1016 réponses à ce sujet

[pdusen]

Not to be an azz, but those types of RPGs are becoming a thing of the past. Like I mentioned with Fallout 4, even Bethesda is going the way of a tight scripted narrative. I mean, it will still be a "your own adventure" type game, still, don't go into it thinking that it will be a similar experience like Fallout 3 or any other "old school" silent protagonist RPG.

 

Its funny because Bioware banked hard on the Skyrim "neutral" protagonist with DAI and now Bethesda is moving away from the neutral protagonist and something more refined, perhaps like a Commander Shepard or Hawke, but with more freedom. Now I expect with DA4, Bioware will move back to the Shepard/Hawke approach and I believe the ME:A protagonist would be more in line with Shepard in terms of actually having a personality. 

 

Times are changing....

 

Except that there's really no evidence (yet) that Fallout 4 will have a significantly tigher narrative than 3 did. Certainly nothing in the E3 gameplay showed that it was any tighter; the intro to Fallout 3 was exactly as tight as anything we saw there. The fact that the protagonist is voiced isn't really proof of that.

[TruthSerum]

 not really even wanting to see Asari or Turrians.

 

 

wut??

[Elhanan]

wut??

Am looking forward to seeing new races, and not the majority of the old ones; Krogan and maybe the Vorcha as exceptions.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I imagine your response on this view is to say that the very fact that the knowledge is unknown justifies its perservation, because its net utility could always be greater than the sum total cost of the suffering that led to it (assuming the suffering is immoral), and so you're always sacrificing the utility maximizing outcome by destroying knowledge regardless of whether, as a question of fact, any one item (or cummulative set of items) justifies suffering in the present.

The value of knowledge might always be less, as well. Since we have no information at all about that future knowledge, it doesn't make sense to include it in our calculation (unless we can somehow resolve the equation while keeping the variable intact).

And of course, any suffering that lead to the research we already have is a sunk cost, so it doesn't make sense to consider it, either.

Furthermore, unless I think it likely that future researchers will even consider the possibility that I will be the one deciding whether to keep their research, I don't see why I would expect my decision to have any prescriptive force.

Unless the research, on its own, is somehow a threat to me personally, I keep the research. Every time.

[Sully13]

Im just hopeing they can pull off Dr Zachery Smith.

[Medhia_Nox]

There's another one. Asking me whether to keep or destroy research will always produce the same response, regardless of what the research is.

Keep it. Always keep it. Why destroy knowledge?

 

You cannot destroy knowledge - but you can be the arbiter of how that knowledge is disseminated.

[The Elder King]

Am looking forward to seeing new races, and not the majority of the old ones; Krogan and maybe the Vorcha as exceptions.

I think in some conference last year They kind of confirmed asari and salarian.
While I don't think every MW specie will be in, I doubt We'll see only three. And Vorcha are more likely To be left behind then Turians.

[von uber]

Am looking forward to seeing new races, and not the majority of the old ones; Krogan and maybe the Vorcha as exceptions.

So not only leaving the setting but the races too? Isn't that basically a new IP?

[Elhanan]

I think in some conference last year They kind of confirmed asari and salarian.
While I don't think every MW specie will be in, I doubt We'll see only three. And Vorcha are more likely To be left behind then Turians.

Vorcha could bring back Mark Meer; an amazing VO talent, "I should go! I should go! I should go!" " Do I really sound like that?", "I am open to some feedback here...."

[Sylvius the Mad]

You cannot destroy knowledge - but you can be the arbiter of how that knowledge is disseminated.

You can't destroy facts, but you can destroy awareness of those facts, and that's what knowledge is.

[TheN7Penguin]

Tbh, I just want Quarians. I don't really care about anything else.

 

Tbh, if there is exploration... I just hope there'll be something THERE to explore. Not just mountains and grass. Because um, that'd be boring.

[KaiserShep]

You cannot destroy knowledge - but you can be the arbiter of how that knowledge is disseminated.

If you nuke the Space Library of Alexandria, it'd take quite a while to get even half of its info back, if it can all be reclaimed at all.

[DragonBears]

True, it is apparent that Bethesda is mod friendly and that they actually encourage gamers to make them and use them. Hell, they are even allowing the consoles to import mods made by PC gamers (X1 will get this feature first however).

 

DAI has proven to be very mod-unfriendly and hopefully with ME:A, things would be different. 

 

Bioware certainly *used to* understand the value of a mod community; they specifically built Neverwinter Nights to be data driven with simple text data files, and documented model and animation data formats. They also produced a toolset to author and compile new adventure content, and as a result, you can still find links to10k+ mod items for NWN1, which is considerably more than the 3k+ mods for Bethesda's Morrowind, released at the same time.

 

The difference is, Bethesda have continued to provide and improve their tools, and have had 25k+ ( Oblivion ), 30k+ (Fallout3/NV) and 40k+ (Skyrim) mods. Bioware, on the other hand have made less and less effort. Only DA:O had any modding support ( a single toolset release, never updated ), and that produced a few thousand mods. But there is essentially nothing much available for DA2/DAI/ME1/ME2/ME3, because neither official tools nor information were particularly forthcoming.

 

DICE ( makers of the Frostbite tech that will power ME:A ) are also on record as having reservations about mods, although the actual reservations seem to vary, and have differing degrees of credibility. Most likely, there is a belief in EA as a whole that mods are bad for their DLC business, and not enough belief in their value at DICE/Bioware to challenge that view.

 

The mod community will still find a way to make a few cosmetic changes in DA:I and ME:A, but formal mod support in Bioware's Frostbite 3 games is probably about as likely as getting Linux and Mac versions.

[Sartoz]

Am looking forward to seeing new races, and not the majority of the old ones; Krogan and maybe the Vorcha as exceptions.

 

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Oh, please.. the Vorcha are just cannon fodder with no redeeming values... easily manipulated bipeds. The Krogan is slave to his biological imperatives. Makes good cannon fodder as well but is an excellent melee character.

 

On the other hand, both Asari and Solarians have the Biotic and intellectual skills necessary for survival in a new hostile galactic cluster. Add, a Krogan as your squad battle tank and a Human to provide leadership, carving out your own 'empire' from a hostile territory becomes that much easier.  Throw into the mix new friendly and enemy aliens plus a pinch of lost tech from ancient civilization(s) and you have a cauldron of very good stories... provided Bio invests in those stories and not get sidetracked by forcing the player into exploring many pretty planetary baubles.

[Sartoz]

   Yeah. I doubt the system will be much different from ME3.

 

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No reason to mess with a proven game mechanic. Oh, wait... I forgot about DAI's PC new and "improved" keyboard and mouse controls. 

 

MEA will be a shooter and I, like you, also  expect the soldier class to switch weapons.  But, who knows?

[Farangbaa]

The argument, generally, is that somehow the means by which knowledge is produced might 'taint' the product.

Which makes me rather angry, to be honest.

Millions of people suffered and by destroying the research/collector base, you make all their deaths in vain.

Destroying the Collector Base or the Genophage research is immoral. Period.

edit: woah, layout screw up.

[DragonBears]

The only narrative that matters to me is the emergent narrative that arises from my choices.

The authored narrative (what most people call "the story") is merely part of the setting's flavour text.

 

Agreed, that's why I like playing RPGs, computer of otherwise; the game should be what I make of it, and should support a wide variety of play choices. I feel that I should be able to go where I want, do those things I wish to, choose whether or not to take or interact with companions. Completing the main quest line is not important if it does not fit in with the experience I choose.

 

That's one of the reasons I like Bethesda worlds. I don't much like their combat mechanics, but at least the worlds support some genuine roleplay choice, ( even without mods ) and are generally self-consistent. Not so different to the way Bioware's own Baldur's gate allowed you to roam quite freely in its world, should you choose to.

 

Somewhere along the line, the majority of RPGs seem to have become formulaic and/or very restrictive. I am particularly disheartened with button-mashing mechanics, continual intrusion of unavoidable cut-scenes and poorly-differentiated character development paths. But I'd definitely have a few choice words to deliver to the inventors of mini-games and quick-time events as well.

 

My wish is that RPG developers spend less of their resources on aiming for photo-realism and more on making their game worlds appear lived in, rather than just be a static cast of characters awaiting your appearance to deliver their scripted parts. But, quite honestly, upgrading the graphics is much less challenging.

[DragonBears]

DA:I?  I hope it's nothing like the previous Mass Effect trilogy! 

 

Ditto.

[LinksOcarina]

Which makes me rather angry, to be honest.

Millions of people suffered and by destroying the research/collector base, you make all their deaths in vain.

Destroying the Collector Base or the Genophage research is immoral. Period.

edit: woah, layout screw up.

 

Welcome to moral choices, where such decisions are easy to make in hindsight, but in the context of the world and the bigger picture they are presented makes it much more difficult.

 

Case en point, do you support Mages or Templars at the end of Dragon Age II, after seeing the atrocities of both sides tenfold by the time Anders takes action?

 

The best moral choices are always the ones which are still, in some form, immoral or difficult due to the circumstances. That is what makes BioWare pretty good, it's not just a binary choice, it's a binary choice with actual weight to them.

[DragonBears]

I kinda want to see the Krogan again.

 

Lol - The Krogan charge! Stupidly fast in ME1, make-a-cup-of-tea slow in ME2. Did they get it right in ME3 finally?

[Farangbaa]

Welcome to moral choices, where such decisions are easy to make in hindsight, but in the context of the world and the bigger picture they are presented makes it much more difficult.
 
Case en point, do you support Mages or Templars at the end of Dragon Age II, after seeing the atrocities of both sides tenfold by the time Anders takes action?
 
The best moral choices are always the ones which are still, in some form, immoral or difficult due to the circumstances. That is what makes BioWare pretty good, it's not just a binary choice, it's a binary choice with actual weight to them.

Check my game icons. I've never played DA2.

But that's not the same kind of decision. The genophage research/Collector base are of a totally different order. You're not killing anyone or anything by keeping either of them, but you're 100% sure to rob the galaxy of knowledge it could very well use if you destroy them.

There's no decision here, at all, in my not so humble opinion. You keep them.

[LinksOcarina]

Check my game icons. I've never played DA2.

 

So? Look it up for all I care, or don't. It doesn't matter to me, and you are kind of missing the point anyway. All choices are pretty much in that mold in some form from BioWare, at least in the last few years.

 

If it is always a "good" and "bad" choice without ambiguity to it, then it becomes the cliche of light vs dark side, the yin and yang always separate if you will. That makes it easy to decide, and doesn't require role-playing in so much as following personal morality.

 

If it is something more ambiguous...then it's a whole other question. How about one you did see, did you re-write the Geth intelligence, or destroy them during Legion's loyalty mission? Which is the right choice to you? 

 

These questions are rhetorical, but the point is more or less the same, it becomes the logic of your character and the situation, not personal morality. Your personal morality can color that perception, even make you question them, but by design they are made to make you think.

[Farangbaa]

Read my edit.

And the Geth decision, again, is not of the same order as the Collector Base or Genophage research. Keeping either of these hurts no one, destroying them could be the end for a species (the research) or everyone (the base).

Those are decision like the ending of the trilogy, where you can choose to save the galaxy, or take some pointless, needless and stupid moral stance and doom everybody... in the process becoming an amoral ******.

Slightly off, but a real life example would be what happened after WWII. The USA had captured hundres, if not thousands of Nazi spies, scientists, engineers, etc. They could've taken a moral stance and executed all of them for what they had done.

But they didn't, they recruited them and put them to use against the Soviets.

I think we can all agree that was the only right decision. Right?

[Elhanan]

Lol - The Krogan charge! Stupidly fast in ME1, make-a-cup-of-tea slow in ME2. Did they get it right in ME3 finally?

Wrex and Grunt may charge, but do not recall fighting against Krogan at all in ME3, though it is an option in The Citadel DLC.

[Elhanan]

Check my game icons. I've never played DA2.

But that's not the same kind of decision. The genophage research/Collector base are of a totally different order. You're not killing anyone or anything by keeping either of them, but you're 100% sure to rob the galaxy of knowledge it could very well use if you destroy them.

There's no decision here, at all, in my not so humble opinion. You keep them.

Destroying the Collector base keeps the intel from the Illusive Man; a good thing, as it is proven that he is indoctrinated, and cannot be trusted.