2291 réponses à ce sujet

[Jewellzify]

Wanting other people and/or fictional characters to enjoy sexual relationships =/= wanting to watch them.

I also want them to bathe, eat, groom their hair, sleep, brush their teeth, spend some productive time on the crapper, etc., but I don't have any particular desire to watch them do any of these things, either.
 

The rest of your post might make a modicum of sense if I ever actually "engaged my character in having said romance with nudity only to complain later." I haven't.

I'm merely stating my preferences for the future.

 

As I said potato, patato.. people like different things... I enjoy Bioware's style of storytelling and the love story aspect they add with the cutscenes.. some don't... I never said you actually said that.. I am merely stating the facts that people are complaining about nudity in romance scenes when the box warned them before hand.. If you are concerned about sexual content or if the sight of boobs make you squirm then you might want to rethink the love story aspect of the game..

[Iakus]

So I ask if Bioware is making games that you do not like, then why are you playing them and trolling the forum with complaints and arguing with people that actually enjoy the games?

Mass Effect has been a major disappointment, but on the whole, Bioware has made good games in the past.  As you can see on my avatar, I own quite a few of them (I go all the way back to BG1 in fact).

 

 If an opinion is contrary to yours, it is not "trolling". 

 

 

The hypersensitivity from some posters in this thread is real

/Trigger

It sure seems some people don't take well to having their opinions challenged doesn't it?  

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Ok, so instead of doing a compromise and allowing two roads for any romance, those roads being sexual relationship or platonic relationship, you think it should be strictly platonic or strictly sexual.. I'm not trying to be an a$$ here, I'm just trying to understand the point you're trying to make..

I know this wasn't directed at me, but all the same I would like to answer it. 

Personally, I think there should be three avenues that Bioware can explore when it comes to romances. 

 

1) Strictly platonic romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to have sex or not goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.

2) Strictly sexual romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to not have sex goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.

3) Open to either: This can be done a couple ways. The first being like you said having a part of the romance path involve the choice whether they two get sexually intimate rather than just romantically intimate or getting romantically intimate rather than just sexually intimate. The second is go the ambiguous route, which as it sounds doesn't have an explicit choice but leaves it open to interpretation. 

 

Unless the character and/or romance path fit ways 1 or 2, then they should go the way 3 route.

[Shechinah]

So I ask if Bioware is making games that you do not like, then why are you playing them and trolling the forum with complaints and arguing with people that actually enjoy the games?

Simply because you dislike aspects of a game and has complaints or suggestion of improvement about said aspects does not mean you dislike all aspects of a game.

[Jewellzify]

Mass Effect has been a major disappointment, but on the whole, Bioware has made good games in the past.  As you can see on my avatar, I own quite a few of them (I go all the way back to BG1 in fact).

 

This is not "trolling"  This is providing feedback on what I DO like so the forum doesn't become an echo chamber about what I DON'T like.   

 

 

It sure seems some people don't take well to having their opinions challenged doesn't it?  

 

If the forums have become an "echo chamber" for things you "don't like", and you continue to come back to the forum to voice your opinion and remind people who think differently how wrong they are for liking something you disagree with, then again I ask why do you continue playing the games? I have been a Bioware fan since BG as well and personally, I considered ME trilogy to be a very successful Bioware game for me personally, I enjoyed every aspect of the trilogy, which I know a lot of people had issues with ME, I am just not one of them..

 

"It sure seems some people don't take well to having their opinions challenged doesn't it?   "

[Jewellzify]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but all the same I would like to answer it. 

Personally, I think there should be three avenues that Bioware can explore when it comes to romances. 

 

1) Strictly platonic romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to have sex or not goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.

2) Strictly sexual romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to not have sex goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.

3) Open to either: This can be done a couple ways. The first being like you said having a part of the romance path involve the choice whether they two get sexually intimate rather than just romantically intimate or getting romantically intimate rather than just sexually intimate. The second is go the ambiguous route, which as it sounds doesn't have an explicit choice but leaves it open to interpretation. 

 

Unless the character and/or romance path fit ways 1 or 2, then they should go the way 3 route.

 

This was my point, Bioware should make all LI NPC open to both a platonic or sexual relationship and the PC can decide which way to take their romance.. Do I think this will happen, probably not, but it's a theory that makes everyone happy regardless.. This way everyone can romance who they want the way the want...

[Pasquale1234]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but all the same I would like to answer it. 
Personally, I think there should be three avenues that Bioware can explore when it comes to romances. 
 
1) Strictly platonic romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to have sex or not goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.
2) Strictly sexual romances: There are a number of characters and stories that can only be told this way and even having the option to not have sex goes against the character and/or the romance path. The choice could still be there, just it won't happen and could lead to consequences.
3) Open to either: This can be done a couple ways. The first being like you said having a part of the romance path involve the choice whether they two get sexually intimate rather than just romantically intimate or getting romantically intimate rather than just sexually intimate. The second is go the ambiguous route, which as it sounds doesn't have an explicit choice but leaves it open to interpretation. 
 
Unless the character and/or romance path fit ways 1 or 2, then they should go the way 3 route.

I'll give it a like because I've certainly seen worse ideas.

Still, I think I prefer ambiguity - unless you're dealing with an LI (like Isabela) who might be expected to insist on sex or Sebastian who would refuse it. Either way, I prefer fade-to-black.

But I just generally prefer role-playing freedom over loads of detailed cut-scenes.

[Jewellzify]

I'll give it a like because I've certainly seen worse ideas.

Still, I think I prefer ambiguity - unless you're dealing with an LI (like Isabela) who might be expected to insist on sex or Sebastian who would refuse it. Either way, I prefer fade-to-black.

But I just generally prefer role-playing freedom over loads of detailed cut-scenes.

 

I enjoy the cut scenes that Bioware offers and I personally think it sets them apart from other game devs like Bethesda. Games like Fallout and Elder Scrolls always left something to be desired for me.. The companions always seemed lacking to me.. I guess I have been spoiled by Bioware story telling ability . If the cut scenes are an issue for you though and if you haven't tried the Fallout or Elder Scrolls games, they may be right up your alley.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

It's not that men want sex more, it's that earlier in life they want sex more. Once a woman hits about 35-40, she becomes all about sex. This is right when their sexual prime is happening. In fact, I would say that women want sex more than guys do, but that's from personal experience. BTW, I'm not trying to inflate my own ego. I'm not getting laid every night. But from the women that I've known, this is the case.

True. I'm not looking forward to a waning libido. So the Cougar phenomenon is probably related to women hitting their sexual peak during middle age...interesting.

[Jewellzify]

Simply because you dislike aspects of a game and has complaints or suggestion of improvement about said aspects does not mean you dislike all aspects of a game.

 

My point still being, if you don't like a certain aspect of a game, why take the paths to lead to content that you dislike and then complain about it later? To me this seems a bit silly.. If you don't like Nudity and the box says that the game contains nudity and if you played DA series, or ME trilogy, you know there are sex scenes related to romance options, why would you complete the steps to get the content.. To me that's like complaining that you burned your hand when you intentionally put your hand in the fire...

[Hanako Ikezawa]

This was my point, Bioware should make all LI NPC open to both a platonic or sexual relationship and the PC can decide which way to take their romance.. Do I think this will happen, probably not, but it's a theory that makes everyone happy regardless.. This way everyone can romance who they want the way the want...

That's not my point though. You're misunderstanding. Sure, for the majority of the romances I agree that there should be an option, either explicitly with a choice or implicitly with it being left ambiguous. However, that won't work for some characters or stories they might want to tell. 

 

To use a non-Bioware game example, the relationship like the one between Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye would be under the route 1 I mentioned. In the series, those two characters are clearly in love with each other and pretty much everybody knew it, however they don't sleep together or even flirt because they were both soldiers so it went against regulations, as well as they simply didn't want or need that from each other. If Bioware made a romance or character like them, having the option to have the couple become sexually intimate would go against the character and the tone of the romance. 

 

Likewise, there are characters where not having sex with them wouldn't work since it would go against the character or the tone as well. Bioware has done a few romances like these, like with Isabela and The Iron Bull.

 

 

I'll give it a like because I've certainly seen worse ideas.

Still, I think I prefer ambiguity - unless you're dealing with an LI (like Isabela) who might be expected to insist on sex or Sebastian who would refuse it. Either way, I prefer fade-to-black.

But I just generally prefer role-playing freedom over loads of detailed cut-scenes.

I definitely prefer ambiguity over an explicit choice and fade to black to actual sex scenes as well. I'm just saying there are some characters and/or story paths that do require one or the other, like the examples you mentioned. 

[Pasquale1234]

My point still being, if you don't like a certain aspect of a game, why take the paths to lead to content that you dislike and then complain about it later? To me this seems a bit silly.. If you don't like Nudity and the box says that the game contains nudity and if you played DA series, or ME trilogy, you know there are sex scenes related to romance options, why would you complete the steps to get the content.. To me that's like complaining that you burned your hand when you intentionally put your hand in the fire...

You might notice that this forum is for a game that has not yet been released. All that anyone can do at this point is talk about what they think they might like to see in the game.

You keep accusing people of accessing content and then complaining about it, but the content for this game is not even available.

[Shechinah]

My point still being, if you don't like a certain aspect of a game, why take the paths to lead to content that you dislike and then complain about it later? To me this seems a bit silly.. If you don't like Nudity and the box says that the game contains nudity and if you played DA series, or ME trilogy, you know there are sex scenes related to romance options, why would you complete the steps to get the content.. To me that's like complaining that you burned your hand when you intentionally put your hand in the fire...

 

I'll see if I can provide a satisfactory explaination: The path leads to content someone may dislike but the path also leads to content someone may like. In this case, the path is a romance and romance is not composed solely of one aspect so someone may like the content pertaining to one or more aspects but dislike the content pertaining to one or more aspects especially if the latter content is mandatory.  
 

[Jewellzify]

That's not my point though. You're misunderstanding. Sure, for the majority of the romances I agree that there should be an option, either explicitly with a choice or implicitly with it being left ambiguous. However, that won't work for some characters or stories they might want to tell. 

 

To use a non-Bioware game example, the relationship like the one between Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye would be under the route 1 I mentioned. In the series, those two characters are clearly in love with each other and pretty much everybody knew it, however they don't sleep together or even flirt because they were both soldiers so it went against regulations, as well as they simply didn't want or need that from each other. If Bioware made a romance or character like them, having the option to have the couple become sexually intimate would go against the character and the tone of the romance. 

 

Likewise, there are characters where not having sex with them wouldn't work since it would go against the character or the tone as well. Bioware has done a few romances like these, like with Isabela and The Iron Bull.

 

 

I definitely prefer ambiguity over an explicit choice and fade to black to actual sex scenes as well. I'm just saying there are some characters and/or story paths that do require one or the other, like the examples you mentioned. 

 

I wasn't saying it was your point, I was explaining that the point I was trying to make was similar to what you are mentioning, but instead of having certain LI NPC have strict ways of romancing, they have a platonic option or a sexual option for all LI NPCs... This would not affect story telling or compromise the character in any way.. Sera for example could have the sexual relationship cut scene that we receive in DAI, but platonically you could romance her, but instead of a sex scene you get a scene of the Inquisitor and Sera baking cookies together... I do understand your points you are making, but I am only stating that by making all LI NPCs platonic and sexual, everyone would be happy, but I don't see this happening..

[Jewellzify]

You might notice that this forum is for a game that has not yet been released. All that anyone can do at this point is talk about what they think they might like to see in the game.

You keep accusing people of accessing content and then complaining about it, but the content for this game is not even available.

 

If you read my post, I said "in games such as DAI or ME" because you are right, we are talking about a game that we literally only know the title of.. This thread is asking about nudity and the people who are stating that they do not agree with DAI's nudity obviously took the steps to get to the nudity in the first place after being warned by the ERSB rating.. My point being, when this game is released and an ERSB rating has been established, don't take the steps that lead to content you dislike only to complain later...

[Jewellzify]

I'll see if I can provide a satisfactory explaination: The path leads to content someone may dislike but the path also leads to content someone may like. In this case, the path is a romance and romance is not composed solely of one aspect so someone may like the content pertaining to one or more aspects but dislike the content pertaining to one or more aspects especially if the latter content is mandatory.  
 

 

I get what you are saying, however, if the box says Nudity, that should clue you in that the romance scenes that you are engaging may contain content you dislike or disagree with.. I guess I am ignorant when it comes to why people would indulge in content when it will likely lead to content that they will not like..

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

I wasn't saying it was your point, I was explaining that the point I was trying to make was similar to what you are mentioning, but instead of having certain LI NPC have strict ways of romancing, they have a platonic option or a sexual option for all LI NPCs... This would not affect story telling or compromise the character in any way.. Sera for example could have the sexual relationship cut scene that we receive in DAI, but platonically you could romance her, but instead of a sex scene you get a scene of the Inquisitor and Sera baking cookies together... I do understand your points you are making, but I am only stating that by making all LI NPCs platonic and sexual, everyone would be happy, but I don't see this happening..

You never know. And they might as well make it so it can satisfy both sides that way it won't be complaints on either side.

[Jewellzify]

You never know. And they might as well make it so it can satisfy both sides that way it won't be complaints on either side.

 

True, but if you watch the Game on Games: What is Fun? Bioware vid I posted earlier, Bioware is aware that not everyone will be happy and there in no way to please everyone... Even if they were to integrate platonic and sexual relationships for all LI NPCs someone somewhere would still be unhappy...

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Your opinions are objectively wrong. Stop trying to pass them off as facts.

Ok what is it that I'm wrong about?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I wasn't saying it was your point, I was explaining that the point I was trying to make was similar to what you are mentioning, but instead of having certain LI NPC have strict ways of romancing, they have a platonic option or a sexual option for all LI NPCs... This would not affect story telling or compromise the character in any way.. Sera for example could have the sexual relationship cut scene that we receive in DAI, but platonically you could romance her, but instead of a sex scene you get a scene of the Inquisitor and Sera baking cookies together... I do understand your points you are making, but I am only stating that by making all LI NPCs platonic and sexual, everyone would be happy, but I don't see this happening..

And like I said, in most cases I agree with you. There are just some romances where if told would not work with sex being an option for it, and there are romances that wouldn't work if it was possible to not have sex involved. 

 

I do agree I don't see either what you or I want happening. I see them having a few have sex be optional but others if not most have it be mandatory.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

True, but if you watch the Game on Games: What is Fun? Bioware vid I posted earlier, Bioware is aware that not everyone will be happy and there in no way to please everyone... Even if they were to integrate platonic and sexual relationships for all LI NPCs someone somewhere would still be unhappy...

You can't make everyone happy yes that's true to a degree, but they will always be complainers who wants to complain yes, I think most of it is they want to complain just to get attention. Or hating on good games. People are confusing sometimes......

[Jewellzify]

And like I said, in most cases I agree with you. There are just some romances where if told would not work with sex being an option for it, and there are romances that wouldn't work if it was possible to not have sex involved. 

 

I do agree I don't see either what you or I want happening. I see them having a few have it be optional but others if not most have it be mandatory.

 

I don't see that it would effect character build or story telling factors by offering platonic or sexual relationship options for all LI NPCs, because honestly sex is nature.. The only people that don't indulge in sex are priests and nuns and people abstaining until marriage.. So I can understand how a sexual relationship wouldn't work for characters such as Sabastian, but otherwise I don't think it would effect the character build or story telling too much to the point that it is out of place for a sexual relationship to be possible.. Even characters such as Josie and Solas, having a sexual relationship with either character wouldn't have completely destroyed the character build or storytelling for either character...

But yes, making everyone happy is a task that can never be accomplished unfortunately, in a Utopian society perhaps, but in this one, not so much

[aaarcher86]

So glad to see this place hasn't changed in any way

Same arguments. Same band of characters.

[DomeWing333]

To use a non-Bioware game example, the relationship like the one between Roy Mustang and Riza Hawkeye would be under the route 1 I mentioned. In the series, those two characters are clearly in love with each other and pretty much everybody knew it, however they don't sleep together or even flirt because they were both soldiers so it went against regulations, as well as they simply didn't want or need that from each other.

Well, that last point there is pretty debatable. There's nothing to suggest that Roy and Riza weren't sexually interested in each other, only that they didn't act on it because of their commitment to their duties. Take away the anti-fraternization code and those two would probably have been going at it like bunnies. Also, I would argue that flirting via passive aggressive jabs at each other's weaknesses still counts as flirting. 

 

But to bring it back to the subject at hand, even a relationship like Roy and Riza's could work with route 3. Someone like you might play it so that both characters remain firmly committed to strictly following the rules and staying platonic; others could play it to have them give into the moment one night but then decide to keep things professional for the sake of appearances. I don't think the latter scenario would be incompatible with those characters.

 

That being said, I can imagine romantic storylines in which it would be necessary to exclude sex even as a possibility. Weird alien biology, cultural restrictions, or just strong preference might make sex off-limits in an otherwise romantic relationship. But like relationships that absolutely require sex (Iron Bull from DAI is the only one I can think of), those are pretty rare. Most cases I could see going either way.

[BaaBaaBlacksheep]

Here ya go Elcor lol