281 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

 

 

How is killing Mordin evil? I'd argue that after listening to Wreav prattle on about eating salarians and making geysers of blood from his enemies, not killing Mordin can only be justified by being stupid evil and malicious, or worrying about if the Krogan will find out about the sabotage and back out. There's also the feels about shooting your friend, but ultimately that should be secondary.

 

Correct, Mordin wanted to allow an ultra-violent race of man-turtles to multiply like rats and spread through the galaxy. He got what was coming to him.

 

I beg to differ about him being my "friend" however, he betrayed my Shep's trust and essentially lied to her face after agreeing that his work on the genophage was good after destroying Maelon's data. I had no qualms with killing him after that.

[Hazegurl]

The quarians weren't in a 'Fight Geth or die' situation When they attacked the Geth though.

True and I used to think that the Quarians were wrong for attacking the Geth, but they needed a home world and it didn't seem like anyone was willing to take them in.  IMO, the Geth/Quarian war is a result of the Council not figuring out a way to resolve the matter much earlier. Neither the Quarians nor Geth had any support so they did what they had to do. 

 

 

Yes, Gerrel's orders, which were once again given BEFORE the requisite knowlege of geth capablities being given by any of his allies,.....

Whatever excuse you need to justify his stupidity go ahead and use it.  But it doesn't change the facts that he was not open to even hearing the reason why he needed to stop the attack.  He's told flat out that he would die if he kept firing and yet still ordered his fleet to keep firing. He's a special kind of stupid. 

 

Yes, he stands down after given new info, new info he was at first not open to hearing at all.  Shepard essentially has to talk over him just to give him the new info. smh.

 

Hate the writing if you like, but Gerrel is your hero because of the writing and that is how his character is written.  At this point you just want to cherry pick information.

 

I've said all I have to say about Gerrel Jenkins.  I know this is going to be nothing more than a never ending argument.  I'll stick with the topic from now on.

[shodiswe]

Man, am I the only one that still kind of loves the resolution to Rannoch? People love to lambaste it now, but I remember having a ball when I first played it.

I liked it, but it's not perfect, and the story is kind of out there. But it was pretty good, almost on par with the Krogan stuff. I enjoyed playing it even if some of it anoyed me, especialy all the stubborn Quarians that were arguing or trying to blow me up.
With certain ME2 choices the ME3 Rannoch timeline made more sense. If you told them to go to war in ME2 then you should be extatic, otherwise....

[Quarian Master Race]

Correct, Mordin wanted to allow an ultra-violent race of man-turtles to multiply like rats and spread through the galaxy. He got what was coming to him.

 

I beg to differ about him being my "friend" however, he betrayed my Shep's trust and essentially lied to her face after agreeing that his work on the genophage was good after destroying Maelon's data. I had no qualms with killing him after that.

Eh, I was just brainstorming possible reasons that would be motivated not purely by misguided feelz or intentional evil. If I want to sabotage, I don't put myself in a position to have to shoot Mordin anyway, though I did in my first playthrough. He was the one that decided to leak the damn info on the females to the krogan, after all.
 

Whatever excuse you need to justify his stupidity go ahead and use it.  But it doesn't change the facts that he was not open to even hearing the reason why he needed to stop the attack.  He's told flat out that he would die if he kept firing and yet still ordered his fleet to keep firing. He's a special kind of stupid. 

 

Yes, he stands down after given new info, new info he was at first not open to hearing at all.  Shepard essentially has to talk over him just to give him the new info. smh.

 

Hate the writing if you like, but Gerrel is your hero because of the writing and that is how his character is written.  At this point you just want to cherry pick information.

 

I've said all I have to say about Gerrel Jenkins.  I know this is going to be nothing more than a never ending argument.  I'll stick with the topic from now on.

How was he not open? He listens then stands down does he not? "Negative, we can win this war now" is a true statement given his knowledge of the tactical situation that you still haven't bothered to inform him of updates to. Special kind of stupid would be listening to ill supported advice (from someone who may or may not be a geth sympathizer, depending on previous dialogue) and not destroying the enemy while they are weak and disorganized.

No s/he doesn't have to talk over anyone. In fact there's enough time for a whole speech. I'm not cherry picking anything. Moreover, it's tertiary to the point being made. You're nitpicking irrelevancies that have no bearing on what actually happens because you dislike Gerrel.

It'll be you neverendingly getting rekt because you are still trying to fit the facts to a preconceived opinion rather than the other way around. Probably better that you admit defeat and give up.

[Barquiel]

Man, am I the only one that still kind of loves the resolution to Rannoch? People love to lambaste it now, but I remember having a ball when I first played it.

I have mixed feelings about how and why Legion died (I thought there was no good reason for him to perish besides adding some drama to the cutscene ), but I like the rest.

[Quarian Master Race]

The quarians weren't in a 'Fight Geth or die' situation When they attacked the Geth though.

They were in such a situation as much as the geth were when the latter decided to ally with the Reapers. You can't fight a war against the Reapers with your entire civilian population in the line of fire and expect many of them to survive. Rannoch was needed to offload the civilians to ensure the species survived the war, and the geth were an easy target given Xen's new weapon. Not taking the opportunity and gambling that the entire Fleet and population isn't wiped out in the battle against the Reapers would have been stupid.

 

Man, am I the only one that still kind of loves the resolution to Rannoch? People love to lambaste it now, but I remember having a ball when I first played it. 

I can like it if I play through it a certain way (don't activate Legion or kill it in ME2) but It's mostly for some of the feels and getting to work with the quarians. The writing itself is braindead stupid all over the place and craps on previously established characters and lore, especially in either of the outcomes that you allow the geth to have Reaper upgrades.

This hits most of the reasons as to why, though I don't agree with the value judgements on the geth and war

http://forum.bioware...l= rannoch arc

 

[The Elder King]

@Hazegurl: there Are plently of colonizable planets. One of them woudl've sufficed for the short term.

Also, I doubt the quarians ever considered talking with the Geth and finding a common ground due the Reaper threat.
Granted, the Council does have responsibility of this, but considering their idiocy in dealing with the Reaper threat, it's not really surprising.

[Mcfly616]

Man, am I the only one that still kind of loves the resolution to Rannoch? People love to lambaste it now, but I remember having a ball when I first played it. 

 I had chills throughout the entire Rannoch campaign during my first playthrough. I just knew things were coming to a head. The missions were fun (as well the overall atmosphere) and the music was on point. Even now that I've played it dozens of times over, it's still my favorite arc of the vanilla game. All the outcomes are pretty epic imo.

[Torgette]

So the only problem with this topic in general is whether they bring back the paragon/renegade system or not. To be honest, I prefer the vague system TW3 (and to some extent, DAI) has namely because content isn't locked behind being a comically good or evil choice. I'd rather replay a game with the promise that I can go in any direction and the choices make me think hard, not simply for shock value.

[Arcian]

I'm quite tired of playing as a goody-two-shoes, even if I'm allowed to yell at some people while being a goody-two-shoes (see ME3).

If you thought Renegade Shepard in ME3 was a goody-two-shoes, your senses are deader than Helen Keller's.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I'm pretty sure ME:A won't have the power to stop anyone from being evil.

[Boost32]

@Hazegurl: there Are plently of colonizable planets. One of them woudl've sufficed for the short term.
Also, I doubt the quarians ever considered talking with the Geth and finding a common ground due the Reaper threat.
Granted, the Council does have responsibility of this, but considering their idiocy in dealing with the Reaper threat, it's not really surprising.

No there aren't.
There are very few worlds who can support dextro life and that is not in the hands of the Turians. The only world avaliable was Rannoch.

[fyz306903]

The evil of colonizers is a matter of some debate.

Sure, it's a grey area, I was referring more to the racist 'we can have this land 'cos we've got guns' mentality rather than their direct actions. I'm going to stop this comparison, because I'm probably disobeying the forum rules... 

Still, we don't even knoe if the rest of the leak was true so this Khet race and...the other one may not even exist. 

[Mr_Commander_Shepard]

It would be cool if you could develop your story that way, but actually have the ability at the end to do the BAD thing, rather than just be "ruthless" the whole game. But I think ME is more about being the hero than the villian, so I personally think that you won't be able to be evil.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Sure, it's a grey area, I was referring more to the racist 'we can have this land 'cos we've got guns' mentality rather than their direct actions.

That's not racist. That's just might makes right.

[Oni Changas]

But letting the Geth die is okay?

Yes, they are machines. Machines can be rebuilt into new machines albeit different personalities, but could still be physically be Geth. Quarians are an organic race, one of whom you have befriended or allowed into your crew, whose people never wanted war and unlike the Geth aren't interested in using reaper tech to further themselves out of the blue. You can't recreate quarian children when the whole race is wiped out.

[Seboist]

I'm still bummed that we couldn't gain control of the Geth via research from Admiral Xen and Project Overlord. That should've been the renegade "gain both sides" path.

[Daemul]

Yes, they are machines. Machines can be rebuilt into new machines albeit different personalities, but could still be physically be Geth. Quarians are an organic race, one of whom you have befriended or allowed into your crew, whose people never wanted war and unlike the Geth aren't interested in using reaper tech to further themselves out of the blue. You can't recreate quarian children when the whole race is wiped out.

I'll be sure to remember that the next time I watch the Geth blow the Quarians out of the sky, then I'll proceed to laugh harder than I'm doing right now.

Muh organics. LOL! Organic or not I will not step in to save them if their problems are self inflicted. As Shepard said to the Geth Prime in the aftermath, "They made their choice."

[Panda]

Yes, they are machines. Machines can be rebuilt into new machines albeit different personalities, but could still be physically be Geth. Quarians are an organic race, one of whom you have befriended or allowed into your crew, whose people never wanted war and unlike the Geth aren't interested in using reaper tech to further themselves out of the blue. You can't recreate quarian children when the whole race is wiped out.

 

Not completely. They are synthetics. The whole reason Quarians wanted to shut them down and Geth fought against that was, because they aren't simply machines.

 

You have also befriended Geth in same way as Quarian and allowed him in your crew.

 

Quarians were the one's who wanted war, Geth didn't want war with Quarians at all.

[RatThing]

Quarians were the one's who wanted war, Geth didn't want war with Quarians at all.

 

Then the Geth should have left Rannoch. Most Quarians want war because they want their homeworld back. Given their situation I fully understand this. And I won't change my mind just because the writer decide to demonize this position and turn the war supporting Quarians into reckless madmen. In general and provided they have a chance (which they have), war is the right thing here and I always supported it during Tali's trial. War with the whole fleet and with all civilians on board is of course part of the demonization.

[themikefest]

The geth and Quarians is a case of dumb and dumber. The Quarians going to war while the reapers invade the galaxy and the geth for siding with the reapers. Usually by the time I meet the Quarians, I have enough war assets for the ending I want. Too bad I can't just ignore them and go straight to Thessia.

 

Its funny watching Raan and Tali stand around like the dumba**es they are while the code is being uploaded. Had it been me, I would've done everything possible to stop that upload.  They never cared. Of course I would've made the scene even more funny with femshep laughing at them saying they didn't care while they watch pieces of ships fall to the surface. Hahaha

[wolfsite]

Based on all these replies I would have to say the answer would be no as everyone has a different definition of what evil is based on how they play or how invested they get with certain characters or species.

 

Every instance that one person says is evil is countered by another person saying it's not really evil it's just getting the job done or it was the better choice.

 

Bioware has played an interesting hand when dealing with evil because with each event we do get to see the possible outcomes of each choice that we can make (genophage, Geth/Quarian war, etc.)  Throughout the series we got views from both sides and had a chance to become friends with characters from both sides so it does become quite subjective depending on who you side with.

[Laughing_Man]

One important thing about the Geth didn't make sense to me.

 

If we accept that the Geth to some degree still have "positive feelings" about their "creators", (because of their decision to let the reminder of the Quarians flee the system after the Morning War) why did they insist on occupying Ranoch?

 

Ranoch is just one planet without much significance for synthetics, and the Geth mostly do not use it anyway according to Legion, so what's the point?

 

If they are indeed intent on concentrating on their own development, and are not interested in contact with others, they could have easily vanished from council space to make themselves a new base somewhere without the need to waste resources on conflicts with organics.

[Panda]

Then the Geth should have left Rannoch. Most Quarians want war because they want their homeworld back. Given their situation I fully understand this. And I won't change my mind just because the writer decide to demonize this position and turn the war supporting Quarians into reckless madmen. In general and provided they have a chance (which they have), war is the right thing here and I always supported it during Tali's trial. War with the whole fleet and with all civilians on board is of course part of the demonization.

 

Yes they wanted their homeworld back from Geths whose homeworld it also is. I do understand why they want it back. Game doesn't also give us option to inhabit Geths elsewhere. It does give us option to defend Geths who are being attacked and can't fight back at the moment or do nothing while Quarians destroy whole synthetic race. That option for me is hard, cause I don't see Geths as machines. It's clear that some here do and it should make the choice much easier to them.

[RatThing]

Yes they wanted their homeworld back from Geths whose homeworld it also is. I do understand why they want it back. Game doesn't also give us option to inhabit Geths elsewhere. It does give us option to defend Geths who are being attacked and can't fight back at the moment or do nothing while Quarians destroy whole synthetic race. That option for me is hard, cause I don't see Geths as machines. It's clear that some here do and it should make the choice much easier to them.

 

Yeah, the choice is easy for me here but I prefer the harder choices like the one about the genophage. Plus the writer constantly tries to tell you with raised finger "this is the wrong thing to do" to make the choice harder. Doesn't work of course, but annoys the **** out of me. Frankly I would rather skip this whole trainwreck "Rannoch arc", no matter what outcome it would have.

 

 

The geth and Quarians is a case of dumb and dumber. The Quarians going to war while the reapers invade the galaxy ...

 

The Quarians had a treaty with the counsil in which they agreed to not provoke a war with the Geth (wonder what they got in return). I assume the counsil would have stopped them if they didn't have their hands full with the Reapers. Seize the opportunity you have would be my take on this.