489 réponses à ce sujet

[AventuroLegendary]

We call terrorists people who utilize bombs. Guns are classified shootings. The only exception occurring on a military base and thus a strike against the countries military.

 

That's pretty arbitrary of a distinction. He could have done it with guns, bombs or rattlesnakes for all I care. It's still the act of inflicting terror against a civilian population to further a political goal. (Okay, in your example, it doesn't have to be civilian)

 

His political goals behind the attack were clear. Intimidate a group of people and incite future conflict by attacking a location of relative peace and historical significance, dying afterwards. I doubt that the Columbine shooters had similar long term goals in mind.

[Hellion Rex]

.Also slavery was never a problem... until the civil war. Beforehand no one cared. 

Tell that to the slaves....

[Cainhurst Crow]

If thats what it takes to be a "terrorist" in your eyes, then you should know the united states has hundreds of "terrorist" cells operating within its boarders with intent to sow terror and commit future acts of violence in pursuit of their goals and hold heavy animosity to the government.

Only we call them "gangs" because none of them blow up public places. Otherwise we get shootings that can reach into the double digit fatality rate and have a lot worse casualties, usually kids or elderly. "But thats not shooting a church for politics" nope, but it is shooting up a funeral to strike against a rival gang.(yes. This actually did happen).

[AventuroLegendary]

 

If thats what it takes to be a "terrorist" in your eyes, then you should know the united states has hundreds of "terrorist" cells operating within its boarders with intent to sow terror and commit future acts of violence in pursuit of their goals and hold heavy animosity to the government.

Only we call them "gangs" because none of them blow up public places. Otherwise we get shootings that can reach into the double digit fatality rate and have a lot worse casualties, usually kids or elderly. "But thats not shooting a church for politics" nope, but it is shooting up a funeral to strike against a rival gang.(yes. This actually did happen).

 

When these "terrorist" cells replace their bark with a bite, that's when the quotations are removed.

 

As for actual gang violence, if said gangs were targeting the unaffiliated civilian population for the sake of political goals, you'd be right. As it stands, a lot of them are self-serving criminals whose only purpose is money and power.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Do you honestly think the typical southern soldier fighting under that flag was fighting *for* slavery? No, he was fighting for his home state in most cases, it wasn't some "symbol of slavery" to them. The southern states seceded from the Union so they could maintain the institution of slavery but in their view they had every right to secede if they choose to do so.

One can certainly argue that flag doesn't have a place over government buildings but to argue it has no place at some civil war monuments or that a citizen cannot own/display one is complete injust. To argue several states should change their own state flags because of this murderer is an idiotic overreaction.

[o Ventus]

Cleary you are unfamiliar with most of these shooters and their so called motives.

We call terrorists people who utilize bombs. Guns are classified shootings. The only exception occurring on a military base and thus a strike against the countries military.

Terrorism is any use of violent acts to frighten people in such a way to further a political goal or agenda, right from Merriam-Webster.

 

terrorism (n): the use of violent acts to frighten the people in an area as a way of trying to achieve a political goal

[Johnnie Walker]

Can't we just accept that people have different opinions ffs?

I'm as far south as anyone can get in the states (except below the Florida panhandle), I don't own anything with the Confederate flag, but I have seen plenty of people out right calling other people who own it, ignorant racists bigots.

Some racists c**t made the flag saying it's fo dis! But, like Recon mentioned, not all Confederate soldiers were supporting slavery. I also had linked an article about a black college student making a video saying that he will not take down is Confederate flag because it is not racists to him, but the person I linked it to said, "I don't need to read the article, it's obvious that he has internalized racism." Like... n***a..

 

Should they take it down in front of Government buildings that are unrelated to the Confederacy? I don't really give a dead moose's last s**t.

Should groups of people continue to make assumptions about others because they own a framed Confederate flag? No, shut up. It's not affecting you directly.

 

People aren't the only ones capable of change, the symbolism of a design can develop into another meaning too. Look at the cross that's everywhere, representing Jesus Christ. Well the original cross design came from the oldest religion ever found. It stood for the Sun "dying" around December 25, and in the spring the Sun rises again thus creating warmth for life to come about. When you see a painting of Jesus Christ, there is always a cross in the background with a circle behind his head. That circle is actually a representation of the Sun and the cross is when the sun rises 3 degrees before "dying".

[Cainhurst Crow]

Cross used to be a symbol of capital punishment. Then it was a religious symbol. Now its mostly the lower case of the letter T.

[Jehuty]

Alright, so here is my piece. I wasn't 100 percent there last time, but here is my focused thoughts.

 

That battle flag, everyone who thinks it's a symbol of racism, white power and such you are wrong. That battle flag represents all of those soldiers who fought and died in battle, who fought for their ideas, even if they weren't always just. Who fought with courage and honor to defend their land and their country. 

 

Several of you disrespect that flag, which is something I cannot abide by. By doing you, you disrespect those who came before me, and you disrespect it as much as those hate groups that have chosen to adopt it. You disrespect all those who died. Yet some of you think the South was an evil nation of slavery.

 

The North had slaves too. But not just African. Irish, German, Scottish, English, immigrants. They were forced to work for low pay and in horrible conditions. The south was NOT an evil nation, like some of you think, like you Han shot first. North had it fair share of evils, some of you won't admit. 

 

Do your history and get it right. You tell me that, and now I'll repeat. Han shot first, who thinks the South was the bad guys of the civil war. 

 

You disrespect that flag like the hate groups that have chosen to fly it. I was raised in the South, I am part of the South and I'm proud of it and I will gladly fly that flag. I know what it stands for, and several of you don't. Don't think you're any better than they are, you are in the same boat with them. 

[Johnnie Walker]

Cross used to be a symbol of capital punishment. Then it was a religious symbol. Now its mostly the lower case of the letter T.

 

Yeah, before it was for capital punishment, it stood for the sun "dying" and rising again as early as 3,000BC. To my understanding, the cross wasn't used for crucifixion until about 500BC. But even still, you're right that it was used as capital punishment before people started worshiping the cross for Jesus. So we should get rid of that too.

Spoiler

Last line is satire, not serious.

[o Ventus]

The cross has been used for crucifixion since at least the Carthaginians/Punics and Macedonians, if not earlier.

[AventuroLegendary]

Cross used to be a symbol of capital punishment. Then it was a religious symbol. Now its mostly the lower case of the letter T.

 

The "cross" was actually a capital T. The head for Jesus' was for a sign "King of the Jews". 

[Johnnie Walker]

Well I did say to my understanding, I don't claim to know everything, only fools believe they know everything.

 

But, regardless, the point is that symbols change meaning all the time, it just depends on a matter of perception.

[Cainhurst Crow]

 

 

The "cross" was actually a capital T. The head for Jesus' was for a sign "King of the Jews". 

 

 

So remember folks, he english language would be very differen wihou he cross being so widely adoped. Hank symbol appropriation hat here is a "T" and a "t" to ype or wrie wih.

[Isichar]

Alright, so here is my piece. I wasn't 100 percent there last time, but here is my focused thoughts.

 

That battle flag, everyone who thinks it's a symbol of racism, white power and such you are wrong. That battle flag represents all of those soldiers who fought and died in battle, who fought for their ideas, even if they weren't always just. Who fought with courage and honor to defend their land and their country. 

 

Several of you disrespect that flag, which is something I cannot abide by. By doing you, you disrespect those who came before me, and you disrespect it as much as those hate groups that have chosen to adopt it. You disrespect all those who died. Yet some of you think the South was an evil nation of slavery.

 

The North had slaves too. But not just African. Irish, German, Scottish, English, immigrants. They were forced to work for low pay and in horrible conditions. The south was NOT an evil nation, like some of you think, like you Han shot first. North had it fair share of evils, some of you won't admit. 

 

Do your history and get it right. You tell me that, and now I'll repeat. Han shot first, who thinks the South was the bad guys of the civil war. 

 

You disrespect that flag like the hate groups that have chosen to fly it. I was raised in the South, I am part of the South and I'm proud of it and I will gladly fly that flag. I know what it stands for, and several of you don't. Don't think you're any better than they are, you are in the same boat with them. 

 

I'm going to repost something Jimmy already posted so forgive me for the redundancy
 

"As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause. … Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN'S FLAG. … As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism."

 

-William Thompson, designer of the Confederate Battle Flag

 

OK so now that's out of the way let's be honest. Is everyone who fought under that flag evil? No. Are there people who take pride in the flag who are not racist and are decent people? Sure. But none of that particularly defeats its racist roots nor the fact that it is largely recognized as a racist symbol. You can say they're wrong for thinking so but I think the above quote sort of speaks for itself...

 

The American flag was not founded under the ideal of slavery and racism which is why the flag comparison doesn't work.

 

As for the part where people are still crying about it today... Do you read the newspaper? Do you realize just how much racism still exists in the USA and how unequal the standards are? I don't even live in the US and I still can't go more then a few weeks without hearing about unarmed black people getting gunned down in the US. It happens far too frequently. How are people going to get over it when the perception is very much the same from people who cling on to old ignorant based ideals? You may not subscribe to these same ideals (at least I ****** hope you don't) but it's not hard to see why they're associated with this flag and why the gesture of taking it down is important right now. Understand that **** needs to change in order for a better future, and well this just may be a symbol with the flag it's a step in the right direction.

[Fast Jimmy]

Do you honestly think the typical Nazi soldier fighting under the Swastika was fighting *for* eugenics? No, he was fighting for his home country in most cases, it wasn't some "symbol of Arya. Power" to them. Germany struck back against the League of Nations so they could achieve German racial and military control but in their view they had every right to fight against Europe if if they choose to do so.

Godwin'd that for you.

Yet when you see a Swastika, you think of Nasis and white supremacists, not German soldiers defending their homeland.

[Draining Dragon]

As for the part where people are still crying about it today... Do you read the newspaper? Do you realize just how much racism still exists in the USA and how unequal the standards are? I don't even live in the US and I can't go more then a few weeks without hearing about unarmed black people getting gunned down in the US.

You're oversimplifying. These incidents can't just all be lumped into one category of "black people shot," then used as evidence of racism. You have to consider the factors and circumstances surrounding each one.

There's a huge difference between some sick bastard shooting up a church versus a cop defending himself from assault.

[Isichar]

You're oversimplifying. These incidents can't just all be lumped into one category of "black people shot," then used as evidence of racism. You have to consider the factors and circumstances surrounding each one.

There's a huge difference between some sick bastard shooting up a church versus a cop defending himself from assault.

 

Yeah, except that you find out that the cop who was "defending" himself shot someone in the back who was unarmed running away repeatedly, and then you hear these kind of stories over and over and over again and at some point you just sort of scratch your head and realize there's a seriously fucked up pattern here.

[Jehuty]

Yeah, except that you find out that the cop who was "defending" himself shot someone in the back who was unarmed running away repeatedly, and then you hear these kind of stories over and over and over again and at some point you just sort of scratch your head and realize there's a seriously fucked up pattern here.

There's also the cop shooting a child who had a nerf gun. The kid died.  

[Draining Dragon]

Yeah, except that you find out that the cop who was "defending" himself shot someone in the back who was unarmed running away repeatedly, and then you hear these kind of stories over and over and over again and at some point you just sort of scratch your head and realize there's a seriously fucked up pattern here.

I assume you're talking about the Michael Brown/Darren Wilson incident. Forensic evidence revealed that Michael Brown was not shot in the back. Every bullet entered through the front of his body. He also had a gunshot wound on his hand (suggesting that he tried to grab the gun). Most importantly, the famous "hands up don't shoot" incident never happened.

It's also important to note that Brown committed strong arm robbery shortly before the altercation with Wilson, so assaulting a police officer might have seemed reasonable to Brown at the time.
 

There's also the cop shooting a child who had a nerf gun. The kid died.

Tamir Rice. Now, THAT was straight murder. I can't believe a cop like that got on the force in the first place.

[Isichar]

I'm going to give you an example Draining Dragon because in theory I don't think you're entirely wrong but I want you to see what I mean.

 

In one specific case you have a kid with a toy gun get gunned down by a cop. Believe it or not when I originally heard this story I actually had sympathy for the cop. Sure it was tragic but it's not like it's unheard of for a kid to actually have a real gun. Cop thought it was real and reacted. And then I see a video of the shooting, in which the cop leaped out of his car and started shooting at the kid within a second of getting out and I was completely shocked. The cop didn't even TRY and access the situation, didn't even think about what was happening or give the kid a chance. What kind of ****** world do we live in where a cop will gun down a ****** kid he's suppose to be protecting without even thinking about it. This kind of **** happens entirely too much, and largely to the same race.

[Draining Dragon]

I'm going to give you an example Draining Dragon because in theory I don't think you're entirely wrong but I want you to see what I mean.
 
In one specific case you have a kid with a toy gun get gunned down by a cop. Believe it or not when I originally heard this story I actually had sympathy for the cop. Sure it was tragic but it's not like it's unheard of for a kid to actually have a real gun. Cop thought it was real and reacted. And then I see a video of the shooting, in which the cop leaped out of his car and started shooting at the kid within a second of getting out and I was completely shocked. The cop didn't even TRY and access the situation, didn't even think about what was happening or give the kid a chance. What kind of ****** world do we live in where a cop will gun down a ****** kid he's suppose to be protecting without even thinking about it. This kind of **** happens entirely too much, and largely to the same race.

I remember that incident. I'm certainly not defending THAT cop. What he did was inexcusable and clearly constitutes murder.

[Jehuty]

I'm going to give you an example Draining Dragon because in theory I don't think you're entirely wrong but I want you to see what I mean.

 

In one specific case you have a kid with a toy gun get gunned down by a cop. Believe it or not when I originally heard this story I actually had sympathy for the cop. Sure it was tragic but it's not like it's unheard of for a kid to actually have a real gun. Cop thought it was real and reacted. And then I see a video of the shooting, in which the cop leaped out of his car and started shooting at the kid within a second of getting out and I was completely shocked. The cop didn't even TRY and access the situation, didn't even think about what was happening or give the kid a chance. What kind of ****** world do we live in where a cop will gun down a ****** kid he's suppose to be protecting without even thinking about it. This kind of **** happens entirely too much, and largely to the same race.

Racism and young trigger happy cops. Society has made them that way. 

[Isichar]

I assume you're talking about the Michael Brown/Darren Wilson incident. Forensic evidence revealed that Michael Brown was not shot in the back. Every bullet entered through the front of his body. He also had a gunshot wound on his hand (suggesting that he tried to grab the gun). Most importantly, the famous "hands up don't shoot" incident never happened.

It's also important to note that Brown committed strong arm robbery shortly before the altercation with Wilson, so assaulting a police officer might have seemed reasonable to Brown at the time.
 

Tamir Rice. Now, THAT was straight murder. I can't believe a cop like that got on the force in the first place.

 

Instead of arguing each case specifically I think it's better to look at the larger picture. To be fair I don't think you're entirely wrong. Yes a lot of these things do get lumped together and sure some of them probably can be justified more then others, but there's still a really bad trend going on of questionable incidents that needs to be addressed and taken seriously.

[Fast Jimmy]

Racism and young trigger happy cops. Society has made them that way. 

 

Racist? Or trigger happy?