104 réponses à ce sujet

[Mike3207]

You save Ferelden. That's a little bit smaller than the world. 

[Vlada47]

I kinda sympathize with Alistair for not wanting being a king, especially as my Amell Warden, who really doesn't care about nobles and their politics as his own opinion goes by the end of the game (more so in the Awakening), but... If I could give him honest answer to his "What about what I want?" question, it would be pretty much like "People like you and me... we don't get to be happy. We will make our sacrifices so other people don't have to." kinda thing. If it will be better for the people of Ferelden having Alistair (with Anora) on the throne, my Warden or Alistair really don't have a say in this matter.

[sylvanaerie]

You save Ferelden. That's a little bit smaller than the world. 

 

Sheesh, do I really have to explain my thinking?

 

After finishing Origins, I had this feeling of "My PC just saved the world", what could Bioware do to top that?  The archdemon wasn't going to pop a six pack, smoke some cigars and chill on the top of Fort Drakon in it's fuzzy bunny slippers after destroying Denerim.  It was going to move on.

 

It's kind of when an artist creates that one great work of art that defines them early in life.  It sets a precedent that can't be touched in subsequent works.  Even if people enjoy them, the artist knows it's all substandard compared to that first masterpiece that made him famous.

 

IE: I'm thinking Alistair knows he peaked with Origins.  Nothing he does after will ever be as close to that was to epic/memorable.  And maybe he's not comfortable with that kind of 'fame', after ten years having come to resent being known as "that other warden who helped end the fifth Blight" since he isn't the HoF.

[Bondari the Reloader]

In my three playthroughs I've always had Alistair (unhardened) remain with the Wardens, with Anora ruling alone. The main reason is that Alistair really doesn't want to be king, even if he probably wouldn't be as bad at it as he believes. By contrast, Anora wants to remain queen and is competent and beloved by the people. So many of the characters in Origins seem to have their fate chosen for them that I thought it was important that Alistair be allowed to choose for himself the kind of life he wants while allowing Anora to continue doing the job she loves.

 

The second reason (which doesn't apply to you) is that all three of my Wardens romanced him, and since none of them could marry Alistair (two human mages and a city elf) I thought it was better for them to remain with the Wardens together. The mistress angle never really appealed to me, and since my Wardens had good relationships with Anora they felt that they could use their connection with her to make things better for their people (with the added bonus of Shianni's influence for my city elf).

 

I haven't played Inquisition, so I can't comment on how Alistair changes in that game, but from what I remember of his DAII Warden cameo he seemed pretty happy. He even gives Hawke an amulet that belonged to the Warden, implying that they're still friends/together. As others have mentioned, having Alistair and Anora rule together is arguably the best outcome for Ferelden, but I believe that allowing Alistair to remain a Warden with Anora ruling alone is the best outcome for the two characters.

[Neuro]

In my three playthroughs I've always had Alistair (unhardened) remain with the Wardens, with Anora ruling alone. The main reason is that Alistair really doesn't want to be king, even if he probably wouldn't be as bad at it as he believes. By contrast, Anora wants to remain queen and is competent and beloved by the people. So many of the characters in Origins seem to have their fate chosen for them that I thought it was important that Alistair be allowed to choose for himself the kind of life he wants while allowing Anora to continue doing the job she loves.

 

The second reason (which doesn't apply to you) is that all three of my Wardens romanced him, and since none of them could marry Alistair (two human mages and a city elf) I thought it was better for them to remain with the Wardens together. The mistress angle never really appealed to me, and since my Wardens had good relationships with Anora they felt that they could use their connection with her to make things better for their people (with the added bonus of Shianni's influence for my city elf).

 

I haven't played Inquisition, so I can't comment on how Alistair changes in that game, but from what I remember of his DAII Warden cameo he seemed pretty happy. He even gives Hawke an amulet that belonged to the Warden, implying that they're still friends/together. As others have mentioned, having Alistair and Anora rule together is arguably the best outcome for Ferelden, but I believe that allowing Alistair to remain a Warden with Anora ruling alone is the best outcome for the two characters.

 

Good breakdown of your reasoning/motives (and good reasoning itself, haha).  I just finished last night, and I think I might go back and change certain things (Alistair & Anora, mainly), for similar reasons listed.  Thanks for the reply-- cheers!

[Neuro]

** Just finished ** last night!  Wow, what an incredible finale.  I got caught up with a bunch of work the last 3 weeks, so it took me considerably longer than expected (the whole summer, really).  So, here's a rundown of my PT plus some thoughts.  

 

Landsmeet:

- Won Landsmeet by considerable margin

- Alistair & Anora rule jointly (Alistair unhardened)

- Loghain Executed 

Final Battle:

- I (Hugh Cousland) made the US, did not do DR

Miscellaneous + Romance + Epilogue + Choices I enjoyed/feel mattered:

- Romanced Morrigan, broke up w/ her after Alienage (her Ayn Randian self-interest just got to be too much for me there), hitched up with Leliana, but then also gave Morrigan the Golden Mirror, and that re-initiated this romance

- Presented Alistair with the DR, but of course told him I wouldn't go through with it (I just wanted to make sure he knew there was a way out, if he wanted it)

- Morrigan was indeed pregnant at the end of my PT, though I also had the active romance with Leliana

- All companions alive & well, all positive relationships with all companions (Sten's epilogue ending is particularly awesome-- only one man with honor)

 

More Thoughts:

- Such an incredible finish.  I got a good bit of it, but I can only imagine what the ending was like for those who played the game for the first time, back in 2007, and didn't know the story ending, etc.  I still felt terrific finishing it, just such great writing and storytelling.  

- I think, in terms of my Keep going forward and my own 'canon' PT, I might change Alistair & Anora marrying to the latter ruling alone, and Alistair remaining a GW.  The issue here is more that then I shall have to choose between him & Hawke in Inquisition, and I don't want to be faced with that...but we'll see (plus, I love Stroud's mustache and accent, ohmylawd). 

 

- I wish I could go back and not kill Flemeth, as it sort of broke some of my immersion in the game in the first place-- I didn't really want to do it, and, having played Inquisition, it was extra-hard for me to rationalize doing it, as I knew Flemeth's story wasn't what Morrigan believed it to be.  But, my Warden was in love with Morrigan, so I regard it as something he did out of love/in confusion/in that blind state.  

 

- I particularly loved the end where you get to tell Alistair to live and be a great king, and that you'll make the sacrifice.  Man, I love Alistair.  

- I took Dog with me to the Final Battle instead of Wynne, which made things considerably more difficult, but I did so because telling Dog "you be a good boy now, you hear?" was too heartbreaking for me haha, as if our hero knew he was going to his death, and Dog knew it too.  I didn't bring Dog along with me as much during the main story because of the lack of party banter, but I loved the relationship/having a Mabari/all of it.  

 

- Why are the choices we make in the Alienage not a part of Dragon Age Keep?  I don't really get this: rather insignificant choices like Bella owning a tavern, giving a prisoner food, etc. are all listed, but the massive choices like, um, did I choose to let Caladrius sacrifice all the elves to up my constitution a couple points, etc. aren't?  These are choices that definitely define/reveal your Warden's personality and ethics.  This didn't really compute with me-- and btw, I don't think the Bella/Ostagar prisoner choices are 'insignificant,' I just mean they're relatively small/you can miss them entirely, as compared to Alienage choices.  

 

On to Dragon Age II! I've been itching to start, and I began last night with a female, default (no darkspawn blood smear, tho) 2H Warrior Hawke.  I loved Nick Boulton's voicing for Male Hawke, but I dunno, for some reason I really feel the FemHawke, as well as just wanting some gender variety in my PTs/wanting to play through a female-gendered character's eyes.  Loving it thus far.  

[olnorton]

The second reason (which doesn't apply to you) is that all three of my Wardens romanced him, and since none of them could marry Alistair (two human mages and a city elf) I thought it was better for them to remain with the Wardens together. The mistress angle never really appealed to me, and since my Wardens had good relationships with Anora they felt that they could use their connection with her to make things better for their people (with the added bonus of Shianni's influence for my city elf).

As a city elf, you want to keep Anora in power?
The same Anora who was essentially in power when human nobles could just abduct and rape elves without fear of the law.
That's not how I would want my Ferelden to be led.
Shianni would have little to no influence in a human court.
Put softy Alistair on the throne & rule Ferelden yourself as chancellor.
The human nobles are indebted to you, probably fear you, & some may even like you.
You could do far more for your people than Shianni ever could.
And if getting to stay with Alistair is a bonus for you, all the better.
Although my city elf would always choose to have Leliana at her side (or on top)
Her grasp on politics is an added boon for a young chancellor.
Of course if politics is not your cup of tea, and your people aren't worthy of your time, leave the humans to business as usual.

[sylvanaerie]

As a city elf, you want to keep Anora in power?
The same Anora who was essentially in power when human nobles could just abduct and rape elves without fear of the law.
That's not how I would want my Ferelden to be led.
Shianni would have little to no influence in a human court.
Put softy Alistair on the throne & rule Ferelden yourself as chancellor.
The human nobles are indebted to you, probably fear you, & some may even like you.
You could do far more for your people than Shianni ever could.
And if getting to stay with Alistair is a bonus for you, all the better.
Although my city elf would always choose to have Leliana at her side (or on top)
Her grasp on politics is an added boon for a young chancellor.
Of course if politics is not your cup of tea, and your people aren't worthy of your time, leave the humans to business as usual.

 

Softy Alistair dumps the non-noble LI if he's made king.  And she probably doesn't want to have the Mistress ending anyway.

[olnorton]

Softy Alistair dumps the non-noble LI if he's made king.  And she probably doesn't want to have the Mistress ending anyway.

Oh, right. But if he dumps her it wouldn't be a mistress ending.
He would still welcome her to rule Ferelden as Chancellor, but I could understand that if she loved him & he dumped her, then she wouldn't want to hang around him, even if it meant a better life for her people.
I'm even more glad now that I always go with Leliana. She stays true till death & beyond.

[Pee Jae]

Man, going back to DA2 is so jarring after having played DAI for so long. Hawke is so fast! I'm kind of working my way backwards through the series now, after Trespasser. (I've played all 3 games, ad nauseum, ad infinitum)

 

Glad to hear you really enjoyed Origins. I hope (like me) that you'll also enjoy DA2. A lot of people didn't.

[sylvanaerie]

Oh, right. But if he dumps her it wouldn't be a mistress ending.
He would still welcome her to rule Ferelden as Chancellor, but I could understand that if she loved him & he dumped her, then she wouldn't want to hang around him, even if it meant a better life for her people.
I'm even more glad now that I always go with Leliana. She stays true till death & beyond.

 

Softy Alistair dumps her as king.  Hardened Alistair will make her his mistress, and she can still exert influence on him without being married, but a lot of players attach modern sensibility to the arrangement and are disgusted.  From her descriptive of 'they can't marry', I'm assuming she also doesn't like the mistress ending, and doesn't want the break up.  So, warden Alistair is her only option.

[olnorton]

Softy Alistair dumps her as king.  Hardened Alistair will make her his mistress, and she can still exert influence on him without being married, but a lot of players attach modern sensibility to the arrangement and are disgusted.

But if he is King on his own, how is being his mistress any different from what you where before he was King?
I assume she was having pre marital sex with him anyway.

[CavalierToast]

Such an incredible finish.  I got a good bit of it, but I can only imagine what the ending was like for those who played the game for the first time, back in 2007, and didn't know the story ending, etc.

I can only imagine what it was like for those who played Dragon Age:Origins in 2007 as well

 

*cough* considering the game was released in 2009

[springacres]

But if he is King on his own, how is being his mistress any different from what you where before he was King?
I assume she was having pre marital sex with him anyway.

(Edited for serious misreading)

It's a question of social standing.  If Alistair remains a Grey Warden, odds are that no one's going to care who he sleeps with.  Whereas if he's king, even ruling alone there will be (at the very least) rumors about why he's unmarried and who he's seen with.  And from how I'm reading this, it sounds like sylvanaerie's Warden would be quite uncomfortable with that kind of a relationship.

 

It all boils down to what feels right for your Warden.

Modifié par springacres, 15 septembre 2015 - 03:05 .

[olnorton]

Whereas if he's king, even ruling alone there will be (at the very least) rumors about why he's unmarried and who he's seen with.

They would probably just think he was gay (I know I did) & you would expect him to be seen with his Chancellor, the hero of Ferelden

And from how I'm reading this, it sounds like sylvanaerie's Warden would be quite uncomfortable with that kind of a relationship.
 
It all boils down to what feels right for your Warden.

That would be Bondari the Reloaders' Warden, but alright, I'll pay that one.

[springacres]

They would probably just think he was gay (I know I did) & you would expect him to be seen with his Chancellor, the hero of Ferelden


That would be Bondari the Reloaders' Warden, but alright, I'll pay that one.

True on both counts (and misreading #2 of the night for me).  Also, I was reading this from a modern day perspective and I have to say, the mistress option wouldn't appeal much to me as a player, either.

[Xetykins]

Technically, there is no mistress ending because Alistair never got married as a solo king. English is not my first language but isn't the term " mistress" in a romantic context like a side dish for a married man?

So basically, there's only the "girlfriend" and the Queen ending

[Vanalia]

I always thought that sparing Loghain (even just to try because it's original and interesting) was a good idea in a game where you don't romance Alistair. Of course I don't recommand it if you want to pursue the romance with Alistair (king or not).

It goes quite well with the F!Amell play I think (he doesn't want to marry her if she is a mage) and not being a Cousland nor a cityelf helps to "hate less" Loghain I guess.

[olnorton]

Technically, there is no mistress ending because Alistair never got married as a solo king. English is not my first language but isn't the term " mistress" in a romantic context like a side dish for a married man?

So basically, there's only the "girlfriend" and the Queen ending

That is certainly the modern meaning.
When the word first came from French to English in the 14th century it wasn't a pejorative.
It was simply the female form of master.
The term Mrs is an abbreviation of mistress.
At some time in history it changed to mean a kept woman, usually available for consensual sex
but a man didn't have to be married to keep a mistress.
In the dragonage, it may still have had one of it's historic meanings

[Xetykins]

That is certainly the modern meaning.When the word first came from French to English in the 14th century it wasn't a pejorative.It was simply the female form of master.The term Mrs is an abbreviation of mistress.At some time in history it changed to mean a kept woman, usually available for consensual sexbut a man didn't have to be married to keep a mistress.In the dragonage, it may still have had one of it's historic meanings

But in Dragon age we also don't see any other mistresses than the warden. Or.. do we? If we don't then we don't really know of what the term "mistress" in da verse constitutes to.

[olnorton]

But in Dragon age we also don't see any other mistresses than the warden. Or.. do we? If we don't then we don't really know of what the term "mistress" in da verse constitutes to.

True, so you can choose to be offended by the term or not.
I know my warden was Leliana's mistress, she was the one who did all the looting after all.
I just had to look pretty & be on call.

Not the warden in my profile pic obviously.

[sylvanaerie]

But in Dragon age we also don't see any other mistresses than the warden. Or.. do we? If we don't then we don't really know of what the term "mistress" in da verse constitutes to.

I know of at least two in DA.  Vivienne is the mistress of Duke What'shisface.  Leliana can be mistress to the king/queen of Ferelden. 

Perhaps some marriages, as in the case of King Alistair, just wouldn't be allowed in their society.  But people look the other way to whom those in power love.  Certainly it can also be read as a 'kept' woman, but I never thought of Neria that way. She's a powerful mage, and Chancellor to Alistair, ruling in his stead when he's not in Denerim (stick that in your craw, Chantry).

Spoiler

 And certainly not Vivienne, who, for all intents and purposes, considers herself the lady of the Duke's manor.  Leliana is the mistress of my King Cousland, and is introduced as such to the imperial court (even though Anora asked it be kept hush hush).  Either Bioware forgot or there just isn't as much of a stigma attached to the role in Thedas as there is in modern society.  I'm sure if he'd been forced to marry, Dorian would have had a lover on the side.  The heart wants what the heart wants.

 

There is a codex about one of Teagan's earlier family members (a Guerrin) that talks about a gay man and his wife.  She is very understanding of the arrangement he had with his lover, and was good friends to both of them.  Only insisting he didn't live with them to hold down scandal.  When the lover finally dies at ninety, she had his body arranged in the cloak of her husband (who was long dead also) and burned in full honors.

 

And Leliana puts it very well with with my King Cousland

Spoiler

when she says "He married her, but he loves me!"  And looks forward to reuniting with him when the Inquisition is done.  Politics aside, Leliana knows where my Cousland's heart lays.  And so does Neria with King Alistair.

 

Kind of like that moral in the old TOS story where Kirk observes the effect Mudd's women have on men.  "There are two kinds of people.  Those who believe in themselves, and those who don't."  If you carry yourself with pride, know that you are the most important person in the world to your love, then who gives a rat's arse what other people think?  She's the freaking HoF, let someone say something bad about her or Alistair within earshot.

 

I don't mind the mistress ending at all.  Unless you marry him to Anora, Alistair doesn't choose to marry by the time of Inquisition, so for all intents and purposes, his mistress is his 'wife' on all but paper.

[Xetykins]

Well, the warden could well be the hero or the queen of England, however, in the end she's still be a kept woman and a side dish, if Alistair had married someone else. The warden would end up just waiting for him to get away from his family to have stolen time with him. Since that did not happen, I'm quite happy being his girlfriend forever.

Gosh... i hope none of the writers are watching this, and marry Alistair off to someone else in DA4 just for the fan tears..

[Chaos Imperius]

For Rp purpose start with Human male noble best ending you can become king human rogue because in late game with my build if you pm me personaly you can do the game Solo for Gameplay i think rogue dwarf or mage elve for rp good hero romance Leliana become friend with Ali and do wardens dlc mission where you can get commander armor first do redcliffe because its the easiest mission after that go to the cicle tower and after do elves mission and last do Dwarves because hunters can kill every low level team as bad guy romance morrigan to your party get healer,tank,dps healer is wynne,dps leliana/zevran tank ali/shale i can tell you more if you send me message personaly The darkspawn chronicles with the wild witch hunt are best story dlcs

[Bondari the Reloader]

I've been away from the forums for a while, but I guess since so many people are commenting on my post and making assumptions on my behalf I should try to clarify my thoughts, even though I hesitate to do it since this isn't my thread. (Sorry, Neuro!)

 

When talking about the issue of marriage for these characters, I'm thinking of it in terms of Alistair and the Warden having a future together where they are committed to each other (hopeless romantic alert). I'm not looking at it in terms of sex or political influence. The way I saw it when I first played the game as a human mage (and how I continue to see it for the most part), unhardened Alistair becoming king puts his future with a non-HN Warden in jeopardy. I remember a conversation you can have with him (I think after Orzammar?) where he says that he isn't sure if he will be able to continue their relationship if he becomes king, and I honestly thought he was breaking up with the Warden right then. He didn't, but the implication was there that if he became king, he would have to marry a noblewoman and he would end the relationship. Therefore, if my Warden wanted to stay in a romantic relationship with him, Alistair would need to remain with the Wardens. Add that to the fact that Alistair doesn't want to be king, and it's a pretty easy decision.

 

Not having played Inquisition, the DAO player has no way of knowing if/when King Alistair gets married if he doesn't marry Anora. I assumed that he would get married fairly soon, particularly if he was unhardened. It seems like something Arl Eamon would insist on to make sure the royal line was continued. Him still being unmarried by the time of Inquisition is surprising to me, but since my Wardens can't see into the future it wouldn't change any of their minds.

 

Hardening Alistair (or Leliana) doesn't have any appeal for me as a player, so being his mistress isn't really an option for my Wardens, I guess. (I thought you could still convince him if your coercion was high enough, but I could be mistaken). I suppose the completionist in me might do a playthrough like that one day, but that would be the only reason I would. And no, my canon mage Warden would have no interest in being Chancellor if Alistair broke up with her. She was never really interested in Fereldan politics, which is why her landsmeet choices were made based on her opinions of what she thought would be best for Alistair and Anora as individuals. If Alistair dumped her, she would either go back to the Wardens or the Circle and try to avoid him as much as possible. Not saying that any of the other options are wrong per say, but they wouldn't have been right for my Wardens.

 

I hope that clears some things up. I realize I didn't address the elf issue, but to be honest I wasn't terribly invested in that playthrough so olnorton's criticisms are probably valid on that point. That's what I get for playing trusting optimists, I suppose!

 

And congratulations on finishing, Neuro! I'm glad you enjoyed the game. Considering how much discussion we players can have about it so long after it's release, it truly is one of the greats. Hopefully this won't be the last time you play it!