasp, talk to eachother, upto and including the Citadel DLC party), or DAI, ME2 is pretty shallow.

[The Night Haunter]

One thing I will say ME3 did well is non-combat NPCs. I loved Traynor and Steve (And Joker, but he was already there!), and the fact that you could romance non-combat companions was a cool step.

 

I hope we have some awesome non-combat side kicks in ME:A.

[SNascimento]

That's the issue, though: loyalty missions were pretty much all the ME2 companions had, and those companions had, at best, two missions to have their 'character arc' in.

 

The ME2 crew barely interacted with eachother. They barely talked on missions that weren't their own, and when they did it was overwhelmingly easily interchangeable filler comments. They almost never took positions on the Big Decisions, were frequently single-issue ponies, had almost no interaction with eachother and practically no character relationship with anyone not named 'Shepherd.'

 

And their banter sucked too. Just throwing that out there.

 

When compared to the duration of the character arcs in DA2 (which were generally three-act pieces not including companion missions and their positions on distinct issues), or the inter-party interaction of ME3 (in which companions not only, gasp, talk to eachother, upto and including the Citadel DLC party), or DAI, ME2 is pretty shallow.

Lack of character interaction is ME2 weak point indeed, But then, ME1 also had very little of it, unless you consider romantic catfights and elevator dialogue very meaningful.

Point being, that's not a issue with the number of squadmates.

[Dean_the_Young]

Indeed. I mentioned this earlier. Tali for example has a much better arc in ME2 than she did in ME1, where she was basically a walking and talking codex entry (like Liara). 

The assumption that less squadmates will lead to better character development is factually incorrect, as the ME trilogy clearly illustrate. 
 

 

Sorry, I think you tripped over that bar you set it so low for Tali.

 

If we want to talk character development arcs over character exposition shorts, then the ME trilogy clearly demonstrates why it's for some people and not for others. Most companions don't get development arcs in which their progression is the focus of their own story. In fact, the closest some characters get is character regression, in which they backslide on already achieved developments (Wrex, Garrus). The majority of the cast doesn't change, simply gets a chance to shine for exposition once or twice (sometimes on the same topic- I'm looking at you, Miranda).

 

The people who get genuine development arcs across the games, rather than jumping around randomly between the games, can probably be counted on one hand. The Virmire survivor is the main one. Mordin is the other. I'd count the new characters of ME3, which had actual development arcs for the new characters, but that's not across the games.

[Dean_the_Young]

Lack of character interaction is ME2 weak point indeed, But then, ME1 also had very little of it, unless you consider romantic catfights and elevator dialogue very meaningful.
 

 

It certainly established character relationships more than ME2 did- and it helped that those elevator dialogues reflected various positions on the various galactic topics of interest. The dialogues with, say, Wrex didn't just establish the tone of ties with Wrex, it reflected opinions on the genophage. And Tali was a proxy for the Quarians. And so on. Much needed character development that ME2 lacked.

 

ME1 wasn't great, and there's a reason I say 'since DA2,' but it did the team building better than the game that was supposed to be about bringing a team together.

 

Point being, that's not a issue with the number of squadmates.

 

 

Sure it is. There's always going to be a limited number of zots to spend. You can spend your zots on more characters, but do less with them, or fewer characters, and do more with them.

 

Same limitations affect everything. Everything isn't in a zero-sum game with everything else, but like things are zero-sum with themselves.

[SNascimento]

It certainly established character relationships more than ME2 did- and it helped that those elevator dialogues reflected various positions on the various galactic topics of interest. The dialogues with, say, Wrex didn't just establish the tone of ties with Wrex, it reflected opinions on the genophage. And Tali was a proxy for the Quarians. And so on. Much needed character development that ME2 lacked.

 

ME1 wasn't great, and there's a reason I say 'since DA2,' but it did the team building better than the game that was supposed to be about bringing a team together.

I don't see it that way,  I thought ME2 did a better job at stablishing its characters, even if it lacked interaction between them. 

[Dean_the_Young]

One thing I will say ME3 did well is non-combat NPCs. I loved Traynor and Steve (And Joker, but he was already there!), and the fact that you could romance non-combat companions was a cool step.

 

I hope we have some awesome non-combat side kicks in ME:A.

 

Non-combat companion NPCs is probably one of the best Bioware experiments for the supporting cast since the DLC companions, and a good deal less controversial to boot.

 

I love the concept. I've loved it since DA2, which to this day I feel Bioware missed an opportunity considering Hawke actually has a stationary street address and spends the entire time in one city. Back when people were arguing that it was impractical or impossible for a non-squadie to be a good character or love interest, I was like 'it can totally work.' And it did: ME could have used the Citadel, but the Normandy worked just fine as a home-base and Traynor and Steve were home runs (that, amazingly, wouldn't have been imaginable a decade ago). DAI went beyond that, and showed that non-companions could still not only be very important story-supporting characters, but very popular romances too. And you don't even have to spend the zots on making them combat worthy!

 

I will be frankly amazed if Bioware goes back on what looks to be an emerging, and successful, trend. Especially when there's narrative reason to: unlike Dragon Age, where a story could conceivably be about a bunch of camp followers walking around in the wilderness forever, Mass Effect uses ships to travel. The PC is always going to come back 'home', where NPCs can be justified in hanging about. And the ship is likely to have a home port, where a romance NPC can also be justified.

 

I'm not that big into Bioware romances in general- I get bad-creepy vibes when a leadership figure is sleeping with a subordinate- but I am actually excited that we have the potential to break ground in the ME setting: to have a romance outside of the crew.

 

(Yes, yes, I have such an oppressed desire...)

[Dean_the_Young]

I don't see it that way,  I thought ME2 did a better job at stablishing its characters, even if it lacked interaction between them. 

 

Cool. You're wrong if you want to judge by time spent or attention given or tracking relative characterization changes and progressions or other metrics of character development, but you're welcome to prefer it.

 

Not everyone likes character development. Some people like just seeing their awesome characters prove themselves awesome. Nothing wrong with that.

[KaiserShep]

'Shallow'? ME 2 had the best character arcs I've seen in a BioWare game by far, largely thanks to the loyalty missions.

 

Personally I thought DA's gamut of characters was better at this in general, because they weren't passive on story decisions. 

[SNascimento]

Cool. You're wrong if you want to judge by time spent or attention given or tracking relative characterization changes and progressions or other metrics of character development, but you're welcome to prefer it.

 

Not everyone likes character development. Some people like just seeing their awesome characters prove themselves awesome. Nothing wrong with that.

You remind me of this:

[The Elder King]

Non-combat companion NPCs is probably one of the best Bioware experiments for the supporting cast since the DLC companions, and a good deal less controversial to boot.
 
I love the concept. I've loved it since DA2, which to this day I feel Bioware missed an opportunity considering Hawke actually has a stationary street address and spends the entire time in one city. Back when people were arguing that it was impractical or impossible for a non-squadie to be a good character or love interest, I was like 'it can totally work.' And it did: ME could have used the Citadel, but the Normandy worked just fine as a home-base and Traynor and Steve were home runs (that, amazingly, wouldn't have been imaginable a decade ago). DAI went beyond that, and showed that non-companions could still not only be very important story-supporting characters, but very popular romances too. And you don't even have to spend the zots on making them combat worthy!
 
I will be frankly amazed if Bioware goes back on what looks to be an emerging, and successful, trend. Especially when there's narrative reason to: unlike Dragon Age, where a story could conceivably be about a bunch of camp followers walking around in the wilderness forever, Mass Effect uses ships to travel. The PC is always going to come back 'home', where NPCs can be justified in hanging about. And the ship is likely to have a home port, where a romance NPC can also be justified.
 
I'm not that big into Bioware romances in general- I get bad-creepy vibes when a leadership figure is sleeping with a subordinate- but I am actually excited that we have the potential to break ground in the ME setting: to have a romance outside of the crew.
 
(Yes, yes, I have such an oppressed desire...)

I agree. And I honestly doubt Bioware is going back in this department.

[Dean_the_Young]

Personally I thought DA's gamut of characters was better at this in general, because they weren't passive on story decisions. 

 

They also talked to each other. Sometimes they even flirted. Oohlala.

 

Though ME characters have always been wet noodles when it comes to defying the glory that is the player.

 

You remind me of this:
 

 

Please. I am far more insufferable. And have less hair.

 

Amateurs.

[Feybrad]

It really depends on the Gameplay, but seeing as there has always been that rough trinity of "Biotics / Tec / Combat", I'd say 6 Companions to take out onto Missions.

 

But wait, there's more! ME3 and DA:I especially have proven that Characters who aren't Members of your fighting Squadron can be just as well developed, important and integrated into the Story. Also: I liked the Way (not the Roster, but the Way) DA:I split up the Romances (which is an inevitably important Topic in the BioWare Fandom) as there were enough for every Orientation plus a few extra Ones that made Sense for the Story and a large Portion that wasn't romanceable at all.

 

Thus, I would add another 6 Characters that are noncombative to our "inner Circle", to make a grand Total of 12 important Characters that aren't you.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah I would definitely like there to be more non-combat characters aboard our ship that can be important to the PC. ME and DA:I did very well to integrate these sorts of characters into the story. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Yeah I would definitely like there to be more non-combat characters aboard our ship that can be important to the PC. ME and DA:I did very well to integrate these sorts of characters into the story. 

 

Dude, we're on a ship. Don't be blind to the possibilities.

 

Let's have a lover at port to come home to. Or an affair with before we sail off at dawn. Or both, in different ports.