240 réponses à ce sujet

[Valkyrja]

I have no interest in being a captive audience yet again.

 

How did you get through ME1 and ME2 and the first 99% of ME3?

[goishen]

Yeah but who wants all endings to be tragic all the time?

 

A tragic ending is not a great ending just because it's tragic in and of itself. A movie can end tragically and still be a big POS, just as a movie can have a great ending and still end on a high note. 

 

 

Right, but I think what he's saying is that we should take Hollywood and flip it.  In other words, make moves and TV shows that are tragic in nature., and have very few "happy ending" movies.

[BabyPuncher]

And right there you have the reason I like happy ending to be an option along with the tragic one.  

 

Life is tragic.  I play a video game, read books or watch a movie to escape all the stuff going on in the real one.    

 

You know, I sympathize with how you're feeling, but this sort of sentiment really does more harm than good.

 

You're basically admitting your opponents are right. Life sucks, and you want happy endings to make you feel better about how horrible everything is. They're the smart and mature ones, you're the one reduced to whimpering for your escapism.

 

That's not the kind of position you want to be in.

[BabyPuncher]

ME3's ending wasn't dark. It was stupid. Up until anderson's scene and you bleeding out, has anyone been against the game ending right there (followed by a victory epilogue)?

 

Yes, that would have been moronic.

[Iakus]

How did you get through ME1 and ME2 and the first 99% of ME3?

...by playing the game?

[Computron2000]

Yes, that would have been moronic.

 

 Indeed, those against such an ending would be moronic

[mopotter]

You know, I sympathize with how you're feeling, but this sort of sentiment really does more harm than good.

 

You're basically admitting your opponents are right. Life sucks, and you want happy endings to make you feel better about how horrible everything is. They're the smart and mature ones, you're the one reduced to whimpering for your escapism.

 

That's not the kind of position you want to be in.

 

Well, if all i wanted was a Happy Ending, I'd concede that you might have a point, and then say nope still disagree,    But I'm not looking for a single happy ending, I'm looking for more than a bad one as in 2 or more endings with varying degrees of optimism for the future..  Past BW games like KOTOR; JE, ME2, DAO all gave me both without hesitation and I'd rather they do this again than just one ending.  

 

And really, I don't think of any other person here as an opponent, just people who see a game differently than I do.  I'll keep my position, It fits my personality just fine.  Handle real life problems one way, cope with the bad and enjoy the good,  and a video game problems another. Kill evil and romance the kind heroic bastard, cowboys, Jedi and funny rogues.     

[mopotter]

Right, but I think what he's saying is that we should take Hollywood and flip it.  In other words, make moves and TV shows that are tragic in nature., and have very few "happy ending" movies.

If that is what he's saying, I think he must:want movie people to go broke.  Maybe he has funds in video games or owns a book store, All those people who like The Avengers, Skyfall; Fast and Furious, Pirates of the Caribbean; and Frozen      would play video games or read books. They  could read The Count of Monte Cristo, Harry Potter and To Kill a Mocking Bird.  I always wanted to own a book store, maybe when I retire. 

 

Of course there was also the Titanic and Toy Story 3, I heard that was rather tragic, both  money makers.  

 

    

[Kimarous]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to see the different types of endings available almost like school grades.

 

A+ = Golden Ending (Ultimate Ideal Good Ending)

A = Good Ending (not perfect, but still ideal)

C = Bittersweet Ending (fair amount of failings / loss, but still hopeful)

D = Tragic Ending (day is won, but at a terrible cost)

F = Bad / Failure Ending (the bad guy wins)

 

"Uh, where's the B ranking?"

 

B is the rank that I think a lot of people overlook... the mixed area between the "Good" ending and the "Bittersweet" ending: the basic "Ending." Not overly cheery and perfect, not melodramatic and painful. People died, but nobody you cared about. It's how I view endings like "Loghain makes the sacrifice (and the player isn't a "Oh Hero of the River Dane, I read your book and THE FEELS!" person)", Mass Effect's ending regardless of the council's status, or Fallout 3's "send in a companion who's immune to radiation" ending (thanks, Broken Steel DLC).

 

Whatever happened to that? The plain old "neutral" ending?

[mopotter]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm starting to see the different types of endings available almost like school grades.

 

A+ = Golden Ending (Ultimate Ideal Good Ending)

A = Good Ending (not perfect, but still ideal)

C = Bittersweet Ending (fair amount of failings / loss, but still hopeful)

D = Tragic Ending (day is won, but at a terrible cost)

F = Bad / Failure Ending (the bad guy wins)

 

"Uh, where's the B ranking?"

 

B is the rank that I think a lot of people overlook... the mixed area between the "Good" ending and the "Bittersweet" ending: the basic "Ending." Not overly cheery and perfect, not melodramatic and painful. People died, but nobody you cared about. It's how I view endings like "Loghain makes the sacrifice (and the player isn't a "Oh Hero of the River Dane, I read your book and THE FEELS!" person)", Mass Effect's ending regardless of the council's status, or Fallout 3's "send in a companion who's immune to radiation" ending (thanks, Broken Steel DLC).

 

Whatever happened to that? The plain old "neutral" ending?

 

I was always a C student in HS because I didn't have to work very hard to get it. College moved me up to A and B because I liked the classes I took, well most of them.  But I can't say I want my game results to be based just effort. 

 

I'd really like more than one ending, because some people seem to want their character to die and I have no problem with that, but I don't want every character I make to die because I can't see any reason to play it over if every time I play my character or someone I like is dead.   -Looking at you FA3, yes thanks dlc BrokenSteel.  But if we have one main objective and one ending, give us more than one way to achieve it which I think ME1 and 2 did nicely.  

 

I want options on getting to the story resolution. based on personal choices, is my character out for herself or is she trying to help as many as she can.  I don't even mind a LI dying or my character dying, if I can save them in another game and whatever I do makes sense. Thinking of Virmire here.  Whoever I left behind understood the reason and whoever was saved asked why.  Still heard up every time I played but it worked.

 

KOTOR - Sith or Jedi either one is possible and either one is a valid choice, though Sith die alone often by their apprentice  and I prefer to have my apprentice work with me.  .

 

What I liked about ME 1 and 2, one of the things anyway, was we had an objective, take down Saren and then Sovereign; take down the Collectors and that group  but we could do it in a couple of ways.  

 

Most of my Shepards are polite, trying to save as many people as possible, a diplomat able to get people working together.  Quite a few were gray, making choices depending on the circumstances, actually my favorite even if I had trouble with Tali/Legion and Ash/Jack.  And then one was ruthless going directly for Saren and get answers with force not words, never forget the goal.  

 

I liked this ability a lot and in ME3 I lost that rude or gray feeling.  

 

I also think ME3 gave me the grade feeling with the War Assets.  The guide book indicated high ems (4000) = A+ "best" ending for the destroy option, but no matter how high my war assists were Shepard was a charred body and someone used the Jedi mind force to know he was alive, so it was a grade I wouldn't have bothered working for.  

[KaiserShep]

Right, but I think what he's saying is that we should take Hollywood and flip it. In other words, make moves and TV shows that are tragic in nature., and have very few "happy ending" movies.

Well, seems kinda late. Happy endings aren't exactly the Hollywood or TV angle lately, save for maybe those based on comics. But it doesn't matter. It doesn't really make it better necessarily, unless people really loved the Matrix Revolutions' ending.

[Iakus]

There wasn't going to be any "good" endings in ME3. It would be unrealistic if it did. ME3 had endings that were realistic, given the circumstances and the stakes.

 

Just seems like people wanted the option to have Shepard destroy the Reapers without affecting anything else. Life returns to normal, and people pick up the pieces after the war. The ultimate ending.

 

Essentially, Bioware gave you this:

 

C = Bittersweet Ending (fair amount of failings / loss, but still hopeful)

D = Tragic Ending (day is won, but at a terrible cost)

F = Bad / Failure Ending (the bad guy wins)

 

Option C was expanded upon in the extended ending. The music at the end of the original implies things being hopeful, not hopeless. The extended version extended the hopeful music over to the breath scene.

The problem is, even with the extended endings, the cost still felt too high.  If the ending feels hollow because of what you are forced to do to "win" it's not a victory, even a bittersweet one.  For a lot of people there was no "C" ending.  It starts at a D (or even a D-minus) and goes down from there.

 

And not the least of which because Shepard outright dies in almost every outcome.  Not that Shepard shouldn't have died in some outcomes.  But the opportunity to keep Shepard alive even in headcanon was very very small.  Sorry "hopeful music" wasn't nearly enough.  And Bioware really should have known that.

 

What gets forgotten in the defense of the endings is that the galaxy has changed even before the ending outcomes.  Billions of people were dead, whole worlds scoured.  Even allies of Shepard unavoidably died over the course of the war.  Life was not going to be the same even if the Crucible turned the Reapers into soap bubbles.  Even having the relay network down for a comparatively short time was going to change the face of the galaxy with the disruption it would cause.  There was no need to infect the galaxy with Red, Blue, or Green space magic to frak things up even more.

[Indigenous]

There wasn't going to be any "good" endings in ME3. It would be unrealistic if it did. ME3 had endings that were realistic, given the circumstances and the stakes.

 

What part of this series was realistic?

 

The reason why ME3 ended the way it did was because ME2 on reflection was a terrible game. If ME1 was the beginning of the story and ME3 was the ending then ME2 was the middle part of the story, which is where all the information on how to stop the reapers should have come but it didn't. With that in mind the guys developing ME3 had the immense task of providing enough information on the reapers to make defeating them a possibility while also bringing the series to a close. ME3 was almost a standalone game.

 

ME3 was leading up to the colourful choices at the end, from the beginning of the game. Shepard would have never have been able to defeat the reapers unless he was allowed to. He was always outmatched. So the series would have benefited greatly from an additional game to expand just how the reapers could be defeated.

 

The tragic endings were in keeping with the obvious artistic vision of the game. Bioware built up the reapers so heavily throughout the series that the idea that they could easily be destroyed without some 'feels' would have been laughable.

[Degrees1991]

There is a difference between a bad ending and a tragic ending. Hmmm so Witcher went that way I saw it coming tbh especially my 2 ending.

[Killdren88]

I don't mind earning a happy ending. Taking the next step going out of your way in competing side missions and tough optional bosses.

[Valkyrja]

To get the ideal ending you have to...complete the side content you paid for? I think I would be doing that anyways if I like the game.

 

Mass Effect was already rife with this design approach that disguised "investments" as "choices" and it was to the detriment of the series as choosing between success and failure isn't much of a choice at all.

 

Nor is it very interesting.

[Halfdan The Menace]

Tragedies are great endings. Why do you like hollywood happy ending BS so much? Life is tragic.

Some folks can't get over it.

[RatThing]

I think endings of linear stories (movies or series) should not be used as a template for RPG games with the objective to let you shape the story. The ending should represent the way you played and the ideology you followed. There should neither be a perfect ending (ME3 tried that with synthesis) nor a complete tragedy (refuse --> simply pointless). Instead it should focus on the objective you seek and the inevitable sacrifices that come with that. The ending should be part of shaping the story. One Game that I think was very good in this regard is Fallout:New Vegas.

 

Btw. how was DAI's ending? First game after the ME3 ending drama, might give me some clues about how the MEA ending will be. I'm pretty damn sure the protagonist survived this time (or at least can survive).

[Iakus]

I think endings of linear stories (movies or series) should not be used as a template for RPG games with the objective to let you shape the story. The ending should represent the way you played and the ideology you followed. There should neither be a perfect ending (ME3 tried that with synthesis) nor a complete tragedy (refuse --> simply pointless). Instead it should focus on the objective you seek and the inevitable sacrifices that come with that. The ending should be part of shaping the story. One Game that I think was very good in this regard is Fallout:New Vegas.

 

 

So much this.

 

I still can't believe Bioware thought that was a good idea.

[Dantriges]

The tragic endings were in keeping with the obvious artistic vision of the game. Bioware built up the reapers so heavily throughout the series that the idea that they could easily be destroyed without some 'feels' would have been laughable.

 

The tragedy is that your final guide explaining you "how will this end" was the biggest mass murderer in the history of the galaxy, full of so many runtimetime errors and faulty logic, the geth would label its code as a weapon of mass extinction if it entered into the consense.   A bittersweet philosophical ending that makes you think about it is fine unless the holes are so big you could fly the entire reaper fleet through it.

[RatThing]

So much this.

 

I still can't believe Bioware thought that was a good idea.

 

I was referring to the OP with my first setence. I don't think Bioware went down that route completely, even though they tried to give you the perfect ending. There are still possibilities to define your character and shape your story, as limited as they might appear to someone.

[Iakus]

I was referring to the OP with my first setence. I don't think Bioware went down that route completely, even though they tried to give you the perfect ending. There are still possibilities to define your character and shape your story, as limited as they might appear to someone.

And I actually think the OP has a point.  "Dark and tragic" is an in thing now.  So Bioware decided to chase it and give us "bittersweet" endings no matter how we played the trilogy.  that Synthesis was supposed to be the "perfect" ending only serves to demonstrate that.  That ending was not only imperfect, but not even very popular among a crowd of very imperfect endings.

 

Yeah we have (extremely) limited opportunities to define our character and shape our story, but the endings only shows us how little Bioware cared about that.  The dissonance between how we got to play our story and the endings we got from it can be quite telling.

[RatThing]

The ME3 ending gave me more possibilities to define my Shepard than ca. 90% of the game before.