And walking physically in the Fade, a feat only ever performed by the magisters who entered the Golden City.
That already puts the Inquisitor on a different level.
Using a power, that didn't belong to them. The power belonged to ,Solas, so it wasn't the Inquisitors 'feat' at all. The inquisitor is the weakest of the 3 protagonists (head-cannon excluded), and Hawke didn't need someone else's power (or three advisors to babysit them) to get **** done.
Finders keepers. We can debate legitimatecy all day, but the Inquisitor wields it and nothing will change that.
But unique powers aside, there is no way to determine which of the three heroes would win in a fight. It's just pure gameplay, and the story itself never describes their battle prowess as individuals.
Regarding the advisors, the Inquisitor runs a far larger organisation than what the previous heroes had to handle. What leader doesn't count on a military general? Counselors?
The need to delegate is a testimony to the Inquisition's power and the one on its seat.
And when it comes down to it, the Inquisitor was the one personally securing success in every crucial moment.
I never argued that s/he don't wield that i argued that simple neither it is god-like power (i explained difference between god-like power and just superpower) and that i doesn't make inquisitor stronger or more powerful than the warden or hawke.
With that i agree completely ,but i belive i have said that already in this thread so not much left to say.
Hawke is very good in killing, essentially a killing machine that is true. But is also a lazy idiot which disqualifies him from the title of badass.
"Want to cause a war with the Qunari Petrice? Eh I cbf stopping you"
"Want to take that list of Qunari Spies so nobody can find out who they are tallis? Eh I cbf stopping you"
"Want to take my sister to the circle despite my clear dislike of this and my family trying to avoid exactly that for the past 18 years? Eh I cbf stopping you"
"Meredith taking all power in Kirkwall and blocking the new election of A Viscount so she can put a puppet on the throne? Eh I may say something about that in 3 years, but cbf doing anything other than saying a few words"
"Guy just walked past me with the tome of Koslun, The very reason the Qunari are here and the sole thing we came to this warehouse for? Eh I cbf going after him, I have Tevinters and Qunari to kill while they're killing each other"
No badass here
Ignoring all the factors that prevented Hawke from taking action against these people, you mean?
Petrice was a respected member of the Chantry, while Hawke was a penniless refugee with absolutely no proof she'd tried to incite a race war with the Qunari save their word against her, something Petrice even lampshades. In Act 2, while both have increased in position, Hawke still has absolutely zero concrete evidence against her save that which is circumstancial, something that you're unfortunately forced to admit when the Viscount asks if you have any proof of her involvement?
While we're railroaded to not try to take the list from Tallis, she does mention that the list doesn't just contain the names of current Qunari spies, but those who've since renounced the Qun and become Tal-Vashoth, many of whom might have established friends, family or loved ones as part of their cover who would be in the line of fire if the list was exposed. Do you really think the justice system (if it can even be called that) in Thedas would recognise some people might not be aware of their friend/family/boss' affiliation with the Qunari? Bull's name being on that list and being outed would probably mean that the Chargers would all be either imprisoned or executed as accomplices in his espionage, regardless of how complicit they were. Even a completely loathsome Hawke who'd sell Fenris into slavery, murder Merrill's clan or betray Isabela to the Qunari, probably isn't enough a complete tool to let thousands of innocent people die because they happen to know someone in the Qun.
Hawke doesn't stop the Templars taking Bethany because there is nothing they can do... Bethany had already been outed and save for attempting to flee the city, something none of them want to do, all of them are now at risk because they've been knowingly harbouring an apostate for years, a serious crime in of itself (especially as far as Meredith is concerned). That Bethany chose to go willingly (and might have been the one to out herself), as well as Hawke not attempting to prevent the Templars taking her is part of the reason that Cullen probably was able to wrangle some leniancy for them. Furthermore, as much as Hawke doesn't want Bethany to go to the Circle, it was her choice to go.
Aside from being a minor member of the nobility, Hawke has no real power in the city whatsoever (something Aveline mentions in Act 2, that Hawke has no job) and even becoming the Champion makes them more of a mascot for Kirkwall, than holding any kind of office. Meredith was already running the city unofficially when Hawke arrived in Kirkwall and we see that she further consolidated power after the death of the Viscount. In Act 3, Bran and Aveline are the only two legitimate government officials left and it's made clear that Meredith was attempting to undermine Aveline to try to seize control of the guard, so the city would be under full Templar control. Hawke cannot act against her either, due to Meredith making veiled threats against either them (if a Mage), Bethany (if in the Circle) or Hawke's mage friends, so it's clear she's holding all the cards.
As for the entire situation with the Tome of Koslun, when all hell breaks loose and you're stuck in a melee a trois with Tevinter and Qunari forces, is it any surprise that maybe you might have more pressing matters to deal with (such as not dying) while the guy holding the book slips passed everyone, especially when Isabela bolts after them in all the confusion, further complicating matters?
Regardless of how badass someone is, some things are simply too complicated for them to take action against, as it'd either end in death, incarceration or suffering reprisals either against themselves, their family or their loved ones? One cannot live by murder-knife alone.
I never meant stronger in battle, just more impressive when you look at the whole package.
Depending on what you mean ,if you mean that inquisitor ability is impressive then yes i agree .but then why you responded on my comment as it wasn't about about inquisitor being stronger or not. 
By not taking the list Hawke is guilty of a greater sin then a paltry few thousands of deaths.
He signed the death warrants of all the tens of thousands that will die the next time the Qunari invade, The Qunari wars were the bloodiest series of conflicts since the blights.
How many hundreds of thousands are you condemning to death because you have some petty delusion of coexistence?
Honesty the only reason I can even stomach that decision is because Bioware railroaded me.
You mean the tens of thousands that will die anyway whenever the Qunari decided to invade... eventually... when they get around to it... at some time in the future... they've not yet decided upon... but which will happen someday... maybe in the next game... or perhaps the one after...?
Not saying that they won't eventually invade Thedas once more, since both the Arishok and Sten made that clear in both games, but aside from fighting the Tevinters, the Qunari have been sitting around twiddling their thumbs up their butts for a couple centuries now?
The Qunari invasion is not going to be stymied by the fact that the spies on that list were not exposed, it will always be a bloody affair and a brutal conflict, regardless of whether the Qunari happen to know "crucial" information such as Ser Whatshisface being the one who knocked off the misses of Lord Fancybloomers and secretly fathered "his" three kids?
Are you seriously dismissing the use of military intelligence? That's rhetorical, you clearly are.
Denying intelligence to the enemy or feeding them false information's impact is easy enough to measure.
Its impact in history isn't deniable.
So boyo delude yourself of the impact of stripping the Qunari of their eyes in the south, of denying them information that is something they want desperately enough to send agents south to safeguard it.
Plus these are active military personnel and insurgents, they really need to die anyway.
It was one of the worst moment in my gaming life, letting the little knife ears ****** walking away with the Heart of Many was beyond ridiculous.
My Hawke had allied with Petrice and killed every pathetic Qunari in the Viscount's palace, he even told he would kill Tallis if he saw her again. And when he saw her again what he does? "You dont expect me to elt you go" he says, "I dont expect anything more from you" she responde, throw him a jewel (my HAwke was already rich he dont need a jewel) and leave with the scroll while my Hawke did nothing! I was furious, lucklly the Keep let me decide that Hawke never met that B.
The Inquisitor is over-seeing operations all over Thedas of course he has advisor and help. BTW, The Warden biggest "feat" was slaying an archdemon, and Hawke was "killing" Cory. Both of which the Inquisior does in one sitting. And The Inky, steamrolls Hawke and the Warden, cuz Green AOE of death.
Are you seriously dismissing the use of military intelligence? That's rhetorical, you clearly are.
Denying intelligence to the enemy or feeding them false information's impact is easy enough to measure.
Its impact in history isn't deniable.
So boyo delude yourself of the impact of stripping the Qunari of their eyes in the south, of denying them information that is something they want desperately enough to send agents south to safeguard it.
Plus these are active military personnel and insurgents, they really need to die anyway.
I wasn't saying that information isn't important in waging a military campaign, but the loss of the spy network means nothing when they've had centuries to accrue knowledge that they'd need to wage an effective campaign already, combined with what they gained from the last time they invaded.
In fact, the list going public would only make the Qunari want to accelerate their timetable for an invasion, since they'd lost their advantage if they waited too long and the various nations had time to tighten security, defences and prepare. Surely that would only mean the bloodbath would arrive sooner, rather than later, by a nation now desperate to seize control as fast as possible while their information is still accurate. By allowing the Qunari to have the list and continue acting on their own timetable, Hawke could have bought some time before the Qunari were ready to launch their invasion.
Also, exactly what is wrong with the Qunari having spies in various nations, it's not like no-one practices foreign or internal espionage? Orlesians made the entire affair into a freaking game and have their bards openly running around with their spy badges for all to see.
So far, we've seen little evidence that the Qunari spies are practicing any kind of open insurgency (their war-table missions if you secure the alliance actually are mostly about aiding in counter-terrorism against the Venatori) or even having their spies operating in any kind of military capacity, a lot seems to involve supplying information on the grapevine.
The Inquisitor is over-seeing operations all over Thedas of course he has advisor and help. BTW, The Warden biggest "feat" was slaying an archdemon, and Hawke was "killing" Cory. Both of which the Inquisior does in one sitting. And The Inky, steamrolls Hawke and the Warden, cuz Green AOE of death.
Eee no inquisitor never kills an archdemon he kills
By not taking the list Hawke is guilty of a greater sin then a paltry few thousands of deaths.
He signed the death warrants of all the tens of thousands that will die the next time the Qunari invade, The Qunari wars were the bloodiest series of conflicts since the blights.
How many hundreds of thousands are you condemning to death because you have some petty delusion of coexistence?
Honesty the only reason I can even stomach that decision is because Bioware railroaded me.
Basically Qunari ain't ****
Which is it? In every other thread on the subject of the Qunari you dismiss them as being not a match for Thedas.
Which is it? In every other thread on the subject of the Qunari you dismiss them as being not a match for Thedas.
Getting back on topic, while I personally find the Warden to be the most badass of all the protagonists, Hawke's nothing to sneeze at either. Defeating the Arishok in single combat is certainly a deed of reknown, and the character deserved a better game than they got.
Getting back on topic, while I personally find the Warden to be the most badass of all the protagonists, Hawke's nothing to sneeze at either. Defeating the Arishok in single combat is certainly a deed of reknown, and the character deserved a better game than they got.
Not to mention, better than the ignoble death in Inquisition they can suffer... really, if they were going to have the option for Hawke to die in Inquisition, it should have been in some kind of ill-fated attempt by the Inquisition to take down Corypheus, rather than against a demon that only appeared half an hour ago and unlike Corypheus, will be irrelevant after this quest is done.
I think all of them are badass in their own ways, but you can't really compare them in terms of badassery since they do vastly different jobs and have their own particular niche that they are best suited for?
I think the best comparison we can hope for is to imagine if they were in the place of the Inquisition advisors. The Inquisitor seems like they'd take the Josephine role, since we're the face of the group and often called upon to play diplomat, the Warden would take Cullen's role as the general building up an army (which was Origins in a nutshell), while Hawke would take the Leliana role, the one who takes care of the difficult jobs that cannot be "officially" sanctioned (which was often Hawke's job in DA2).
I find Hawke to be the least badass of the 3 protags because Hawke was just there compared to the Warden-Commander and the Inquisitor.
Ignoring all the factors that prevented Hawke from taking action against these people, you mean?
Petrice was a respected member of the Chantry, while Hawke was a penniless refugee with absolutely no proof she'd tried to incite a race war with the Qunari save their word against her, something Petrice even lampshades. In Act 2, while both have increased in position, Hawke still has absolutely zero concrete evidence against her save that which is circumstancial, something that you're unfortunately forced to admit when the Viscount asks if you have any proof of her involvement?
While we're railroaded to not try to take the list from Tallis, she does mention that the list doesn't just contain the names of current Qunari spies, but those who've since renounced the Qun and become Tal-Vashoth, many of whom might have established friends, family or loved ones as part of their cover who would be in the line of fire if the list was exposed. Do you really think the justice system (if it can even be called that) in Thedas would recognise some people might not be aware of their friend/family/boss' affiliation with the Qunari? Bull's name being on that list and being outed would probably mean that the Chargers would all be either imprisoned or executed as accomplices in his espionage, regardless of how complicit they were. Even a completely loathsome Hawke who'd sell Fenris into slavery, murder Merrill's clan or betray Isabela to the Qunari, probably isn't enough a complete tool to let thousands of innocent people die because they happen to know someone in the Qun.
Hawke doesn't stop the Templars taking Bethany because there is nothing they can do... Bethany had already been outed and save for attempting to flee the city, something none of them want to do, all of them are now at risk because they've been knowingly harbouring an apostate for years, a serious crime in of itself (especially as far as Meredith is concerned). That Bethany chose to go willingly (and might have been the one to out herself), as well as Hawke not attempting to prevent the Templars taking her is part of the reason that Cullen probably was able to wrangle some leniancy for them. Furthermore, as much as Hawke doesn't want Bethany to go to the Circle, it was her choice to go.
Aside from being a minor member of the nobility, Hawke has no real power in the city whatsoever (something Aveline mentions in Act 2, that Hawke has no job) and even becoming the Champion makes them more of a mascot for Kirkwall, than holding any kind of office. Meredith was already running the city unofficially when Hawke arrived in Kirkwall and we see that she further consolidated power after the death of the Viscount. In Act 3, Bran and Aveline are the only two legitimate government officials left and it's made clear that Meredith was attempting to undermine Aveline to try to seize control of the guard, so the city would be under full Templar control. Hawke cannot act against her either, due to Meredith making veiled threats against either them (if a Mage), Bethany (if in the Circle) or Hawke's mage friends, so it's clear she's holding all the cards.
As for the entire situation with the Tome of Koslun, when all hell breaks loose and you're stuck in a melee a trois with Tevinter and Qunari forces, is it any surprise that maybe you might have more pressing matters to deal with (such as not dying) while the guy holding the book slips passed everyone, especially when Isabela bolts after them in all the confusion, further complicating matters?
Regardless of how badass someone is, some things are simply too complicated for them to take action against, as it'd either end in death, incarceration or suffering reprisals either against themselves, their family or their loved ones? One cannot live by murder-knife alone.
Petrice was alone in a shack with a single bodyguard, we've taken on tougher fights. She mader her intentions very clear, if she never left that shack alive many lives would be the better for it.
I don't really give a damn about the collateral damage of exposing the spies, when compared to the collateral damage of the war to follow and the even more devistating of an effect the Qunari will have with the intel from their spies
Hawke doesn't stop a single Templar in a shack again. Because the plot demands it and because he's a pathetic idiot
Hawke saved the lives of the majority of the cities nobles, has their favor, is esentially among their rank and it is clearly stated by Varric is the most powerful person in the city besides Meredith. But he just let her illegally assume as much power and authority as he could and did absolutely nothing to stop her, no words, nothing. For 3 freaking years. then the most he is willing to offer is a few words 3 years down the line.
Considering none of those Tevinter and Qunari were attaking you initially, and didn't even notice you were there then no, he didn't have better things to do.
I think she's pretty badass. She's the protagonist I can most closely relate to simply because she's just a city girl trying to survive, look out for her fam, and just living her life while befriending imperfect but interesting people. Without being a member of some fancy law enforcement order, she rose to extraordinary circumstances and accomplished amazing things while saving lives and dispensing justice here and there, which is more than what your average citizen can say. It's easy to see yourself accomplish amazing things if you're a member of the Grey Wardens, the Inquisition, or this and that, because everything is within your boundaries, you are paying your dues more or less. What makes Hawke badass to me is the way she's constantly thrown out of her boundaries and she manages to survive and make a difference.
I think she's pretty badass. She's the protagonist I can most closely relate to simply because she's just a city girl trying to survive, look out for her fam, and just living her life while befriending imperfect but interesting people. Without being a member of some fancy law enforcement order, she rose to extraordinary circumstances and accomplished amazing things while saving lives and dispensing justice here and there, which is more than what your average citizen can say. It's easy to see yourself accomplish amazing things if you're a member of the Grey Wardens, the Inquisition, or this and that, because everything is within your boundaries, you are paying your dues more or less. What makes Hawke badass to me is the way she's constantly thrown out of her boundaries and she manages to survive and make a difference.
You know in Flemeth's speech she said that many try to deny their destiny other to run away from it and the greatest are the ones who embrace it. I think Hawke was destined to have a tragic life but he/she tried to fight against it unsuccesful of course but you must admire her/his persistence.
Nope. The most lame and pathetic? definitely yes.
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