281 réponses à ce sujet

[stysiaq]

Seeing this board flooded with questions about the shape and inclusivity of character creator/romance options made me realise how few are the questions regarding traditional RPG elements.

 

For example, how about giving me an opportunity to act evil, with evil consequences? One of my biggest problems with ME3 (I still didn't finish DA:I but I don't expect it to be an option there) was that I wasn't able to betray humanity or even be less of a wimp regarding that goddamn hoodie dream brat.

 

As I understand it we will come to a new galaxy as explorers first and foremost. Why not conquerors then? Why shouldn't we be able to do evil things to indigenous races, why not help exploiting the newly found planets a'la the Avatar antagonist? Of course, provided there will be some natives to be exploited there.

 

I'm quite tired of playing as a goody-two-shoes, even if I'm allowed to yell at some people while being a goody-two-shoes (see ME3).

[Queen Skadi]

I agree with you, I would love it if the game gave the freedom to create the character they want to create even if that character is a reprehensible douchebag but but Bioware seems to like to focus on the "heroic" angle where you are the hero who does heroic things and I am not sure that is going to change in Andromeda.

[Lulupab]

You are as evil as evil can be in ME3. The reapers are a threat to you personally, so you have to stop them. But you can be an outright psychopath and evil with how you handle Krogan, Quarian/geth issue etc...

[Panda]

I think you have always had option in ME and DA to be evil in some extent, but the extent can vary. I don't think I'd go with completely evil PC myself in terms of slavering alien races of Andromeda, committing genochides and that stuff. But I like having options that let us be at ruthless, uncaring and rude.

[Lulupab]

ME3 and DAO had the most options for evil choices.

 

Though personally I liked ME2 more. "Save the humans, damn the consequences". Renegade shepard is not "evil" in ME2, he just doesn't care most of the time. Also its fun to be bad cop.

[The Elder King]

Betraying humanity wouldn't have been evil. It'd have been moronic.

I kind of support the OP, but it should be noted that some people might have a different definition of evil compared to others. They might add some option I'd consider evil and You don't, for example.

[Metalfros]

Still think ME3 did it pretty good on that point. I mean, who the hell does Shepard think he is that he can decide what race is allowed to live on and which one not? I know there isn't an option to screw over your own race or the rest of the galaxy, but that kind of a choice would make no sense as he would die than.

[The Elder King]

ME3 and DAO had the most options for evil choices.
 
Though personally I liked ME2 more. "Save the humans, damn the consequences". Renegade shepard is not "evil" in ME2, he just doesn't care most of the time. Also its fun to be bad cop.

Which options do you consider evil in ME3?

[fhs33721]

What? With all the potential genocide, backstabbing/(backshooting?) and randomly executing people Shepard can already get away with in the ME trilogy the only way for the new protagonist to come off as even more of an "evil" (since people will inevitably try to say wannabe deep philosopical things like "there is no evil. Only different perpectives." we can also call it "being a huge d*ck from the standpoint of the currently predominant western morals" instead of "evil". ) person would probably be to publicly throw alien babies and puppies into a meat grinder on the andromeda version of the citadel while laughing maniacally.

But, meh ok why not. Let Bioware include this option for the "muhahaha lol evil crowd" if they want.

[Lulupab]

Which options do you consider evil in ME3?

 

Emphasize on "consider".

 

Letting the Quarians die

Manipulating the Krogan race, shooting Mordin in the back to stop him from applying the cure, killing Wrex when he finds out

Letting Samara commit suicide and then killing her last daughter.

[Metalfros]

Emphasize on "consider".

 

Letting the Quarians die

Manipulating the Krogan race, shooting Mordin in the back to stop him from applying the cure, killing Wrex when he finds out

Letting Samara commit suicide and then killing her last daughter.

But letting the Geth die is okay?

[Lulupab]

But letting the Geth die is okay?

 

No, but I will have to read a library about AI to be able to make judgement. They "prefer" existing, they have no emotions, do not feel pain.

 

Legion attacks you if you side with Quarians but Tali doesn't when you side with Geth. Clear example of above.

 

So as I said, letting the geth "die" is not OK, but I don't see how machines can take priority over biological beings when a biological being is considering the decision, unless he decides a whole race should go extinct so that unpredictable machines with reaper codes can roam free.

[Panda]

Emphasize on "consider".

 

Letting the Quarians die

Manipulating the Krogan race, shooting Mordin in the back to stop him from applying the cure, killing Wrex when he finds out

Letting Samara commit suicide and then killing her last daughter.

 

Letting Quarians die can be headcanoned as evil, but I don't think it's evil by default. It depends on how you see Geth and their worth.

I think you can headcanon those as ruthless, but not evil, but they seem to lean more on evil size.

That's pretty evil ^^

[The Elder King]

Emphasize on "consider".
 
Letting the Quarians die
Manipulating the Krogan race, shooting Mordin in the back to stop him from applying the cure, killing Wrex when he finds out
Letting Samara commit suicide and then killing her last daughter.

Understood .I don't consider them evil (Though I didn't pick any of them in my Canon because I prefer compromise, curing genophage and save Samara and her daughter), but it goes back to What I said before. People have different definition for evil.

[Lulupab]

Yeah, if we are really going to call them evil, it would fall under "lawful evil". They are indeed ruthless at best, but we are the person saving the galacy from reapers so even if the reason is simply survival, it makes all the decision lean towards grey, no matter how evil they are.

 

Random killings with renegade interrupts made me cringe at times. 

[Laughing_Man]

ME3 had a few harsh decisions, but calling them "evil", is very subjective.

 

The Krogan led by Wreav, are already dreaming about geysers of blood. There is no real reason to hope for a reform or any kind of change.

Tricking them simply makes sense.

 

The Quarians are nice and all, but if you can't force a peace agreement, you have to pick the side which will be more helpful against the Reapers.

The Geth know more about Reaper code than anyone else, due to first hand experience. Are they preferable to the Quarians against the Reapers?

That's the decision you need to make, it may be harsh, but I don't see outright evil here.

[Panda]

No, but I will have to read a library about AI to be able to make judgement. They "prefer" existing, they have no emotions, do not feel pain.

 

Legion attacks you if you side with Quarians but Tali doesn't when you side with Geth. Clear example of above.

 

So as I said, letting the geth "die" is not OK, but I don't see how machines can take priority over biological beings when a biological being is considering the decision, unless he decides a whole race should go extinct so that unpredictable machines with reaper codes can roam free.

 

Geth and Quarian decision was the hardest and most grey decision from Bioware games for me to make. I remember sitting back and wondering about the decision and reloading it at least 3 times. First choose geth, then quarian, then settled down with geth. The decision really relies on what you see Geths as and do you value synthetics as high as biological beings and if lower how much lower. I did choose Geths personally in the end, cause they were the victims who Quarians were attacking with blind rage and revenge on their minds so I choose to defend Geths. Overall I think that quest was quite brilliant from Bioware cause it was so hard to make and there wasn't right and just choice in that one in my opinion

[shodiswe]

No, but I will have to read a library about AI to be able to make judgement. They "prefer" existing, they have no emotions, do not feel pain.
 
Legion attacks you if you side with Quarians but Tali doesn't when you side with Geth. Clear example of above.
 
So as I said, letting the geth "die" is not OK, but I don't see how machines can take priority over biological beings when a biological being is considering the decision, unless he decides a whole race should go extinct so that unpredictable machines with reaper codes can roam free.

It's surprising that Tali doesn't attack you, she just commits suicide.... Maybe because she had a crush on you? Most humans would probably attack an Alien that decided that the human race didn't need to exist any more. That should be the normal response.

Alien: I Think I'll let you all die, yeah, time to die humies.

Human: Oh, sobbs, kills him/her-self.

That makes sense?!?. I do think they did that with Tali to make people feel extra bad about the situation and tragedy of their people. It was hard to visualise, so they found a way to visualise her Death, Geth are programmed against killing or damaging themselves, according to lore. So it kind of wasn't an option for Legion. Not that I Think it would make sense either.
So instead they made it extra brutal instead. Judgedread verdict and a slow brutal execution.

[themikefest]

Is this considered an evil playthrough? I don't. I look at as my femshep getting the job done. 

 

ME1/ME2 had some nice renegade/ruthless choices. ME3 lacked a lot in the renegade/ruthless department. I would've added a lot more renegade interrupts that would lead to very violent results or even cruel results, and they would've be justified. If no interrupts, I would have at least added some very harsh dialogue.

[AlexiaRevan]

It's surprising that Tali doesn't attack you, she just commits suicide.... Maybe because she had a crush on you? Most humans would probably attack an Alien that decided that the human race didn't need to exist any more. That should be the normal response.

Alien: I Think I'll let you all die, yeah, time to die humies.

Human: Oh, sobbs, kills him/her-self.

That makes sense?!?. I do think they did that with Tali to make people feel extra bad about the situation and tragedy of their people. It was hard to visualise, so they found a way to visualise her Death, Geth are programmed against killing or damaging themselves, according to lore. So it kind of wasn't an option for Legion. Not that I Think it would make sense either.
So instead they made it extra brutal instead. Judgedread verdict and a slow brutal execution.

It make sense because she is seeing her peoples die before her..and wanted to die with them.....

[The Elder King]

I think both reactions Are realistic. Some people would react as Tali, others like Legion.

[Laughing_Man]

 I do think they did that with Tali to make people feel extra bad about the situation and tragedy of their people.

 

Yup. It was all about the feelz. It could also be that at some level she was conflicted herself about the decision, due to guilt or other reasons.

(after all, the Quarians acted rather idiotically, starting a war just before the Reaper invasion)

[Lulupab]

ME3 had a few harsh decisions, but calling them "evil", is very subjective.

 

The Krogan led by Wreav, are already dreaming about geysers of blood. There is no real reason to hope for a reform or any kind of change.

Tricking them simply makes sense.

 

The Quarians are nice and all, but if you can't force a peace agreement, you have to pick the side which will be more helpful against the Reapers.

The Geth know more about Reaper code than anyone else, due to first hand experience. Are they preferable to the Quarians against the Reapers?

That's the decision you need to make, it may be harsh, but I don't see outright evil here.

 

But what if its Wrex? People keep playing the Wreav card when asked about genophage. With Wrex as leader, tricking them is more than simple harshness.

 

 

Geth and Quarian decision was the hardest and most grey decision from Bioware games for me to make. I remember sitting back and wondering about the decision and reloading it at least 3 times. First choose geth, then quarian, then settled down with geth. The decision really relies on what you see Geths as and do you value synthetics as high as biological beings and if lower how much lower. I did choose Geths personally in the end, cause they were the victims who Quarians were attacking with blind rage and revenge on their minds so I choose to defend Geths. Overall I think that quest was quite brilliant from Bioware cause it was so hard to make and there wasn't right and just choice in that one in my opinion

 

Of course I prefer the ceasefire, but siding with Geth really needs a huge leap of faith when Shepard has spent all those years fighting Geth and AI in general and half the Geth went nuts at some point. I punched that Quarian admiral which I don't even remember the name of, and it gave me a lot of satisfaction to do it. I think Quarians deserve a good spanking.  

 

Looking at it with the view of "who will be useful against reapers" is probably the best justification one can have for siding with the Geth, but its pretty ruthless to base the decision of letting a race getting extinct on what they will provide you with in war.

[AlexiaRevan]

But what if its Wrex? People keep playing the Wreav card when asked about genophage. With Wrex as leader, tricking them is more than simple harshness.

 

 

 

Of course I prefer the ceasefire, but siding with Geth really needs a huge leap of faith when Shepard has spent all those years fighting Geth and AI in general and half the Geth went nuts at some point. I punched that Quarian admiral which I don't even remember the name of, and it gave me a lot of satisfaction to do it. I think Quarians deserve a good spanking.  

 

Looking at it with the view of "who will be useful against reapers" is probably the best justification one can have for siding with the Geth, but its pretty ruthless to base the decision of letting a race getting extinct on what they will provide you with in war.

Not really , you could say the same about every specie . You fough krogan , asari , salarian , batarian , vorcha..etc . 

 

So really , only someone who can't make a good judgement that the situation is dire will go with extinct X.....

[shodiswe]

The problem with most of the Mass Effect trilogy Renegade/Evil(if you like) choices is that they are meaningless cruelties. It's more like being a bully for no reason and no real reward.
Punching Han Gerrel was rewarding in itself, but in general I didn't feel like most other Renegade responses were warranted.


Mass Effect choices.

Scenario:
Salarian waiter brings you your coffe, asks you if you want milk or suggar.

Paragon: Milk, thank you very much.
Salarian: Do you want our special Shepard cake? It's on the house!

Renegade: Why can't you remember that the Shepard wants Milk to his/her coffe? *Shepard grabs the Salarian and shoves him into the garbage shute.* *Goes back to drinking the coffe black, annoyed that they forgot the milk*


Most Renegade responses commes across as being a stupid brute who endup loosing out due to it, or gain nothing.