1016 réponses à ce sujet

[BabyPuncher]

Implying videos game aren't suppose to give a challenge

 

Aside from small niches, they aren't. They're meant to be fun. If they were a legitimate challenge they'd be locking out large portions of their consumer base and it's likely they often wouldn't be much fun at all.

 

If you prefer to play games on the highest difficulty, do so. That's what developers put it in for. But no, games are not challenging in the sense of 'only intelligent, tactical players like YOU get the unlock this outcome. That's what you get for being so awesome!" That's something way too many players need to let go.

[Eelectrica]

It would be very nice to be ably to solve some problems peacefully.

 

I hate running around shooting everything in sight.

 

But I agree with Silvius, it would be a bigger challenge if it wasn´t an obvious win botton.

One thing I like about PoE is that we can do things peacefully and win dialogue options IF we have our character specced to do that. So it's not really an automatic win button as points are sacrificed in other skills to earn that right.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Uh-huh. Do you understand the thematic consequences of having the protagonist succeed or fail based upon a dice roll?

I don't accept that themes exist. The story doesn't exist except in hindsight. At the time these events are occurring, they're just events. They might even appear unrelated to the people experiencing them.

And that's the only perspective that matters; the perspective of the characters.

To the extent that a story is being written, I'm the one writing it with the choices I have the characters make.

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's not supposed to be a challenge. Not in any meaningful sense. This is a video game. It's a mass-produced product deliberately designed to be beatable with a reasonable minimum of frustration by players as young as 12 or so of not only average, but considerably below average intelligence and skill.

It wouldn't be a challenge, because roleplaying games don't have winning conditions. The player cannot win or lose a roleplaying game. The player can only play it.

[BabyPuncher]

Really? And what of the occansions when characters explicitly enunciate those themes in dialogue, as if often the case? In the cases where the the themes don't just exist to us as the audience, but inarguably to the characters themselves?

[Sylvius the Mad]

Aside from small niches, they aren't. They're meant to be fun. If they were a legitimate challenge they'd be locking out large portions of their consumer base and it's likely they often wouldn't be much fun at all.

If you prefer to play games on the highest difficulty, do so. That's what developers put it in for. But no, games are not challenging in the sense of 'only intelligent, tactical players like YOU get the unlock this outcome. That's what you get for being so awesome!" That's something way too many players need to let go.

I'm actually going to agree with this statement.

I don't even try to win combat encounters. In combat, my primary objective is the same as the rest of the game - to roleplay my characters. If that suboptimal combat strategy led to regular death, I probably wouldn't enjoy the game.

That's why I modded FO:NV to give me infinite action points.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Really? And what of the occansions when characters explicitly enunciate those themes in dialogue, as if often the case? In the cases where the the themes don't just exist to us as the audience, but inarguably to the characters themselves?

I can't think of such an instance.

Do you have an example?

[KaiserShep]

It wouldn't be a challenge, because roleplaying games don't have winning conditions. The player cannot win or lose a roleplaying game. The player can only play it.

 

I guess my True FailShep is a good example of this. He beat the Collectors, but he never made it out of the galactic core. 

[BabyPuncher]

Well, it happens quite often, particularly when the protagonist speaks to the antagonist at the climax, where the speak of what they believe or what they've learned. Their truth is the truth of the story, which is why they're the proagonist and why they succeed. In a proper story, anyway.

 

Here's a fine example from Planescape:Torment.

 

Spoiler

"If there is anything I have learned in my travels across the Planes, it is that many things may change the nature of a man. Whether regret, or love, or revenge or fear - whatever you believe can change the nature of a man, can. I’ve seen belief move cities, make men stave off death, and turn an evil hag's heart half-circle. This entire Fortress has been constructed from belief. Belief damned a woman, whose heart clung to the hope that another loved her when he did not. Once, it made a man seek immortality and achieve it. And it has made a posturing spirit think it is something more than a part of me."

 

The protagonist enunciates the central theme of the story.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It would be very nice to be ably to solve some problems peacefully.

 

I hate running around shooting everything in sight.

Yeah, I would love there to be peaceful and/or non-lethal ways to deal with things. 

[Indigenous]

Don't really see how they're similar AT ALL. Being in a position where you lead and people join you is something that's been in tons of video games and a lot of video games have big climatic battles lol. And um the setting and story are a huge thing????? You're saying that's the "only" difference as if it's like nothing

Are YOU being serious?

Yes, I am being totally serious. It is weird, I am trying to find the words to explain why Bioware would make similar stories in different settings but I just cant. Its obvious to me from a purely creative point of view. Think about it if you were Bioware why wouldn't you wish to make a Mass Effect/Origins in a Fantasy/Sci-fi setting.

 

By differences in the story I just mean it being more specific to the setting. However, if you are suggesting that the games are different because the setting is different then I will agree with you. Its a similar story, just tailored to the setting.

 

(If you don't see any truth in my words there really is no point responding to half of what I said )

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Here's wishing Mass Effect Andromeda would use The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt as a template for making a good game.

[Tortugueta]

I agree with the OP, and I have little hope for the game to be honest. I expect a checkbox design that tries to appeal to the broadest possible audience, with the result of a Frankenstein monster of a game devoid of all personality and full of meaningless content. I hope Bioware proves me wrong, but since DA:I I think Bioware and I are on different wavelengths.

[agonis]

I agree with the OP, and I have little hope for the game to be honest. I expect a checkbox design that tries to appeal to the broadest possible audience, with the result of a Frankenstein monster of a game devoid of all personality and full of meaningless content. I hope Bioware proves me wrong, but since DA:I I think Bioware and I are on different wavelengths.

 

Never read "Frankenstein", did you?

 

But I get your drift. I wish there were less pointless fetch quest in DA:I.

[AdmiralBoneToPic]

Yup i am. But going by the leak n trailer it seems it will be. So im expecting shalllow, streamlined, filler fetch quests up the whazoo. Also i bet things like mmo style, checklist-y, icon-fest, lacklastre dialogue wheel, automated gameplay mechanics where you collect shedloads of widgets and explore for exploration's sake large, lifeless maps full of lacklustre encounters and locations which all play the same, just like DA Inquisition. Style over substance. The actual story will, like DAI be 5% of the total. Expect loads of spaces caves with 3 rooms and a load of space goblins over and over again. Bigger is better, Quantity over quality see. It sounds like to me they're going for biggness again. I just hope in going for this huge scope they don't loose the sight of the detail, richness & intricacies. That we don't end up with a game that's as wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle(like DAI was).

 

Proove me wrong Bioware, i hope you do.

[WildOrchid]

I only hope MEA has better story and not be full of useless fetch quests. At least make the sidequests meaningful and having some impact in the main story.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Well, it happens quite often, particularly when the protagonist speaks to the antagonist at the climax, where the speak of what they believe or what they've learned. Their truth is the truth of the story, which is why they're the proagonist and why they succeed. In a proper story, anyway.

The writers don't get to decide what the protagonist learns.

Moreover, who the protagonist is is a matter of perspective. Every person is the protagonist of his own story.

In literary criticism, people might eve disagree about that the central theme of a story is, so I'm not even sure where you're going with this.

And simply being aware that there's a story being told at all amounts to metagaming, which I actively avoid. One of the reasons I like DAI so much is that it doesn't force me to metagame as much as many ither games do.

[KR96]

It does. I'd like an increase in the use of cinematic angles for the dialogue, but the assertion that Inquisition's side-content is nothing but filler fetch-quests is patently untrue.

Would it be hard for you to accept people experienced the game that way, and disliked it for it? I mean, who gives if they disliked it but you did? Is there a rule here on BSN that demands that people must at all times try to change other peoples opinion rather than read and respect them?

[AlanC9]

I guess my True FailShep is a good example of this. He beat the Collectors, but he never made it out of the galactic core.

I wonder who ends up rescuing Liara on Mars in that universe.

[KaiserShep]

I wonder who ends up rescuing Liara on Mars in that universe.

 

Likely no one, since there's no Normandy to escape earth with so not even Anderson could do it. I kinda want to see that alternate storyline.

[AresKeith]

I wonder who ends up rescuing Liara on Mars in that universe.

 

Batman

[AlanC9]

Because they always succeed.

Right. You don't get the opportunity to make an attempt and then see if it succeeds. I guess this is an artifact either of all NPC dialogue being voiced, or of PC voiced dialogue. You'd need alternative NPC responces for failed and successful checks and maybe for the PC's lines too, since some might think it weird for the PC to say the exact same thing but have different results depending on skill level.

[AlanC9]

Likely no one, since there's no Normandy to escape earth with so not even Anderson could do it. I kinda want to see that alternate storyline.

Well, Hackett would have tried to send someone. Whether they made it or not....

[RZIBARA]

Problems with DA:I that I hope dont show up in MEA.

 

• Poorly done villain like Corypheus (after he took down Haven, he become a terrible villain).
• 1000 Fetch quests in bland environments - do something more like the major side missions in ME3, make them meaningful and tie in to the story, I'd prefer 10 major side misisons relating to the story than 100 crap ones. Quality over quantity.
• Saving the galaxy from the end of the world, make the story personal.
• Limited armours - I got sick of finding like 2 armour sets in that game
• Crap companions (very few were interesting in DA:I)

[AlanC9]

Would it be hard for you to accept people experienced the game that way, and disliked it for it? I mean, who gives if they disliked it but you did? Is there a rule here on BSN that demands that people must at all times try to change other peoples opinion rather than read and respect them?

dreamgazer wasn't talking about likes or dislikes in that post. For some reason some people here feel the need to make factually untrue statements to back up their impressions of the game.

Edit: we had a similar problem with ME3. There were once a lot of people saying that ME3 was mostly fetch quests too. Someone even produced a nifty graphic counting up and categorizing all the quests in all three games to prove it. And there's nothing wrong with disliking a game because it's mostly fetch quests.

The problem with the argument is that it isn't true. In a 30+-hour playthrough, Galaxy Map scanning, fetch-quest turn-ins and listening to Citadel ambient conversations took me under two hours. 8% of the game isn't "mostly."