2291 réponses à ce sujet

[Donk]

*does a shot*

*does a second shot*

*weeps for his liver*

Funny. I needed a liver transplant after reading all of your posts.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I understand your point, Iakus, I really do...but it honestly surprises me that you still (apparently) pursues romances at all, I mean - you get to see Ashley's bare butt if you romance her back in ME1, "partial" sex always was the cherry pie in ME games, the last major content in romances, you couldn't just skip them by taking some other route.

Not really. Let's look at Mass Effect's history. 

In Mass Effect 1, you can hit the skip button and by the time dialogue occurred there was no nudity.

In Mass Effect 2, there was no nudity since they did fade to black, and there is even a romance that is written to be ambiguous about the nature of the relationship with Kelly Chambers. And all those scenes are skippable as well.

In Mass Effect 3, they use clever camera angles for Liara, underwear for Shepard and the VS, fade to black for the others, and ambiguous for Kelly. And like its predecessors, the scenes are skippable.

So in none of the Mass Effect games was it unskippable and forced nudity on the screen like some of the romances in DAI. 

[Andrew Lucas]

Not really. Let's look at Mass Effect's history.
In Mass Effect 1, you can hit the skip button and by the time dialogue occurred there was no nudity.
In Mass Effect 2, there was no nudity since they did fade to black, and there was even a romance that was written to be ambiguous about the nature of the relationship with Kelly Chambers. And all those scenes were skippable as well.
In Mass Effect 3, they used clever camera angles for Liara, underwear for Shepard and the VS, fade to black for the others, and ambiguous for Kelly. And like its predecessors, the scenes were skippable.
So in none of the Mass Effect games was it unskippable and forced nudity on the screen like some of the romances in DAI.

In ME1, 2 and 3, all paths culminated to a sex scene, you couldn't skip them. Iakus' point is that Dorian's romance didn't need a sex scene to be "locked".

As for nudity itself, Mass Effect handles it horribly, a highly know franchise such as Mass Effect - which is rated M, should never portrayl those moments like that once again, it's laughable, and that is shameful and detracts from what could have been a meaningful scene, like Cassandra's in Inquisition.

That was handled well, and sets a bar for Andromeda to follow.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

In ME1, 2 and 3, all paths culminated to a sex scene, you couldn't skip them. Iakus' point is that Dorian's romance didn't need a sex scene to be "locked".

As for nudity itself, Mass Effect handles it horribly, a highly know franchise such as Mass Effect - which is rated M, should never portrayal those moments like that once again, it's laughable, and that is distracting and detracts from what could have been a meaningful scene, like Cassandra's in Inquisition.

That was handled well, and sets a bar for Andromeda to follow.

Almost all paths. As I said, Kelly was written to be ambiguous about whether her relationship with Shepard was just romantic or romantic and sexual, thus no sex scene. 

 

I found the ME1 scenes and Liara's ME3 scenes to have been handled much better than Cassandra's in DAI, and instead how they handled nudity in her scene detracted from the scene. 

[Andrew Lucas]

Almost all paths. As I said, Kelly was written to be ambiguous about whether her relationship with Shepard was just romantic or romantic and sexual, thus no sex scene. 
 
I found the ME1 scenes and Liara's ME3 scenes to have been handled much better than Cassandra's in DAI, and instead how they handled nudity in her scene detracted from the scene.

I wouldn't consider Kelly a romance...more like an escapade, or basically a relationship that only comes down to pleasing one another without any kind of attachment, if the player chooses to pursue her - of course.

ME1's scenes were fine, you get to see some naked butt, not fully different from DAI, but I don't understand how two nipples are a big deal if you like ME1's.

[Gothfather]

The bloody toggle again?

 

"Give us a toggle for sexuality that isn't heterosexual

 

Give us a toggle for profanity

 

Give us a toggle for nudity

 

Give us a toggle for gore"

 

Give us a toggle for WHAT? any content that is of a mature rating?

 

Should there be a toggle for violence as well so Quakers who abhor violence can play Bioware games and not be offended?

 

Games are part artistic endeavour should we put a fig leave over Michaelangelo's David statue's junk because someone is offended?

 

If nudity, profanity, homosexuality/bisexuality offend you then show some moral fortitude and NOT buy a product. I hate the moral business practices of Wallmart so I refuse to shop at wallmart even if it is the cheapest place to get some things. If you are offended by content that places a mature title into said category DON'T buy a mature title.

 

Stop trying to force your personal set of morals onto people behind the guise of a toggle. Don't like something? be an ADULT and refrain.

[Andrew Lucas]

The bloody toggle again?
 
"Give us a toggle for sexuality that isn't heterosexual
 
Give us a toggle for profanity
 
Give us a toggle for nudity
 
Give us a toggle for gore"
 
Give us a toggle for WHAT? any content that is of a mature rating?
 
Should there be a toggle for violence as well so Quakers who abhor violence can play Bioware games and not be offended?
 
Games are part artistic endeavour should we put a fig leave over Michaelangelo's David statue's junk because someone is offended?
 
If nudity, profanity, homosexuality/bisexuality offend you then show some moral fortitude and NOT buy a product. I hate the moral business practices of Wallmart so I refuse to shop at wallmart even if it is the cheapest place to get some things. If you are offended by content that places a mature title into said category DON'T buy a mature title.
 
Stop trying to force your personal set of morals onto people behind the guise of a toggle. Don't like something? be an ADULT and refrain.

Could have been little bit less harsh...but,

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The bloody toggle again?

Nobody is asking for a toggle. Calm down. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I wouldn't consider Kelly a romance...more like an escapade, or basically a relationship that only comes down to pleasing one another without any kind of attachment, if the player chooses to pursue her - of course.

ME1's scenes were fine, you get to see some naked butt, not fully different from DAI, but I don't understand how two nipples are a big deal if you like ME1's.

If you do the romance from ME2 to ME3, she grants the Paramour achievement. And the fact Kelly asks Shepard to come back to her if you commit means there is attachment. So I don't see why she doesn't count. 

 

Two reasons:

1) Use of shadows and camera angles made it not as explicit(which could translate as more intimate). 

2) The scene is skippable rather than you having to choose a dialogue option when there is nudity on the screen.

[Andrew Lucas]

If you do the romance from ME2 to ME3, she grants the Paramour achievement. And the fact Kelly asks Shepard to come back to her if you commit means there is attachment. So I don't see why she doesn't count. 
 
Two reasons:
1) Use of shadows and camera angles made it not as explicit. 
2) The scene is skippable rather than you having to choose a dialogue option when there are nude people on the screen.

Sorry, still don't see it.

Camera angles or shadows are pointless here, you see them both naked, and you see some butt because Bioware wasn't breasts capable until DAI.

So you've seen it, and supports it, but apparently skips it. I don't know anymore, both (DAI & ME1) are similar IMO.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I wanna dance all naked pouring champagne on. Wheeee!!!!!!

[Thermopylae]

I just googled Natalie Dormer, so now I get the fascination. She's fabulous but make up and lighting do help as well.

 

I think its probably easier in general to represent a romance in a futuristic setting compared to a medieval setting because a futuristic setting tends to be an extrapolation of contemporary society, while a medieval setting is different, different sensibilities and people develop relationships over different things and have different standards of beauty and desirabilitiy, such as we believe in the same god and you have more teeth than fingers. 

 

The final love interest scene in DAI, with the paramour and player (protagonist) on a balcony watching the horizon was not bad, provided some closure.

[Cyonan]

The bloody toggle again?

 

"Give us a toggle for sexuality that isn't heterosexual

 

Give us a toggle for profanity

 

Give us a toggle for nudity

 

Give us a toggle for gore"

 

Give us a toggle for WHAT? any content that is of a mature rating?

 

Should there be a toggle for violence as well so Quakers who abhor violence can play Bioware games and not be offended?

 

Games are part artistic endeavour should we put a fig leave over Michaelangelo's David statue's junk because someone is offended?

 

If nudity, profanity, homosexuality/bisexuality offend you then show some moral fortitude and NOT buy a product. I hate the moral business practices of Wallmart so I refuse to shop at wallmart even if it is the cheapest place to get some things. If you are offended by content that places a mature title into said category DON'T buy a mature title.

 

Stop trying to force your personal set of morals onto people behind the guise of a toggle. Don't like something? be an ADULT and refrain.

 

Alternatively they could come to the forum that BioWare has set up for people to voice their opinions about the game and... voice their opinions on what they would and wouldn't like to see in the game.

 

but we can't have using the forums for their intended purpose getting in the way of asking for more super hot chicks to bang, I suppose =P

[Donk]

The bloody toggle again?

 

"Give us a toggle for sexuality that isn't heterosexual

 

Give us a toggle for profanity

 

Give us a toggle for nudity

 

Give us a toggle for gore"

 

Give us a toggle for WHAT? any content that is of a mature rating?

 

Should there be a toggle for violence as well so Quakers who abhor violence can play Bioware games and not be offended?

 

 

 

I can imagine the options menu in future BioWare games looking something like this:

 

Sexuality toggle [ ]

Gender toggle [ ]

Gore toggle [ ]

Violence toggle [ ]

Combat toggle [ ]

Profanity toggle [ ]

Sexualised outfit toggle [ ]

Big breast toggle [ ]

Camera-panning-on-backside toggle [ ]

Defined abs toggle [ ]

In-game political belief toggle [ ]

In-game religious belief toggle [ ]

Shaved hairstyle toggle [ ]

[Gothfather]

Alternatively they could come to the forum that BioWare has set up for people to voice their opinions about the game and... voice their opinions on what they would and wouldn't like to see in the game.

 

but we can't have using the forums for their intended purpose getting in the way of asking for more super hot chicks to bang, I suppose =P

 

Strawman argument.^^

 

Mature titles are such that they WILL have mature content. It is inappropriate to ask a MATURE rated franchise to removed content that is MATURE. I don't go to Websites of Religious organizations and ask that they add Atheist teachings or sexually explicit material to their content be it books, sermons or television shows. It would be inappropriate to ask them to do so doubly so to ask them to remove references to god from their material. They ARE religious so if religious content offends me I shouldn't buy, watch, or read said material.

 

Asking Bioware to make their new as of yet unannounced in development project a teen or general audience game is a reasonable request. 'Please provide me with games with less mature themes like Kotor for instance which was teen rated.' This is an appropriate conversation to have. It is way different from asking Bioware to take an already existing Series and remove content you find objectionable. The content you don't like is already part and parcel of the franchise if you don't like the content don't BUY IT.

 

General media Inc published both Penthouse and Omni magazines. Omni was a science and sci-fi magazine and Penthouse was nudie magazine. Asking General media inc to remove the naked pictures from future penthouse magazine issues is an inappropriate request. Yet if someone says "I don't like your nudie content but really enjoy your science and sci-fi content can you please make more magazine titles with science and sci-fi content" that is a rational and reasonable request.

 

But I really don't think this is about asking Bioware to give you more content that you want. I really think this is a thinly veiled campaign to stop this content from being made period. In other words it is an attempt to impose one group's morality upon another, I have zero tolerance for this kind of crap.

[Cyonan]

Strawman argument.^^

 

Mature titles are such that they WILL have mature content. It is inappropriate to ask a MATURE rated franchise to removed content that is MATURE. I don't go to Websites of Religious organizations and ask that they add Atheist teachings or sexually explicit material to their content be it books, sermons or television shows. It would be inappropriate to ask them to do so doubly so to ask them to remove references to god from their material. They ARE religious so if religious content offends me I should buy, watch, or read said material.

 

Asking Bioware to make their new as of yet unannounced in development project a teen or general audience game is a reasonable request. 'Please provide me with games with less mature themes like Kotor for instance which was teen rated.' This is an appropriate conversation to have. It is way different from asking Bioware to take an already existing Series and remove content you find objectionable. The content you don't like is already part and parcel of the franchise if you don't like the content don't BUY IT.

 

General media Inc published both Penthouse and Omni magazines. Omni was a science and sci-fi magazine and Penthouse was nudie magazine. Asking General media inc to remove the naked pictures from future penthouse magazine issues is an inappropriate request. Yet if someone says "I don't like your nudie content but really enjoy your science and sci-fi content can you please make more magazine titles with science and sci-fi content" that is a rational and reasonable request.

 

But I really don't think this is about asking Bioware to give you more content that you want. I really think this is a thinly veiled campaign to stop this content from being made period. In other words it is an attempt to impose one group's morality upon another, I have zero tolerance for this kind of crap.

 

It was more of a sarcastic jab at the whole "If you don't like it then leave" attitude people take on these forums, which I find to the one of the stupidest arguments that can be made in a case like this(which is not at all the same as asking a religious forum to stop talking about religion). It's basically saying "I don't like your opinion, so just leave and stop trying to argue it because I don't like it".

 

Though as for an actual argument, nothing says that a M rated game has to have nudity in it. Note how every Mass Effect game has been rated Mature, but none of them featured visible boobs.

 

At this point it is you who is asking BioWare to change what Mass Effect has always done in the past, not the people asking for no nudity.

[SNascimento]

I've been playing The Witcher 3 and as many might know there are a few romances in that game. As I see it, it made sense for  Gerald to romance a certain character and I thought it was extremely well handled. There were one or two scenes that I enjoyed to watch because it really felt two people having a moment and the choices involving the romance were well placed.

The scene where they finally get together is in a lighthouse and they kiss in front of the burning fire and it was very beautiful. And then there is a sex scene with a lot of nudity and I couldn't help but to feel how not needed it was. In fact, it made all the romance worse because it felt that the scene was there only as a "reward" to the players, so they could see the character naked. It didn't add anything for the romance or for the relationship between the characters. 

So is nudity in a game bad? No, as with probably all other game topics, it depends on execution. Bioware shouldn't focus much on the sex scene itself... in terms of a game, it is the least important.

If I had to say how Bioware should handle it, I'd say similar to how Bernard Cornwell do in his books. In terms of nudity it would be a yes, there is nudity, but only a little and handled with a lot of good taste.

[Il Divo]

I'm pretty much on record as saying toggles are unfeasible.  But there is no reason to force a conversation with a topless Cassandra.  Her breasts don't add anything to the scene at all.  The  talk could have taken place in a fully clothed scene and nothing would have been lost.

 

 

 

^The Pulp Fiction scenario from the language filter thread again crops up. 

 

For my own record, I have little to no interest in nudity from Bioware games (I think they should cut out romances altogether). But the "nothing would have been lost" argument also tends to be misapplied quite a bit. 

 

As per the language filter thread, insisting that foul language adds nothing to the experience is not likely to convince a foul language proponent. And vice versa. 

[Gothfather]

It was more of a sarcastic jab at the whole "If you don't like it then leave" attitude people take on these forums, which I find to the one of the stupidest arguments that can be made in a case like this(which is not at all the same as asking a religious forum to stop talking about religion). It's basically saying "I don't like your opinion, so just leave and stop trying to argue it because I don't like it".

 

Though as for an actual argument, nothing says that a M rated game has to have nudity in it. Note how every Mass Effect game has been rated Mature, but none of them featured visible boobs.

 

At this point it is you who is asking BioWare to change what Mass Effect has always done in the past, not the people asking for no nudity.

That is utter BS. I am not asking them to do anything. I am telling people to stop requesting the removal of mature content from a mature title. The same posters that say no nudity are the same posters that say no profanity or no diversity in sexuality. And you all use the same argument in every thread. A mature title don't have to have nudity in the nudity thread, Then change it to Mature titles don't have to have profanity in the profanity thread. And so on. it is a systematic and calculated attempt to remove mature content from a mature title.

 

If MATURE content REGARDLESS of what it is offends you don't buy the product. If this was REALLY about getting bioware to make more content you want then you people would be requesting their new IP be teen or or E for everyone rated. But that isn't the agenda. The agenda is trying to impose one group's morality on all.

[Seraphim24]

Would really dispute that KOTOR is "immature" or something just because it is T rated or something as seems to be implied...

[Cyonan]

That is utter BS. I am not asking them to do anything. I am telling people to stop requesting the removal of mature content from a mature title. The same posters that say no nudity are the same posters that say no profanity or no diversity in sexuality. And you all use the same argument in every thread. A mature title don't have to have nudity in the nudity thread, Then change it to Mature titles don't have to have profanity in the profanity thread. And so on. it is a systematic and calculated attempt to remove mature content from a mature title.

 

If MATURE content REGARDLESS of what it is offends you don't buy the product. If this was REALLY about getting bioware to make more content you want then you people would be requesting their new IP be teen or or E for everyone rated. But that isn't the agenda. The agenda is trying to impose one group's morality on all.

 

but there isn't removal of anything in this case, because Mass Effect never had nudity to begin with. How can you remove something that wasn't there?

 

Personally I don't actually care if they have nudity or not. I mostly just wanted to point out how absurd the whole "if you don't like it then leave" argument is on a forum designed for people to give their opinions. Those opinions do get to include things that you may not like.

[Lucca_de_Neon]

Boobs, butts and sex? where do i sign?

[SNascimento]

Would really dispute that KOTOR is "immature" or something just because it is T rated or something as seems to be implied...

Well. KoTOR has the best romance of any Bioware game that I've played.

[Seraphim24]

Well. KoTOR has the best romance of any Bioware game that I've played.

 

The interactions between Viconia and PC in BG2 was pretty solid, but yeah Revan/Bastila is up there... not really a person to focus on that aspect but they did seem quite engaging.

[Catastrophy]

Well. KoTOR has the best romance of any Bioware game that I've played.

There is romance in KoToR?