48 réponses à ce sujet

[Spin-Orbit]

well I stated my position as you have yours. Let's see if this new patch brings any changes on the archers.

[Xanterra]

well I stated my position as you have yours. Let's see if this new patch brings any changes on the archers.

We don't need any changes on the archers. You misunderstand me.

The archers are fine. Any other class, played well, has no issues being one-shot by them, and they hit hard enough that it's plenty punishing. Honestly, I'm not entirely sure the 10% nerf was needed, but I haven't noticed much of a difference anyway.

Stealth isn't. You're invisible. Nobody's aiming at you. You shouldn't suddenly drop dead because an arrow intended for your friendly legionnaire grazed your arm. You aren't armored - it should do a LOT of damage. But it shouldn't one-shot.

If you aren't stealthed, I see nothing wrong with an archer putting an arrow through your heart and one-shotting you. Hell, the archers tracking you after you stealth is fine and shouldn't be changed - it rewards players who know to LoS or dodge the arrows that might be after you. But random arrows should not one-shot you when you are invisible.

[Spin-Orbit]

We don't need any changes on the archers. You misunderstand me.
The archers are fine.
Stealth isn't.

I understand that, but I am commenting on some changes to the archers may be made based on the one step back one-shot attacks if what Luke said before holds.

As to stealth I agree there are places where it is buggy

[ErySakasegawa]

I just think there is a quick trigger reaction to everything, on the forums we always see buff this, nerf that, back and forth. Why make a high DPS/squishy chr which point would you say no if the next person say nerf the shadows more, nerf the despair demons, etc. what who would you be afraid of in the game? I think it goes into a no-win back and forth. I would rather be going into a zone knowing where the archers, assassins, shadows, despair demons are and being wary...its more fun when I make it through successfully.

I think balancing needs to be done on a regular basis. Even in high-profile multiplayer games like Diablo 3 nerfs/buffs happen often. About the difficulty increase from threatening to perilous I think, it's a huge gap, especially for some classes. For myself, I only venture into threatening to bring up my level 1 classes to about 8 or 9. At some times you can even wipe with very good classes in perilous. There is such a thing as bad luck on perilous difficulty. FC zone 3, 5 or even more despair demons stunlock you on the floor...nothing you can do at some times. Demon commander bossfight? Have 3-5 terrors stunlock you. Even normal mob types like archer, back-jumping and crit into your face for above 1,5k hp while you total hp pool is around 700. Not rarely I see 5 archers grouping up and shooting at you. Hell, I once saw at least 10 archer standing in one place shooting at me. There are places where you just can't hide yourself anymore. With or without stealth, hunter/assassin/alchemist is just to weak to survive that. Still voting for a coin like system. Of course, most of these problems are avoided when you have high promotions/someone who is only casting barriers, but that can't be the only solution.

[Spin-Orbit]

I think balancing needs to be done on a regular basis. Even in high-profile multiplayer games like Diablo 3 nerfs/buffs happen often. About the difficulty increase from threatening to perilous I think, it's a huge gap, especially for some classes. For myself, I only venture into threatening to bring up my level 1 classes to about 8 or 9. At some times you can even wipe with very good classes in perilous. There is such a thing as bad luck on perilous difficulty. FC zone 3, 5 or even more despair demons stunlock you on the floor...nothing you can do at some times. Demon commander bossfight? Have 3-5 terrors stunlock you. Even normal mob types like archer, back-jumping and crit into your face for above 1,5k hp while you total hp pool is around 700. Not rarely I see 5 archers grouping up and shooting at you. Hell, I once saw at least 10 archer standing in one place shooting at me. There are places where you just can't hide yourself anymore. With or without stealth, hunter/assassin/alchemist is just to weak to survive that. Still voting for a coin like system. Of course, most of these problems are avoided when you have high promotions/someone who is only casting barriers, but that can't be the only solution.

While I agree with you on principle I am not sure what the solutions is. While I am now highly promoted and am running for my alchemist banner in perilous primarily, my first banner was the assassin when I didn't have much promotions and I did a lot of runs in perilous most often in red health bar and in stealth. My hunter banner I did in mid 50's promotions and I felt I was in control most times but went into stealth quite often.

[ErySakasegawa]

Just to add another thought on stealth. Being in stealth mode to long is bad. While invisible you basically do nothing but moving. You generate no damage/support/combo experience. That is what I dislike most while playing Assassin. You're in stealth way to long. The other party members (assuming they don't use stealth themself xD) can be useful the whole time.

[Spin-Orbit]

Just to add another thought on stealth. Being in stealth mode to long is bad. While invisible you basically do nothing but moving. You generate no damage/support/combo experience. That is what I dislike most while playing Assassin. You're in stealth way to long. The other party members (assuming they don't use stealth themself xD) can be useful the whole time.

this as they have to change. Assassins need to be stealthy and if being stealthy doesn't give you xp then need to change, just as all character specific xp need to be reviewed

[Xanterra]

I think balancing needs to be done on a regular basis. Even in high-profile multiplayer games like Diablo 3 nerfs/buffs happen often. About the difficulty increase from threatening to perilous I think, it's a huge gap, especially for some classes. For myself, I only venture into threatening to bring up my level 1 classes to about 8 or 9. At some times you can even wipe with very good classes in perilous. There is such a thing as bad luck on perilous difficulty. FC zone 3, 5 or even more despair demons stunlock you on the floor...nothing you can do at some times. Demon commander bossfight? Have 3-5 terrors stunlock you. Even normal mob types like archer, back-jumping and crit into your face for above 1,5k hp while you total hp pool is around 700. Not rarely I see 5 archers grouping up and shooting at you. Hell, I once saw at least 10 archer standing in one place shooting at me. There are places where you just can't hide yourself anymore. With or without stealth, hunter/assassin/alchemist is just to weak to survive that. Still voting for a coin like system. Of course, most of these problems are avoided when you have high promotions/someone who is only casting barriers, but that can't be the only solution.

 

Honestly, most of those situations can be avoided via LoS, removing high priority targets (archer groups are just asking for someone to drop an AoE on them and terrors just aren't that tough). However, the squishiness of the alchemist and assassin certainly don't help. I think that's fine, though - their role is on the edges of the fight, sticking to the shadows and removing priority targets. They aren't meant to survive long in the thick of it.

The problem is that you can play them that way and still be downed instantly by a stray arrow even if you're doing everything right.

 

While I agree with you on principle I am not sure what the solutions is. While I am now highly promoted and am running for my alchemist banner in perilous primarily, my first banner was the assassin when I didn't have much promotions and I did a lot of runs in perilous most often in red health bar and in stealth. My hunter banner I did in mid 50's promotions and I felt I was in control most times but went into stealth quite often.

Assassins need to be stealthy and if being stealthy doesn't give you xp then need to change

I'm just going to be honest with you - those promotion numbers, as much as you may believe them to be average, are anything but average. As I've said time and time again, this forum is in no way representative of the overall playerbase. 50 extra cunning, willpower, and constitution will make a very noticeable difference in survivability and damage output.

The stealth/assassin XP is a difficult one to get right. If assassins generate XP just by being in stealth, then they'd be boosting the team's XP even if they stealthed at the beginning and just AFK'd at the entrance. I'm no expert(anyone with awesome ideas, chime in please!), but perhaps something along the lines of bonus XP for attacks or kills from stealth? (The Legionnaire also has quite an XP problem, but I'm pretty sure Bioware is aware of it.)

Edit: From what I hear, the alchemist is fine, XP-wise, as long as she does a no-stealth build, which is good, but perhaps fixing things for the assassin would make the alchemist's stealth builds more viable, XP-wise.

[Spin-Orbit]

I'm just going to be honest with you - those promotion numbers, as much as you may believe them to be average, are anything but average. As I've said time and time again, this forum is in no way representative of the overall playerbase. 50 extra cunning, willpower, and constitution will make a very noticeable difference in survivability and damage output.

The stealth/assassin XP is a difficult one to get right. If assassins generate XP just by being in stealth, then they'd be boosting the team's XP even if they stealthed at the beginning and just AFK'd at the entrance. I'm no expert(anyone with awesome ideas, chime in please!), but perhaps something along the lines of bonus XP for attacks or kills from stealth?

I agree during my hunter my padding was better but during the assassin runs it was in the teens. So yes promotions make a difference but my biggest difference maker was my first purple HoK ring. that made the assassin from non-viable in perilous to viable period.

[Xanterra]

I agree during my hunter my padding was better but during the assassin runs it was in the teens. So yes promotions make a difference but my biggest difference maker was my first purple HoK ring. that made the assassin from non-viable in perilous to viable period.

Amen on the purple HoK ring. That thing is a lifesaver. Though T3 upgrades with cloth are pretty helpful nowadays for those that don't have it.

I will say, though - it does make her more viable, but no amount of HoK is going to save you if you get one-shot.

 

(The assassin can't self-rez, and the alchemist usually doesn't have her mines down when she's in stealth en route, and self-rezzes aren't a great solution to survivability given their practice of using up resurrection charges)

[Spin-Orbit]

Amen on the purple HoK ring. That thing is a lifesaver. Though T3 upgrades with cloth are pretty helpful nowadays for those that don't have it.

I will say, though - it does make her more viable, but no amount of HoK is going to save you if you get one-shot.
 
(The assassin can't self-rez, and the alchemist usually doesn't have her mines down when she's in stealth en route, and self-rezzes aren't a great solution to survivability given their practice of using up resurrection charges)

I did have assassin self-rez with poison...works once in a while

[silksieve]

I find that if you really pay attention to the passive skills for each character, you can really make each character shine.

 

The Hunter has a passive damage bonus for close-range attacks, so I see him as a short-range bowman vs. the archer, who excels at distances.  The Hunter's stealth, traps, and poisons and even Fallback plan and aggression decrease passives all support this close-quarters playstyle.  I don't have Leaping Shot on the Hunter, but when I did, it served as a nice "panic button" to get out of mobs versus on how I use it on the archer, which is mainly to knockdown enemies.

 

The Assassin is my favorite character to play and her passive stealth bonuses and Cull the Herd damage bonus guide my playstyle.  I stealth as often as possible and target isolated enemies, many of whom are archers or mages.  I use upgraded Deathblow a lot, which allows me to end attacks in stealth or to attack from stealth twice (and get stealth bonuses on both). I also keep Hook Blade on her, even though its damage is midrange, since its 25% bonus to speed while stealthed makes a big difference for her.

 

For upgraded Flask of Frost, the taunt that makes enemies attack the Alchemist also freezes them all while Frost is active, so if you have a great team who can mop up the frozen enemies, it's pretty effective.  But it does depend on the rest of the team.

[Denrok1]

I agree with SOME of what is said here.

 

I feel you are not wrong that the five mentioned are the Weakest, but I would not go so far as to say weak. They each have their strengths and weaknesses.

 

Templar- One of my favorites in the bunch. I do not feel is weak at all. She can nuke entire spawns(WoH+purge), can take out big baddies (with SB/L+S), can spec to massively reduce cooldowns (BB), can soak damage (UB/BG), and survive decently well (defensive/armor passives). To me she is like a swiss army knife and there is so much variation in her tree so you can viably play with different builds each promotion. Most importantly (and this is important) due to combos, CC and killstreaks you can score very well, increasing the teams overall xp output. I think her only downside is her reliance on Guard (which, fingers crossed, should be fixed in the next patch).

 

Legionaire- The Lego is damned near invincible if you spec him to be. His one weakness is damage output, but you can sacrifice some survivability for damage output as TheThirdRace mentioned. Subjectively, he does not seem bad. He's a great character to act as a gateway to higher difficulties and can be REALLY fun if you play him right. Where he falls short is XP generation. If you stick with Shield Wall, you can get decent support XP. However shield wall is not as effective as his other defensive abilities so it can often get left out. What needs to be looked at is finding an elegant way to boost his support XP while tanking with his face.

 

Hunter- I will contend that the hunter is better than the Archer for one reason - build variety. He has so many different ways to play. He can be a Bow wielding assassin, an acrobatic death machine, a trapper, or any mixture of these. He has so many interesting tools to use and can be built in so many different ways. Where he falls short is that he doesn't seem to scale well with difficulty. With my level of promotions, he seems to be way too powerful for threatening but too weak for perilous. I think that a few things that would help would be to fix the jedi blocking (which is in the works), Fix stealth as people have suggested (dmg% reduction/aggro dump while in stealth), and buff razors edge. He is taking a huge risk at getting up close and should be rewarded more for the risk. He tends to score low on the scoreboard because there is no good way to build XP and there is no Combo Detonator.

 

Alchemist- I am an alchemist evangelist now. When you run Dragon Dagger/Strong offhand (wicked grace/Agony/etc) the alchemist can do some major damage. I run FoFire/FoFrost/EM/SS and litter the field with bombs and set up shatter combos. There are plenty of other great alchemist builds that other people run successfully and can be found floating around here. The flask buffs have really increased her viability and made all of her skills really shine. Like the Templar and Hunter, there is a lot of build variety and in the right hands she can be downright OP. She can generate tons of XP because she has so many CC abilities and AoEs, plus with the build I use I set up shatter combos and end up with the gold team combo medal for another boost. Her weaknesses are the same as any other melee, being close to the action and not having much to mitigate. But her squishiness can be offset by flask of frost at the right time.

 

Assassin- Of everyone, the Assassin is my most love/hate character. When she reaches the appropriate level, I feel like a god. Popping in and out of stealth just murdering everyone before they even notice me. But before that, she is the MOST FRUSTRATING CHARACTER TO PLAY WITH. Between the missing your skills (Twin fangs: WHIFF... WHIFF... WHIFF Enemy: *turns around and one-shots me*), the cool down on stealth, the positioning, the getting hit by arrows just as you hit stealth, the running up to something only to have the archer longshot it just as you hit and ability... nothing makes me want to smash my controller quite like it. Even when everything runs smoothly and you kill and kill and kill effortlessly, you end the match and you did 4.5k xp in perilous because you spent the whole time running from target to target. I agree that she takes the most strate-skill to play, but she is also (to me) the least motivating character as there is little tangible reward when you do play well.

 

 

-----MY SUGGESTION-----

 

I think that one thing that would help beyond what has been mentioned here is something like 'Ambush XP'. Ambush XP would award you XP for killing an enemy within a few seconds of exiting stealth. This would be a massive XP boost to Assassins, Hunters and Alchemists who are all on the low end of the spectrum as far as XP generation. This might stop people from seeing them as the band geeks of the DAIMP world and incentivize the effective playstyle of having a stealth character pick off high priority targets, adding to group cooperation and teamwork.

 

TL:DR-

All classes can be effective if you play them right but some are not as effective as others. Small tweaks can help this, such as adding Ambush XP for stealth characters.

 

I have never felt the damage output on the lego was that bad. Put two crit damage rings on him and go get 'em. I can't remember if the caliban has room for an add on but if it does, add more plus crit damage. My shield bash then for hits around 2k to 3k and counter strike around 1.5k.

[TheThirdRace]

I take it you have no issues with stray arrows on Perilous? Any idea whether that's skill (I recognize that, while not terrible, I'm far from the best - I do try to stick to the edges of the battlefield while stealthed, but I've still gotten killed by stray arrows often enough to recognize that problem) or promotions?

I do have some problems with arrows, that's why I rely on a combination of Unyielding + Heal on Kill (20%+) + Shield Wall. With that combination, I rarely die at all. I suggest you read the strategy for the build I posted earlier as it explains better the situation where you need to block and pay attention on your defense.

A 200 HP belt and a couple Warrior and Rogues promotions can't hurt (Con/Cun), but they're not absolutely necessary. They do allow you to take a couple more chances, but while it's noticeable, it's not overly much more either. We're talking about 2 or 3 arrows, this can be like 2 seconds or 2 minutes depending on the situation.

I wouldn't say it's about skills, although it sure helps. Mages requires no skills at all with the use of Barrier so putting the blame on skills wouldn't be right for comparison's sake. Guard/Armor should offer more protection, anything remotely in the same ballpark to what Barrier offers would be a big help. When this is fixed, if ever, then you'll realize skills have almost no influence on the matter, thus why I say it's not about skills...

[Xanterra]

I do have some problems with arrows, that's why I rely on a combination of Unyielding + Heal on Kill (20%+) + Shield Wall. With that combination, I rarely die at all. I suggest you read the strategy for the build I posted earlier as it explains better the situation where you need to block and pay attention on your defense.

A 200 HP belt and a couple Warrior and Rogues promotions can't hurt (Con/Cun), but they're not absolutely necessary. They do allow you to take a couple more chances, but while it's noticeable, it's not overly much more either. We're talking about 2 or 3 arrows, this can be like 2 seconds or 2 minutes depending on the situation.

I wouldn't say it's about skills, although it sure helps. Mages requires no skills at all with the use of Barrier so putting the blame on skills wouldn't be right for comparison's sake. Guard/Armor should offer more protection, anything remotely in the same ballpark to what Barrier offers would be a big help. When this is fixed, if ever, then you'll realize skills have almost no influence on the matter, thus why I say it's not about skills...

I was actually referring to stealthed rogues - though I'd absolutely agree with you as far as the legionnaire is concerned. He's a blast. 
I'd agree with you on the guard issues, though. 

 

I have never felt the damage output on the lego was that bad. Put two crit damage rings on him and go get 'em. I can't remember if the caliban has room for an add on but if it does, add more plus crit damage. My shield bash then for hits around 2k to 3k and counter strike around 1.5k.

 

He's fine on damage. His issue is XP.

Good to know, though.

If anyone has knowledge of how this plays out with a rogue, you should definitely let us know. I don't think they should be able to get hit repeatedly and survive, but it's those one-hit kills (or nearly so) in stealth that I think are problematic.

[Jaden Erius]

I should point out that it is true that assassin suffers from severe issues with survivability and probably should get a buff to damage since its primarily single target and cool down tied, but when specced properly and played with a team, she is pretty strong, much more viable than odd classes like the hunter or the incredible danger that comes with playing a katari (with the current weak guard). Just make sure you let your team draw aggro first and go around to assassinate the dangerous targets cause end of the day, the assassin does not fill the row of killing foot soldiers but rather taking out annoying and often lethal targets like despair demons, archers, mages. Shadow and stalkers are not even a good option for assassins to take out as unless you can catch them, it is far too dangerous to engage any target that you cannot kill quickly or can counter hit you before you can kill them (therefore archers, mages, despair demons (before barrier))

[TheThirdRace]

I think the changes should be to the
1. Threat and aggro generation system
2. Experience points revision
3. Guard revision (this is being done I assume)

I would add
4. Skill tree revision to get skills earlier

In ME3MP, you had access to all your skills by level 3. Some builds in DAMP require level 16... That's way too much.

[TheThirdRace]

I was actually referring to stealthed rogues

Oh, well I also have problems with arrows with the Assassin and the Alchemist, but it's usually not too bad. As I said earlier, it's all about how to move, getting the enemy patterns and time it right.

There are 3 things absolutely essential when playing a melee Rogue.

• You should never engage a target you can't kill in less than 3 seconds
• Always wait until the group is aggroed by your teammates (you'll have free hits without generating any aggro)
• Stay far away from your teammates

The last one is the single most important aspect of playing a Stealth melee Rogue.

When your teammates are around, they will make the enemies behave in unexpected ways, it introduces randomness you simply can't afford. Timing is everything, 1 ally in a 6 foot radius can become your worst nightmare.

Allies also tend to hide behind whoever is standing near them when they need to avoid damage. It's a reflex, we all do that. Sometimes your ally just want to get to that pillar or corner for cover, but in the process he crosses your path. 99% of the time, that's the exact moment the Archer shoot and you're the one that get that freaking arrow between the eyes...

So remember this, if you're anywhere near an ally then you are in greater danger than being in the middle of a group of enemies. Stealth melee Rogues can't survive being a target so you need to take every decision with that in mind. The more skilled you become with them, the more you lower that "no ally" radius. When you finally master them, you can pretty much dance around your allies without any problem. It took me around 100 hours to get there and I still get killed once in a while...

[Xanterra]

Oh, well I also have problems with arrows with the Assassin and the Alchemist, but it's usually not too bad. As I said earlier, it's all about how to move, getting the enemy patterns and time it right.

There are 3 things absolutely essential when playing a melee Rogue.

• You should never engage a target you can't kill in less than 3 seconds
• Always wait until the group is aggroed by your teammates (you'll have free hits without generating any aggro)
• Stay far away from your teammates

The last one is the single most important aspect of playing a Stealth melee Rogue.

When your teammates are around, they will make the enemies behave in unexpected ways, it introduces randomness you simply can't afford. Timing is everything, 1 ally in a 6 foot radius can become your worst nightmare.

Allies also tend to hide behind whoever is standing near them when they need to avoid damage. It's a reflex, we all do that. Sometimes your ally just want to get to that pillar or corner for cover, but in the process he crosses your path. 99% of the time, that's the exact moment the Archer shoot and you're the one that get that freaking arrow between the eyes...

If you're anywhere near an ally, you are in greater danger than being in the middle of a group of enemies, the randomness is too much to handle reliably. Stealth melee Rogues can't survive being a target so you need to take every decision with that in mind. The more skilled you'll become with them, the more you'll lower that "no ally" radius. When you do master them, you can pretty much dance around your allies without getting killed. It took me around 100 hours to get there and I still get killed once in a while...

 

This is good advice. I've already picked up most of it, but I couldn't phrase it nearly as well as you, so I'll definitely be linking friends here.
Edit: One thing to say - sometimes, they need your help, so you have to come back. Ideally, they shouldn't - your picking off targets on the fringes should be all you need to contribute, but we don't always live in an ideal world. That's risky business, but it must be done from time to time.

I definitely screw up from time to time still - miscalculated an archer's target or just didn't see something coming. Clearly need more practice.

I still think the penalty for anything less than CONSTANT VIGILANCE is much greater than it would be on other classes, though. I'm happy with dual-dagger rogues having a higher skill cap, but I'd love for it to not be a one-shot. That's just not a great gameplay mechanic.

[Drasca]

The problem is that you can play them that way and still be downed instantly by a stray arrow even if you're doing everything right.

 

Only one problem with that statement: You aren't doing everything right if you're in the line of fire of stray arrows. Yes it is part get gear+promotions+build, but also part learn to play.

 

 

There are 3 things absolutely essential when playing a melee Rogue.

• You should never engage a target you can't kill in less than 3 seconds
• Always wait until the group is aggroed by your teammates (you'll have free hits without generating any aggro)
• Stay far away from your teammates

The last one is the single most important aspect of playing a Stealth melee Rogue.

 

While the assassin game is all about situational awareness and positioning, the last part is certainly not always true. It is certainly contextual. If you fulfill the first two conditions, you can assasinate targets that are busy attacking your allies. Especially if you pay attention to the enemy attack animations, you'll know when the enemy is committed to their attack, and when they are not. If you recently dropped out of stealth, that means you have no aggro on you.

 

You should be attacking enemies that attack your teammates, but always from the enemy's flank, and never on the same side of the enemy as your ally is.

 

You should definitely pay attention to what type of enemies are around, their location, movement and flow pattern, and most certainly not move away from your allies to a position where the DC will pop up and kill you after being warned not to go there, and insist the DC won't go there, but get killed twice over afterward anyway.

 

If there's enough demand for assassin video, I'll do one. I'm sure there'll be people that complain about my stats and when I feel lazy or pull stunts that they cannot, but people able to pay attention will see exactly when and where I move, what angles, observe enemy animation timing, such as starting to auto attack enemies when they begin their bow plucking animation-- because they'll be committed to it, granting time to kill them.

[FRZN]

Give evade a few iframes. This gives all rogues a skill based mechanic they can use against high lethality attacks that doesn't have any scaling concerns to balance. Similarly, make fallback plan activate automatically upon taking lethal damage so it doesn't become useless when enemies can kill you in one hit.

Rogues: If possible, make stealth break enemy tracking on attacks that haven't launched. An archer tracking you with long draw for several seconds after you've gone into stealth looks ridiculous. Hits from stray arrows seem to happen too easily but at least make sense.

Hunter: Buff his damage so that he actually hits harder than the archer in favorable circumstances.

Alchemist: Make her trees... better. If I don't have stealth in my build, and I usually don't because if I want to use ride the storm that takes up three slots, it takes a minimum of five points in cunning to reach a useful passive.

Necromancer: Blizzard should either do more damage or freeze enemies faster. Ice armor should stay activated more reliably. Enemies revived by spirit mark should be aggressive. The explosion damage on walking bomb is broken and does an extra tick of dot damage instead. Fortifying blast shouldn't break if you get downed.

When it comes to warriors I just don't care. Sorry, no suggestions.

[Xanterra]

Only one problem with that statement: You aren't doing everything right if you're in the line of fire of stray arrows. Yes it is part get gear+promotions+build, but also part learn to play.

Fair point - the vast majority of the time, if you're in the line of fire as a dagger rogue(other than perhaps isabella at times), you're doing something wrong.

The design philosophy of this game (as it appears - obviously, Bioware would know for sure) is not that an occasional minor failure have major consequences. The consequences are obviously higher as one goes up in difficulty each time, but I believe it's out of line with the level of consequences other classes experience for imperfectly surveying the battlefield. Should rogues have higher consequences and a resulting higher skill cap? It makes sense to me based upon class flavor.

However, in my opinion, those consequences are a bit too high. A 50% damage reduction while in stealth would not be overpowered, but would reduce those consequences slightly, enough that those classes would hopefully be more perilous-viable in the hands of a good and informed but not top-tier player.

Not to contradict the value of your advice - it's great stuff, and I'm sure paying attention to these things will eventually make me (and others who read it) better players. It is important to note, though, that it takes quite a while to internalize these observations, though, and the vast majority of the population will probably never approach the skill of the top-tier players.

Rogues: If possible, make stealth break enemy tracking on attacks that haven't launched. An archer tracking you with long draw for several seconds after you've gone into stealth looks ridiculous. Hits from stray arrows seem to happen too easily but at least make sense.

I actually disagree with fixing the stealth (not) breaking enemy tracking thing - it rewards skill, and is relatively easy to deal with and expect. Just LoS or dodge and weave for a bit after you stealth, and you'll almost never get hit. As a bonus, you just wasted those archers' time when they could have been hitting targets that were standing still.

Edit: I think FRZN has a fair point that which is more problematic could vary from person - to - person, though I personally believe something very predictable like locked-on archers is easier to deal with than carefully observing the battlefield to watch for arrows. Why not do both, though? If rogues are too survivable afterwards (which I doubt would be the case), then it'd be pretty easy to adjust the damage reduction on stealth down a bit.

Personally, I'd advocate for leaving that in over not dealing with stray arrows. From a logical standpoint, you're absolutely right, but (IMO) from a gameplay standpoint, my suggestion is preferable. It's a parallel of the fact that melee enemies will continue their swings, possibly hitting you if you don't move. It just looks a lot more ridiculous.

Modifié par Xanterra, 24 juin 2015 - 04:08 .

[FRZN]

I actually disagree with fixing the stealth (not) breaking enemy tracking thing - it rewards skill, and is relatively easy to deal with and expect. Just LoS or dodge and weave for a bit after you stealth, and you'll almost never get hit.

*shrug* The same can be said about avoiding stray arrows, just learn not to stand in the wrong place.

As a bonus, you just wasted those archers' time when they could have been hitting targets that were standing still.

I value my time more than the archer's time though.

From a logical standpoint, you're absolutely right, but (IMO) from a gameplay standpoint, my suggestion is preferable.

I think which is more beneficial will vary from player to player.

I do understand your position but personally I see it as part of the gameplay rather than as a problem.

[BiggyDX]

I think one way to address dps issues with the Legionnaire is to give him a bonus similar to the Caliban, where his damage output ramps up with more enemies nearby. This could either be a passive that takes the place of an existing one, or an innate ability similar to the Katari's guard on hit. This would be good synergy with his playstyle, since he's meant to be at the forefront and engaging multiple enemies at once.

 

The Templar sounds like she'll do just fine based on hints related to the new patch, so I'll reserve judgement on what she needs improvement on. So far, my only complaint is that it feels as though she needs to rely on killing enemies fast enough on Perilous in order to survive long enough, rather than having a suitable defensive means of staying alive. She's not the Reaver; who fits that role to a T. 

 

The idea for Ambush XP is a good way to boost experience growth for stealth rogues. I guess for the Assassin I would probably make it so she gets a movement speed bonus after each kill. This would provide some good ground clearance so that she can continue her assault, in addition to letting her make a quick escape. Alternatively, her Evasive passive could be tweaked to provide a large spike in damage avoidance after killing an enemy, or shortly after leaving stealth. Outside of that, I'd probably restructure her skill trees so her abilities come a bit earlier.

 

The Hunter should have his Spike Trap be a detonator...since its literally a detonated bomb. As with the Assassin, his abilities could benefit from some restructuring, but I think the biggest boost he could get is to his close quarter passive (the one that gives 15% damage bonus to enemies within 10 meters). I'd bump that up to at least 30%. It'd also be cool if Grappling Chains upgrade allowed him to deploy a Spike Trap (that does reduced damage) once he reaches the enemy, rather than no cooldown/cost.

 

The Alchemist..Well, that's another story. >_>