2291 réponses à ce sujet

[Riven326]

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. Romance has more or less become blatant fan service because BioWare knows some fans want it and they can't get enough of it. However, I think it's important to note I didn't remember any of the romance scenes or even the dialogue from DAI. It was that forgettable to me. Whereas in other games, that actually build genuine relationships, for example Bioshock Infinite, which doesn't even have to be romantic or sexual, I remember those clearly.

 

It's not quantity that matters, but quality. TW3 has done a great job of building Geralt and Triss' relationship over three games and you really have become familiar with the character that you generally care for her. It's not the same way in DAI where I really just don't care about the companions at all. I cared far more for Leliana and she has such a minor role in the game.

 

I think BioWare just needs to take a step back, stop trying to throw in gratuity and fan service like this is Game of Thrones, and really work on building relationships and friendships with these characters.

I was one of the people who really listened to David Gaider in interviews and even here on the forum. When he said he didn't like doing the romances and wished he didn't have to, I took that as a sign that maybe he wasn't the only one on the writing staff who felt that way. It's something the writing staff might feel they have to do in order to keep selling games. This might even have some merit given that I've seen quite a few people on this forum say they would outright boycott Bioware if romances were ever removed or marginalized. Supposing this is true, it would help explain why the romance mechanic has yet to really evolve beyond it's initial conception.

When you feel like you have to do something because it's expected and you're no longer passionate about it, it's only natural that you'd drag your feet.

[Seboist]

Gaider and co only have themselves to blame for all the romance creepdom. Just look at how the number of "romances" increased with each subsequent DA title: http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Romance

[Revan Reborn]

I was one of the people who really listened to David Gaider in interviews and even here on the forum. When he said he didn't like doing the romances and wished he didn't have to, I took that as a sign that maybe he wasn't the only one on the writing staff who felt that way. It's something the writing staff might feel they have to do in order to keep selling games. This might even have some merit given that I've seen quite a few people on this forum say they would outright boycott Bioware if romances were ever removed or marginalized. Supposing this is true, it would help explain why the romance mechanic has yet to really evolve beyond it's initial conception.

When you feel like you have to do something because it's expected and you're no longer passionate about it, it's only natural that you'd drag your feet.

Well, to be honest, I was ecstatic to hear the news that David Gaider left BioWare. I respect the man as well as his work, but his social justice tendencies as well as his dismissive and argumentative nature towards fans was just a major turn-off. He was turning his games more into sociopolitical talks rather than just creating entertainment.

 

Romances have come a long way since Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and perhaps the writers aren't keen on having to constantly provide more depth, detail, and fan service. I certainly can empathize that writing some of these sex scenes, such as the Cassandra "poem" romance, was pretty awkward and cringe-worthy, in my opinion.

 

Again, if we focus more on just relationships and dialogue and less on gratuity and fan service, I can't see why the writers would take issue with that. BioWare games have always been about relationships with companions. Does it really change anything if they further tweak and refine one of the staples of the studio?

 

With MEA having a new lead writer and the next Dragon Age also having a new lead writer, hopefully this will reinvigorate both properties and we'll see a re-energized and new level of realism brought into these relationships.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Yeah it's pretty ridiculous. Romance has more or less become blatant fan service because BioWare knows some fans want it and they can't get enough of it. However, I think it's important to note I didn't remember any of the romance scenes or even the dialogue from DAI. It was that forgettable to me. Whereas in other games, that actually build genuine relationships, for example Bioshock Infinite, which doesn't even have to be romantic or sexual, I remember those clearly.

It's not quantity that matters, but quality. TW3 has done a great job of building Geralt and Triss' relationship over three games and you really have become familiar with the character that you generally care for her. It's not the same way in DAI where I really just don't care about the companions at all. I cared far more for Leliana and she has such a minor role in the game.

I think BioWare just needs to take a step back, stop trying to throw in gratuity and fan service like this is Game of Thrones, and really work on building relationships and friendships with these characters.

What's the point of having relationships if you can't bang them?! It's going to be boring if you just kiss and cuddle, look how Josie romance have turned out.

[Laughing_Man]

So Gaider's not liking romance anymore? Great!

 

Just get rid of the entire thing and all the baggage that comes with it. Use the time saved to make the game more polished and interesting.

 

I mean, at this point with the creeping number of expected "romance" options, there is no way to make all of them tied to the game in a believable manner. You mostly get a romantic side quests.

 

Either do it really well, or don't do it at all.

[Vox Draco]

So Gaider's not liking romance anymore? Great!

 

Just get rid of the entire thing and all the baggage that comes with it. Use the time saved to make the game more polished and interesting.

 

I mean, at this point with the creeping number of expected "romance" options, there is no way to make all of them tied to the game in a believable manner. You mostly get a romantic side quests.

 

Either do it really well, or don't do it at all.

 

The one romance-scene I just loved and cared for most was in ME1, my Femshep and Kaidan. First you got the exciting, pumped-up assault on Virmire, everything runs smooth and then you find out about Sovereign, Saren escapes, you have to get a comrade killed, and as a reward you get grounded. Everything kept crashin down on my Shepard, and things looked bleak.

 

And that's when the romoance suddenly felt really "in-place". My Shep, literally burdened to teh ground by the stress, failures, etc - then someone to lean on for her, to "ease the pain" etc. There the romance just felt kinda naturally coming (no pun here, pervs) to the story, and not being there just to fulfill a quota of gay/lesbo/straight/pansexual/bi/zoophilia-romance-options for each and all...

 

And yeah, they should be nude when doing the dirty deed in space. People are nude when doing it, most of them. It gives easier access to the vital parts usually involved in the process.

[Riven326]

Well, to be honest, I was ecstatic to hear the news that David Gaider left BioWare. I respect the man as well as his work, but his social justice tendencies as well as his dismissive and argumentative nature towards fans was just a major turn-off. He was turning his games more into sociopolitical talks rather than just creating entertainment.

 

Romances have come a long way since Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and perhaps the writers aren't keen on having to constantly provide more depth, detail, and fan service. I certainly can empathize that writing some of these sex scenes, such as the Cassandra "poem" romance, was pretty awkward and cringe-worthy, in my opinion.

 

Again, if we focus more on just relationships and dialogue and less on gratuity and fan service, I can't see why the writers would take issue with that. BioWare games have always been about relationships with companions. Does it really change anything if they further tweak and refine one of the staples of the studio?

 

With MEA having a new lead writer and the next Dragon Age also having a new lead writer, hopefully this will reinvigorate both properties and we'll see a re-energized and new level of realism brought into these relationships.

I was pleased to hear that Patrick Weekes was taking over as lead writer for Dragon Age. I didn't talk to Gaider much here on the forum, but I did see some of his responses to those who were critical of his work and he didn't seem to take it very well. I wasn't broken up over his departure but I wasn't celebratory either. He was just one guy at the company. I'm sure there are others that are just as eager to pick up the social justice flag and run with it.

[Laughing_Man]

The one romance-scene I just loved and cared for most was in ME1, my Femshep and Kaidan. First you got the exciting, pumped-up assault on Virmire, everything runs smooth and then you find out about Sovereign, Saren escapes, you have to get a comrade killed, and as a reward you get grounded. Everything kept crashin down on my Shepard, and things looked bleak.

 

And that's when the romoance suddenly felt really "in-place". My Shep, literally burdened to teh ground by the stress, failures, etc - then someone to lean on for her, to "ease the pain" etc. There the romance just felt kinda naturally coming (no pun here, pervs) to the story, and not being there just to fulfill a quota of gay/lesbo/straight/pansexual/bi/zoophilia-romance-options for each and all...

 

I was lucky with ME, I happen to like the one romance arc that got the most love and attention - Liara.

I especially liked how the whole thing felt tied to the story itself. (I do understand why it would annoy people that disliked her, but that's not my problem)

 

There were other decent options, Jack comes to mind.

 

But most of the time, both in ME and DA (Morrigan was close to Liara in regards to relevancy to the story) romances were just forgettable.

Mostly a waste of resources in my opinion.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I was lucky with ME, I happen to like the one romance arc that got the most love and attention - Liara.
I especially liked how the whole thing felt tied to the story itself. (I do understand why it would annoy people that disliked her, but that's not my problem)

There were other decent options, Jack comes to mind.

But most of the time, both in ME and DA (Morrigan was close to Liara in regards to relevancy to the story) romances were just forgettable.
Mostly a waste of resources in my opinion.

If only they were ALL naked.

[X Equestris]

Gaider and co only have themselves to blame for all the romance creepdom. Just look at how the number of "romances" increased with each subsequent DA title: http://dragonage.wik...om/wiki/Romance

The number of romances also increased with each Mass Effect title.

[Revan Reborn]

What's the point of having relationships if you can't bang them?! It's going to be boring if you just kiss and cuddle, look how Josie romance have turned out.

I'm not against the sex scenes. I'm just saying another area BioWare can improve in is more believable relationships. Who doesn't love boobs (when appropriate)?

 

The one romance-scene I just loved and cared for most was in ME1, my Femshep and Kaidan. First you got the exciting, pumped-up assault on Virmire, everything runs smooth and then you find out about Sovereign, Saren escapes, you have to get a comrade killed, and as a reward you get grounded. Everything kept crashin down on my Shepard, and things looked bleak.

 

And that's when the romoance suddenly felt really "in-place". My Shep, literally burdened to teh ground by the stress, failures, etc - then someone to lean on for her, to "ease the pain" etc. There the romance just felt kinda naturally coming (no pun here, pervs) to the story, and not being there just to fulfill a quota of gay/lesbo/straight/pansexual/bi/zoophilia-romance-options for each and all...

 

And yeah, they should be nude when doing the dirty deed in space. People are nude when doing it, most of them. It gives easier access to the vital parts usually involved in the process.

I agree with this. I think the romance was handled incredibly well in ME1. I do think because Drew and his team never focused on being politically correct, like David and his team, that social justice issues never impacted the experience. It's why I think Mass Effect romances, overall, are better than Dragon Age romances. Dragon Age started to falter when it was taking itself too seriously and was trying to placate and appease every sexual minority on the planet. I'm all for inclusion, but come on folks; this is a video game. The game being fun should be what's important far more than anything else. That's why people play games.

 

I was pleased to hear that Patrick Weekes was taking over as lead writer for Dragon Age. I didn't talk to Gaider much here on the forum, but I did see some of his responses to those who were critical of his work and he didn't seem to take it very well. I wasn't broken up over his departure but I wasn't celebratory either. He was just one guy at the company. I'm sure there are others that are just as eager to pick up the social justice flag and run with it.

Gaider was like a viper. If anybody gave him lip, he'd throw it right back at them. While I can respect that he would stand by his decisions and provide his rationale, he was just far too combative and argumentative for his own good.

 

We shall see. The only reason I know Gaider was one of the biggest advocates of social justice is because he gave a presentation about how under-inclusive games are, particularly with romance. I respect and admire his will to want to make a truly diverse experience more reflective of  more people. I just believe there needs to be a fine line and a balance where you don't go overboard and ultimately hurt the overall experience.

 

I have no idea where Weekes stands on the issue, but I hope he dials it back a bit. DAI really is the first game where I just did not enjoy the romance options I was given and I'm not sure the writers enjoyed writing them either.

[SnakeCode]

Those of you that are glad Gaider has gone because he was too social justice-y are going to be very disappointed that Patrick Weekes took his place.

[Laughing_Man]

Those of you that are glad Gaider has gone because he was too social justice-y are going to be very disappointed that Patrick Weekes took his place.

 

TBH I don't give a flying sausage about who is on top and what their politics are - assuming they can make a good game.

 

I mean, it's not like I'm going to pre-order Bioware games anyway, so I'll just wait and watch the reactions very carefully.

[Revan Reborn]

TBH I don't give a flying sausage about who is on top and what their politics are - assuming they can make a good game.

 

I mean, it's not like I'm going to pre-order Bioware games anyway, so I'll just wait and watch the reactions very carefully.

Speak for yourself. I want a good game! I don't want it to be over-encumbered with politically-correct, social justice tendencies due to BioWare wanting to give some sense that they are morally superior and more open-minded than other developers. I want a fun game first and foremost! Then BioWare can be more inclusive and diverse later if it doesn't impact the overall experience. Mass Effect offered different options for sexuality and I think it was handled pretty well (Traynor is a perfect example). Dragon Age just went into the deep end with not really anybody being happy with their options, from what I could tell.

[Laughing_Man]

Speak for yourself. I want a good game! I don't want it to be over-encumbered with politically-correct, social justice tendencies due to BioWare wanting to give some sense that they are morally superior and more open-minded than other developers. I want a fun game first and foremost! Then BioWare can be more inclusive and diverse later if it doesn't impact the overall experience. Mass Effect offered different options for sexuality and I think it was handled pretty well (Traynor is a perfect example). Dragon Age just went into the deep end with not really anybody being happy with their options, from what I could tell.

 

I don't disagree, but Bioware, well, it's not like I have any kind of blind faith in them. As far as I am concerned their glory days are over.

If they happen to make a good game, great, I'll buy it. If not, there are other promising prospects out there.

[SnakeCode]

I don't disagree, but Bioware, well, it's not like I have any kind of blind faith in them. As far as I am concerned their glory days are over.

If they happen to make a good game, great, I'll buy it. If not, there are other promising prospects out there.

 

Same, i'll probably end up buying it out of habit, but long gone are the days where I used to wait on tenterhooks, giddy with excitement for the next BioWare release. 

[Revan Reborn]

I don't disagree, but Bioware, well, it's not like I have any kind of blind faith in them. As far as I am concerned their glory days are over.

If they happen to make a good game, great, I'll buy it. If not, there are other promising prospects out there.

I agree that it seems BioWare is certainly past its prime. CDPR, a company that was largely inspired by BioWare and even used its Odyssey Engine (KotOR 1 and Jade Empire) for The Witcher 1, seems to have largely left BioWare in the dust. I think BioWare has something truly special with Mass Effect as a property. However, I'd be lying if I wasn't skeptical with many of its leadership leaving in the past four years and some of the company's questionable design choices in various games as of late.

[Riven326]

Those of you that are glad Gaider has gone because he was too social justice-y are going to be very disappointed that Patrick Weekes took his place.

It's like I said, Gaider was just one guy at the company and I'm sure he wasn't the only one who was really into the social justice crusade. I was happy to see Patrick get the lead writer position because I think he's done a really great job so far. It'd be nice if he toned it down a bit but I don't hold my breath.

 

I agree that it seems BioWare is certainly past its prime. CDPR, a company that was largely inspired by BioWare and even used its Odyssey Engine (KotOR 1 and Jade Empire) for The Witcher 1, seems to have largely left BioWare in the dust. I think BioWare has something truly special with Mass Effect as a property. However, I'd be lying if I wasn't skeptical with many of its leadership leaving in the past four years and some of the company's questionable design choices in various games as of late.

I think it's fairly obvious that something is amiss at Bioware these days. The general quality of their games has taken a down turn that is evident when compared to it's past works and even more so when compared to it's peers. I don't think Bioware has really been able to transition properly from classic Bioware to modern AAA Bioware. It probably has less to do with EA than we think. The mandatory multiplayer component can be laid at EA's feet however.

[Lady Artifice]

So Gaider's not liking romance anymore? Great!

 

-snip-

 

Maybe I don't have Riven's super attentive, "really listening" skills, but I never witnessed Gaider say anything to that effect.

 

Every time I've seen/heard/read him address the matter, he expressed a sense that it was a fun rp option to have, sometimes to the point of actual enthusiasm.

[Seboist]

Gaider once made a forum post where people on here would romance/bang a mailbox if they could and that's no exaggeration either.

[CoM Solaufein]

Whatever turns you on I guess

[Lady Artifice]

Gaider once made a forum post where people on here would romance/bang a mailbox if they could and that's no exaggeration either.

 

Now why would I ever accuse you of exaggerating?

[Riven326]

Maybe I don't have Riven's super attentive, "really listening" skills, but I never witnessed Gaider say anything to that effect.

 

Every time I've seen/heard/read him address the matter, he expressed a sense that it was a fun rp option to have, sometimes to the point of actual enthusiasm.

lol. Fair enough. I recall him talking about it at comic con and a few other one on one interviews.

[Revan Reborn]

I think it's fairly obvious that something is amiss at Bioware these days. The general quality of their games has taken a down turn that is evident when compared to it's past works and even more so when compared to it's peers. I don't think Bioware has really been able to transition properly from classic Bioware to modern AAA Bioware. It probably has less to do with EA than we think. The mandatory multiplayer component can be laid at EA's feet however.

Yeah. Beside the multiplayer component being tacked on, which is an EA directive, BioWare only has itself to blame for recent projects. I do believe they have struggled to rekindle the magic of an independent developer BioWare to a AAA developer BioWare. The only solution I have for BioWare is to go back to their roots, look at their older projects, and then turn to their peers and see what they are doing.

 

BioWare games certainly aren't terrible and I still enjoy them. I just no longer have that level of excitement for their projects like I used to when they would reveal a new game. Perhaps they have tried to appease too many folks and it has diluted their experience. Maybe instead of trying to please everybody, they should focus on making a really great experience and see how folks perceive it.

[Draining Dragon]

Same, i'll probably end up buying it out of habit, but long gone are the days where I used to wait on tenterhooks, giddy with excitement for the next BioWare release.

I used to consider Bioware to be my favorite developer, but now, I'm not so sure.

I'll probably buy Andromeda, just to see what they've done with the series. I don't have very high hopes for it.