1016 réponses à ce sujet

[Majestic Jazz]

I wrote about this months ago...

 

They are all role-playing games in some form. Discussion is more or less over.

 

Discussion about TW3 being an RPG, yes. Discussion about the hope that ME:A is nothing like DAI? No.

[TruthSerum]

Not to disagree with the statement about DAI success completely but I would take into consideration first DLC sales. One thing is to sell your game - with a good PR and no competition (at launch) it was not that hard. Another thing is to keep the attention. JoH sale was not that great, was it? And look at the forums and presentations: all news about DAI you really have to dig up, like EA does not care to announce anything about DAI publicly. There was nothing on E3 about DAI. And main forum on BSN now is MEA, like DAI is an old news nobody cares about. And it's less then half a year after game release! For comparison - remember for how long ME3 was a top game? Constant news, DLC one after another, a lot of discussions... 

Mb DAI is a success but EA certainly does not push that success and it does not feel like a big success. 

 

This is a very good and well thought out post.  I agree with all of it. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Discussion about TW3 being an RPG, yes. Discussion about the hope that ME:A is nothing like DAI? No.

I doubt he was referring to the original topic.

[LinksOcarina]

I doubt he was referring to the original topic.

 

No not at all.

 

But at this point it's just a mess of a topic anyway. 

[Valkyrja]

It was a John_Sheppard thread. It was **** to begin with.

[Elhanan]

Pause and tactical options does not define a rpg. CDPR defines TW3 as an Action RPG and so does the major review media outlets.

Geez, you guys will say anything to diminish the fact that TW3 is doing better than DAI.

To clarify: I do not care if TW3 is doing better or worse than DAI, as they are different games; can play one, and not the other.

[Lawrence0294]

[Majestic Jazz]

It was a John_Sheppard thread. It was **** to begin with.

 

Not really as he is not the ONLY one who shares the hope that DAI has LITTLE influence on the development of ME:A. He is just more vocal but not the only one. Neither am I.

 

At the end of the day, DAI has its fanbase, that is clearly seen even in this thread. However, you cannot deny the FACT that there is a legion of Bioware fans who were very frustrated by the concepts and ideas that DAI brought to the table such as limited cutscenes and MMO-style multiple zone gameplay. Are there people who liked that? Hell yeah, but there is also a large faction of those who hope that DAI is a game that Bioware never reverts back to in terms of style and execution. Just because you disagree with the premise of the thread does not mean that the thread has no grounds for discussion because this IS a concern for many fans and threads like this is NOT the first time it happened. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I do, actually. Means we'll see more from CDPR, and more from the action-RPG genre in general.

Here's hoping they actually make a good RPG with Cyberpunk 2077.

[Majestic Jazz]

 

 

Here's hoping they actually make a good RPG with Cyberpunk 2077.

 

 

It depends on the style. We do not know if Cyberpunk 2077 will have the same gameplay approach as Witcher 3.

 

However, with the success TW3 has had, I doubt CDPR would completely ignore the many praises of the game. We shall see though. I personally love the open world, mature themes, and emtional storytelling that TW3 had. If CP2077 can do this, then I will no doubt love the game. 

 

However I doubt we will hear anything new until 2017 or so as CDPR wants to ride out the TW3 success as long as they can....and I don't blame them. It is clearly the better Action-RPG out now in terms of sales and review scores so they will milk TW3 for as long as they can. 

 

Hopefully ME:A sells way more than TW3 so that Bioware can reclaim their throne back from CDPR. To do that, it must NOT be like DAI in terms of:

 

- Lack of cutscenes

- Fetch Quest

- Dull villain

 

Also ME:A needs to look at TW3 in terms of how to have player choices affects the overall story. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It depends on the style. We do not know if Cyberpunk 2077 will have the same gameplay approach as Witcher 3.

 

However, with the success TW3 has had, I doubt CDPR would completely ignore the many praises of the game. We shall see though. I personally love the open world, mature themes, and emtional storytelling that TW3 had. If CP2077 can do this, then I will no doubt love the game. 

 

However I doubt we will hear anything new until 2017 or so as CDPR wants to ride out the TW3 success as long as they can....and I don't blame them. 

I doubt it will be similar to The Witcher franchise, merely because they are very different things. The Witcher franchise is based off a series of books in magical medieval times and as such is based around a set protagonist. Meanwhile the Cyberpunk franchise is based off a table D&D series of a distopian future and as such is all about the character being your character. Hopefully since CDPR seems to realize this, and have the creator of the Cyberpunk franchise working with them they will be able to give it its own identity rather that "futuristic Witcher". Which is good, since I love the Cyberpunk genre but hated the Witcher games so would be sad if it fell into the same things I hate about the Witcher games. 

 

That said, the stuff you mentioned will most likely be in it. Open world(all RPGs seem to be aiming for this now), mature themes(since it isn't part of the Cyberpunk genre unless it is in a dystopia ), and emotional storytelling(since this character will be 'your' character rather than a set protagonist). 

 

Most likely, since they stopped all production of Cyberpunk 2077 in order to finish The Witcher 3.

[Majestic Jazz]

I doubt it will be similar to The Witcher franchise, merely because they are very different things. The Witcher franchise is based off a series of books in magical medieval times and as such is based around a set protagonist. Meanwhile the Cyberpunk franchise is based off a table D&D series of a distopian future and as such is all about the character being your character. Hopefully since CDPR seems to realize this, and have the creator of the Cyberpunk franchise working with them they will be able to give it its own identity rather that "futuristic Witcher". Which is good, since I love the Cyberpunk genre but hated the Witcher games so would be sad if it fell into the same things I hate about the Witcher games. 

 

That said, the stuff you mentioned will most likely be in it. Open world(all RPGs seem to be aiming for this now), mature themes(since it isn't part of the Cyberpunk genre unless it is in a dystopia ), and emotional storytelling(since this character will be 'your' character rather than a set protagonist). 

 

Most likely, since they stopped all production of Cyberpunk 2077 in order to finish The Witcher 3.

 

And if those are in the game, then I am fine as those are things that made TW3 such a great game for myself at least. One thing I can count on with CDPR is that they aren't going to hold back and be politically correct in their approach to storytelling. In a setting that CP2077 will be in, the vibe needs to be dark, gritty, and mature just like Bladerunner and Deus Ex. Again, we won't find out until at leas 2017, maybe late 2016. 

 

Until then, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided will just have to hold me off.

[TruthSerum]

stop it please just stop it, no game will compete with skyrim numbers thats like saying someone set sales expectations of cube world to minecraft numbers it will not happen skyrim is a fluke Fallout will not sell half of what skyrim did, its lighting in the bottle using skyrim as the metric for success is like using warren buffet as the metric for wealthy, acually its more then that its saying anyone who doesent make warren buffet money is a failure

 

I'm not saying that DAI should have done Skyrim numbers. I'm saying that Skyrim has proved that the high fantasy wrpg market is huge and there is a LOT of money to be made and a lot of sales to be had if a company like EA/BW does things right. 

 

Lets take Battlefield as an example. There is no way that Battlefield is going to out do CoD in sales. No way at all, but it competes. It makes a respectable showing of it numbers wise as direct competition to CoD. Skyrim sold over TEN TIMES the numbers of DAI. Or to put it another way. DAI has sold less than TEN PERCENT of the numbers that Skyrim has. That's not an acceptable showing against your direct competition. 

 

My point is that if BW had done things right they COULD HAVE made a respectable showing of things. (7m-9m units) With all of the money and hype and the considerable budget that I am sure was spent on the game it should have sold more BECAUSE THE MARKET IS THERE AND EA LOVES MONEY like a mother loves her first born.  

 

Leading up to release you literally could not turn on the tv or your computer without seeing a commercial for DAI. With that kind of push behind it the game should have sold like gold plated hotcakes covered in liquid diamonds. But it didn't because BW didn't get it right. 

[Majestic Jazz]

I'm not saying that DAI should have done Skyrim numbers. I'm saying that Skyrim has proved that the high fantasy wrpg market is huge and there is a LOT of money to be made and a lot of sales to be had if a company like EA/BW does things right. 

 

Lets take Battlefield as an example. There is no way that Battlefield is going to out do CoD in sales. No way at all, but it competes. It makes a respectable showing of it numbers wise as direct competition to CoD. Skyrim sold over TEN TIMES the numbers of DAI. Or to put it another way. DAI has sold less than TEN PERCENT of the numbers that Skyrim has. That's not an acceptable showing against your direct competition. 

 

My point is that if BW had done things right they COULD HAVE made a respectable showing of things. (7m-9m units) With all of the money and hype and the considerable budget that I am sure was spent on the game it should have sold more BECAUSE THE MARKET IS THERE AND EA LOVES MONEY like a mother loves her first born.  

 

Leading up to release you literally could not turn on the tv or your computer without seeing a commercial for DAI. With that kind of push behind it the game should have sold like gold plated hotcakes covered in liquid diamonds. But it didn't because BW didn't get it right. 

 

What specifically do you think Bioware did not get right?

[Valkyrja]

Not really as he is not the ONLY one who shares the hope that DAI has LITTLE influence on the development of ME:A. He is just more vocal but not the only one. Neither am I.

 

At the end of the day, DAI has its fanbase, that is clearly seen even in this thread. However, you cannot deny the FACT that there is a legion of Bioware fans who were very frustrated by the concepts and ideas that DAI brought to the table such as limited cutscenes and MMO-style multiple zone gameplay. Are there people who liked that? Hell yeah, but there is also a large faction of those who hope that DAI is a game that Bioware never reverts back to in terms of style and execution. Just because you disagree with the premise of the thread does not mean that the thread has no grounds for discussion because this IS a concern for many fans and threads like this is NOT the first time it happened. 

 

The problem is less the premise of the thread and more the person making it. Some of us are quite familiar with this poster and his behavior and have a feeling that this thread was more about providing him with another platform to rage on about Dragon Age rather than an actual discussion.

 

Anyways I am perfectly fine with people expressing concern over the "exploration" focus of this game when both of BioWare's previous games that had this, DA:I and ME1, were severely flawed and bloated with filler.

[Shady Koala]

I'd personally prefer the mass effect series to stay within its story driven narrative. If ME:A was to implement exploration as a main focus, I'm confident they won't just copy and paste from DA:I. 

[Majestic Jazz]

I'd personally prefer the mass effect series to stay within its story driven narrative. If ME:A was to implement exploration as a main focus, I'm confident they won't just copy and paste from DA:I. 

 

Lets be honest, if the leaks are to be true, then ME:A will have many "features" from DAI such as a wartable style feature. Again, these are just unconfirmed leaks and Bioware is going to be tight lip until around December of this year so we have a LONG time to speculate. 

 

I would not be surprised if EA/Bioware initially planned for ME:A to release early spring 2016 but due to the feedback from DAI, they need more time to add/change things so that they don't repeat the same mistakes as they did with DAI. It is just kind of odd that we still know NOTHING other than the setting regarding ME:A. When Mass Effect 1 was announced October 2005, we knew more then about ME1 at that stage than we do about ME:A and when ME1 was announced, it still had about 25 months until the game was released. We are about 18 months away from ME:A's release and still still do not know the gameplay style of the game.

 

Bioware is REALLY keeping this close to their chest.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

And if those are in the game, then I am fine as those are things that made TW3 such a great game for myself at least. One thing I can count on with CDPR is that they aren't going to hold back and be politically correct in their approach to storytelling. In a setting that CP2077 will be in, the vibe needs to be dark, gritty, and mature just like Bladerunner and Deus Ex. Again, we won't find out until at leas 2017, maybe late 2016. 

 

Until then, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided will just have to hold me off.

Well, they should be politically correct since it is the future. There will be new groups to discriminate against. 

 

I'd prefer it not being as bad as The Witcher when it comes to being dark and gritty. Even in other stories of the Cyberpunk genre, there was a beacon of light hidden in the shroud of the dark and gritty. Either in the story, like the one ending of Bladerunner where it literally ends with a "they lived happily ever after", the world, like Ghost in the Shell where while a distopia hidden within an utopia it was at least trying to be better, or in some of the characters, like in Deus Ex: Human Revolution with Faridah Malik, a character who was a genuinely good person.

[TruthSerum]

What specifically do you think Bioware did not get right?

 

Huge boring (but good looking) open world filled with tediously boring things to do.

 

Combat so milquetoast it should be boxed and sold as a breakfast cereal. They literally took mmo style mouse clicking controls and mapped them onto a controller. 

 

Uncompelling protagonist with a bland personality that was softer than a newly fluffed pillow.

 

Ugly character designs with an art style that made it extremely hard to create a character that didn't look like they were beat with an ugly stick.  

 

Hilariously unoptimized Frostbite engine.  

 

Taking a fantastic multiplayer idea and executing it with all of the flair and excitement as a trip to the dry cleaners. 

 

A dearth of cinematic presentation.

 

Tactical view was a complete train wreck. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. There were some things wrong with the game. 

[Elhanan]

Not really as he is not the ONLY one who shares the hope that DAI has LITTLE influence on the development of ME:A. He is just more vocal but not the only one. Neither am I.
 
At the end of the day, DAI has its fanbase, that is clearly seen even in this thread. However, you cannot deny the FACT that there is a legion of Bioware fans who were very frustrated by the concepts and ideas that DAI brought to the table such as limited cutscenes and MMO-style multiple zone gameplay. Are there people who liked that? Hell yeah, but there is also a large faction of those who hope that DAI is a game that Bioware never reverts back to in terms of style and execution. Just because you disagree with the premise of the thread does not mean that the thread has no grounds for discussion because this IS a concern for many fans and threads like this is NOT the first time it happened.

Name them; this legion of so-called fans....

Rhetorical; another example of mixing fact with myopic, biased, subjective opinion.

[Majestic Jazz]

Huge boring (but good looking) open world filled with tediously boring things to do.

 

Combat so milquetoast it should be boxed and sold as a breakfast cereal. They literally took mmo style mouse clicking controls and mapped them onto a controller. 

 

Uncompelling protagonist with a bland personality that was softer than a newly fluffed pillow.

 

Ugly character designs with an art style that made it extremely hard to create a character that didn't look like they were beat with an ugly stick.  

 

Hilariously unoptimized Frostbite engine.  

 

Taking a fantastic multiplayer idea and executing it with all of the flair and excitement as a trip to the dry cleaners. 

 

A dearth of cinematic presentation.

 

Tactical view was a complete train wreck. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah. There were some things wrong with the game. 

 

 

Ouch!

 

 

Now I will admit, I thought it was cool that Bioware had two voices for each gender and will be interesting if they did the same with ME:A such as having a "deep voice" and a "normal" voice. But I doubt that. I also liked how we were able to customize our Skyhold and give it our own theme. On my first (and only playthrough thus far), my Skyhold was a Chantry/Andraste theme. Hopefully ME:A has a similar but deeper feature in which we can customize our ship. If the leaks are to be true, then this feature will indeed be in the game to a certain extent. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

No, Original SIn is - turn based combat.

Then Wasteland 2.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I imagine that's the point. Saying they aren't RPGs at all is wrong and frankly elitist

I'm not saying it's not an RPG. I'm saying it's an action game.

I like RPGs, but I dislike action games. So I don't play action games. TW3 is an action game.

BioWare's only ever made one RPG wherein action combat was mandatory, and that was Jade Empire.

[Shady Koala]

 

Bioware is REALLY keeping this close to their chest.

 

It was pretty quiet for DA:I for a long time too regarding any major information.

 

(I'm assuming the ME team is under the same marketing team structure as DA)

 

During the DA:I marketing period they released information with teaser leaks at first, then the demo presentation at E3 2014, then a whole load of nothing for months then began to bombard us with information on locations, companions, combat and such, but also gave us inconsistent information in which they would have to repeatedly clarify to appease fans. 

 

I doubt they want to face the constant backlash from passionate fans again (more so than usual ^^).

Releasing too much information too soon leads to over-hype which is never good anyway, always leads to some disappointment in the end.

 

I'd be fine if they keep tight lipped until next year, so they can actually show us features that are a core and implemented mechanic, that won't just disappear at the drop of a hat without so much as a mention.

[slimgrin]

I'm not saying it's not an RPG. I'm saying it's an action game.

I like RPGs, but I dislike action games. So I don't play action games. TW3 is an action game.

BioWare's only ever made one RPG wherein action combat was mandatory, and that was Jade Empire.

You're stretching here. Mass Effect for all its pausing requires a lot of twitch skill.