281 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

You best care about that phytoplankton. Without those suckers, we're all boned. 

 

No need to worry about them, unlike the Krogan, Geth and Rachni, they're beneficial to humanity.

[The Heretic of Time]

Regarding the whole humans versus aliens discussion:

As a human, it is your duty to put humanities interest first. Doing anything less is treason. If humanity won't put their own interests first, nobody will. 

 

Ashley made a good analogy in ME1 when she compared humanity and the alien species to a dog and its owner. Though the analogy does have some flaws, because a dog is the owner's trusted companion, but aliens are not our companions and cannot be trusted.

When it comes to dealing with alien life, no matter how humane they look, they're not humans. Aliens that are indeed completely alien would be pretty scary and reason enough to be cautious. We could not trust such an alien species. But if we meet aliens that are exactly like us we will have even more reason to be scared.

 

We like to think that intelligent species are moral and empathetic, often pointing at humanity itself as an example. We therefor assume that if aliens are similar to us, they will be nice to us and not kill us.

But the truth is that humans, as empathetic as we are, kill other species all the time, even those with which we share the common bond of high intelligence. Right now, hundreds of dolphins are being killed by tuna fishermen and drift netters. The killing goes on and on and dolphins are not even a threat to us.

We aren't above killing our own species either. Thousands of humans get killed by other humans on a daily basis for different kinds of reasons, not all of them good reasons.

 
So once we establish that aliens will not necessarily be nice to us simply by virtue of being intelligent, then you open up this whole nightmare of relativistic civilizations exterminating one another.
 
Basically, it's kill or be killed. We're gonna have to ensure our survival and be ready and willing to kill (or even exterminate) other alien species because otherwise they will exterminate us. That seems harsh and unforgiving, after all the aliens might be much nicer than us and have no intention to kill us at all, but we can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
 
Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
 
The other aliens won't  destroy us to get our resources or our knowledge, they won't destroy us because they're mean and want power over us. They'll come to destroy us to insure their survival. Even if we're no apparent threat, they'll destroy us, because they too will realize that humanity is potentially dangerous and they too cannot wait to be proven wrong.

[KaiserShep]

I like the races in Mass Effect, but if the story had us pitting the fate of our own species against all of theirs, needless to say we'd have a lot of empty worlds to colonize after that. Kinda glad the story hasn't taken us there though. I wouldn't hesitate to do it, but I wouldn't particularly like it. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@Seboist:  Only, I wasn't talking about you.

If I decide that my "kin" didn't come first - I'm "good" to wipe them out to protect whatever I wish using your logic. 

[The Heretic of Time]

@Seboist:  Only, I wasn't talking about you.

If I decide that my "kin" didn't come first - I'm "good" to wipe them out to protect whatever I wish using your logic. 

 

But who the **** would do that? Why would you betray your own species/kin?

[Isaidlunch]

If we're not allowed to be evil then I hope at least we get dialogue options to tell squadmates to shut up mid conversation like in Kotor.

[KaiserShep]

@Seboist:  Only, I wasn't talking about you.

If I decide that my "kin" didn't come first - I'm "good" to wipe them out to protect whatever I wish using your logic. 

 

The thing that stands out the most to me is how kin is in quotation marks. Biologically, it's technically the truth, regardless of the level of emotional attachment. 

[AlanC9]

Ashley made a good analogy in ME1 when she compared humanity and the alien species to a dog and its owner. Though the analogy does have some flaws, because a dog is the owner's trusted companion, but aliens are not our companions and cannot be trusted.

Weren't humans the dog in that analogy? The objection still works, since we're certainly not to be trusted.

[The Heretic of Time]

Weren't humans the dog in that analogy? The objection still works, since we're certainly not to be trusted.

 

Yes, humans were the dog in that analogy. And it goes both ways. We cannot trust the aliens and they cannot trust us.

[Dabrikishaw]

I can't tell if people are joking anymore.

[KainD]

But who the **** would do that? Why would you betray your own species/kin?

 

When it comes to survival everyone is out for themselves. A random human is no more kin than an alien, or a dolphin. 

[Hazegurl]

I wouldn't want to run around killing every living thing simply to benefit myself at the moment.  Right now humans could be on the verge of extinction because we're killing everything that benefits our environment.  Humans can be pretty stupid in that regard.  However, I would have no reason to believe that any alien race would value me as a living intelligent being over themselves and their own species.  If I had to choose between humanity and the Krogan, Humanity comes first.  Same with all alien races that don't benefit us.  Wiping out humanity for personal reasons or any other reason would be counter productive and just plain stupid.

[AsheraII]

One of my biggest problems with ME3 (I still didn't finish DA:I but I don't expect it to be an option there) was that I wasn't able NOT to betray humanity or even be less of a wimp regarding that goddamn hoodie dream brat.

Fixed that for you..

[fhs33721]

Basically, it's kill or be killed. We're gonna have to ensure our survival and be ready and willing to kill (or even exterminate) other alien species because otherwise they will exterminate us. That seems harsh and unforgiving, after all the aliens might be much nicer than us and have no intention to kill us at all, but we can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.

 

So basically you want to pull a Leroy Jenkings and rush into attacking other alien species right off the bat? You do realize that this way to go about things could very well lead to humanities extinction 10 times more likely than waiting yes? At least in the MEU since pretty much everyone has a better military than humans (except batarians, and maybe Quarians).

Not to mention that the other council races works pretty well together and when you try to exterminate one you will most likely be curbstomped by their combined forces so hard that if you are lucky they'll only bomb you back to the stone ages (Ask the Rachni and the Krogans for reference if you don't believe me.).

[Boost32]

The united species of Milk Way shall strike the primitives of Andromeda and they shall bend before our will.

So basically you want to pull a Leroy Jenkings and rush into attacking other alien species right off the bat? You do realize that this way to go about things could very well lead to humanities extinction 10 times more likely than waiting yes? At least in the MEU since pretty much everyone has a better military than humans (except batarians, and maybe Quarians).
Not to mention that the other council races works pretty well together and when you try to exterminate one you will most likely be curbstomped by their combined forces so hard that if you are lucky they'll only bomb you back to the stone ages (Ask the Rachni and the Krogans for reference if you don't believe me.).

Humans have one of the most powerful fleet in ME, its the second specie with more dreadnoughts, only the Turians have a stronger fleet.

[Seboist]

The united species of Milk Way shall strike the primitives of Andromeda and they shall bend before our will.

Humans have one of the most powerful fleet in ME, its the second specie with more dreadnoughts, only the Turians have a stronger fleet.

 

That used to be true, until my Shep turned the Reapers into a human fleet. 

[Ahriman]

That used to be true, until my Shep turned everyone into Reaper ground forces

You had typo in your post.

[Medhia_Nox]

@The Heretic of Time: It painfully kills me to agree with KainD on any topic. 

 

What is humanity?  It is a complex organism that acts in every way like an invasive species within its biosphere.  It is a threat to every other living organism that inhabits the same space.  

 

They use the remains of living organisms to power their engines - strip the planet of resources to build monuments to their greatness - and have zero regard for anything but themselves.  If it were a fantasy tale - they'd be the orcs of Mordor.  

 

The Reapers should have been the good guys in this story, but Bioware zigged when they should have zagged.

 

IF I were the type to regard the viability of over 9 million animal species - and 400,000 plant species - over one monkey that talks and destroys its own living space.  Sure, I'd wipe us out.  

[Torgette]

Regarding the whole humans versus aliens discussion:

 

...

 

Well humanity just went through the cold war and mutually assured destruction, at the end of the day if cooperating with others ensures our survival then it's in our best interest to cooperate. Naturally you never expose your weakness, but you never want to brush off those who can easily harm you either. Survival is a balancing act we've been playing for our entire existence.

[Boost32]

@The Heretic of Time: It painfully kills me to agree with KainD on any topic.

What is humanity? It is a complex organism that acts in every way like an invasive species within its biosphere. It is a threat to every other living organism that inhabits the same space.

They use the remains of living organisms to power their engines - strip the planet of resources to build monuments to their greatness - and have zero regard for anything but themselves. If it were a fantasy tale - they'd be the orcs of Mordor.

The Reapers should have been the good guys in this story, but Bioware zigged when they should have zagged.

IF I were the type to regard the viability of over 9 million animal species - and 400,000 plant species - over one monkey that talks and destroys its own living space. Sure, I'd wipe us out.

Then you are a traitor to your specie, we dominated the world because nature gave us only one gift, we evolved to not become extinct and became the apex specie of our planet.
Now its time to become the apex of our galaxy, after that the apex of the universe.

[agonis]

@Boost: "Nature gave us only one gift"?

 

And that gift is?

 

Stupidity?

 

I´m pretty sure it´s stupidity. At least that´s the most common gift I encounter daily.

 

*sarcasm end*

[Seboist]

Then you are a traitor to your specie, we dominated the world because nature gave us only one gift, we evolved to not become extinct and became the apex specie of our planet.
Now its time to became the apex of our galaxy, after that the apex of the universe.

 

Humans are the apex race of the Earth, correct. We've evolved past the constraints nature gave the lesser species with our intellect and ingenuity and left the other hominids like the Neanderthal in the genetic scrap heap.

 

The Mass Effect universe goes further than that by showing us that humans have prime racial stock that's genetically diverse and was the only one deemed worthy of preservation and ascension by the reapers. I'd go further than that and suggest that the other races were holding us back from our potential too, which is part of the reason why I left the council to rot at the end of ME1.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Seeing this board flooded with questions about the shape and inclusivity of character creator/romance options made me realise how few are the questions regarding traditional RPG elements.

 

For example, how about giving me an opportunity to act evil, with evil consequences? One of my biggest problems with ME3 (I still didn't finish DA:I but I don't expect it to be an option there) was that I wasn't able to betray humanity or even be less of a wimp regarding that goddamn hoodie dream brat.

 

As I understand it we will come to a new galaxy as explorers first and foremost. Why not conquerors then? Why shouldn't we be able to do evil things to indigenous races, why not help exploiting the newly found planets a'la the Avatar antagonist? Of course, provided there will be some natives to be exploited there.

 

I'm quite tired of playing as a goody-two-shoes, even if I'm allowed to yell at some people while being a goody-two-shoes (see ME3).

 

Go play Hatred then. I mean 100% Renegade Shepard is one of the most vile characters in video games a tyrannical racist who commits acts of cold blooded murder, treason, sedition, and  multiple genosides.  . 

[Boost32]

@Boost: "Nature gave us only one gift"?

And that gift is?

Stupidity?

I´m pretty sure it´s stupidity. At least that´s the most common gift I encounter daily.

*sarcasm end*

Humans can only rely in their intellect, their ability to analize and learn from a situation, thats our gift.

We cant outrun a predator, we don't have the strenght to fight them, we cant climb trees fast enough, we cant fly, we cant hold our breath for a long time, we need water and food almost every day, if it wasnt for our intellect we would be extinct.

In nature, might makes right, so its our right to dominate this planet. Humans enslaved others lesser being to make food from them (be them animal, fungi or a plant), to amuse US (and call themselves pet), etc.
If another specie want to become the dominante one, they are welcome to try.

[The Elder King]

Regarding the whole humans versus aliens discussion:
As a human, it is your duty to put humanities interest first. Doing anything less is treason. If humanity won't put their own interests first, nobody will. 
 
Ashley made a good analogy in ME1 when she compared humanity and the alien species to a dog and its owner. Though the analogy does have some flaws, because a dog is the owner's trusted companion, but aliens are not our companions and cannot be trusted.
When it comes to dealing with alien life, no matter how humane they look, they're not humans. Aliens that are indeed completely alien would be pretty scary and reason enough to be cautious. We could not trust such an alien species. But if we meet aliens that are exactly like us we will have even more reason to be scared.
 
We like to think that intelligent species are moral and empathetic, often pointing at humanity itself as an example. We therefor assume that if aliens are similar to us, they will be nice to us and not kill us.
But the truth is that humans, as empathetic as we are, kill other species all the time, even those with which we share the common bond of high intelligence. Right now, hundreds of dolphins are being killed by tuna fishermen and drift netters. The killing goes on and on and dolphins are not even a threat to us.
We aren't above killing our own species either. Thousands of humans get killed by other humans on a daily basis for different kinds of reasons, not all of them good reasons.
 
So once we establish that aliens will not necessarily be nice to us simply by virtue of being intelligent, then you open up this whole nightmare of relativistic civilizations exterminating one another.
 
Basically, it's kill or be killed. We're gonna have to ensure our survival and be ready and willing to kill (or even exterminate) other alien species because otherwise they will exterminate us. That seems harsh and unforgiving, after all the aliens might be much nicer than us and have no intention to kill us at all, but we can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
 
Got that? We can't afford to wait to be proven wrong.
 
The other aliens won't  destroy us to get our resources or our knowledge, they won't destroy us because they're mean and want power over us. They'll come to destroy us to insure their survival. Even if we're no apparent threat, they'll destroy us, because they too will realize that humanity is potentially dangerous and they too cannot wait to be proven wrong.

It didn't seem the Council races went to Earth kill every human. Or, for the record, Destroying every new species. The first (or one do the first) encounter of two different species in the current cycle lead to the formation of the Council, Not war.
That doesn't mean humanity shouldn't be prepared, but I think the situation isn't as extreme as you said, At least in the ME universe/MW.
We'll see in Andromeda, but I seriously doubt There'll be problems between MW races.

That used to be true, until my Shep turned the Reapers into a human fleet.

It didn't seem a human fleet to me.