281 réponses à ce sujet

[Boost32]

@General TSAR: I am, in fact, very edgy.  Thank you. 
 
@Boost32:  Being a "race traitor" is hardly something I'd care much about being called.  It wouldn't be a moniker I would take as an insult if I were inclined to think in the way I posted.  
 
@Hazegurl:  You're aware the deer overpopulation is because men wiped out the original wolf population yeah?  
 
@Tzeentchian Apostrophe:  Yes, I agree - nature makes all sorts of things to wipe out populations.  It's possible it designs sapient species to create extinction events (we're in one btw).  Who am I to argue?  We can't know for sure until we meet the next one and find out if they're equally as self-destructive.

It wasnt a offense, it was a statement.

[agonis]

Humans can only rely in their intellect, their ability to analize and learn from a situation, thats our gift.

We cant outrun a predator, we don't have the strenght to fight them, we cant climb trees fast enough, we cant fly, we cant hold our breath for a long time, we need water and food almost every day, if it wasnt for our intellect we would be extinct.

In nature, might makes right, so its our right to dominate this planet. Humans enslaved others lesser being to make food from them (be them animal, fungi or a plant), to amuse US (and call themselves pet), etc.
If another specie want to become the dominante one, they are welcome to try.

 

Humans, as you well know, enslaved not only lesser beings.

 

And if I were to invade your house, take your wife and children, because might is right, I doubt you would agree with it.

 

 

We, as a species, are powerfull, we are greedy, and we are assholes.

 

Nothing stops us.

 

But power is not what makes us human.

Sometimes survival for survival´s sake isn´t worth it.

[Boost32]

Humans, as you well know, enslaved not only lesser beings.
 
And if I were to invade your house, take your wife and children, because might is right, I doubt you would agree with it.
 
 
We, as a species, are powerfull, we are greedy, and we are assholes.
 
Nothing stops us.
 
But power is not what makes us human.
Sometimes survival for survival´s sake isn´t worth it.

Of course I wasnt going to agree, still I couldn't do nothing, if you were more powerful than me and enslaved me I would have only 2 choices, to obey or to die. So yes, might makes right.

We are what nature made us, if we werent we would be extinct, without us wanting to learning more we would live in caves or wipped out.

Survival for survival sake is the most basic instinct of any animal. If you need to eat the corpse of the dead to survive, you will do it, if you need to cannibalize someone to survive, you will do it.

[Ahriman]

Survival for survival sake is the most basic instinct of any animal. If you need to eat the corpse of the dead to survive, you will do it, if you need to cannibalize someone to survive, you will do it.

That's not really true. Humans are both social and individual animals, this allowed us to create functional society, that's why such things like honor, dedication and compassion exist. When society doesn't value these it falls apart, when society doesn't value individuals it stagnates.

[agonis]

Of course I wasnt going to agree, still I couldn't do nothing, if you were more powerful than me and enslaved me I would have only 2 choices, to obey or to die. So yes, might makes right.

We are what nature made us, if we werent we would be extinct, without us wanting to learning more we would live in caves or wipped out.

Survival for survival sake is the most basic instinct of any animal. If you need to eat the corpse of the dead to survive, you will do it, if you need to cannibalize someone to survive, you will do it.

 

Remind me to be never washed up on the shore of a lonely island with you, Boost.

 

Your culinary tastes are not to my liking. *laughs*

 

But I get your drift. Only, you are talking not of a human anymore but of an animal.

 

To kill or to obey and endure is not what makes us human.

 

Our instinct brought us far. I respect everyone of my furry ancestors who ripped some poor creature apart for two million years to make my existence possible. But still, instinct is not what makes us human or special.

[Boost32]

That's not really true. Humans are both social and individual animals, this allowed us to create functional society, that's why such things like honor, dedication and compassion exist. When society doesn't value these it falls apart, when society doesn't value individuals it stagnates.

And when society cant help you? Those things are all nice when society gives you food and water.
If you are lost, away from civilization, your survival will take precedence over the others, you will kill someone if its mean you will survive, you will eat corpse, mud out whatever you need to stay alive.

[BatarianBob]

Shouldn't be too surprising that Wrex doesn't think the krogan can deal with the genophage and fight a war at the same time. That was exactly the effect the genophage was designed for.

[agonis]

And when society cant help you? Those things are all nice when society gives you food and water.
If you are lost, away from civilization, your survival will take precedence over the others, you will kill someone if its mean you will survive, you will eat corpse, mud out whatever you need to stay alive.

 

I don´t know if there is a similar quote in English but in German it is called:

 

Die Menschheit ist eine Mahlzeit von der Barbarei entfernt.

 

(Humanity is only one meal away from barbarism)

[Boost32]

Remind me to be never washed up on the shore of a lonely island with you, Boost.
 
Your culinary tastes are not to my liking. *laughs*
 
But I get your drift. Only, you are talking not of a human anymore but of an animal.
 
To kill or to obey and endure is not what makes us human.
 
Our instinct brought us far. I respect everyone of my furry ancestors who ripped some poor creature apart for two million years to make my existence possible. But still, instinct is not what makes us human or special.

I don't think you should worry about it, I think we would die of thirst before we started thinking in killing each other. Don't know about you, but I don't know s*** about how to survive away from civilization.

But humans are animals, we like to think we are not, but thats not the truth.

What makes us humans is the ability to think, everything else any other animal can do.
And I dont think we are special, I just think since we are the apex of our planet we have the right ti rule it.

[agonis]

I don't think you should worry about it, I think we would die of thirst before we started thinking in killing each other. Don't know about you, but I don't know s*** about how to survive away from civilization.

But humans are animals, we like to think we are not, but thats not the truth.

What makes us humans is the ability to think, everything else any other animal can do.
And I dont think we are special, I just think since we are the apex of our planet we have the right ti rule it.

 

On a lonely island you would do well not to eat me. First, I know something about surviving away from civilisation. Second, I´m a doctor. Third, I´m charming.

 

Tell me, what are your redeeming qualities for me not to eat you?

 

 

And about the right to rule thing:

 

Rights are granted or taken. We took it.

[Ahriman]

And when society cant help you? Those things are all nice when society gives you food and water.
If you are lost, away from civilization, your survival will take precedence over the others, you will kill someone if its mean you will survive, you will eat corpse, mud out whatever you need to stay alive.

Humanity is there where there are more humans than one. You can kill and eat other to survive or just die few days later, or you can hope for the best and other may save your ass next day. There is no right answer when blind luck is in charge, that's how evolution works.

Besides there are numerous cases when one put lives of others before his own, if you think evolution cannot "encourage" such behaviour you are wrong.

[agonis]

*looking at the thread title*

I fear we took this thread into the dark forest of philosophy and left it there all alone...

[Boost32]

On a lonely island you would do well not to eat me. First, I know something about surviving away from civilisation. Second, I´m a doctor. Third, I´m charming.
 
Tell me, what are your redeeming qualities for me not to eat you?
 
 
And about the right to rule thing:
 
Rights are granted or taken. We took it.

In the wilds? Nothing, you would be better off without me, and you wouldnt even need to kill me, I pretty sure I would do something stupid and kill myself.

Humanity is there where there are more humans than one. You can kill and eat other to survive or just die few days later, or you can hope for the best and other may save your ass next day. There is no right answer when blind luck is in charge, that's how evolution works.
Besides there are numerous cases when one put lives of others before his own, if you think evolution cannot "encourage" such behaviour you are wrong.

I want you to tell me it when you are so hungry that it hurt so much and you cant think straight. The only hope you will have is that killing the other will gave you enough time to be saved, you might feel like **** after that, but it wouldnt change what you've done.

And all those cases have the people had a motive, be it patriotism or to save their loved ones, but if the only motive you have is survival, you will place yourself higher than a strange.

[The Heretic of Time]

So basically you want to pull a Leroy Jenkings and rush into attacking other alien species right off the bat? You do realize that this way to go about things could very well lead to humanities extinction 10 times more likely than waiting yes? At least in the MEU since pretty much everyone has a better military than humans (except batarians, and maybe Quarians).

Not to mention that the other council races works pretty well together and when you try to exterminate one you will most likely be curbstomped by their combined forces so hard that if you are lucky they'll only bomb you back to the stone ages (Ask the Rachni and the Krogans for reference if you don't believe me.).

 

Oh no, I absolutely do not suggest we should pull a Leroy Jenkins. That will get us extinct in no time. But I do suggest that we stand ready, stay vigilant and always assume the worst. We should be prepared and able to exterminate our alien brethren when they pose a realistic threat to us.

 

Basically the movie Ender's Game had it right. The aliens in that movie were a threat to humanity and so we had to exterminate them. Commiting genocide isn't pretty, but it's the only solution to ensure humanities safety.

 

Same thing with the krogans in Mass Effect. The genophage wasn't pretty, but it was necessary.
 

 

Consider this:

 

Imagine yourself taking a stroll through the park late at night. It would be nice to meet someone friendly, but you know that the park is dangerous at night. There's always a strong undercurrent of drug dealings, muggings, and occasional homicides.

It is not easy to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys. They dress alike, and their weapons are concealed. The only difference is intent, and you can't read minds.

 

Stay in the dark long enough and you may hear an occasional distance shriek or blunder across a body.

 

How do you survive the night? The last thing you want to do is shout, "I'm here!" The next to last thing you want to do is reply to someone who shouts, "I'm a friend!"

What you would like to do is find a policeman, or get out of the park. But you don't want to make noise or move towards a light where you might be spotted, and it is difficult to find either a policeman or your way out without making yourself known. Your safest option is to hunker down and wait for daylight, then safely walk out.

 

There are, of course, a few obvious differences between a nightly walk in the park and outer space.

 

In space there is no policeman.

 

In space there is no way out.

 

And in space the night never ends...

[Hazegurl]

@Hazegurl:  You're aware the deer overpopulation is because men wiped out the original wolf population yeah?  

 

There is nothing about my reply that says men are innocent, only that you mistaken if you believe that over consumption is strictly a trait of humans.  It's not.  Any animal would lay their area to waste if allowed to breed and go unchecked for a long time. That's nature.  Your solution is genocide on the human race, which is no better than the belief that driving the deer to extinction would fix Yellowstone.  It wouldn't have.  The answer is balance, not extinction. 

 

However, humans are rare in that we are self aware and can realize the affect we have on the world around us and work to repair it...at least most humans.  Some people still think climate change is a myth.

[Ahriman]

*looking at the thread title*

I fear we took this thread into the dark forest of philosophy and left it there all alone...

Damn. Please forgive me, evil volus overlord for derailing your thread.

So the point is, that being egoistic jerk who does everything on his way to power is realistic scenario. Make it happen, Bioware.

[In Exile]

Humans, as you well know, enslaved not only lesser beings.

And if I were to invade your house, take your wife and children, because might is right, I doubt you would agree with it.


We, as a species, are powerfull, we are greedy, and we are assholes.

Nothing stops us.

But power is not what makes us human.
Sometimes survival for survival´s sake isn´t worth it.

Animals aren't different. We've just developed more sophisticated ways of being cruel. But this weird exceptionalism - a kind of reverse humans are special trope, where our specialness is our ability to kill stuff or get off on suffering - isn't at all supported by our observations of reality.

[The Heretic of Time]

Animals aren't different. We've just developed more sophisticated ways of being cruel. But this weird exceptionalism - a kind of reverse humans are special trope, where our specialness is our ability to kill stuff or get off on suffering - isn't at all supported by our observations of reality.

 

Exactly.

 

I wanted to type a similar response to someone else in this thread ( @medhia_nox ) who made it seem like we humans are the big boogeymen and that animals are the innocent victims of our human exploits . There are a couple of objections I have to that:

1) Animals aren't inherently different. Or better said: humans are animals, just very smart animals. If dolphins would become as intelligent as humans, they'd do the same. In fact, we've already seen occasions of dolphins killing and raping for sports/pleasure. Dogs do the same. Cats do the same. Pretty much any semi-intelligent creature does the same. When we go to space, it's safe to assume that aliens will be no different.

2) Humans and our exploits aren't just for fun. Most humans aren't exactly happy about the effects that we have on our planet. This is actually unique to humans. Animals mostly don't give a jack about the negative effects they might have on their environment. Don't think for second that an eagle feels any remorse when he kills an endangered near-extinct turtle for lunch. Personally I don't really care too much about endangered species either. I know this sounds harsh, but it's the reality of life. Species come and go. From all the species that once lived on planet Earth, less than 0,1% is still alive today. It's just the reality of evolution and natural selection.

3) The idea that personal interests and the interests of humanity as a species can be mutually exclusive is laughable at best. If humanity is doomed, then so are you, because you are human too and you depend greatly on the well being of humanity, more than you might realize. When it comes to loyalty, I put family first, friends second, my neighborhood third, The Netherlands (my country) fourth, Europe fifth and humanity as a whole sixth. That's the way it should be.
Animals and aliens aren't even on that list. As much as I love animals, I have no obligation to be loyal to them. Humanity will always come first. Same with aliens.

[Schmonozov]

I hope, but there may be some moral outrage from some sensitive people if we can be truly evil.

[KainD]

I hope, but there may be some moral outrage from some sensitive people if we can be truly evil.

 

 

[stysiaq]

I hope, but there may be some moral outrage from some sensitive people if we can be truly evil.

 

People who pretend to get 'offended' by fiction are truly the supreme killjoys.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Our planet will easily continue, no matter what we do to the environment. We, as species, might not survive it though.

[Oni Changas]

I'll be sure to remember that the next time I watch the Geth blow the Quarians out of the sky, then I'll proceed to laugh harder than I'm doing right now.

Muh organics. LOL! Organic or not I will not step in to save them if their problems are self inflicted. As Shepard said to the Geth Prime in the aftermath, "They made their choice."

Their military leaders made those choices. Does Koris not exist to you dudes or something?

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Heretic of Time:  You're obviously in your right to disagree with me.  Just like I'd be in my right to take the side of anything you decided to oppress and destroy and fight you.  *shrugs*  If I destroy your side - no harm no foul - species die out all the time right? 

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Seeing this board flooded with questions about the shape and inclusivity of character creator/romance options made me realise how few are the questions regarding traditional RPG elements.

 

And anything else, for that matter. Weapons? Level scaling? Level design? Voice cast? Campaign co-op? These are all valid questions and are more relevant to making the game good than romance options.