281 réponses à ce sujet

[KainD]

True.  Most of them have a reason.  Aside from threatening Emily Wong or something in ME1

 

Everybody has a reason for everything. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

People need to remember that's entirely possible to be evil without looking like a crazed lunatic.

[Jester]

I genuinely want to play as a psychopath. I want my character to be chill about any sort of violence and mischief, not be bothered by anyone's pain, kill people with a smile playfully, crack completely insensitive jokes, and I want companions that could relate to this character, companions that I could have fun with.

Sa... basically Sarcastic Hawke?

 

There really isn't an evil Renegade option you can take in Mass Effect that's evil in and of itself.

What? Leaving innocent people to burn (Zaeed's mission) is not evil? Gunning down colonists controlled by Thorian, when you have option of stunning them is not evil? Punching a reporter in the face for asking difficult questions is not evil? Betraying Samara to Morinth (who is a mass murderer and a sociopath) is not evil? 

[KainD]

Sa... basically Sarcastic Hawke?

 

Hawke cared too much about many things that would not concern a psychopath. 

[KainD]

People need to remember that's entirely possible to be evil without looking like a crazed lunatic.

 

Crazy is in the eyes of the beholder. 

[Seboist]

Sa... basically Sarcastic Hawke?

 

What? Leaving innocent people to burn (Zaeed's mission) is not evil? Gunning down colonists controlled by Thorian, when you have option of stunning them is not evil? Punching a reporter in the face for asking difficult questions is not evil? Betraying Samara to Morinth (who is a mass murderer and a sociopath) is not evil? 

 

1. Nothing evil with getting Zaeed's loyalty and killing the scumbag head of the blue suns.

 

2. Nothing evil with considering it to be too risky to use some grenades given by a woman whom only learned about the thorian a couple of seconds ago.

 

3. Reporter didn't deserve to be punched out in ME1, but in ME2 and 3 she went from being a pro-human reporter asking tough questions that would sympathize with renegade answers, to some clickbait troll and thus, deserved to be punched out in those games.

 

4. Recruiting Morinth is.... well, her whole implementation is just half-baked/poorly implemented and shouldn't have even been a option due to how Bioware handled it. Which is a shame, as her character had great potential.

[fhs33721]

1. Nothing evil with getting Zaeed's loyalty and killing the scumbag head of the blue suns.

 

2. Nothing evil with considering it to be too risky to use some grenades given by a woman whom only learned about the thorian a couple of seconds ago.

 

3. Reporter didn't deserve to be punched out in ME1, but in ME2 and 3 she went from being a pro-human reporter asking tough questions that would sympathize with renegade answers, to some clickbait troll and thus, deserved to be punched out in those games.

 

4. Recruiting Morinth is.... well, her whole implementation is just half-baked/poorly implemented and shouldn't have even been a option due to how Bioware handled it. Which is a shame, as her character had great potential.

1. Except the part where scumbag Zaeed set a few dozen factory workers on fire and you let them burn alive in oder to earn the loyality of said scumbag Zaeed.

2. Yeah sure just kill the mind controlled people whose only fault it was, that scentist scumbags used them for sh*tty experiments. Can't be bothered to at least try the knock-out grenades before going over to killining every single person.

3. Actually not evil to punch the reporter. It's just an expression of being a bully that resorts to violence whenever it feels criticized.

4. Totally stupid-evil levels of dumbassery. I'll go and murder the Justicar who has sworn complete loyalty to me in oder to recruit the serial killer that tried to kill me just a minute ago. Great idea. I can see no conceivable way this carefully laid plan could possibly backfire.

 

But people here seem to have some sort of repulsion against the adjective "evil". So in oder to end the constant arguing about wether something is "evil", as proposed earlier, let's call it something else. Like "Being a sh*tty human being by current western standards that deserves to get kicked in their face and reproductive organs  repeatedly."

[Kimarous]

Personally, I don't think "evil" playthroughs are any fun unless there's a reason behind it. "Random scumbag" stuff isn't particularly interesting to me unless the results are so over-the-top that it becomes hilarious. KOTOR is a great example of both. The force allows for delicious shenanigans like *mindtrick* "You will give me all your money and them jump into the bottomless abyss", all the while building up to the pragmatic benefits of dark side powers like lighting. Jade Empire is another good example, as Closed Fist gets you great techniques and ultimately the power of a god. But the stuff in Mass Effect? Shepard being a jerk is either "jerk for jerk's sake" jerkishness (the kind that just make me feel disgusted with myself) or actively works AGAINST what you're trying to accomplish. If it's "no benefit" or "ANTI-benefit", why even bother?

 

I remember seeing one random event in a Galactic Civilizations game where the premise was that a primitive race on the planet worships an annual comet. Thing is, you notice that the comet has alien tech attached to it. What do you do?

• Good: Leave the comet alone out of respect for the primitives.
• Neutral: Wait until the comet has passed, send out a crew to retrieve the tech, and then put a replacement comet into the same orbit.
• Evil: Take the alien tech, blow up the comet, and then taunt the primitives about how you killed their god!

The evil option there strikes me as so over the top that I can't help but laugh. My mind takes it even further, throwing chunks of the comet into a processor (in full view of the primitives) that turns the remains into a spoon, then slobbering all over the spoon with my tongue before dropping it at their feet; anyone who tries to touch it gets shot. Evil laughs all around, because it's THAT ridiculous.

 

So yeah... I'd only go for evil if it's either pragmatic stuff (like taking/threatening/killing hostages to "hasten" negotiations) or ludicrous evil (like the GalCiv scenario I mentioned). Not "kicking Joker in the shins just because" kind of crap.

[stysiaq]

Sa... basically Sarcastic Hawke?

 

What? Leaving innocent people to burn (Zaeed's mission) is not evil? Gunning down colonists controlled by Thorian, when you have option of stunning them is not evil? Punching a reporter in the face for asking difficult questions is not evil? Betraying Samara to Morinth (who is a mass murderer and a sociopath) is not evil? 

 

Zaeed mission and Thorian both can be rationalized, punching scumbag Fox News metaphor is a dick move, sure, but with hardly any bad consequences, and choosing Samara over Morinth can be read as a silent protest against ludicrous outfits for space genderbending blue babes, so it's gray area at most.

[stysiaq]

Personally, I don't think "evil" playthroughs are any fun unless there's a reason behind it. "Random scumbag" stuff isn't particularly interesting to me unless the results are so over-the-top that it becomes hilarious. KOTOR is a great example of both. The force allows for delicious shenanigans like *mindtrick* "You will give me all your money and them jump into the bottomless abyss", all the while building up to the pragmatic benefits of dark side powers like lighting. Jade Empire is another good example, as Closed Fist gets you great techniques and ultimately the power of a god. But the stuff in Mass Effect? Shepard being a jerk is either "jerk for jerk's sake" jerkishness (the kind that just make me feel disgusted with myself) or actively works AGAINST what you're trying to accomplish. If it's "no benefit" or "ANTI-benefit", why even bother?

 

I remember seeing one random event in a Galactic Civilizations game where the premise was that a primitive race on the planet worships an annual comet. Thing is, you notice that the comet has alien tech attached to it. What do you do?

• Good: Leave the comet alone out of respect for the primitives.
• Neutral: Wait until the comet has passed, send out a crew to retrieve the tech, and then put a replacement comet into the same orbit.
• Evil: Take the alien tech, blow up the comet, and then taunt the primitives about how you killed their god!

The evil option there strikes me as so over the top that I can't help but laugh. My mind takes it even further, throwing chunks of the comet into a processor (in full view of the primitives) that turns the remains into a spoon, then slobbering all over the spoon with my tongue before dropping it at their feet; anyone who tries to touch it gets shot. Evil laughs all around, because it's THAT ridiculous.

 

So yeah... I'd only go for evil if it's either pragmatic stuff (like taking/threatening/killing hostages to "hasten" negotiations) or ludicrous evil (like the GalCiv scenario I mentioned). Not "kicking Joker in the shins just because" kind of crap.

 

 

That's the evil I can get behind - the one that you choose because of pragmatic motivation to become more powerful (or even power corrupt). A great example would of course be KOTOR games where different powers are given to Dark/Light Side of the Force users, but as SW is intrinsically about the struggle between quite manicheistic good and evil it wouldn't transfer to mass effect (I mean good/evil powers).

 

Another example would be evil/good loot. Older fantasy games had it easier because you chose alignment and then just spot a sword with "usable by" section where you could specify if it's a Sword of Infant Genocide or Mace of Endless Love. Today this approach is anachronistic, especially picking your alignment right off the bat. It's also idiotic for a sci-fi game to have a gun you can't pick up because you're not "good" enough. Also, in a game with self-made alignment it can also be frustrating at times if you realise there's a late-game item restricted to an alignment that you don't have (looking at you, Planescape: Torment). The only answer to that would be to have items that are quest rewards that are given after a good / bad quest resolution. For me ME series was lacking in that department, in all games you had access to every single gun and armor (well, to be honest ME2 and 3 kind of butchered armors as well) or it was class-restricted at most. 

 

The Fallout Karma system and KOTOR light/dark side seem to be what inspired Renegade/Paragon system, yet unlike KOTOR there wasn't a single time in ME where good/evil choices was also a choice between item A or item B (in KOTORs you have light/dark crystals). Also, unlike Fallout series Mass Effect evil was never funny (Fallout evil can be as hilarious as the Galactic Civilizations example you brought up). What I'm trying to say is that in games I need to be rewarded extra by acting against my moral code, either with substantial items/abilities or humour.

[fhs33721]

Zaeed mission and Thorian both can be rationalized, punching scumbag Fox News metaphor is a dick move, sure, but with hardly any bad consequences, and choosing Samara over Morinth can be read as a silent protest against ludicrous outfits for space genderbending blue babes, so it's gray area at most.

But Morinth will wear the exact same outfit.    Also you might want to look up what genderbending actually means.

[stysiaq]

But Morinth will wear the exact same outfit.    Also you might want to look up what genderbending actually means.

 

 

oh, right, forgot about that. And I did check, and I got it wrong, will do better next time.

[Daemul]

Leaving the workers to die to kill Vido was no different from leaving the Terra Nova colonists to kill Balak, there was nothing evil about it. Vido could not be be allowed to live, the dude was a complete psycho only rivalled by Jona Sederis in the crazy department, another person who I make sure ends up dead due to her insanity, both of them make Balak look really tame.

[BatarianBob]

There really isn't an evil Renegade option you can take in Mass Effect that's evil in and of itself.

There are a few exceptions (gunning down the Feros colonists, picking Morinth over Samara), but for the most part that's true. Renegade Shepard is pretty much the same as Paragon Shepard, except she has a snarky attitude and occasionally brings bad people to a harsh but fair justice rather than letting them go and hoping that they'll behave.

[MrStoob]

The final scenes of ME1 never came to fruition (if you let the council die), as an example of when we should have become 'evil' but didn't by the time we hit ME2.  Making a pact with Udina to control the galaxy with an iron fist and human-centric agenda turned into nuthin'

[The NightMan Cometh]

I want my Shepard in ME4 to be able to fornicate with animals.

[Xen]

The final scenes of ME1 never came to fruition (if you let the council die), as an example of when we should have become 'evil' but didn't by the time we hit ME2.  Making a pact with Udina to control the galaxy with an iron fist and human-centric agenda turned into nuthin'

First off, that isn't evil. You are replacing a tripartite dictatorship with a singular one. The status quo is essentially the same, except now the humans rule over everyone else instead of the asari, turians and salarians.
 

Second, you don't have to make that pact. My usual M.O. is to kill them off, then blow Udina's Galactic Empire plan off and put Anderson and a new Council in charge. It's ruthless to allow the Citadel fleet and a net 7,000 extra people to die, but ultimately those Councilors are arguably inept, racist, self absorbed terrible leaders who risk the lives of billions by being left to rule their detached oligarchy. 


Their replacements are hardly better other than Anderson (who is an ineffectual politician anyway) because nearly all politicians in the ME universe are idiots, but that's not something you know at the time.

[stysiaq]

I want my Shepard in ME4 to be able to fornicate with animals.

 

• Liara
• Tali
• Thane
• Garrus

Not enough for you?

[Daemul]

I want my Shepard in ME4 to be able to fornicate with animals.

 

If you fornicate with humans you already are. 

[Quarian Master Race]

 

• Liara
• Tali
• Thane
• Garrus

Not enough for you?

 

Humans are animals too. The point is that saipence is a silly place to draw the line, especially in a universe where you can encourage your pilot to bang a soulless robot.

Why no varrenmance for anyone that isn't Kelly Chambers? Why no cross kingdom human-plantae Thorian romance? If it has a cellular structure, we should be able to bang it, or else it is oppression.

[KaiserShep]

• Liara
• Tali
• Thane
• Garrus

Not enough for you?

The great irony is that when they first traversed the stars, humans were still futzing about on earth waving pointy things at each other.

[Jester]

 Why no cross kingdom human-plantae Thorian romance? If it has a cellular structure, we should be able to bang it, or else it is oppression.

Why cellular criteria? I think it's discriminating.

I want to bang Geth. 

 

And Reapers. They should have made a submissive human-Reaper romances. 

[NuclearTech76]

Seeing this board flooded with questions about the shape and inclusivity of character creator/romance options made me realise how few are the questions regarding traditional RPG elements.

For example, how about giving me an opportunity to act evil, with evil consequences? One of my biggest problems with ME3 (I still didn't finish DA:I but I don't expect it to be an option there) was that I wasn't able to betray humanity or even be less of a wimp regarding that goddamn hoodie dream brat.

As I understand it we will come to a new galaxy as explorers first and foremost. Why not conquerors then? Why shouldn't we be able to do evil things to indigenous races, why not help exploiting the newly found planets a'la the Avatar antagonist? Of course, provided there will be some natives to be exploited there.

I'm quite tired of playing as a goody-two-shoes, even if I'm allowed to yell at some people while being a goody-two-shoes (see ME3).

Yes!!!!!! Finally we will be doing the anal probing!!!!!

[Quarian Master Race]

Why cellular criteria? I think it's discriminating.

I want to bang Geth. 

 

And Reapers. They should have made a submissive human-Reaper romances. 

Sorry, but then is not technically a romance, rather than pleasuring yourself with a sapient sex toy.

Nonetheless, you will likely have the opportunity to do so, considering that cripple Seth Green already went where no organic had gone before in this series.

 

[Farangbaa]

If they go for an 'evil route', they better not equate it to hyper mega insane psychopath. Because that's just that: a mental disorder (or disorders in this case ) it has nothing to do with good/evil.

Thaos ix Arkannos, from Pillars of Eternity... THAT is 'evil. Or Saren from ME1, or the Illusive Man from MEII. Charismatic, coherent and convincing.

But I suppose it's really hard to translate that level of sophistication to the Player Character, without removing the player's ability to influence the character's persona.