240 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

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I see two possibilites.

 

One

This is a stand alone game with Bio trying something new. The new is :

1. Showing off the FB3 engine with current graphics hardware.  Also, remember that the PC high-end graphics hardware outshines the PS4. So, I'm also expecting the PC version to take advantage of that fact.

2. Story wise, I anticipate the typical three ACT story arc... intro, conflicts and resolution... the end

3. A SP and MP cross-over game play not for the sake "can we do it?" but as a necessity to get some form of superiority over the enemy.

 

 

Two

ME:A is designed from the get go to be another trilogy. Same as above but the resolution is just a temporary reprieve.

 

 As to "bad endings", I hope the designers will include loss of some squad mates due to

1. Unforseen event(s)

2. A hard choice

3. Stupid selfish choice.

 

or

 

4. Loss of an important  human controlled sector that will make human survival that much harder in ME:A 2

 

Unfortunatly, I fear that the core design is already cast in stone and I hope the minor plots can be tweaked to include some of our ideas.

 

One)

If they do this:  "3. A SP and MP cross-over game play not for the sake "can we do it?" but as a necessity to get some form of superiority over the enemy." It will be off my buy list.   I don't care if they have MP but I do not want to be forced to play it in order to achieve something in the single player game and I'm pretty sure they won't do it.  ME3 had it for a bit, until they fixed it and every other game they have done with MP options could be ignored if you don't like playing on line games.

 

I agree with you on the 3 acts.  But it would be nice if they had a couple of endings depending on your choices through out the game, tragic is fine for one ending,  but there needs a rejoice ending to balance it out.

 

While I don't expect this, personally I still enjoy what they did with ME2  because of the many ways I can end it.   I have only had everyone survive a couple of times because it's a lot more fun, for me, to just send whoever I think should be able to do the job and see what happens.   LI has died a few times, survived a few times; didn't have a LI a few times.  Crew however died once and never again.  I love it.

 

DAO was good,   Was not a fan of the DR for female warden, but even with that, since the others were decent romance options and Zev grew on me, so I still enjoyed the game no matter how I played it.

 

I am also still enjoying DAI.  And will admit that if I'm going to be replaying a game a lot, I can do that with a survive ending -Star Wars with fireworks -  easier than one that is filled with tragic angst.  Bought and played FA3 back in 2009 and was ready to pitch it, when I found out about BS, got it and have played it off and on ever  since.

 

Two)

I really hope they don't do a series, unless it's in the style of DA with each game focusing on a new character facing problems that are the unexpected results of the previous games.  I just don't have confidence that they will be able to carry the main character over to a new game without changing them.  

 

I am hopeful for this game.  Cautiously hopeful.     

[Big Bad]

I wouldn't be surprised it its ends up similiar to DAI ending. 

So it will be abrupt, boring and utterly lackluster?  Sounds like an improvement over ME3!  I'll take it!

[mopotter]

Tragedies are great endings. Why do you like hollywood happy ending BS so much? Life is tragic.

And right there you have the reason I like happy ending to be an option along with the tragic one.  

 

Life is tragic.  I play a video game, read books or watch a movie to escape all the stuff going on in the real one.    

[Steelcan]

And right there you have the reason I like happy ending to be an option along with the tragic one.  
 
Life is tragic.  I play a video game, read books or watch a movie to escape all the stuff going on in the real one.

not all of fiction needs to be a happy feels train that never challenges any notions in the audience

[mopotter]

I would count the Mass Effect 1 Paragon Ending as a good Ending.

So would I.  I loved ME1.  And I think ME2 was great with the different options for the ending.  

 

ME3 well I played it around 3 times on the 360. and then bought the series for the PC; added THE MOD to give me endings that worked.  destroying the threat to humanity and die haveing your name put on the wall or live and put Andersons name on the wall.

[mopotter]

not all of fiction needs to be a happy feels train that never challenges any notions in the audience

Agree, and I have no problem if they have a tragic ending, as long as they have a celebratory one too.  I like choices.

[dreamgazer]

Agree, and I have no problem if they have a tragic ending, as long as they have a celebratory one too.  I like choices.

The presence of a happy ending option removes the need for a tragic one, though, or at the very least greatly diminishes the value of it.

[Iakus]

Agree, and I have no problem if they have a tragic ending, as long as they have a celebratory one too.  I like choices.

Choices?  In a choice-based narrative game?

 

That's a dangerous idea, mo

 

The presence of a happy ending option removes the need for a tragic one, though, or at the very lest greatly diminishes the value of it.

 

Only if you didn't want a tragic end to begin with.  Otherwise they are equally valid.

[themikefest]

If the game has multiple endings, I like to see everything from a good ending to a bad ending.

[Iakus]

If the game has multiple endings, I like to see everything from a good ending to a bad ending.

You'll take Artistic endings and like it!  

[Felya87]

The presence of a happy ending option removes the need for a tragic one, though, or at the very least greatly diminishes the value of it.

 

Why? is just a choice like any other. Like choosing a LI.

 

Why taking away to who like one thing the other just for such flawed way of thinking?

 

I want both options. I want the tragic, and the happy ending. And I would like some different bittersweet too. I don't care how much I have to work. But I want my happish ending. (and for happy, I just need my protagonist and LI alive. I need little.)

[dreamgazer]

Only if you didn't want a tragic end to begin with.  Otherwise they are equally valid.

Disagreed. There's a positive correlation between degrees of tragedy and failure.

Alas, nothing in the MEverse can be looked at as truly tragic. Even the Refuse ending, the closest thing to it and to a FailShep ending, aids in the defeat of the Reapers in the next cycle. Tragedy would be the Reapers entering through the Citadel relay. Tragedy would be Shepard dying before blowing the Collector Base. Tragedy would be the continuation of the cycles for millions more years.

Witcher 3's ending is another prime example. People debate over whether two of the central ending paths are more appropriate, but very, very few make a case for the third, and it's because of the fail-state nature of it.
 

If the game has multiple endings, I like to see everything from a good ending to a bad ending.

I do too, but there's a difference between exploring all options and making concrete decisions about moving forward with the narrative.

[mopotter]

The presence of a happy ending option removes the need for a tragic one, though, or at the very least greatly diminishes the value of it.

Why?   I can understand someone who hates tragic endings not doing it but there are others who hate happy endings who will pick tragic over happy.  Options, in my opinion, are good.   And if I have a game with options I'm going to do some or all of them. 

 

DAO I sacrificed to save the others; Alistair died to save the others, I did the DR even though I don't care for it.  I became Queen, adviser and mistress.  Alistair became king, Loghan died and lived as a warden.  He did the DR.  The only thing i choose not to do was have Alistair leave in a funk.  My choice but I know there are others who enjoyed this option.

 

ME2 had options where you could save everyone, kill almost everyone or anywhere in between.  ME2 is one of my favorite games because of this.  I love saving everyone, but I've only done it a couple of times.  However, knowing I can do it when I'm depressed or sad, lets me try out all the other options available.  

[dreamgazer]

ME2 had options where you could save everyone, kill almost everyone or anywhere in between.  ME2 is one of my favorite games because of this.  I love saving everyone, but I've only done it a couple of times.  However, knowing I can do it when I'm depressed or sad, lets me try out all the other options available.

And every single permutation of ME2's ending leads to successful completion of the designated tasks and to the destruction/obtainment of the Collector Base. There's no "tragedy" there; even the non-canon FailShep isn't actually tragic, but a victory.

[Glockwheeler]

Were it up to me, I'd have just ended ME3 with Shepard smashing down on the console to fire the Crucible. Though I'd probably also cut the being trolled by Harbinger part of the beam run and find another way to get Shepard fatally injured. 

 

I always felt that Javik should have been the "hero" smashing down on the console.

[mopotter]

Then we have a different idea about what tragic means and more than likely will never find common ground. Or maybe your talking just about the ending and I'm talking about the whole feel of the game.

 

I found walking through the ship and seeing the coffins rather sad and watching people melt a bit tragic.  Going down and talking to Ken without Gabby there, very sad.  Watching Jack defend Miranda and then be picked up and carried away by the seeker swarms made me tear up, they didn't like each other yet Jack saved her.

[Iakus]

Disagreed. There's a positive correlation between degrees of tragedy and failure.

Alas, nothing in the MEverse can be looked at as truly tragic. Even the Refuse ending, the closest thing to it and to a FailShep ending, aids in the defeat of the Reapers in the next cycle. Tragedy would be the Reapers entering through the Citadel relay. Tragedy would be Shepard dying before blowing the Collector Base. Tragedy would be the continuation of the cycles for millions more years.

Witcher 3's ending is another prime example. People debate over whether two of the central ending paths are more appropriate, but very, very few make a case for the third, and it's because of the fail-state nature of it.
 

 You are conflating failure and tragedy.  They are not the same.  You can "win" a hollow victory that means nothing to the player (the big failure of ME3) WInning can still feel like failure.  And tragedy can seem worth the price for victory.

 

Just as my sig says, some victories are simply not worth the cost.

[dreamgazer]

Then we have a different idea about what tragic means and more than likely will never find common ground. Or maybe your talking just about the ending and I'm talking about the whole feel of the game.
 
I found walking through the ship and seeing the coffins rather sad and watching people melt a bit tragic.  Going down and talking to Ken without Gabby there, very sad.  Watching Jack defend Miranda and then be picked up and carried away by the seeker swarms made me tear up, they didn't like each other yet Jack saved her.

Yeah, there's a difference between tragic and sad, so we'll have to part ways in the conversation.

The emptiness you feel walking around not seeing certain people is always accompanied with the fact that you were triumphant.
 

You are conflating failure and tragedy.  They are not the same.

They are indeed interconnected.  
 

You can "win" a hollow victory that means nothing to the player (the big failure of ME3) WInning can still feel like failure.  And tragedy can seem worth the price for victory.
 
Just as my sig says, some victories are simply not worth the cost.

"Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival." - Winston Churchill

Sufficed to say, I disagree to an extent. At least in how it connects with ME3's shipped ending.

[Farangbaa]

Because things in real life are tragic enough already, so it's nice to have happy, uplifting endings once in a while.

And this is the reason Americans get the childish version of a lot of movies.

Like this one: http://www.imdb.com/...ternateversions

[TruthSerum]

I know one thing for sure. The best trilogies save their cliffhanger ending for the second installment, not and I repeat NOT the first installment in the series.

(Assuming MEA is a trilogy of course)

[TruthSerum]

And this is the reason Americans get the childish version of a lot of movies.

Like this one: http://www.imdb.com/...ternateversions

This might sound a bit arrogant but American culture is about winning. We don't like losing and we don't like losers. (I'm speaking in general terms here)

Even if the main character dies in the end he still better win.

[Iakus]

I know one thing for sure. The best trilogies save their cliffhanger ending for the second installment, not and I repeat NOT the first installment in the series.

(Assuming MEA is a trilogy of course)

I have no interest in being a captive audience yet again.

[Joe-Poe]

Tragedies are great endings. Why do you like hollywood happy ending BS so much? Life is tragic.

Which is why I don't want it in My "Fantasy Life" (Books, Games, Movies, etc.).

[Drone223]

The presence of a happy ending option removes the need for a tragic one, though, or at the very least greatly diminishes the value of it.

Indeed, choosing a sub-optimal ending is just basically shooting yourself in the foot there's no reason to pick that particular ending.