1016 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

But Witcher 3's use of side quest to allow the player to better explore and understand the world was better done compared to DAI's which is the point and what I hope ME:A does better at.

Better done? Sure, I'll agree to that. But the chateau, dwarven tomb, and other substantial quests in DAI still accomplish those things quite well.
 

Again, here is another TW3 sidequest that is more in line with a companion quest in DAI which is in my opinion better executed.
 
https://www.youtube....h?v=D0WyM2VDMxA

And the companion/advisor quests achieve similar things involving emotion and expanding on what we know of the world, in comparison to both this video and the previous one you posted.
 

I repeat, ME:A would be better off the less it is like DAI.

You can keep on repeating it, and we can keep on poking holes in your black and white logic.

[AresKeith]

You can keep on repeating it, and we can keep on poking holes in your black and white logic.

 

Black and white logic with blue text

[Majestic Jazz]

Better done? Sure, I'll agree to that. But the chateau, dwarven tomb, and other substantial quests in DAI still accomplish those things quite well.
 

And the companion/advisor quests achieve similar things involving emotion and expanding on what we know of the world, in comparison to both this video and the previous one you posted.
 

You can keep on repeating it, and we can keep on poking holes in your black and white logic.

 

Really? Last time I checked I haven't been the only one in this thread during the last few replies who has agreed that DAI was low in terms of the quality of open world exploration and side quest. Just go back to what Han and the Penquin said. 

 

I'll say it again.....

 

ME:A will be better off the less it is like DAI.

[Sylvius the Mad]

However people who played Fallout 3, and Elder Scrolls games do not play for the tight narrative and cinematics, but for the sandbox "Create your own adventure" type gameplay.

This is also why I play BioWare games, and they have mostly let me do it. Only ME2 and DA2 have really interfered with this approach.

This playstyle you describe as being somehow alien to BioWare games is something that was historically supported by BioWare, and generally permitted by BioWare.

And I generally prefer BioWare's games to Bethesda's games, because BioWare does combat better (I'm talking about DAO and earlier), and because their settings have more detail and bettrr written characters.

[dreamgazer]

Really? Last time I checked I haven't been the only one in this thread during the last few replies who has agreed that DAI was low in terms of the quality of open world exploration and side quest. Just go back to what Han and the Penquin said.

You haven't, but that broad perception is flawed, something we've already discussed many pages back ... and something which several also agreed with me on. And no, dismissing them as "fanboys and fangirls" doesn't work.

[Majestic Jazz]

This is also why I play BioWare games, and they have mostly let me do it. Only ME2 and DA2 have really interfered with this approach.

This playstyle you describe as being somehow alien to BioWare games is something that was historically supported by BioWare, and generally permitted by BioWare.

And I generally prefer BioWare's games to Bethesda's games, because BioWare does combat better (I'm talking about DAO and earlier), and because their settings have more detail and bettrr written characters.

 

And I respect that. But like you said, "historically" that has been their approach but the industry is moving forward with an emphasis on cinematic and tighter narrative. Hell, even Bethesda is going the way of a voice protagonist/cinematic dialog with Fallout 4. 

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

DA:I introduced good ideas that can be improved on for other DA games.

There are few ideas that can be taken from any DA game that would make Mass Effect any better.

They wrote better paraphrases in DAI. DAI is BioWare's only voiced protagonist game where I felt fairly confident that I was in control of my character.

[ApocAlypsE007]

When ME:A will be out you will all be praising DA:I and sh**ing on ME:A. I call it.

[Sylvius the Mad]

And I respect that. But like you said, "historically" that has been their approach but the industry is moving forward with an emphasis on cinematic and tighter narrative. Hell, even Bethesda is going the way of a voice protagonist/cinematic dialog with Fallout 4.

But they're also making the game moddable, so we can fix that.

Bad features are far more forgivable in a moddable game. Unmoddable games need to be good out of the box.

[DragonBears]

I will add to that. When I looked through the skeleton head for shards, I realized I had to go back to that same area I was at a moment ago.

 

There is a certain hubris in games sometimes - "we've developed all this content, and you WILL play it!"

 

For me it's usually "why do I have this dorky follower that I hate, that won't go away and I can't kill".

 

Not to mention the difficulty of having a main character (Shep) who's unavoidable voice makes me want to invert him into a latrine and flush...

[AtreiyaN7]

Lol, you still hating on the ME1 UC worlds even though I just proved that you cannot compare the two?

 

Again, I can complete the main story in ME1 without ever having to land on a UC world or do a UNC mission. The same cannot be said about DAI because you need power and influence to progress the story and you get that by doing those fetch quest. Or you can simply buy power and influence but riddle me this.....where do you get enough gold to be able to afford it? Well.....you have to do fetch quest in order to make money as wartable missions doesn't yield much. OR you can just sell unwanted equipment and supplies to vendors for a nice yield and gold but again......where do you get that unwanted equipment and supplies? You have to go out and explore which leads you back to doing fetch quest.

 

Just get over it, ME1 had fetch quest on UC worlds but one could 100% ignore them and still complete the main story. The same CANNOT be said about DAI. 

 

You know what? This schtick of yours is tiresome, and it is blatantly untrue that doing all the sidequests in DA:I is somehow mandatory for a player to finish the game. At the end of my fourth playthrough, I now have 280 UNSPENT power left after having done almost everything that you can do in the game. All I have left is Doom Upon the World, which costs zero power.

 

I think it's safe to say that with 280 UNSPENT power, it's crystal clear that a great many (or maybe all) of the side quests that I did were NOT mandatory in any way and that a player can, in fact, safely avoid doing the majority of them (or maybe all of them - not that I'm interested in testing that). You are being completely irrational about this issue and are using pretzel logic in your posts to justify your position as far as I'm concerned.

 

Seriously, you don't have to do a single fetch quest while farming mobs, if your preference is to kill them for loot and gold drops. Just because objective x is nearby doesn't mean you actually have to get yourself involved with the fetch quest (that's your choice or not).

[Majestic Jazz]

But they're also making the game moddable, so we can fix that.

Bad features are far more forgivable in a moddable game. Unmoddable games need to be good out of the box.

 

True, it is apparent that Bethesda is mod friendly and that they actually encourage gamers to make them and use them. Hell, they are even allowing the consoles to import mods made by PC gamers (X1 will get this feature first however).

 

DAI has proven to be very mod-unfriendly and hopefully with ME:A, things would be different. 

[Han Shot First]

Perhaps it was my solo days upon SWTOR that allowed me the experience to skirt encounters, but one is not forced into the side content. Most rifts are clearly marked, and well illuminated if close in order to avoid them. Shards must be actively sought; easily skipped if one chooses to do so. Camps could be missed, though I do not wish to do so personally. And other side content besides the Bottles are generally avoided with ease.

If one simply wants to play the MQ, many posters here have stated it can be done. If one wishes to explore, that is another option. Personally, prefer the latter method, though I do not choose everything; only most of it.

 

I have to disagree with the optional content in DA:I being entirely optional. Sure, maybe you could really work to skirt around the rifts that lie directly in your path...but it is designed in a way to block your path to force you to deal with it before moving on. And if you are fighting things on the way to the your quest objectives you need to set up those camps along the way to restock potions.

 

TW3 is designed better in that are really no obstacles on the roads, and most quest objectives can be reached by them.

[AresKeith]

DAI has proven to be very mod-unfriendly and hopefully with ME:A, things would be different. 

 

Doubt it, it's on the Frostbite engine 

[The Elder King]

True, it is apparent that Bethesda is mod friendly and that they actually encourage gamers to make them and use them. Hell, they are even allowing the consoles to import mods made by PC gamers (X1 will get this feature first however).
 
DAI has proven to be very mod-unfriendly and hopefully with ME:A, things would be different.

I'd say there's 1% chance of the happening. It's really better to not expect much mod-related from Frostbite.

[Elhanan]

I have to disagree with the optional content in DA:I being entirely optional. Sure, maybe you could really work to skirt around the rifts that lie directly in your path...but it is designed in a way to block your path to force you to deal with it before moving on. And if you are fighting things on the way to the your quest objectives you need to set up those camps along the way to restock potions.
 
TW3 is designed better in that are really no obstacles on the roads, and most quest objectives can be reached by them.

The rifts are marked clearly on the map most of the time, and are easily seen if one comes across a random one. It does not take much work at all to avoid them. Spiders and other random encounters are much more difficult to avoid, but these are not usually side quests. And I choose to add the camps, but in theory one could skip them.

[Sylvius the Mad]

True, it is apparent that Bethesda is mod friendly and that they actually encourage gamers to make them and use them. Hell, they are even allowing the consoles to import mods made by PC gamers (X1 will get this feature first however).

DAI has proven to be very mod-unfriendly and hopefully with ME:A, things would be different.

I doubt it. Despite recent claims that there are simply too many technical hurdles to overcome in order to mod Frostbite, DICE is making no visible effort to mitigate this at all. If there's middleware we need to emulate, tell us what it is - someone on the Internet will have relevant knowledge we can use. Or if they can't tell us what the middleware is, give us a general idea what it does.

But we get nothing. As a result, DICE's earlier claims that FB was intentionally unmoddable, and they were proud of that, look increasingly salient.

[Sylvius the Mad]

TW3 is designed better in that are really no obstacles on the roads, and most quest objectives can be reached by them.

That's better to you? That sounds awful. It's contrived and gamey.

[Majestic Jazz]

That's better to you? That sounds awful. It's contrived and gamey.

 

I personally think it is gamey to purposely have random obstacles laid out in front of my path to an objective just to serve as some sort of "challenge" in getting to my objective. To me that makes sense in a platformer like Uncharted or Tomb Raider, but not an open-world game. This is what makes the world in Witcher 3 as well as the cities in GTA games and the world in Red Dead Redemption such better to explore and traverse and even more immersive. They feel like a living and breathing world and not a "videogame level". 

 

If anything, DAI's open worlds were the gamey ones.

 

But to each their own I guess. 

[von uber]

The stance on modding Bioware game's is odd. It's been proven to increase game sales and longevity / interest. It's very puzzling.

[Majestic Jazz]

The stance on modding Bioware game's is odd. It's been proven to increase game sales and longevity / interest. It's very puzzling.

 

Is it a Bioware stance or Electronic Arts stance? I mean, I am not a modder but wasnt KOTOR, ME1, and DAO mod friendly? What about NWN?

[The Elder King]

The stance on modding Bioware game's is odd. It's been proven to increase game sales and longevity / interest. It's very puzzling.

Well, I don't think They can do much without DICE/EA's consent.
Though They did choose Frostbite on their own...

[The Elder King]

Is it a Bioware stance or Electronic Arts stance? I mean, I am not a modder but wasnt KOTOR, ME1, and DAO mod friendly? What about NWN?

I don't think ME is much more moddable then DAI, based on What I saw about ME2-ME3, and they're on the same engine.
DAO and NWN Are on another league.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Is it a Bioware stance or Electronic Arts stance? I mean, I am not a modder but wasnt KOTOR, ME1, and DAO mod friendly? What about NWN?

NWN was basically built as a mod platform. The game was actually built with the mod tools that came with the game.

And KotOR used basically the same engine (so did DAO). Oddly, the official stance on KotOR was that modding wasn't allowed (forum threads about it got closed) because LucasArts opposed modding, but since it was built on the same engine as NWN modding didn't prove difficult.

DAO came with a toolset, as well.

[AlanC9]

I'm not sure it makes sense to talk about a "stance" here. Bio likes mods fine, but won't go very far out of their way to enable modding.