For example, how about giving me an opportunity to act evil, with evil consequences? One of my biggest problems with ME3 (I still didn't finish DA:I but I don't expect it to be an option there) was that I wasn't able to betray humanity or even be less of a wimp regarding that goddamn hoodie dream brat.
This is what's called stupid evil, If you betray Humanity, who are you going to turn to?
What is humanity? It is a complex organism that acts in every way like an invasive species within its biosphere. It is a threat to every other living organism that inhabits the same space.
They use the remains of living organisms to power their engines - strip the planet of resources to build monuments to their greatness - and have zero regard for anything but themselves. If it were a fantasy tale - they'd be the orcs of Mordor.
The Reapers should have been the good guys in this story, but Bioware zigged when they should have zagged.
IF I were the type to regard the viability of over 9 million animal species - and 400,000 plant species - over one monkey that talks and destroys its own living space. Sure, I'd wipe us out.
The funny thing is, the human race that you seem to hate so much, was made and shaped by nature.
Most of our nasty demons? Merely evolved versions of basic animal instincts.
The cosmic dice dictated that it would be the evolved monkey that will dominate the earth.
It could have been evolved felines, or equines, and the results would have still been the same.
Nature has done a very methodical work to ingrain certain instincts of survival and self preservation in every living being.
Humans have merely taken these instincts a few steps forward, we don't only think about our next meal, but we still like to assure ourselves
all the time that our ability to survive and thrive is still intact. All as nature "intended".
I suspect that you would be one of very few people to enjoy a conclusion where the Reapers kill every human to "save nature".
I'm glad that bioware did not go in this direction, the ending was bad enough as it is.
Go play Hatred then. I mean 100% Renegade Shepard is one of the most vile characters in video games a tyrannical racist who commits acts of cold blooded murder, treason, sedition, and multiple genosides. .
Renegade Shepard never commits treason or sedition against his/her own race(on the contrary, s/he causes it to ascend in power) or murder(which is unjustified killing). The "genocides" were against major threats to the galaxy at large, not just humans, and in the case of the krogans, renshep merely allows them to kill themselves off with their own savage stupidity.
It didn't seem a human fleet to me.
When controlled by Renegade Shep it is.
@The Heretic of Time: It painfully kills me to agree with KainD on any topic.
What is humanity? It is a complex organism that acts in every way like an invasive species within its biosphere. It is a threat to every other living organism that inhabits the same space.
They use the remains of living organisms to power their engines - strip the planet of resources to build monuments to their greatness - and have zero regard for anything but themselves. If it were a fantasy tale - they'd be the orcs of Mordor.
The Reapers should have been the good guys in this story, but Bioware zigged when they should have zagged.
IF I were the type to regard the viability of over 9 million animal species - and 400,000 plant species - over one monkey that talks and destroys its own living space. Sure, I'd wipe us out.
So you would Leroy Jenkins your own species due to some silly notion that they are the only animals capable of destroying their own environment. Well I have some bad news for you. Any species that reproduces in abundance and have no predator will do the same. This is why wolves were introduced into the Yellowstone Park years ago. Because the deer were killing off their environment and their numbers needed to be kept stable. As a result, plant life began to grow more, other animals returned to the area, rivers were made, and the entire landscape was less barren and changed for the better.
The key is not "kill until extinct", but population control. Which is another reason why I agree with the Genophange. Eve confuses the fact that her planet is recovering with a meaning that her people should also be allowed to revive in full force. Um no Eve, the planet is able to recover because there is so few of you to mess it up. At least in the MEU Humans can set up colonies and reduce the stress on the planets they inhabit as a result. Something the Krogan race can't do because of how highly they reproduce.
This is what's called stupid evil, If you betray Humanity, who are you going to turn to?
More to the point, who's going to turn to you? No one likes traitors.
The key is not "kill until extinct", but population control. Which is another reason why I agree with the Genophange. Eve confuses the fact that her planet is recovering with a meaning that her people should also be allowed to revive in full force. Um no Eve, the planet is able to recover because there is so few of you to mess it up. At least in the MEU Humans can set up colonies and reduce the stress on the planets they inhabit as a result. Something the Krogan race can't do because of how highly they reproduce.
They sadly removed all the nuance of the genophage subplot that was present in ME1 and 2 in 3, where the message was that the genophage wasn't what was killing the krogan, but their violent nature and refusal to advance their society. Wrex talked about it in ME1 and his reforms in 2 were meant to further that, but then comes along 3 and tells us that what's killing them is their inability to multiply like rats. Smh.
Fair enough, I probably remember it wrong.Renegade Shepard never commits treason or sedition against his/her own race(on the contrary, s/he causes it to ascend in power) or murder(which is unjustified killing). The "genocides" were against major threats to the galaxy at large, not just humans, and in the case of the krogans, renshep merely allows them to kill themselves off with their own savage stupidity.
When controlled by Renegade Shep it is.
To me Mass Effect 2 did it best in terms of gameplay consequences. If you don't shoot the gas line and set the Krogan running his mouth on fire it meant you'd have to fight a miniboss with mooks, rather than just mooks. Choosing to electrocute the Batarian mechanic means the airship has a lot less health, which will save your butt on Insanity.
In ME3 it was more about the story. I don't really see how one can say renegade choices are cruel for cruelties sake. There are real conclusions for why one would choose to cure the genophage or trick the Krogan, whether or not Wrex was in charge. If you are like me and think the Quarians have doomed themselves time and again you side with the Geth and betray one of your most loyal crew members if there was no other way. Or you trust Wrex enough to save his people, or you still think Geth are just machines and are lesser to organics (or still aren't convinced they're free from Reaper manipulation) and choose the Quarians.
ME3 was the only game where Shepard felt like a truly despicable person as a Renegade. It was still for what they viewed as necessary to save the universe, but by the end of the game you could have shot the VS yourself, doomed the Krogan race to extinction and kill Wrex, betrayed and lead Tali and her people to her death, or kill Legion yourself. You could then become a Reaper controller god who vows to violently destroy any race that tries to threaten galactic peace.
I feel like the next game simply needs to mix the gameplay and story consequences together. In regards to morality your choices actually did have an impact on your experience. It's time to stop pretending like every choice in the trilogy was meaningless just because it didn't come into play in the original ending (even though they do in the EC which there is undeniable proof of). Choices mattered about as much as any other game series. People just seem to expect a completely different game for every choice they make.
@The Heretic of Time: It painfully kills me to agree with KainD on any topic.
What is humanity? It is a complex organism that acts in every way like an invasive species within its biosphere. It is a threat to every other living organism that inhabits the same space.
They use the remains of living organisms to power their engines - strip the planet of resources to build monuments to their greatness - and have zero regard for anything but themselves. If it were a fantasy tale - they'd be the orcs of Mordor.
The Reapers should have been the good guys in this story, but Bioware zigged when they should have zagged.
IF I were the type to regard the viability of over 9 million animal species - and 400,000 plant species - over one monkey that talks and destroys its own living space. Sure, I'd wipe us out.
Wow, you so edgy.
They sadly removed all the nuance of the genophage subplot that was present in ME1 and 2 in 3, where the message was that the genophage wasn't what was killing the krogan, but their violent nature and refusal to advance their society. Wrex talked about it in ME1 and his reforms in 2 were meant to further that, but then comes along 3 and tells us that what's killing them is their inability to multiply like rats. Smh.
Bingo!
Wrex tells us that the genophange isn't the cause of their near extinction. They bombed and killed each other like crazy. If the Krogan didn't reduce their own numbers so rapidly they wouldn't have never been on the verge of extinction. Even Mordin says that the genophange is not a tool of extinction. All it did was prevent them from having an overabundance of children. Nothing more and nothing less. The Krogan brought their end on themselves.
Yeah, I understand that they want the cure, but I don't understand Why They changed Wrex's reasoning.Bingo!
Wrex tells us that the genophange isn't the cause of their near extinction. They bombed and killed each other like crazy. If the Krogan didn't reduce their own numbers so rapidly they wouldn't have never been on the verge of extinction. Even Mordin says that the genophange is not a tool of extinction. All it did was prevent them from having an overabundance of children. Nothing more and nothing less. The Krogan brought their end on themselves.
Since there aren Krogans in MEA, they didn't brought their end yet.Bingo!
Wrex tells us that the genophange isn't the cause of their near extinction. They bombed and killed each other like crazy. If the Krogan didn't reduce their own numbers so rapidly they wouldn't have never been on the verge of extinction. Even Mordin says that the genophange is not a tool of extinction. All it did was prevent them from having an overabundance of children. Nothing more and nothing less. The Krogan brought their end on themselves.
Since there aren Krogans in MEA, they didn't brought their end yet.
Yeah, I understand that they want the cure, but I don't understand Why They changed Wrex's reasoning.
That was the most disappointing part of the ME3 arc. It looked like Wrex wanted to carve a new way for his people: a cultural Renaissance. But that got dropped. And I bet it got dropped because (1) they needed the same universal plot for him and Wreav and (2) there's no "hard choice" if Wrex thinks that the genophage, in the end, is not a catastrophe for his people.
I agree. Even Though I really liked the genophage arc, that was a disappointed. Though his plans still differ greatly from Wreav's.That was the most disappointing part of the ME3 arc. It looked like Wrex wanted to carve a new way for his people: a cultural Renaissance. But that got dropped. And I bet it got dropped because (1) they needed the same universal plot for him and Wreav and (2) there's no "hard choice" if Wrex thinks that the genophage, in the end, is not a catastrophe for his people.
I agree. Even Though I really liked the genophage arc, that was a bit of disappointed. Though his plans still differ greatly from Wreav's.
He's nut an imperalist nutcase. Wrex being dead makes siding with the Salarians pretty easy.
He's a moron too. The Council/salarians wouldn't hesitate (as Wrex fears) to do something Similar-worse then the genophage if the Krogans act as a Wreav wants.He's nut an imperalist nutcase. Wrex being dead makes siding with the Salarians pretty easy.
But Wrex always wanted to cure the Genophage, you even need to kill him if you cant talk him down.That was the most disappointing part of the ME3 arc. It looked like Wrex wanted to carve a new way for his people: a cultural Renaissance. But that got dropped. And I bet it got dropped because (1) they needed the same universal plot for him and Wreav and (2) there's no "hard choice" if Wrex thinks that the genophage, in the end, is not a catastrophe for his people.
He's a moron too. The Council/salarians wouldn't hesitate (as Wrex fears) to do something Similar-worse then the genophage if the Krogans act as a Wreav wants.
That's what I don't get. Clearly (1) biological warfare nearly wiped them all out (2) the races are super willing to do it, 'cause it worked great the last time and (3) he's giving them every reason to pull the trigger again, while the last rebellion showed that even with a greater military and industrial base the krogan couldn't act fast enough to win the war.
It's sheer idiotic suicide, like you said. Which is why Wrex made so much sense: the krogan need a new way.
But Wrex always wanted to cure the Genophage, you even need to kill him if you cant talk him down.
Wrex wanted to do more than cure the genophage: he wanted to re-create his people. He's talked down - via the paragon path - when you remind him that Saren would just use him as a tool. So then here you have ME3, where everyone wants to cure the genophage to use krogans as tools.
I don't see how he wanting to cure the Genophage contradições it.Wrex wanted to do more than cure the genophage: he wanted to re-create his people. He's talked down - via the paragon path - when you remind him that Saren would just use him as a tool. So then here you have ME3, where everyone wants to cure the genophage to use krogans as tools.
Nah, I don't want to be evil just for the sake of it. The choices you get should make sense, they should serve a purpose. I simply want a story that is immersive and somewhat logical. Take Shepard for example. As a Spectre one can of course say that the end justifies the means if the problem at hand is that dire. But if Shepard would be just a callous psychopath, who in the right mind would make him/her Spectre in the first place?. Leave the nonsensical viciousness to GTA or games like that.
Basically yes. What I'd honestly like to see the most is more really dorky responses, like mumbling something random as a password in ME1, but... 
The renegade way to make ceasefire is more believable than Paragon one.
I call my Shepard paragon, but he earned his share or renegade points (though less than paragon) in ME1, because I didn't trust yet the characters wouldn't lie, and because it felt more like the kind of talk certain type of personalities would listen to. In the ending I reasoned with Saren with mix of paragon and renegade arguments - one of my favorite moments in any game ever.
In ME2 and 3 I played as more hardcore paragon, don't remember anymore why. Maybe I didn't fancy the scars (though now I think they're wonderful idea, and during second playthrough I allowed Shepard to become more scarred, though it hardly showed visibly), or maybe more extreme playing style got favored increasingly? (I should play it again soon, apparently.)
Man, am I the only one that still kind of loves the resolution to Rannoch? People love to lambaste it now, but I remember having a ball when I first played it.
Somehow the characters I got killed during ME2 ending happened to be Tali and Legion. And I decided to live with that, convinced ME would be a game series I will play more than once. (I played the whole series at once, being newcomer like that.) Mass Effect 3 with a major party member absent made Normandy feel stangely empty at times, funny how one character can affect so much. After second playthrough everyone survived the suicide mission, and Rannoch events after that, being finally able to promote peace, felt nearly surreally touching.
...Saying this as a person who can't think of AI as actual character. I don't really care about geth, though Legion did good job convincing me (sad death scene in ME2 did help). But taking sides, when you could be talking sense to everyone, would feel awkward. You'd just need more information at that point, and you're running out of time.
The bad thing about Reaper's playing dumb on Citadel is that it could be avoided. Shepard had reaper IFF (TIM would likey have it too) so he could travel between systems almost freely, writers would have to write a lot of things differently (like singing "Be Prepared" song with turians instead of bravely killing some beasts), but it still could work out. Too bad they really needed to show these grand scale reaper invasions.
I don't see how he wanting to cure the Genophage contradições it.
He knows the Krogans need to fight against the Reapers, but he want to make sure they profit from it. It was his idea to cure the Genophage in trade for their cooperation.
True, but then the whole arc becomes about how the Genophage is the cause of their destruction. That's when Wrex begins to contradict himself.
@General TSAR: I am, in fact, very edgy. Thank you.
@Boost32: Being a "race traitor" is hardly something I'd care much about being called. It wouldn't be a moniker I would take as an insult if I were inclined to think in the way I posted.
@Hazegurl: You're aware the deer overpopulation is because men wiped out the original wolf population yeah?
@Tzeentchian Apostrophe: Yes, I agree - nature makes all sorts of things to wipe out populations. It's possible it designs sapient species to create extinction events (we're in one btw). Who am I to argue? We can't know for sure until we meet the next one and find out if they're equally as self-destructive.
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