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The homosexual power-hungry mage


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#76
draken-heart

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Well I don't know about this thread, but at least in the gay KISA thread, it's not necessarily about having a solely M/M option. It's more about having diversity in the LGBT characters and how we would ideally have them, and in that thread's case, having a morally upstanding warrior available either for a M/M or a F/F romance.

 

What the idea evolved into was something of the antithesis of the KISA idea, a mage that is an M/M or F/F with the dark power-driven mindset. Morrigan ticks that box for the mage and driven (and not a goody-goody), but was exclusively straight. Merrill was Bisexual or player-sexual but did not tick the dark, power-driven box at all. Anders was just nuts so I do not really include him.



#77
Saphiron123

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That's adorable 

Name one game that preaches more? None of the LGBT characters were written for LGBT fans, if they were they wouldn't spend so much time "educating".

A character can just be gay or trans without editing the entire qunari race to be cool with it, or long winded speeches explaining it to the general public. It was pretentious and poorly executed.



#78
Hanako Ikezawa

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Name one game that preaches more? None of the LGBT characters were written for LGBT fans, if they were they wouldn't spend so much time "educating".

A character can just be gay or trans without editing the entire qunari race to be cool with it, or long winded speeches explaining it to the general public. It was pretentious and poorly executed.

Josephine didn't spend any time "educating" people on that kind of stuff. 


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#79
Andraste_Reborn

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Josephine didn't spend any time "educating" people on that kind of stuff. 

 

Nor do Sera or Bull, AFAIK. Not to mention Leliana. The only place 'education' comes up are in Dorian's personal quest and a conversation with Krem. That's about fifteen minutes of content in a game that can easily last a hundred hours and has a a bunch of LGBT characters in it.


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#80
AresKeith

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Nor do Sera or Bull, AFAIK. Not to mention Leliana. The only place 'education' comes up are in Dorian's personal quest and a conversation with Krem. That's about fifteen minutes of content in a game that can easily last a hundred hours and has a a bunch of LGBT characters in it.


One of them you can even skip over
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#81
Andraste_Reborn

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One of them you can even skip over

 

Heck, you could refrain from recruiting Dorian and/or doing his quest and skip the lot!


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#82
daveliam

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Now now folks, there's no room for your logic in here.  It's far more accurate to say that DA: I was filled to the brim with gay 'education' talks.  Literally shoving the agenda down your throat at every turn.  That makes much better hyperbole than the fact that it's actually less than 1% of the content of the game (about 10-15 minutes in a 100+ hour game). 

 

On topic, I like the idea of getting a traditional Tevinter Magister.  Someone who buys in the superiority of Magisters and is power hungry both with her magic, but also politically.  She could be part of the party because of a 'our goals align..... for now' type of story arc where she's only supporting you (at first) because she sees how she can gain personally from your success.  The only downside to this is that she'd need to be bisexual (that's not the downside; I promise ;)) and her female lover would have to be side-lined (a la Alistair) or she'd end up being a retread of Dorian.  Not sure how people would feel about that.  But it could be interesting.


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#83
draken-heart

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On topic, I like the idea of getting a traditional Tevinter Magister.  Someone who buys in the superiority of Magisters and is power hungry both with her magic, but also politically.  She could be part of the party because of a 'our goals align..... for now' type of story arc where she's only supporting you (at first) because she sees how she can gain personally from your success.  The only downside to this is that she'd need to be bisexual (that's not the downside; I promise ;)) and her female lover would have to be side-lined (a la Alistair) or she'd end up being a retread of Dorian.  Not sure how people would feel about that.  But it could be interesting.

 

That would be a GREAT IDEA. I never actually thought much about having the archetype be a bisexual magister at all till you threw this up.

 

If only they did this to Vivienne, and made Josie a male human only romance (not that Actually want to romance Vivienne, mind you ;) )



#84
Serelir

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I'm all for more bisexual characters! I think it would work especially well with an ambiguously chaotic character (though perhaps that's an unfortunate stereotype). It would be a lovely contrast to the buff gay Paladin.

 

I still want a dastardly male rogue though. I miss Zevran. Is it too much to ask for two evil Tevinter mages?

 

If only they did this to Vivienne, and made Josie a male human only romance (not that Actually want to romance Vivienne, mind you ;) )

 

Hey, masochists need love, too! The Vivienne romance would be a perfect exercise in humiliation.



#85
berelinde

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Now now folks, there's no room for your logic in here.  It's far more accurate to say that DA: I was filled to the brim with gay 'education' talks.  Literally shoving the agenda down your throat at every turn.  That makes much better hyperbole than the fact that it's actually less than 1% of the content of the game (about 10-15 minutes in a 100+ hour game). 

 

On topic, I like the idea of getting a traditional Tevinter Magister.  Someone who buys in the superiority of Magisters and is power hungry both with her magic, but also politically.  She could be part of the party because of a 'our goals align..... for now' type of story arc where she's only supporting you (at first) because she sees how she can gain personally from your success.  The only downside to this is that she'd need to be bisexual (that's not the downside; I promise ;)) and her female lover would have to be side-lined (a la Alistair) or she'd end up being a retread of Dorian.  Not sure how people would feel about that.  But it could be interesting.

To me, this would read too much like a romanceable Vivenne in Tevinter robes. I'm not saying that would be a bad thing!

 

When it comes to romances, I like variety. I like the storybook romances like Alistair's and Cullen's (even if Alistair's has an unpleasant little twist if you're not a HN). I like the tragic trainwreck Anders delivers. I like Isabela's "friends with benefits" that develops into something much deeper. I like Blackwall's... whatever that was. I would play and I'd probably enjoy a romance where the LI is blatantly using you, at least initially. It would take some stellar writing to elevate it from the wicked bi/lesbian stereotype, but the writers at BioWare are certainly up to the challenge.

 

But there is that uncomfortable stereotype surrounding ambition and lesbians, as if being a lesbian made them "badder," more evil. It's similar to the one where sexy women, in general, are evil.  It's been done poorly in games before (c.f. DAO's self-fondling desire demon), and it tends to come across as a fetish. I think the writers are aware of that. They've gone out of their way to subvert the "sexy women are evil" trope, and I'm grateful, but I'm not sure the gaming public is ready for a complex, intelligent portrayal of a sexy, ambitious, bi/lesbian LI. I'm not adverse to the idea! It could be a lot of fun. But it is tricky.


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#86
Saphiron123

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Josephine didn't spend any time "educating" people on that kind of stuff. 

Josephine was cool. Dorian and Krem had a lot of heavy gender exposition... and it wasn't written for LGBT people, it wasn't even written for open minded people, it felt like it was written for people who had no goddamn idea what gender was.

Meanwhile, the racism and conflicts of past dragon age games were barely even touched on.



#87
daveliam

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Josephine was cool. Dorian and Krem had a lot of heavy gender exposition... and it wasn't written for LGBT people, it wasn't even written for open minded people, it felt like it was written for people who had no goddamn idea what gender was.

Meanwhile, the racism and conflicts of past dragon age games were barely even touched on.

 

Dorian's romance was written by Gaider and it was something that he's said he wanted to write for a long time.  My takeaway (subjective) is that it was a bit of a cathartic process for him.  I suspect he worked out some demons in the process.  Which is not a bad thing for a writer to do. 

 

It had very little to do with gender.  It is somewhat related to sexuality.  It's also somewhat related to not living up to the expectations of your parents and the consequences of them trying to change you into what they think you should be.  It was a bit ham-fisted at times, but I don't see how it 'wasn't written for LGBT people'.  In fact, I've seen many LGBT people openly appreciate the story as it's not something that's been covered in video games prior to this. 


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#88
Serelir

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It had very little to do with gender.  It is somewhat related to sexuality.  It's also somewhat related to not living up to the expectations of your parents and the consequences of them trying to change you into what they think you should be.

That was my biggest takeaway from Dorian's story. I have straight siblings who never married and bore the brunt of my father's ambitions and even the "continuing the family name" speech.

 

I did wonder, while chatting with Krem and Dorian, if society has simply changed so much and so quickly that people either don't know or have forgotten just how bad things were for LGBTQ people. I encountered the same attitude in reviews of a novel that dealt with the illegality of homosexuality in 17th century Amsterdam, and people were like, "What's the big deal?" I'm not sure whether to feel happy that sexual preference is no longer a death sentence in a few developed countries, or appalled that people have swept that history of oppression under the carpet. 

 

Then there are the players who just don't want stories about anyone who isn't exactly like themselves or made specifically for them to romance. I think Bioware has done an excellent job of creating complex, interesting characters and hope they continue to resist the pressure to stereotype.


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#89
TheOgre

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@Serelir I'm not sure if this is entirely the same situation but..

 

In Australia today, they also have one of the most anti homophobic laws. Apparently, if you kill a man, you can claim they were trying to violate your pure straight sexuality. It's one of the most successful ways for people to drastically lower their crimes. 

 

They tried to have it repealed as it was an older law, but the current policy holders of today replied that there was nothing wrong with the law. It's really messed up.



#90
SardaukarElite

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In Australia today, they also have one of the most anti homophobic laws. Apparently, if you kill a man, you can claim they were trying to violate your pure straight sexuality. It's one of the most successful ways for people to drastically lower their crimes. 

 

Wait, we have what?



#91
TheOgre

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Wait, we have what?

 

https://en.wikipedia...y_panic_defense

 

http://www.brisbanet...821-106wvh.html

 

https://www.change.o...nd-law-gaypanic



#92
SardaukarElite

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Okay, so that's an established precedent in some states rather than Australian law, but it sounds like it sucks.

 

---

 

Did you mean "most anti homosexual laws" in your  first post?



#93
HuldraDancer

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Well now I'm having flashbacks of the DA2 sim date game on Deviantart (which is a pretty funny game actually) since it does have kind of close to what the OP is asking for. A homosexual power hungry mage LI though  this one is pretty nuts too. 

 

http://delicateroseb...d/24248826&qo=4

(Don't click on Anders he is broken)

 

 

 

Support the idea though, in fact the idea of a ruthless maybe semi crazy in a manipulative way LI is pretty intriguing to me, would like to get one whether in ME or DA.



#94
TheOgre

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Okay, so that's an established precedent in some states rather than Australian law, but it sounds like it sucks.

 

---

 

Did you mean "most anti homosexual laws" in your  first post?

 

I meant one of, I was wondering if I should have used that phrase at all. I was wondering what would have been more appropriate considering.. :/



#95
Serelir

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People are joking about having LIs for every conceivable situation, but I was thinking about AIs the other day and wondering if there will eventually be AI companions in games that can adapt to player choices. Naturally, I'd love to see some spurning happen just to make things difficult for the player.

 

These thoughts occurred to me not because of a DAI romance, but because I wished my companions could remind me where the darned trail is in the Storm Coast instead of letting me get stuck on the side of a mountain in a bunch of boulders yet again. People, stop following me! I have no idea where I'm going!



#96
TheOgre

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I'm not joking, I want a werewolf companion. It hasn't happened yet. He or she can be a both, that is pansexual if you guys are into that stuff too.



#97
Serelir

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Just please make it a werewolf who can scent a trail! It can have sex with whomever is willing.


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#98
berelinde

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People are joking about having LIs for every conceivable situation, but I was thinking about AIs the other day and wondering if there will eventually be AI companions in games that can adapt to player choices. Naturally, I'd love to see some spurning happen just to make things difficult for the player.

 

These thoughts occurred to me not because of a DAI romance, but because I wished my companions could remind me where the darned trail is in the Storm Coast instead of letting me get stuck on the side of a mountain in a bunch of boulders yet again. People, stop following me! I have no idea where I'm going!

AI companions? Artificial Intelligence?

 

It would be possible to script companions to check the quest log and ask "Are you sure you want to go this way?" if you get stuck in a dead end, but that could get cumbersome after a while.

 

But I'm totally going to adapt the bolded part as a new sig.


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#99
Serelir

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It would be possible to script companions to check the quest log and ask "Are you sure you want to go this way?" if you get stuck in a dead end, but that could get cumbersome after a while.

That would be even more annoying than Ser Morris commenting on my unfilled requisitions! 

 

I was having a fantasy moment about the future of games melded with Banksian AIs to create adaptable companions, but you know, all that would never fit on a console (prove me wrong, future coders!)


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#100
berelinde

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(As an aside to Serelir, did you play DA2? There's a banter between Varric and Merrill that cracks me up every time.

 

Merrill: Thank you very much for the help earlier, Varric!
Varric: You made it back to the Alienage in one piece, then?
Merrill: I don't know how I wound up in Darktown. There are just too many corners in Kirkwall.
Varric: Still got that ball of twine?
Merrill: I left it at my house. Don't worry! I won't get lost while we're following Hawke.
Varric: Bring it next time, Daisy. Just in case.
 
Varric knows me too well!)

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