68 réponses à ce sujet

[Terminator Force]

- "Snipers are too OP and no reload cancelling for them in ME:A."

- "Infiltrators should not use the BW"

 

I'm glad you don't work for Bioware, OP. 

 

Of course you are. If I were working for BioWare, we'd all be D-Bowel eating masochist gamers instead of the milk feeding complainers we are now. "More crutch scanner, polly prissy pants?"

 

[Pearl (rip bioware)]

Reload cancelling is cheating.

[Cryos_Feron]

I agree that smart choke is a bit too good, the bonus should be something like 30%. Also, I think shotguns shouldn't be affected by any other accuracy bonuses such as Hunter Mode.

well, since it is per percentage on a very small figure, 50% are not so much.

claymore has accuracy of 10 (if I remember correctly) so it will only get an absolute increase of 5 points.
raider, etc even less.

30% would merely mean a difference of 2 points

[ZoliCs]

Will send a FR then

Oh and, that is sooooooo going to be me when I unlock the Claymore in ME4!!!

 

 

Edit - have some troubles finding you on Origin. Is you ID the same as here?

 

No. Sent you one instead.

[LemurFromTheId]

well, since it is per percentage on a very small figure, 50% are not so much.

claymore has accuracy of 10 (if I remember correctly) so it will only get an absolute increase of 5 points.
raider, etc even less.

30% would merely mean a difference of 2 points

 

It doesn't work like that at all. That value of 10 is for the nice graph on the weapon selection screen, it has zero effect on actualy gameplay.

 

The accuracy bonus you get from smart choke, scope mods, Hunter Mode and Marksman (which starts from 0 regardless of the weapon) is used by the game to lessen the spread of the weapon. At 100% accuracy (e.g. smart choke + AAB Marksman) Claymore is pinpoint-accurate at any range.

 

Smart choke alone, 50% accuracy bonus, has a huge impact on the efficacy of every ordinary shotgun in the game, including Claymore. You should know this from direct experience if you've ever tried the combination.

[Heldarion]

Reload cancelling is cheating.

 

Get out of here, Beerfish.

[OneMore1968]

I think the whole weapon system in the new game needs an overhaul for MP, the balance changes ruined a lot of things to the point they are broken. the trouble is there are other variables in MP that you have to contend with like lag which make some of the mods etc almost useless.

and TSol is only good with SMG or Pistol? eh!? try a Saber, Valkeryie, Phaeston, all effective if you can Shoot accurately.

[LemurFromTheId]

and TSol is only good with SMG or Pistol? eh!? try a Saber, Valkeryie, Phaeston, all effective if you can Shoot accurately.

 

Please explain to me the process that started with your eyes seeing the text I wrote and your brain interpreting that as the meaning of said text. I've been trying to figure it out for the last five minutes, but apparently I just don't have that kind of brainpower.

 

The gist of what I said was that Hurricane is the best weapon for a Turian Soldier. That's it. Raider is the only weapon that can challenge that claim. Typhoon comes close.

 

I said nothing about TSol not being good with other weapons. How could you possibly get that impression? I even wrote that TSol is a dedicated weapon specialist. That kinda implies that he's good with a wide variety of weapons, no?

[Heldarion]

^ I'd imagine Talon is somewhere among the best guns for TSol as well.

[LemurFromTheId]

^ I'd imagine Talon is somewhere among the best guns for TSol as well.

 

Yeah, should've mentioned it along with the Typhoon. Still, not quite as insane as the Hurricane, though someone can certainly find it to be a better fit for their preferences and skillset.

[Deerber]

No. Sent you one instead.

 

Good. Will accept it asap

 

Get out of here, Beerfish.

 

Lol. Did you know that he had the guts to say he never claimed reload canceling is an exploit? Happened over on the ME:A forums. Takes courage to have such a bronze face, really...

 

^ I'd imagine Talon is somewhere among the best guns for TSol as well.

 

 

Yeah, should've mentioned it along with the Typhoon. Still, not quite as insane as the Hurricane, though someone can certainly find it to be a better fit for their preferences and skillset.

 

The Talon on the Tsol means mass murder against Cerberus and Geth. If your aim is good, it's easily just as good as a Hurricane or a Raider. However, it definitely needs more aiming skills than the hurrdurricane, and it also loses a lot of efficiency against Collectors or Reapers, whereas those other two guns will destroy everything just the same.

 

Also worth a mention is the Piranha, which works great, although not as great as a Raider, in my opinion.

 

However, all this only works in favor of Aedolon's argument, as the Talon is another gun that packs far more a punch than it should be, in relation to its weight. Same with the Piranha, really. The fact that the Typhoon, for example, is outshined by any of these guns (and it is, in my opinion, on the Tsol), it's just downright silly.

[LemurFromTheId]

The Talon on the Tsol means mass murder against Cerberus and Geth. If your aim is good, it's easily just as good as a Hurricane or a Raider. However, it definitely needs more aiming skills than the hurrdurricane, and it also loses a lot of efficiency against Collectors or Reapers, whereas those other two guns will destroy everything just the same.

Firstly: I'm not talking about special circumstances (Geth and Cerberus only).

 

Secondly: You're downplaying the importance of aiming skills with Hurricane. Of course Talon is better if you score headshots with it but only spray-and-pray with Hurricane. TSol's accuracy boost means you can make every shot count with that, too. I'd say making each shot count is harder with Hurricane, but it largely depends of what you're used to. From what I've seen, you don't use fast, automatic weapons all that much, so maybe headshotting with Talon is easier for you because of that? I don't want make assumptions here...

 

Thirdly: By my quick calculations, Hurricane with the usual TSol setup has headshot DPS of 5604, Talon 4535. Talon, of course, has the benefit of its shield multiplier, but on the other hand, it suffers from huge overkill - each Talon shot has twice the bullets needed to kill a gold Marauder, for example. Hurricane can switch immediately to the next target after shooting the optimal amount of bullets, but it, of course, loses DPS while switching targets.

 

In other words: yes, Talon may be comparable to Hurricane against Cerb and Geth specifically, but it largely depends on your own skillset. I disagree with the idea that Talon requires better aiming skills, at least if we're talking about maximizing the potential of the weapon instead of just doing reasonably well in a game.
 

Also worth a mention is the Piranha, which works great, although not as great as a Raider, in my opinion.
 
However, all this only works in favor of Aedolon's argument, as the Talon is another gun that packs far more a punch than it should be, in relation to its weight. Same with the Piranha, really. The fact that the Typhoon, for example, is outshined by any of these guns (and it is, in my opinion, on the Tsol), it's just downright silly.

Absolutely.

[Terminator Force]

Lol. Did you know that he had the guts to say he never claimed reload canceling is an exploit? Happened over on the ME:A forums. Takes courage to have such a bronze face, really...

 

Beerfish complaining about RC is his trademark and calling card. I still remember those old BSN Beerfish discussions. But back then I was a pug and didn't know better. Fast forward to more recent times and finally witnessing what one shot weapons in more capable hands with RC can do, and I really find it hard to accept that anything can own a pug battlefield any better.

 

The Talon on the Tsol means mass murder against Cerberus and Geth. If your aim is good, it's easily just as good as a Hurricane or a Raider. However, it definitely needs more aiming skills than the hurrdurricane, and it also loses a lot of efficiency against Collectors or Reapers, whereas those other two guns will destroy everything just the same.

 

That's why when using it on an on host TSol, it actually helps the Talon a lot to slap a scope & stability gear + consumable. Unless you're really that good at countering it's recoil when scoped to maintain every shoot being a headshot.

 

However, all this only works in favor of Aedolon's argument, as the Talon is another gun that packs far more a punch than it should be, in relation to its weight. Same with the Piranha, really. The fact that the Typhoon, for example, is outshined by any of these guns (and it is, in my opinion, on the Tsol), it's just downright silly.

 

 

Tell me about it. Basically defeating the entire purpose of introducing weapon weight in relation to power/cooldown use. Power focus kits should not be able to wield the same dps as a weapon platform while still having max cooldown power focus gameplay on topic of it. That and the fact that weapons like Hurricane work perfect enough on any kit, including weapon platforms, is crazy too. It's also killing the variety in this game and sending more player packing for early retirement instead (both from lobbies always looking the same & players always playing the same thing).

[Deerber]

Firstly: I'm not talking about special circumstances (Geth and Cerberus only).

 

Secondly: You're downplaying the importance of aiming skills with Hurricane. Of course Talon is better if you score headshots with it but only spray-and-pray with Hurricane. TSol's accuracy boost means you can make every shot count with that, too. I'd say making each shot count is harder with Hurricane, but it largely depends of what you're used to. From what I've seen, you don't use fast, automatic weapons all that much, so maybe headshotting with Talon is easier for you because of that? I don't want make assumptions here...

 

Thirdly: By my quick calculations, Hurricane with the usual TSol setup has headshot DPS of 5604, Talon 4535. Talon, of course, has the benefit of its shield multiplier, but on the other hand, it suffers from huge overkill - each Talon shot has twice the bullets needed to kill a gold Marauder, for example. Hurricane can switch immediately to the next target after shooting the optimal amount of bullets, but it, of course, loses DPS while switching targets.

 

In other words: yes, Talon may be comparable to Hurricane against Cerb and Geth specifically, but it largely depends on your own skillset. I disagree with the idea that Talon requires better aiming skills, at least if we're talking about maximizing the potential of the weapon instead of just doing reasonably well in a game.

 

Well, first of all, I know you weren't talking about Cerberus and Geth only, that's why I said what I said later. I just thought making a difference was needed, as the performance of the Talon varies greatly between factions.

 

About the Hurricane and getting headshots... Sure, you can definitely get reliable headshots with it while it's under MM... And so your aiming skills tend to matter in that time frame. But MM has a cooldown. And it so happens that you'll spend 25%? Not sure, making numbers up now, but definitely a noticeable bunch of the game without being able to rely on it. And without MM... Your aiming skills go out the window. That thing can't get reliable headshots beyond very, very short range. Pretty much in-yo-face range.

Also, you are always going to lose some bullets with a hurricane. There's no way around that, no matter how good you are. If you lose slightly more, or slightly less, is often not such a big deal, while with a Talon every shot has to count. That's something I find in general: few shots per magazine, (relatively) low rof guns reward good aim more than high rof, automatic guns. If you missed a couple of bullets with a hurricane you're not going to care one bit. Missing a shot with a Talon is often a heavy mistake.
 

And no, I do use automatic guns quite a bit. I use the harrier a lot, I use the Brophoon, and sometimes the hurrdurricane too. Once in a blue moon. And you know what, the kits I use these guns on tend to be my most lag-resistant ones, also for a good part because I can afford to let lag make my aim sloppier.

 

As for the DPS and overkill calculation, well... It's not like this sort of things can really be analyzed and searched with on paper calculations. Too many variables. The only thing that's gonna tell you what's better is experience. And in my experience, against humanoid targets, a Talon is going to sligthly outperform a hurricane, in the hands of a Tsol. The hurricane's gonna perform vastly better on bosses though, so in the end they kind of even out, I'd say.

(By the way, the Talon might have a huge overkill factor against marauders, but against Phantoms or Dragoons or Pyros it's in the perfectly sweet spot of OHK with very little overkill...)

[valium]

to me, reload canceling doesnt quite seem right, and is grossly unnecessary. I tend to not do it unless I am already moving

[LemurFromTheId]

Well, first of all, I know you weren't talking about Cerberus and Geth only, that's why I said what I said later. I just thought making a difference was needed, as the performance of the Talon varies greatly between factions.

 

About the Hurricane and getting headshots... Sure, you can definitely get reliable headshots with it while it's under MM... And so your aiming skills tend to matter in that time frame. But MM has a cooldown. And it so happens that you'll spend 25%? Not sure, making numbers up now, but definitely a noticeable bunch of the game without being able to rely on it. And without MM... Your aiming skills go out the window. That thing can't get reliable headshots beyond very, very short range. Pretty much in-yo-face range.

Also, you are always going to lose some bullets with a hurricane. There's no way around that, no matter how good you are. If you lose slightly more, or slightly less, is often not such a big deal, while with a Talon every shot has to count. That's something I find in general: few shots per magazine, (relatively) low rof guns reward good aim more than high rof, automatic guns. If you missed a couple of bullets with a hurricane you're not going to care one bit. Missing a shot with a Talon is often a heavy mistake.
 

And no, I do use automatic guns quite a bit. I use the harrier a lot, I use the Brophoon, and sometimes the hurrdurricane too. Once in a blue moon. And you know what, the kits I use these guns on tend to be my most lag-resistant ones, also for a good part because I can afford to let lag make my aim sloppier.

 

As for the DPS and overkill calculation, well... It's not like this sort of things can really be analyzed and searched with on paper calculations. Too many variables. The only thing that's gonna tell you what's better is experience. And in my experience, against humanoid targets, a Talon is going to sligthly outperform a hurricane, in the hands of a Tsol. The hurricane's gonna perform vastly better on bosses though, so in the end they kind of even out, I'd say.

(By the way, the Talon might have a huge overkill factor against marauders, but against Phantoms or Dragoons or Pyros it's in the perfectly sweet spot of OHK with very little overkill...)

 

MM's recharge time (1.85 s) is roughly 20% of its full cycle, but if you can kill a spawn within that 7.8 seconds, you're effectively spending 100% in MM. There's still occasional downtime, of course, but even then good timing and spacing will mitigate the effect - who needs accuracy at point blank range?

 

The aim-reward curve is certainly different between Hurricane and Talon. I wouldn't say Talon rewards good aim more, as Hurricane will always perform better and better as your aim improves, but with Talon there's a definite threshold between doing badly and doing well, i.e. headshotting irregularly and headshotting consistently, that doesn't exist with Hurricane.

 

And yeah, experience certainly trumps numbers and laboratory conditions. I still say Hurricane is, overall, a step above Talon, and even against Cerberus and Geth a solid match at least.

 

As for overkill, well, it still matters when discussing optimal performance. Enemies have a wide range of health and shield values, and you also need to take account the other players who deal attrition damage to the enemies you face. On average you'll lose about half a shot per enemy you kill. With Hurricane that's insignificant, with Talon - not quite. You can manage that to some degree by being selective about what you kill, of course.

[Quarian Master Race]

At least on the quarksman, the Talon doesn't impress me nearly as much as either the Raider or Hurrdurricane as to how fast it can murderize mooks and bosses alike. I think I may even put it behind the Piranha and Carrier (ammo issues aside). Its biggest strength in relation to Hurrdurricane seems to be rapidly killing tougher shielded humanoids like Phantoms, Pyros, Hunters, possessed captains etc, but the SMG is hardly bad at that anyway unless you're on host and the enemy is a Phantom.

Saber's better than all of them though, because it just is.

[Miniditka77]

I agree that smart choke is a bit too good, the bonus should be something like 30%. Also, I think shotguns shouldn't be affected by any other accuracy bonuses such as Hunter Mode.

 

I think Smart Choke should only give half the accuracy boost when hip-firing, and you would have to ADS or shoot from hard cover to get the full accuracy boost.  This could make reasonable sense, as the "smart choke" could adjust its accuracy in a "smart" manner by sensing whether to optimize for long or short range based on the user's firing position.  If it gives the same accuracy bonus at all ranges, it's not a "smart" choke at all, it's just a choke.

 

EDIT: And I agree, accuracy bonuses shouldn't affect shotgun spread.  They kind of half-a$$ed the shotgun accuracy processing on this game.