721 réponses à ce sujet

[Evamitchelle]

But he didn't say that.  He described traits as masculine or feminine, without assigning those to men and women respectively.

 

Challenge his definitions, sure, but he didn't take that final step to define people solely by their gender or their gender's expected roles.  In fact, he started out talking explicitly about his feelings.  He thought that characters of specific genders made sense for him, without applying that universally.  I didn't see a claim that the character couldn't "sensibly" be male - just that he enjoyed the game a lot more playing that character as female.

 

As it happens, the very characteristics he describes as being incompatible with his idea of masculinity, and thus incompatible with him playing a male character, are exactly the traits I want in a male character.  So, when I can't have them (as I couldn't in ME), I can't play a male character.  I want male characters to be coolly rational, and aggression, to me, isn't compatible with that.  So a male Shepard didn't work for me.

 

We each have our biases.  But they're ours.  We're allowed to have biases, particularly if we're not trying to make other people abide by them.  And I didn't see Heretic doing that.

 

"I'm sure your boyfriend is aggressive in some situations, it is a masculine trait after all and all men have it to some degree."

"Yes, but 99% of the time the masculine traits are dominant in men while the feminine traits are dominant in women. That's why we assign these traits to masculinity or femininity in the first place. It has nothing to do with stereotypes whatsoever."

 

Those are direct quotes from the last page. How is that not assigning masculine and feminine traits to men and women ? 

 

And the problem here is really not about his feelings regarding the Inquisitor. People wouldn't have objected if he'd simply said that he felt Inquisition played better with a female Inquisitor than a male one. The problem is that he is basically saying that "feminine" men are lesser/weaker than masculine men (repeated mentions of the Inquisitor being "castrated" and "emasculated"), which manages to be insulting towards both men and women at the same time. 

[HuldraDancer]

Female for a while then try to roll a male I say try because I have the hardest time making male faces to something that I'm happy with (I have the same problem with females but more so with males) but I will eventually roll a male unless interests to do so somehow gets killed while playing as a female character.

[Avaflame]

But he didn't say that.  He described traits as masculine or feminine, without assigning those to men and women respectively.

 

Challenge his definitions, sure, but he didn't take that final step to define people solely by their gender or their gender's expected roles.  In fact, he started out talking explicitly about his feelings.  He thought that characters of specific genders made sense for him, without applying that universally.  I didn't see a claim that the character couldn't "sensibly" be male - just that he enjoyed the game a lot more playing that character as female.

 

As it happens, the very characteristics he describes as being incompatible with his idea of masculinity, and thus incompatible with him playing a male character, are exactly the traits I want in a male character.  So, when I can't have them (as I couldn't in ME), I can't play a male character.  I want male characters to be coolly rational, and aggression, to me, isn't compatible with that.  So a male Shepard didn't work for me.

 

We each have our biases.  But they're ours.  We're allowed to have biases, particularly if we're not trying to make other people abide by them.  And I didn't see Heretic doing that.

That may be the case, but that's definitely not how it came across. Looking back, it still doesn't, though I'll admit that some of the posts I had in mind were made by others. I said in this very thread that I couldn't make it through a playthrough of Mass Effect as a female Shepard, because there was something about the character that didn't enable me to play the female character I wanted to. I don't see any problem with that, nor with finding some personality traits inherently masculine or feminine.

Perhaps Heretic is not as articulate as you or I am not as apt at comprehending but there is a mighty difference in what you're saying about playing as a male Shepard and this:

 

DA:I is the only BioWare game I ever played as a female character. I suppose because the protagonist of DA:I is rather emasculated so it feels better to play as a female character than an emasculated male character.

 

They definitively state that the male character is emasculated, which is where I took up issue. I'm not even going to touch on anything said in that back and forth of The Real Housewives of BSN because you've obviously been present in this thread and taken away something different from it than I have, which seems fair to me. No use torturing myself by reading through it a second time. 

[Hellamarian]

I always go female, so... female.

[Excella Gionne]

Female. I always start off as a female character in RPGs where I can choose my own gender. Please do implement like 2 different voice options like DA:I, because voices are crucial. Sometimes, faces demand more than just one voice. I am sure Hale and Meer did not match all of their created Sheps. 

[Clips7]

Always male for me...

[WildOrchid]

Female.

[Vegeta 77]

Always male. Playing female is not my cup of tea.

[Anouk]

Female.

[Torgette]

Maybe, but that's besides the point. My entire point is basically what you just said. The inquisition in DAI is only an inquisition by name. Their role and deeds have absolutely nothing to do with inquisitions.

 

Perhaps you should ask yourself why any developer would sensibly want to make a game where you're the Spanish Inquisition? It's like wanting a WW2 game where you're the Waffen SS.

[SharpWalkers]

First is always male; it's my "me" playthrough. My second playthrough is always female. 

[TruthSerum]

One thing that can't be denied is that MaleShep is a man's man.

I didn't care for the male VA in the ME games but at least he had swagger regardless. Quite unlike the male PC in DAI.
It's encouraging to see the unknown character in the MEA trailer walking towards the camera with some swagger in his step.

If there is any hope of me playing a male PC in MEA he's going to have to carry himself with some actual strength and confidence in his demeanor.
Things like NOT wincing and looking away when somebody gets into your face with an attitude and instead looking them square in the eye wiith a look that says "feel free to bring it but you're not gonna like it how it turns out"

[stysiaq]

Let me start off by saying that personally I HATE just about anything SJW related and the entire state of the world we live in with SJW agendas being pushed in your face at all times. HOWEVER I personally have an affinity for stories with strong female characters.

To me a lot of times they seem more interesting, less cliched' and more emotionally involved. For the longest time I just couldn't get into the Mass Effect series until one day I started up a FemShep character on a whim. I've been hooked ever since.

I just wonder if it will be the same with no Jennifer Hale as the lead in MEA and a different and better VA for the male as well .

I'll probably start up the game as a male just to see what he looks and sounds like but then re-roll a female for my full platythrough.

Which way are you gonna go?

 

Start with not bringing any "SJW" stuff up, that's the best thing to do to make it go away.

I have a knack for playing as a female character in most of RPGs, I'll go with a lady. Seems to me that BioWare writers put more effort to write female-related stuff.

[Scofield]

Let me start off by saying that personally I HATE just about anything SJW related and the entire state of the world we live in with SJW agendas being pushed in your face at all times. HOWEVER I personally have an affinity for stories with strong female characters.

To me a lot of times they seem more interesting, less cliched' and more emotionally involved. For the longest time I just couldn't get into the Mass Effect series until one day I started up a FemShep character on a whim. I've been hooked ever since.

I just wonder if it will be the same with no Jennifer Hale as the lead in MEA and a different and better VA for the male as well .

I'll probably start up the game as a male just to see what he looks and sounds like but then re-roll a female for my full platythrough.

Which way are you gonna go?

Let me start of by saying, I HATE a world that pushes its privileged white hetero agenda on a daily basis on a mass population i like to think knows better

 

That said i will play as both male and female an then play what i deem to enjoy the nost

[stysiaq]

Let me start of by saying, I HATE a world that pushes its privileged white hetero agenda on a daily basis 

 

 

posts like these never fail to amuse me, you forgot the "male" part so 8+/10

[Angry_Elcor]

posts like these never fail to amuse me, you forgot the "male" part so 8+/10

 

Not just that, forgot the s**t-lord part, too. May as well have been endorsing privilege.

[Kel Eligor]

Depends on the voice actor. The delivery of certain lines can really impact the way I view certain characters - while I appreciated both Shepards in ME, I absolutely cannot get behind the american-female voice of the Inquisitor and it destroyed my appreciation for playing as that gender in the game (mainly because the british voice feels awfully out of place for a Qunari). Even Hawke just felt -right- as a male over female because of how delightfully sarcastic his tone was. 

[stysiaq]

Depends on the voice actor. The delivery of certain lines can really impact the way I view certain characters - while I appreciated both Shepards in ME, I absolutely cannot get behind the american-female voice of the Inquisitor and it destroyed my appreciation for playing as that gender in the game (mainly because the british voice feels awfully out of place for a Qunari). Even Hawke just felt -right- as a male over female because of how delightfully sarcastic his tone was. 

 

I feel you, I dropped my female qunari inquisitor after hearing the voice actress. To be honest if you're going to let me pick a race for a character I'd prefer for him/her to be mute instead of having a fixed VA that suits 50% of the possible race picks.

[Robbiesan]

Both.  One for each playthrough.

[von uber]

I was playing Baldur's Gate when I was 10, so I am not sure what exactly old enough to play Mass Effect actually is.  Mommy kept you on a short leash, not allowed to play M rated games growing up?  Perhaps she still does, since you are oblivious to the fact that adults do in fact go back to school to learn new skills and improve their quality of life, something you would know if you weren't stuck in the basement.

 

 

That's really showing how mature you are, there! It was an honest question because School for us ends at 16, but hey, straight with the insults!

[DuskWanderer]

I do like strong characters, male and female. However, I don't think many game designers know how to make strong independent females (and that includes female developers). 

 

When I read a lot of supposedly "strong female characters", they tend to fall into the same categories:

 

1.) Your basic Mary Sue 

2.) "Independent" and desperately lonely woman longing for a man (to be fair, this is how a lot of men are written too)

3.) A nasty super (swear) who is treated as perfect by the author (and the other characters) because she's female (often, she's the only major female, if not the only female at all) in the story. 

 

When it comes to writing a strong female character, I think it should follow the Tiffany test. The woman in question is strong, relatable, with a well-rounded personality, including flaws she must overcome. Then I name her Tiffany, because she's a woman. 

[Feybrad]

Both.

[The Heretic of Time]

"I'm sure your boyfriend is aggressive in some situations, it is a masculine trait after all and all men have it to some degree."

"Yes, but 99% of the time the masculine traits are dominant in men while the feminine traits are dominant in women. That's why we assign these traits to masculinity or femininity in the first place. It has nothing to do with stereotypes whatsoever."

 

Those are direct quotes from the last page. How is that not assigning masculine and feminine traits to men and women ? 

 

You got it backwards. It's the other way around. Masculine and feminine traits are not assigned to men and women respectively, it's the other way around. We assign certain traits as masculine traits because they appear more often and more dominant in men (and vice-versa for feminine traits and them appearing more often in women).

 

Independence, aggression, assertiveness, etc. are considered masculine traits because they're dominant traits in men.

 

Empathy, gentleness, sensitivity, etc. are considered feminine traits because they're dominant in women.

 

Yes, there are always exceptions (but exceptions prove the rule) and no, I'm not saying women can't be aggressive or men can't be sensitive, they most certainly can and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm just saying that these traits appear more often and more dominantly in men and women respectively.

[RINNZ]

I see your point to an extent, but I'd drop it if I were you.